LA commuter train wreck

[cirquelover]

This looks absolutely horrible: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26680908


I hope everyone here is safe.

[Disneyphile]

I just saw a repeat of the 11 o'clock news. OMG. :(

It's just so tragic... people going home from work for the weekend. And it appears like it could have been avoided. It should have been. It's communication gone horribly wrong. I hope it was just equipment malfunction and not human error, because if someone didn't do their job...... ugh.

[CoasterMatt]

The accident was very close to our home - there were so many helicopters overhead, it sounded like a Vietnam War movie.

There was a lot of stupid speculation passed off as news by the pathetic excuse for a news team known as KABC 7.

But the thing I must raise a glass to - we've got THE BEST emergency response teams anywhere - there was a great deal of interagency communication and cooperation, and this horrible situation was handled spectacularly.

[Snowflake]

I'm glad you're okay CM & MMG, when I saw Chatsworth, I was worried.

Also glad to know Euro was not on the train, either!

[Gn2Dlnd]

So, Metrolink is saying their driver (who did not survive the crash) failed to stop for a red signal.

Current death toll at 24.

[Kevy Baby]

So, Metrolink is saying their driver (who did not survive the crash) failed to stop for a red signal.Something tells me that Denise Tyrell will have a different job next week for coming out with this info so soon.

And if anybody cares, here is a satellite view of where the accident was (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=chatsworth,+ca&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=34.271745,-118.600754&spn=0.001656,0.002012&z=19). The grass area on the right is the triage area you see in news footage and I believe the point of impact is right around the middle of this screen. Most of the ground shots are coming from the upper right of the screen and the early shots were taken from Topanga Canyon Blvd about where it goes over the tracks (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=chatsworth,+ca&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=34.271359,-118.601704&spn=0.006623,0.008047&z=17).

[~MS~]

Actually she did a smart thing stepping up and releasing that information before it got leaked. Hubby worked for Union Pacific for 30 years, the number of people who know what went wrong within hours is enough to have the potential for leaks and even more speculation. Signals are activated by the trains making the connection on that specific part of the track. computers let dispatch know where every train on the track is and tells the trains who has to pull over and wait for an oncoming train. One of the first things that happened in the discovery process was they had signal maintainers out there checking all the signals to make sure they were in proper operational status matching what the computer registered. The fact that it was human error was apparent in short order. My heart goes out to all the victims but I find it ironic that not one mention of the lost of the freight crew has been made in any report I've read, 3 crew were aboard that engine and I'm 99.9 percent sure all 3 perished.

[Stan4dSteph]

There was a mention today in the LA Times that the most recent victim removed was possibly the engineer of the UP freight train. The article said that UP had not made a statement, and that it was difficult going trying to cut through the wreckage to reach the areas where there might still be survivors. Perhaps they haven't said anything because they haven't recovered the UP crew yet, and there is a very slim possibility that they are alive. Just a thought.

It's too bad the rail system in this country is so underdeveloped. Freight and passenger trains having to share the same rails is what causes huge Amtrak delays on the lines out this way.

[~MS~]

I believe in Miracles but even I don't hold out hope that any of the UP crew survived...I've been up in the cab of an engine and taking that into account as I looked at the damage, while anything can happen if I knew my spouse was on that train I would presume the worst case scenario.

[CoasterMatt]

Ironically, the NIMBYs in the area are now screaming that they didn't like the "multiple tracks" - because they'd mean more accidents -

No, not allowing rail systems to be built with seperate tracks instead of mixed use rail with sidings allows more chance for accidents.

[Kevy Baby]

My heart goes out to all the victims but I find it ironic that not one mention of the lost of the freight crew has been made in any report I've read, 3 crew were aboard that engine and I'm 99.9 percent sure all 3 perished.If it makes you feel any better, there have been many mentions on the reports I was listening to early (radio - KNX 1070). Although they mentioned that it was only two on the freight train (not uncommon to have incorrect details early on).

One small thing I DID have an issue with last night was the special honor procession for the LAPD officer when they brought out her body (if you didn't see it, a couple of hundred LAPD and LASD officers lined the route when they carried the body from the train wreckage to the triage area). The reason is pissed me off is (since she wasn't killed in the line of duty - she was just another commuter on her way home) was that they brought in off-duty officers to help create the honor line. If someone that belonged to just about any other group been killed, they would not have been allowed to bring in lines of people to provide an honor guard for their fallen friend.

If for example, one of the dead was an employee of Edison, would a couple of hundred Edison employees have been allowed to create the same honor processional.

Again, not a big beef: just something I noticed.

[Kevy Baby]

Ironically, the NIMBYs in the area are now screaming that they didn't like the "multiple tracks" - because they'd mean more accidents -

No, not allowing rail systems to be built with separate tracks instead of mixed use rail with sidings allows more chance for accidents.I know that there are separate tracks down where the Chatsworth Metrolink Station is (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=chatsworth&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ll=34.253731,-118.5994&spn=0.001656,0.002012&t=h&z=19) and that the two tracks don't merge into one until just before the curve (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=chatsworth&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ll=34.26818,-118.59937&spn=0.001656,0.002012&t=h&z=19). (which is new, because when I lived in Chatsworth, they merged about 50' North of Devonshire). I will concede that is is not practical to have two tracks much further north of the accident as there is a long tunnel going through the Santa Susana Mountains into Slimi Valley.

[~MS~]

I can appreciate your position even if I disagree, public service personnel tend to have a 'one of our own' mentality and I would hazard a guess that of those off duty officers not one was ordered to the site but in fact drove there of their own choice. Another poster on another site was furious that the rescue operations had halted momentarily while they extracted the officers remains and lowered her to the ground. By the time they brought her out it had gone from a rescue to a recovery operation and the presence of those officers gave the entire rescue team a moment to allow themselves to grieve at the horror they'd been dealing with all afternoon. It 'cost' the county/city nothing and it let those men and women have a moment before digging back into the carnage.

[Kevy Baby]

I can appreciate your position even if I disagree, public service personnel tend to have a 'one of our own' mentality and I would hazard a guess that of those off duty officers not one was ordered to the site but in fact drove there of their own choice.I'll start by reiterating that this isn't a big deal to me; just something I noticed.

But, for example, we here at LoT are a very tight group as well. Had 'one of our own' been in that wreck and we had all driven to the crash site of our own volition, would we been allowed to have made a similar processional?

[~MS~]

I think we both know that the probability would be unlikely. I won't go so far as to say no way because I have no idea if any other group were notified that they lost one of their own and denied the opportunity. If she had been in street clothes I doubt they would have been able to identfy her as an off duty officer but I'm sure that one of the rescue workers found her, made a positive ID and contacted one of the Captains on site that they had a downed officer. Considering that everyone is listening to the radio transmissions the news traveled allowing the group to gather. Even so she wasn't afforded much special treatment considering they still left her on the train while they worked diligently to try and find any survivors so I'm OK with allowing the honor guard to assemble.

[Bootstrap Bill]

Ironically, the NIMBYs in the area are now screaming that they didn't like the "multiple tracks" - because they'd mean more accidents -

No, not allowing rail systems to be built with seperate tracks instead of mixed use rail with sidings allows more chance for accidents.

I'd like to see Metrolink replaced with a totally grade separated rail line, either elevated or burried, I don't care which.

[CoasterMatt]

I'd like to see Metrolink replaced with a totally grade separated rail line, either elevated or burried, I don't care which.

So would I.

[~MS~]

That would be a great way to reduce the risks but the cost is so outrageous that it's really unlikely to ever become a reality. Even if it were on it's on track human error leads to catastrophe....this accident was human error, had the engineer followed procedure then the two trains would have passed safely. I won't speculate on the story that has come out about how he was texting with some teen...it could have been exhaustion, hell he could have had a heart attack in which case it wasn't human error but just a tragedy. Separate tracks would reduce the risk but not eliminate it.

[alphabassettgrrl]

The other crew member denied the engineer was texting.

The system appears to have worked. Train did not stop at red light, warning flashed at the remote site that tracks these things, person called the train to say stop, but was too late.

Bad bad scene. I hope it doesn't scare people away from public transit, though.

[~MS~]

Actually what was said was that they doubted he was texting since it's against the rules of the company. Having said that how many people break the rules by being online doing personal stuff while at work, cell phones were against the rules when my husband was working maintenance of way and all the guys had them, carried them with them and on breaks they would make calls, to include the supervisors. I will be surprised if the engineer texting is a factor in the crash but it's not impossible. At this point the only thing that is 'certain' is that the metrolink train was in the wrong. Why and how it got there is open to speculation from human error to mechanical/computer system glitch. If texting is involved it's very easy to investigate if in fact there were outgoing text messages from his phone at the time immediately prior to the crash.

[madmonkeygirl]

I really hope texting was not involved in the factor. I really do for all those lives lost at the hands of that conductor. Yes many people do break the rules when it comes to cell phones, internet, texting etc while at work but in this case when someone is in charge of driving a Metrolink train or any public transportation including aeroplanes and have peoples lives in their hands texting should be the last thing they are doing while working.

[Tenigma]

From the Orange County Register (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/train-metrolink-engineer-2157127-angeles-one):
"Nick Williams, a teenage train enthusiast, told CBS2 in Los Angeles he exchanged three text messages with engineer Robert Sanchez Friday afternoon. Williams, who considered Sanchez a “mentor,” received the last text at 4:22 p.m., one minute before the train wreck, according to the ocregister.com report. Williams' claims have not been confirmed.

Sanchez, who was killed in the crash, said in his final text he would be meeting up with another passenger train later that day.

“I just replied back, 'good deal,' and I just said, 'That's cool,' and I never got a response back," Williams reportedly told CBS2."

[CoasterMatt]

According to news reports, the 3 person crew of the freight train survived.

[Stan4dSteph]

According to news reports, the 3 person crew of the freight train survived.That's great news. Where was it reported? I didn't see any mention in the few articles I skimmed this morning, but there are a lot of them.

[~MS~]

That is incredible good news if it's true but can you share a link because I had heard that they had counted the conductor of the freight among the dead and then another report mentioned finding the engineer.

I know that one of the news reports talked about them interviewing the crews but I believe that includes the dispatchers involved.


Edited to add, I see that whoever suggested that the spokeswoman for Metro was right, she resigned. The report I read doesn't say if it was a voluntary or forced resignation but I'm sure that the suggestion that she was premature in her assesment came into play even tho she was proven to be correct in that it was in fact the Metro that was in the wrong.

[Kevy Baby]

The other crew member denied the engineer was texting.I'll begin by saying that I haven't kept up on the news on this story this weekend other than the tidbits I catch on news radio while making some brief trips. But if the "other crew member" was in the locomotive with the engineer, I doubt he or she is still alive and if so, I doubt he or she is in a lucid state at this point. Purely speculative opinion on my part of course.

Something tells me that Denise Tyrell will have a different job next week for coming out with this info so soon.Sadly, my prediction was correct. From a "corporate spokesperson" perspective, she was too soon in making the statement, even if it was correct.

[madmonkeygirl]

Been watching the local news this morning and they said again that the crew of the freight train survived. All 3 of them. I haven't seen a link oh yeah duh MSN homepage i clicked on the story and it's in there i think. Good news at least. But they're still saying they are investigating the signal but the track was switch track was bent like a banana and it shouldn't have if they had taken the precaution and stopped at the final light rather than jump it. Just sad to know Metrolink was at fault in this accident. Those people who lost their lives won't get them back. Their families won't get them back. In the end all that matters is lives were lost at human hands.

[alphabassettgrrl]

That's great that the freight crew survived.

Off to go check this morning's coverage.

[Kevy Baby]

Edited to add, I see that whoever suggested that the spokeswoman for Metro was right, she resigned. The report I read doesn't say if it was a voluntary or forced resignation but I'm sure that the suggestion that she was premature in her assesment came into play even tho she was proven to be correct in that it was in fact the Metro that was in the wrong.From this LA Times Article (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-traincrash16-2008sep16,0,5233752.story?page=1):

The assurances came on the same day that Metrolink spokeswoman Denise Tyrrell resigned after Metrolink board members told The Times that she spoke prematurely in saying Friday's crash that killed 25 people was caused by an engineer's mistake.

Tyrrell said she had spoken with Metrolink's chief executive and was authorized to release the basic facts of the investigation before announcing Saturday that the Metrolink driver ran a red light on the rail line shared by Union Pacific freighters.

She said today that she was upset by the statement that Metrolink board Chairman Ron Roberts made to The Times on Sunday -- that her statement Saturday was premature--and that he made to the Wall Street Journal that she was not authorized to make a statement blaming the engineer.

"I felt the damage to my reputation is so great, I could not work for these people anymore," she said. "If I am not mistaken, the engineer blew through a light. The media got on top of this story, apparently so unaccustomed to a public agency telling the truth, they started to spin it that we were trying to throw all the blame on the engineer.

"Metrolink is responsible for the engineer, they are responsible for overseeing the contractor. Talking about the human error aspect of this is not a way to shift blame from Metrolink. Metrolink is still the responsible party to oversee the contract with the engineer and the conductors."

She said Metrolink's chief executive, David Solow, gave her the authority to make statements to the media Saturday about the cause of the crash.

"He told me to go ahead. . . . I felt that when my reputation was called into question in the national media by Ron Roberts that there was no going back as far as I was concerned," she said. "I believe that David Solow's decision to allow us to go public without waiting for the NTSB to point the finger was a brave and honorable thing to do. We have a basic difference here that can't be resolved. I see no way I can represent them and maintain my own standards. They are free to conduct their own business as they see fit."Assuming this is true, I applaud her for standing up for herself!

[~MS~]

I'd say that it rings true to me....and kudos to her for having the courage and strength to stand up for her own ethics.

[Morrigoon]

Good for her. Though that won't help her get her next job, sadly.

So where did the wreck happen in relation to "the curve"? I just confirmed on google maps that the curve is the one that passes below the old site of a summer day camp I used to go to (and Cherny, for that matter)

[Stan4dSteph]

So where did the wreck happen in relation to "the curve"? I just confirmed on google maps that the curve is the one that passes below the old site of a summer day camp I used to go to (and Cherny, for that matter)Here's a graphic from the LA Times that shows it (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-091308-me-traincrash-g,0,5283188.graphic).

[Morrigoon]

Holy cow, I used to play tag right there!

[Kevy Baby]

I used to do all sorts of things in that area.

[Morrigoon]

Probably WHILE I was playing tag. Ewwww....

[alphabassettgrrl]

I definitely applaud Tyrell for her resignation if that's true. "Here is what you can tell them". She tells media. "Oh, wait, you weren't supposed to say that".

Thanks.

[Kevy Baby]

Probably WHILE I was playing tag. Ewwww....I probably stopped my shenanigans in that area around 1978/1979, if that makes you feel any better.

[Morrigoon]

*phew!*

[cirquelover]

It looks like there has been another Metro wreck, at least they are saying no one died. Thank goodness the bus was empty or I think it would have been worse!
Here's a link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26789695

[€uroMeinke]

And that's why I'm working from home today...

[Snowflake]

And that's why I'm working from home today...

The best thing in the world to work from home, in your PJs (or not).

Glad you're okay!

[Not Afraid]

Imagine my sleepy surprise when Chris returned home this morning. Let the weekend start early!

[Morrigoon]

So would I be correct in assuming the safest seat on the train would be backward-facing with nobody sitting across from you, somewhere in the middle of the train?

[CoasterMatt]

Metro Rail and Metrolink are two ENTIRELY different systems!!!

Wanna know what? There were a bunch of car crashes on the freeways today, too- we should all stop using the freeways cuz they're just not safe...

[Kevy Baby]

...we should all stop using the freeways cuz they're just not safe...I agree: everyone else should stop driving on the freeways. It would make my life a lot easier!

[Tenigma]

Engineer sent text 22 seconds before fatal train crash (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/01/train.crash.probe/index.html?eref=rss_topstories) (CNN.com):

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- A Metrolink engineer driving a commuter train sent a text message about 22 seconds before the train collided with a Union Pacific freight train last month, the National Transportation Safety Board said Wednesday.

The crash killed 25 people, including the engineer, Robert Sanchez, during Friday rush hour in Chatsworth, a northwest Los Angeles suburb.

The 46-year-old engineer sent a text message at 4:22:01 p.m. on September 12, the NTSB said, citing information on his cell phone activity that the safety board subpoenaed from his service provider.

The preliminary estimate of the time for the head-on collision is 4:22:23 p.m., NTSB said, citing Union Pacific train's onboard recorders.

Sanchez last received a text message at 4:21:03 p.m., NTSB said.

After the incident, California Public Utilities Commission banned train operators from texting on the job.

In pushing for the ban, Commission President Michael Peevey said cell phone use by engineers "may have been a factor" in train accidents this year in San Francisco and Sacramento, California.

He did not elaborate on details of those incidents. Thursday's order is temporary until the state commission decides whether to make it permanent.

Metrolink prohibits cell phone use by engineers on the job, but Peevey emphasized there is no federal or California regulation barring cell phone use by engineers while trains are moving.

The NTSB determined the brakes on the Metrolink train were not applied before the collision and that stop signals at the scene were working properly, said Kitty Higgins, an NTSB member assigned to the investigation.

Metrolink has said its train, carrying about 220 passengers, failed to stop for a red signal.

Twenty-four bodies were found at the scene after the head-on collision. A 25th victim, a man in his 50s, died at a hospital. More than 130 people were injured.

The agency said it also has been in contact with two teenagers who told a local television station they were exchanging text messages with the engineer just before the crash.

Higgins said investigators interviewed a Metrolink train conductor who had worked with Sanchez since April.

The conductor "had no issues of his time working with the engineer and on how the engineer operated the train," she said.

[~MS~]

I can't imagine how much harder that news makes it for the families of those lost that day...

[Disneyphile]

So sad. :(

All because of a stupid text message. :(

[~MS~]

Just watched the news and they said he had sent/recieved 54 text during his work hours, now I know a lot of folks are very skilled at texting, I'm not one of those people, it takes me 10 minutes to type out a text on my phone, I use yahoo whenever possible so I have access to my keyboard.

[Morrigoon]

some phones have keyboards