Bye Bye Banks and Wall Street [Archive] - Page 2

innerSpaceman

10-02-2008, 11:19 AM

Yep, the smelliest bill full of pork barrel earmarks that has EVER come down the pike. Bullsh!t that is nothing but pure BRIBERY to get the votes of individual House members. Tax breaks for bicycle paths. Tax breaks for Road Racing Facilities. Tax breaks for businesses owned by Samoan Americans. OM Fvcking G, it's insane.

By the way, and speaking of insanity, the mental health provision - though also designed to appease one specific House member - is the one that makes the most sense. It is NOT a mandate for insurance companies to cover mental health, but rather a mandate for those that already DO cover it to cover it equitably to their other medical coverage.

Too bad Obama also voted for this bill ... otherwise he could shove the earmarks and pork straight up McCain's patootie at the next debate.

This Bill Reeks.

:mad:

$150 billion dollars of extra tax breaks heaped on top of the $700 billion dollars already misdesigned in the same mold as the problem it portends to address ... i.e., pure trickle-down voodoo.

Morrigoon

10-02-2008, 12:04 PM

Found an interesting article on LiveScience relating to people's reactions to the bailout bill:
http://www.livescience.com/culture/081002-bailout-package.html

BDBopper

10-02-2008, 12:24 PM

So who's ready to rename this country the United Socialist States of America after this stupid bill passes and the next president is sworn in? It makes me sick!

I can't believe tha "the people who burned the Thanksgiving turkey are demanding that we now let them cook Christmas dinner" and we are letting them! :mad: (yes those are Huckabee's words in quotes, not mine)

JWBear

10-02-2008, 12:29 PM

Isn't amazing that the one issue these days that there is an overwhelming public bipartisan agreement against, is one our leaders seems determined to pass, no matter what.

Ghoulish Delight

10-02-2008, 01:45 PM

Too bad Obama also voted for this bill ... otherwise he could shove the earmarks and pork straight up McCain's patootie at the next debate.
I think he still can. It fits right in with the, "scalpel, not a hatchet," line. As well as the, "McCain is Bush redux," strategy. Bush's administration has been all about decreeing in absolutes only to be bitten when the real world of subtlety nuance rears its head. And here we are again, McCain claiming he can just come in and turn off the faucet while Obama, with is wisdom and experience, knows that real change is accomplished with care and not with reckless spouting of unrealistic absolutes destined to be broken.

Moonliner

10-02-2008, 01:54 PM

[B]So who's ready to rename this country the United Socialist States of America after this stupid bill passes and the next president is sworn in? It makes me sick!

Well it will save Obama some time in achieving his goal of making us a socialist state. We'll be half way there before he even makes it into office.

innerSpaceman

10-02-2008, 02:44 PM

Isn't amazing that the one issue these days that there is an overwhelming public bipartisan agreement against, is one our leaders seems determined to pass, no matter what.

I must spread some mojo around before ... blah, blah, blah.

Alex

10-02-2008, 02:49 PM

But conversely couldn't it be asked whether the fact that heavily poll driven people who would normally be scared of such universal public disapproval doing it anyway is a sign that maybe the mass gut reaction isn't the best one?

But mostly, I'm sure, they're just remembering how well it worked out for Herbert Hoover when he said "let the markets work it out" and that the guy who said "**** that nonsense" gets to be considered the hero first. I do think they are reacting too soon: the key to FDR's successful image despite not actually fixing the problem is that you have to let everything go in the tank first.

JWBear

10-02-2008, 03:08 PM

Ghoulish Delight

10-02-2008, 03:22 PM

John and Jane Public see the bailout as rewarding the people who got us in this mess, and they're not happy. There will be political fallout for passing this bill. Fortunately, it looks like it will be directed at both Republicans and Democrats equally.
That's what Alex was saying. It's unpopular, which normally means congress would avoid it like the plague. And yet they still were determined to find a way to vote for it. So for once they seem to be voting because they think something should be passed for its merits, not for political gain. At least that's one read.

BarTopDancer

10-02-2008, 03:24 PM

What's the latest bailout?

I heard that one of the mortgage caveats would be that if you receive assistance with you mortgage to keep your house, and you sell at a profit you have to pay back the assistance you received.

innerSpaceman

10-02-2008, 03:45 PM

But if you are an American Samoan bicyclist with such a mental health problem that you race againt cars at NASCAR tracks, you are home free with no income taxes forever!!

Disneyphile

10-02-2008, 04:43 PM

I heard that one of the mortgage caveats would be that if you receive assistance with you mortgage to keep your house, and you sell at a profit you have to pay back the assistance you received.I see that as totally fair. I'd support that bailout.

BarTopDancer

10-02-2008, 09:28 PM

I see that as totally fair. I'd support that bailout.

Ya. I think I suggested that earlier.

Alex

10-03-2008, 07:03 AM

Whoa, whiplash for Wachovia.

And, more selfishly, this throws a kink in my options. Here in the Bay Area if I lose my job, Wells provides the most likely in-industry lateral move, but I suspect that they'll now be pretty tight on hiring for at least a year while working out the merger kinks.

Isaac

10-03-2008, 07:12 AM

Apparently I now work for Wells Fargo. :rolleyes:

Citi was only planning to acquire the banking divisions of Wachovia.
Wells Fargo, however, wants the whole corp. !

It's gonna be a fun Friday!

Alex

10-03-2008, 07:16 AM

Well, if it makes you feel better the musuem in the lobby of the corporate headquarters building in San Francisco where I used to work (the building not the museum) isn't bad. Small, but not bad.

Also, the least ostentatious corporate headquarters for a national bank in the world.

Isaac

10-03-2008, 08:35 AM

The thing that irks me is not knowing for certain how this will work out.

Wachovia already signed contract w/ Citi, so I'm sure there'll be some kind of objection from them.

edit: I spoke too soon - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_bi_ge/wells_fargo_wachovia

Well, at least it's good to know that my company is quite popular these days. ;)

Alex

10-03-2008, 09:07 AM

Yeah, I know that part (the untertainty). With the WaMu-Chase deal, it happened, literally, in a couple hours. All the month of prep that generally go into beginning a merger didn't happen.

So we're all essentially stuck sitting on our hands to 30-60 days while that necessary process of reviews and evaluations happens.

BDBopper

10-03-2008, 10:59 AM

This whole mess makes me thankful I am not a politician in Congress. I'd be sweating like a pig and suffering from a lack of sleep.

Picture the financial situation like a dam. A piece of it has broken off due to years of apathy. Now there is water gushing through the hole. Unfortunately the people who should be rebuilding the dam don't have enough time to do it before they are replaced and a new team of people come in to handle the problem. The good news is there is a plug available (ie the bailout) to keep the dam from breaking. Unfortunately it is made from material that might cause the dam to break eventually. So do you use the plug or do you hope and pray that the dam doesn't break over the next two months during the transition?

If we are going to have to plug the hole we should demand solutions so the dam can be rebuilt as the first priority of the next Congress. Unfortunately I don't have too much faith in the upcoming administration.

One more analogy before I finish - We as citizens are desperately looking for a spoonful of sugar to make this medicine go down...but the sugar bowl is empty and there is none to be found. Ugh. :(

Ghoulish Delight

10-03-2008, 11:09 AM

Unfvcking believable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i0su1roQLI

"They can't help themselves"?!?!? Who are "they" John? That'd be YOU, John.

BarTopDancer

10-03-2008, 11:30 AM

What the fvck are children's wooden arrow's and why do their manufactures need subsidizing by the government?

Ghoulish Delight

10-03-2008, 11:36 AM

What the fvck are children's wooden arrow's and why do their manufactures need subsidizing by the government?They're arrows, made of wood, designed for use by children.

And it's not a subsidy, it's a repeal of an excise tax.

BarTopDancer

10-03-2008, 11:45 AM

They're arrows, made of wood, designed for use by children.

And it's not a subsidy, it's a repeal of an excise tax.

And said tax only effects wooden arrows made for children?

JWBear

10-03-2008, 11:49 AM

Hear that flushing sound? That's our country going down the toilet.

BDBopper

10-03-2008, 11:54 AM

Hear that flushing sound? That's our country going down the toilet.

Amen! My sentiments exactly!

Ghoulish Delight

10-03-2008, 11:55 AM

And said tax only effects wooden arrows made for children?
Yes.

Alex

10-03-2008, 11:56 AM

That little bit of "pork" is an update to this section of the Tax Code:

Sec. 48.4161(b)-1 Imposition and rates of tax; bows and arrows

(a) Imposition of tax. Section 4161(b) imposes a tax on the sale of the following articles by the manufacturer, producer, or importer thereof:
(1) Any bow that has a draw weight of 10 pounds or more;
(2) Any arrow that measures 18 inches overall or more in length;
(3) Any part or accessory (other than a fishing reel) suitable for inclusion in or attachment to a bow or arrow described in subparagraph (1) or (2) of this paragraph; and
(4) Any quiver suitable for use with arrows described in subparagraph (2) of this paragraph.
(b) Rate of tax. The tax is imposed on the sale of articles enumerated in section 4161(b) and paragraph (a) of this section at the rate of 11 percent of the price for which such articles are sold. For the definition of the term “price”, see section 4216 and the regulations thereunder.
(c) Liability for tax. (1) The tax imposed by section 4161(b) is payable by the manufacturer, producer, or importer making the sale. For determining who is the manufacturer, producer, or importer, see §48.0–2(a)(4).
So what happened is that there is a company in Oregon that makes toy arrows that are not intended for actual use with bows or as sporting equipment. But it was being charged the tax (something like $0.36 per arrow). The bill carves out an exemption for any arrows meeting certain physical requirements and not intended for use with a bow covered by this section.

Yes, pork in that it is intended as a bone to a specific politician. Hard to argue against the merit, though, since it is like saying candy cigarettes should have to pay tobacco taxes.

Isaac

10-03-2008, 12:09 PM

Found this online:

https://www.wellsfargo.com/downloads/pdf/press/WFC_WACHOVIA_100308.pdf (https://www.wellsfargo.com/downloads/pdf/press/WFC_WACHOVIA_100308.pdf)

BarTopDancer

10-03-2008, 12:14 PM

Yes, pork in that it is intended as a bone to a specific politician. Hard to argue against the merit, though, since it is like saying candy cigarettes should have to pay tobacco taxes.

I agree. Thanks for doing that research.

bewitched

10-03-2008, 05:23 PM

And said tax only effects wooden arrows made for children?

Yes.

Actually, it's a tax on all arrows. Children's wooden practice arrows were taxed like all other arrows at a rate of $.39 per. The wooden arrows themselves only cost $.30 to make. The tax was not intended to include the wooden arrows hence the original bill exempting wooden arrows. This addition to the legislation extended that exemption.

eta: Oops. Should've read further down since obviously Alex already answered this.

Ghoulish Delight

10-03-2008, 08:17 PM

Unfvcking believable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i0su1roQLI

"They can't help themselves"?!?!? Who are "they" John? That'd be YOU, John.
Not to belabor the point...oh wait, yes, to belabor the point.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=186776&title=clusterf#@k-to-the-poor-house

"This bill is going to put us on the brink of economic disaster." "I'm proud I suspended my campaign and made this bill happen." :eek: :eek: Geeeeebus.

Morrigoon

10-06-2008, 01:54 PM

Markets plunging AGAIN? WTF? (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches-100608.aspx?GT1=33002)

Ghoulish Delight

10-06-2008, 02:05 PM

Hardly surprising. Even with a theoretical perfectly handled bailout, the market's going to have to drop. It's been way over inflated.

CoasterMatt

10-06-2008, 02:21 PM

They had a 'live feed' of the stock market ticker on during the news today- superimposed over the rest of the news next to their logo.

It was horrific seeing the number go deeper and deeper, while the reporter was covering a 6 person murder/suicide in Porter Ranch - apparently because the family was having financial problems.

Morrigoon

10-06-2008, 02:22 PM

Yes, but now Europe's going down too. Which I suppose is also not surprising since many of the major shareholding operations operate in other world markets.

Snowflake

10-06-2008, 02:29 PM

Yes, but now Europe's going down too. Which I suppose is also not surprising since many of the major shareholding operations operate in other world markets.

Well, if the euro goes down then maybe I can finally afford a trip to Europe! Oh wait.. the dollar = 0

Isaac

10-06-2008, 04:38 PM

US Dollar has been gaining recently. It's now @ .74 c€nts ( € = $1.35 ).
Earlier it weakened against the Japanese ¥en.

Alex

10-06-2008, 06:03 PM

I'm all in favor (even if it for bad reasons) of a sudden strengthening of the dollar against the Euro. At least for the next 2 weeks.

Stan4dSteph

10-06-2008, 07:20 PM

I'm kind of bummed because I still have money in my French account. Looks like I'll be leaving it there for a little while longer.

Kevy Baby

10-09-2008, 01:04 PM

Weeeeee

Everybody enjoying their roller coaster ride?

The Lovely Mrs. tod

10-09-2008, 01:09 PM

I'm afraid to look at my small portfolio. I'm gonna end up owing them money. :eek:

scaeagles

10-09-2008, 01:31 PM

Roller coaster ride would imply that there are ascensions as well. Right now this is Magic Mountain Goliath on Steroids.

cirquelover

10-09-2008, 01:35 PM

I'm actually fairing the coaster ride very well, Gary's 401k has taken a huge dive though. I was scared to open my Schwab statement but it actualy looks really good surprisingly! It looks like I should be in charge of the family portfolios!!

Snowflake

10-09-2008, 02:03 PM

Yeech, I looked and it upset my stomach. I'm going back into avoidance mode (and pay strict attention at the 401(k) and retirement meeting next week.

Retirement? I will probably drop dead at my desk, filing just one more patent application, breathing my last as I click submit to the USPTO.

BarTopDancer

10-09-2008, 02:16 PM

I'm actually trying to figure out the ING ShareBuilder.

I don't understand the different transactions costs. But I figure with stock so low it's not a bad time to jump in with a little money. My friend spent $300 amongst Fannie, Freddie and Sallie at 80 cents a share.

Morrigoon

10-09-2008, 02:19 PM

My etrade account has been decimated more by etrade's fees than by the market. But I'm thinking I may pick up some southwest airlines shares while the market's tanking. Airline stocks are risky, as ever, but LUV runs a pretty good business. We'll see. I haven't put the buy order in yet.

Ghoulish Delight

10-09-2008, 02:24 PM

Once again, the sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

Betty

10-10-2008, 01:14 PM

I saw an article that referenced a second bail out package of $150b. WTF!!!

I also read that the bailout bill might be causing more problems because banks are holding out on resolving their debts waiting to see if they can get a better deal from the gubberment.

Disneyphile

10-11-2008, 03:28 AM

Ok, this whole economy thing has finally affected me. Mothers Cookies is shutting down, because it can no longer afford to stay in business.

I want my Circus Animals, dammit!!!

And the Striped Shortbread of my childhood.

BWAHHHHHHHH! My occasional overly sweet pink and white indulgence is just gone, gone, gone. Poof. :( (We need a round sad face so I can say "My cookie is sad.")

****ing economy. Now I'm pissed. Government needs to bail out the cookie companies!

innerSpaceman

10-11-2008, 06:03 AM

The LoT commune may be coming sooner than you think.

Seriously, i hope we all lend each other a hand. At best, this is going to be a two-year economic funk around the world. At worst .... ugh, we might have to live on that freighter and eat lots of seafood.

flippyshark

10-11-2008, 07:51 AM

We all live in a Yellow Submarine.

Isaac

10-11-2008, 08:16 AM

Barker Block anyone ?

BarTopDancer

10-11-2008, 09:12 AM

Ok, this whole economy thing has finally affected me. Mothers Cookies is shutting down, because it can no longer afford to stay in business.

I want my Circus Animals, dammit!!!

And the Striped Shortbread of my childhood.

BWAHHHHHHHH! My occasional overly sweet pink and white indulgence is just gone, gone, gone. Poof. :( (We need a round sad face so I can say "My cookie is sad.")

WHAT?! Damn, they just brought back flaky flix too. I'm glad I bought them when I did.

JWBear

10-11-2008, 09:33 AM

We're losing Flaky Flix again?!?! DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!

Morrigoon

10-11-2008, 01:49 PM

Oh dear, my mom'll be disappointed, she loves their Oatmeal cookies

BarTopDancer

10-11-2008, 03:40 PM

I can't find anything online about this happening in 2008. There was a buyout in 2006. Ralphs in Irvine at Sand Canyon has flaky flix, circus animals and oatmeal cookies.

JWBear

10-11-2008, 05:17 PM

I can't find anything online about this happening in 2008. There was a buyout in 2006. Ralphs in Irvine at Sand Canyon has flaky flix, circus animals and oatmeal cookies.

Here: (http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2008/10/10/mothers_cookie_company_closes_amid_bankruptcy/)

Lots more (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1255748576)

R.I.P. Mother's :(

BarTopDancer

10-11-2008, 05:19 PM

Here: (http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2008/10/10/mothers_cookie_company_closes_amid_bankruptcy/)

Lots more (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1255748576)

R.I.P. Mother's :(

Go stock up. :(

Ghoulish Delight

10-11-2008, 06:05 PM

I'm eating circus animals right now, and it's all I can do to not cry. My cheese is despondent. :(

This post brought to you by drunken nakedness. And absynth.

JWBear

10-11-2008, 10:39 PM

Maybe someone will by the company and keep it open....

I need to find a store that still has Flaky Flix......

BarTopDancer

10-11-2008, 10:46 PM

Ralphs and Albertsons off Sand Canyon in Irvine both had all cookies in stock today, but word has been spreading.

Check Target?

lindyhop

10-12-2008, 01:16 PM

Cookie hoarding? The price of cookies is going to go sky high.

Prudence

10-12-2008, 02:50 PM

I guess it doesn't matter then that I could never seem to find a store that carried checkerboard wafers. I have very sad cheese.

Ghoulish Delight

10-12-2008, 08:12 PM

Okay, something interesting in this world needs to happen because if I see one more "news" site pick up the "national debt clock runs out of digits" story I'm likely to vomit.

innerSpaceman

10-12-2008, 08:13 PM

Why?

That's legitimate news. A simple thing indicative of so much big stuff.

I think it's a great story that should be told until everyone in America knows it.

Then they can hopefully learn that, having now paid $2,300 each to bail out Wall Street, every single American household owes $480,000 in national debt. Get ready for taxation at 80%.

Ghoulish Delight

10-12-2008, 09:53 PM

It was mildly interesting 4 days ago. As the lead headline today on MSNBC? Sorry, time to hire some new writers.

Kevy Baby

10-13-2008, 07:33 PM

BOING

The Dow bounces back up 936 points today

Isaac

10-13-2008, 08:19 PM

Yeah but let's see if it can maintain that 936 points.

Somehow I doubt it.

Kevy Baby

10-13-2008, 08:25 PM

Yeah but let's see if it can maintain that 936 points.

Somehow I doubt it.It'll be pretty topsy turvy for a while, mostly rising a bit before the election, then dropping a bit after the election. After that, it will slowly rise again.

I personally believe we have, for the most part, seen the worst of it.

Isaac

10-13-2008, 08:33 PM

Ummmm.....working for an auto finance/ general banking company, I can't agree with you on that one.

Kevy Baby

10-13-2008, 08:52 PM

I didn't predict it was going to be good for everyone, just overall.

And my predictions are based on my own gut feeling: no empirical data was sullied in the making of this prediction. I could be way off base.

Isaac

10-13-2008, 09:01 PM

From what I've been told, there won't be a positive change in the economy til 2010

wendybeth

10-13-2008, 11:34 PM

Headline from the Washington Post:

U.S. Forces Nine Major Banks To Accept Partial Nationalization

Nice. So, how's that capitalism thingy supposed to work again? Yeah, things are really looking up here.

Morrigoon

10-14-2008, 09:06 AM

Well, our nation's early history includes attempts to create a national bank.

Kevy Baby

10-14-2008, 10:02 AM

JWBear

10-14-2008, 10:19 AM

The version we are using now, yes.

tracilicious

10-14-2008, 10:20 AM

The Daily Show had an interesting guest on last night. I forget her name, she wrote a book about the Great Depression (or as Jon says, the first Great Depression). She said she thinks it can still be avoided as long as taxes aren't raised. She also mentioned that the volatility of the stock market is a really bad sign. And she said Lyndon Johnson is the root cause of our current troubles.

wendybeth

10-14-2008, 12:17 PM

So are you saying that capitalism is a total failure?

I'm saying that if this had happened under a Dem admin, you cons would be screaming bloody murder. You will NEVER be able to convince me otherwise. Same goes for the Patriot Act and all the other weird turns our country has taken these last 8 years. If an administration under Obama had suggested we partially nationalize banks or engage in snooping on private citizens we'd hear nothing but comparisons to the old USSR, Venezuela and every other socialist model out there. Since it's happening under Bush's reign, it's just good business.

JWBear

10-14-2008, 12:31 PM

I'm saying that if this had happened under a Dem admin, you cons would be screaming bloody murder. You will NEVER be able to convince me otherwise. Same goes for the Patriot Act and all the other weird turns our country has taken these last 8 years. If an administration under Obama had suggested we partially nationalize banks or engage in snooping on private citizens we'd hear nothing but comparisons to the old USSR, Venezuela and every other socialist model out there. Since it's happening under Bush's reign, it's just good business.

AMEN! :snap: :snap: :snap:

Morrigoon

10-14-2008, 12:33 PM

It'll be pretty topsy turvy for a while, mostly rising a bit before the election, then dropping a bit after the election. After that, it will slowly rise again.

I keep meaning to address this. Typically, uncertainty causes turmoil in the markets, this includes uncertainty in elections. So the market will have issues leading up to the election, followed by a small rally after the election, regardless of who actually wins. And regardless of who actually wins, the media will think it reflects some sort of market confidence in the winner, when all it really reflects is that now they know who they'll be dealing with and can invest accordingly.

As to whether the rally will have any sticking power or not, I have no idea. I tend to think not because eventually the dismal Christmas retail #s will come in, and everyone will act surprised at how little we all spent this year. But this part is pure guess.

Kevy Baby

10-14-2008, 12:36 PM

Morrigoon

10-14-2008, 12:37 PM

wendybeth

10-14-2008, 12:37 PM

KB- no, I just believe what I wrote above. Cons are screaming about the possibility of mandatory insurance for children ("It's socialized medicine!") but they don't have a problem with this?

JWBear

10-14-2008, 12:48 PM

Real conservatives are screaming bloody murder. We're screaming it so loudly that we became Libertarians. That's why you don't hear "Republicans" objecting, we aren't R's any more.

Not all. There are those, like my family, that are so blindingly loyal to the Republican Party that they refuse to believe that anything proposed by their party could be a bad idea.

Morrigoon

10-14-2008, 12:55 PM

They are the people who helped hijack the party. I was Republican because I believed in smaller government, less gov't interference in our lives, and lower taxes. Doh.

Kevy Baby

10-14-2008, 01:01 PM

Not all. There are those, like my family, that are so blindingly loyal to the Republican Party that they refuse to believe that anything proposed by their party could be a bad idea.As opposed to ALL Democrats, who are always open to any and all thoughts and ideas and NEVER stick to their party regardless. That warm and fuzzy party is so open minded.
__________________

I am not trying to defend the Republican party. Nor am I trying to specifically blast Dems. To be honest, I am disillusioned with both parties. I believe that too many in each party are so hung up on the "we're right and they're wrong" mentality that NO ONE is looking out for the best interest of the whole. It is easier to say "the other guy/party/etc. is a total f-up and we would have done better."

If anyone believes that all of our current financial woes are solely the fault of GW Bush, then they really don't follow the big picture. Yes, he is to blame on some level, but how much? Who knows (and no - you don't). EVERYONE is to blame. We AS A COUNTRY are to blame. Republicans are to blame and Democrats are to blame.

Regardless of who is elected and inaugerated, we have a LONG way to go to recover. I don't believe our economic recovery is going to be any better or any worse (on the grand scale) depending on who gets elected. In fact, I don't think the recovery would be much different if GW Bush were in the White House for another four years.

But that's just my opinion.

JWBear

10-14-2008, 01:31 PM

As opposed to ALL Democrats, who are always open to any and all thoughts and ideas and NEVER stick to their party regardless. That warm and fuzzy party is so open minded.
__________________

I am not trying to defend the Republican party. Nor am I trying to specifically blast Dems. To be honest, I am disillusioned with both parties. I believe that too many in each party are so hung up on the "we're right and they're wrong" mentality that NO ONE is looking out for the best interest of the whole. It is easier to say "the other guy/party/etc. is a total f-up and we would have done better."

If anyone believes that all of our current financial woes are solely the fault of GW Bush, then they really don't follow the big picture. Yes, he is to blame on some level, but how much? Who knows (and no - you don't). EVERYONE is to blame. We AS A COUNTRY are to blame. Republicans are to blame and Democrats are to blame.

Regardless of who is elected and inaugerated, we have a LONG way to go to recover. I don't believe our economic recovery is going to be any better or any worse (on the grand scale) depending on who gets elected. In fact, I don't think the recovery would be much different if GW Bush were in the White House for another four years.

But that's just my opinion.

Where in my post did I say that the same can't be said for some Democrats? I was responding to Cindy's post regarding all "true conservatives" leaving the party.

I agree that no one party is to blame for the economic mess. But I do think Obama is more likely than McCain to get us out of it. YMMV.

Disneyphile

10-14-2008, 01:59 PM

Morrigoon

10-14-2008, 02:08 PM

I have my doubts as to our ability to exit at this point, but it's a worthy goal.

Kevy Baby

10-14-2008, 03:42 PM

I think getting out of this stupid war will save us billions. So, whoever will get us out of that is going to make a massive impact. Therefore, it's a damn good thing that Bush isn't in office for another four years to continue his war game at everyone's expense.

I have my doubts as to our ability to exit at this point, but it's a worthy goal.We can (and will) exit. We can't do it quickly as this will create a vacuum which will create greater threats on US security.

Ghoulish Delight

10-15-2008, 09:35 AM

Finally got around to listening to the episode of This American Life about the freeze and the bailout. While obviously an oversimplified view, it once again does an excellent job of giving an overview of the mechanisms involved. Their conclusion was that while nothing is ideal, the current method being used (the treasury getting actual stock in banks in return for bailout money instead of buying worthless debt at made up prices from them) has a much higher chance at success in terms of restoring market confidence and liquidity with relatively little risk to the treasury.

It also detailed how exactly things turned from investing to gambling, and how regulation might have had a chance at preventing this (the key thing being the lack of regulation on "credit default swaps", which I won't attempt to explain myself). And while regulating the CDS market doesn't guarantee that investors wouldn't have found some other way to do that kind of gambling, it would have been better than letting it run free. As someone on the show put it, just because there's still the risk someone might break your window, you still start by closing and locking your back door.

MouseWife

10-17-2008, 10:08 AM

Not all. There are those, like my family, that are so blindingly loyal to the Republican Party that they refuse to believe that anything proposed by their party could be a bad idea.

I have the same type of family, it would seem. All of this, yes, both sides can play dirty, but, the ugliness I am seeing from my R side of the family. The emails against Obama and for Prop 8 sicken me. I am thisclose to telling my f-i-l to shove it but I didn't want to upset my husband. When I told him that I found the emails vile he said to go ahead and tell him what I felt. I am waiting for a fresh email. I know it will come.

My own family, yes, their views are not based on real issues. They want that nice old white man in office. You can not argue with them. My sis has the Prop 8 sign in their front yard. She is fasting. Things told to her to do by her church.

So, yeah, I do see a difference in Rs and Ds. But not always clear cut.

All I know. After this is all said and done, I will look at those people very differently. This ugliness is creating a wide river between us. I will not want to break bread with people who hate.

{:blush: sorry if this post is outta left field, I came in here and jumped in without reading back....I was looking for cookies, actually}

Kevy Baby

10-17-2008, 10:18 AM

{:blush: sorry if this post is outta left field, I came in here and jumped in without reading back....I was looking for cookies, actually}The conversation started with DP's post (I believe) and then JWB posted links.Ok, this whole economy thing has finally affected me. Mothers Cookies is shutting down, because it can no longer afford to stay in business.

I want my Circus Animals, dammit!!!

And the Striped Shortbread of my childhood.

BWAHHHHHHHH! My occasional overly sweet pink and white indulgence is just gone, gone, gone. Poof. :( (We need a round sad face so I can say "My cookie is sad.")

****ing economy. Now I'm pissed. Government needs to bail out the cookie companies!

Here: (http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2008/10/10/mothers_cookie_company_closes_amid_bankruptcy/)

Lots more (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1255748576)

R.I.P. Mother's :(

BarTopDancer

10-17-2008, 10:29 AM

Cookies.. Get your cookies! (http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=circus+animal+cookies&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=mother%27s+cookies&_osacat=0)

lizziebith

10-17-2008, 10:42 AM

All of my local markets still have a good supply. I bought 2 bags yesterday! I'm going to keep one (in the freezer?), and open the other...

Andrew

10-17-2008, 11:04 AM

Kevy Baby

10-17-2008, 11:26 AM

Are the Circus Animals so laden with preservatives and other crap that one doesn't need to worry about freezing them?

Andrew

10-17-2008, 11:29 AM

Are the Circus Animals so laden with preservatives and other crap that one doesn't need to worry about freezing them?
They do have expiration dates. Then again, so do Twinkies.

Kevy Baby

10-17-2008, 11:31 AM

"Best if consumed before: Nuclear Annihilation"

JWBear

10-19-2008, 04:34 PM

I just scored four packages of Flaky Flix at the Lakewood Albertson's! :snap:

The Lovely Mrs. tod

10-21-2008, 10:00 AM

I found four bags of Circus Animals at the Mountain View Target (at 2/$5) and, after receiving assurances that they had more in the back, bought them all. Considering freezing two. Still no Iced Oatmeal.
I can't find any Iced Oatmeal in the San Fernando Valley either. If my mother wasn't already dead this would have killed her.

Betty

10-21-2008, 10:23 AM

No pink and white circus animals. So very sad. And just one very overpriced box of iced lemons.

Andrew

10-21-2008, 10:35 AM

I can't find any Iced Oatmeal in the San Fernando Valley either. If my mother wasn't already dead this would have killed her.
Someone found Iced Oatmeal for me and is holding bags for when we come back to SoCal next month.

I'm sad about this. Wonder how hard it would be to figure out the Iced Oatmeal recipe? Oatmeal cookies with a vanilla icing drizzle?

Morrigoon

10-21-2008, 10:38 AM

No pink and white circus animals. So very sad. And just one very overpriced box of iced lemons.
There might be Halloween-themed ones in the store's Halloween section

Snowflake

10-21-2008, 10:44 AM

I've looked in vain for the Circus Animals. :(

Overpriced on ebay (http://desc.shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=circus+animals+and+mother%27s+cookies&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=1&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=circus+animals+and+mother%27s+cookies&_osacat=0), unless you are very desperate

Disneyphile

10-21-2008, 11:06 AM

I'm sad about this. Wonder how hard it would be to figure out the Iced Oatmeal recipe? Oatmeal cookies with a vanilla icing drizzle?That would be cool if they released a recipe book to help recover some of their bankruptcy a bit. Kinda like a last hurrah.

BarTopDancer

10-21-2008, 11:27 AM

Someone found Iced Oatmeal for me and is holding bags for when we come back to SoCal next month.

I'm sad about this. Wonder how hard it would be to figure out the Iced Oatmeal recipe? Oatmeal cookies with a vanilla icing drizzle?

Those would probably be amazing. I love their iced oatmeal cookies, but I prefer my oatmeal cookies to be soft.

Soft oatmeal cookies with vanilla drizzle. Yummy.

Stan4dSteph

10-21-2008, 12:23 PM

If you don't mind them saying "Archway" instead of Mother's, there seems have been no rush on the cookies in this part of America. You know, the "fake America."

JWBear

10-21-2008, 12:38 PM

There are about 6 (snack sized) packs of the animal cookies on our office vending machine. Anyone want them? I'd be willing to buy them for you.

Morrigoon

10-31-2008, 09:25 AM

Dude, these people are so busted when Jesus gets back!

From BoingBoing: Wonkette: Jesus people pray that false idol will save God’s economy (http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/30/wonkette-jesus-peopl.html)

Niiiiiiiice. Just pray to the golden calf there, kids! Dude, did they totally miss the irony there or what?

Ghoulish Delight

10-31-2008, 09:28 AM

Dude, these people are so busted when Jesus gets back!

From BoingBoing: Wonkette: Jesus people pray that false idol will save God’s economy (http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/30/wonkette-jesus-peopl.html)

Niiiiiiiice. Just pray to the golden calf there, kids!
Been there posted that (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=249977#post249977)

Morrigoon

10-31-2008, 09:37 AM

doh! Forgive me I'm on like 3 hours of sleep today.

Nice LOLsacrilege though

JWBear

11-12-2008, 09:43 PM

My 84 year old mother sent me this today:

Doctors' Opinion of Financial Bail Out Package

The Allergists voted to scratch it, and the Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves.
The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve, and the Obstetricians felt they were all laboring under a misconception.
The Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted; the Pathologists yelled, 'Over my dead body!' while the Pediatricians said, 'Oh, Grow up!'
The Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, the Radiologists could see right through it, and the Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing.
The Internists thought it was a bitter pill to swallow, and the Plastic Surgeons said, 'This puts a whole new face on the matter.'
The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists felt the scheme wouldn't hold water.
The Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and the Cardiologists didn't have the heart to say no.
In the end, the Proctologists left the decision up to some assholes in Washington.

Gemini Cricket

11-12-2008, 09:50 PM

Ghoulish Delight

11-12-2008, 10:33 PM

We'll see what they do instead, but I'm glad they've canned the idea of buying bad loans with my money.

Alex

11-12-2008, 11:01 PM

My friend Julie tried to deposit a WaMu check from her own account into her Wells Fargo account across the street. WF put the cashier's check on hold for 7 business days. (!!!) Why? "Because it's a WaMu check. We need to be sure the funds are there."
Ugh.

If that is what they said, they were full of it.

There is no such thing as a WaMu check any more and nobody has doubts about the capitalization of JPMC.

I can tell you from personal experience (not because I've done it myself but because I have been involved in training tellers on holds policies) that a great portion of the time when tellers give a concrete reason for a hold being placed on a deposit it is just something made up to get the customer to go away without getting too angry. Most of the time the tellers have no solid idea why a hold is placed.

Kevy Baby

11-14-2008, 11:39 AM

I wasn't too worried about all of the financial issues facing our country. But now it has become a real thing for me:

Lamborghini O.C., largest dealer of exotic cars, closes

The heart wrenching story (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/lamborghini-orange-county-2218874-keuylian-cars).

Maybe we could have a bake sale or something to help the less fortunate.

madmonkeygirl

11-14-2008, 11:43 AM

I went to WaMu yesterday to make a deposit. The teller tells me i'm prequalified to get a credit card. I said no thank you for today but will keep it in mind. I swear no more plastic. But if it is that easy for banks to lend out the plastic for ppl to keep getting into debt with no wonder the problems occur like they have been. Sorry but i won't abuse plastic ever again (lesson learned). If i can't afford it i don't get to buy it. Would be nice to have what i really want but in the end does it make me happy? When the bill comes to have to pay it off. I don't think so.

GC that is total umm B**lS**t what the teller told her but whatever.

Gemini Cricket

11-14-2008, 12:11 PM

Yeah, total BS. My advice to her was to call the branch where she opened her Wells Fargo account and ask them to remove the hold. I have done this numerous times and they have always done it for me. But my advice was too late as the check was deposited and cleared before she told me about it.

When I was a teller in HI, I never put checks on hold. I was against it. The system of holding checks was totally up in the air at that time (1999-2000 or so). So a teller could put holds on checks at their discretion. I figured if the check isn't good, the bank makes money from the fee for bouncing the check.

Alex

11-14-2008, 12:41 PM

Generally, the issue of placing deposit holds is no longer in the hands of the tellers. There are broad general rules and then there are also back end tools that use complex risk evaluations to determine if there needs to be a hold. That's why tellers frequently couldn't say why a hold has been placed if it is outside those broad categories. It could be (just as an example) that the risk analysis software has noticed a pattern of fraudulent cashier checks in your town deposited to accounts newer than 90 days.

The amount of check fraud out there is amazing and the tools we love for making banking easier just make that easier as well. But deposit holds are among the biggest customer complaints and I can assure you the customer facing bankers behind them generally don't like them much better than the customers.

Kevy Baby

11-21-2008, 07:33 PM

With Berkshire Hathaway stock going up $12,500.00 per share today to close at $90,000.00, Warren Buffet made $4,375,000,000.00 (four point three seven five BILLION dollars) today.

I'm not sure how much sting it takes off the $25,952,500,000.00 (almost 26 BILLION dollars) that he had lost since December of 2007 (when the stock peeked at $151,650.00).

I don't know why, but it amuses me to follow BRK.A stock.

Alex

11-27-2008, 09:53 AM

Since some here know about it, I figured I'd mention my fate in the "bye bye banks" environment.

The official announcements to all WaMu employees were made earlier this week (as you probably saw from news stories).

Everybody was in one of three groups:

1. Good bye! This group was given 60 days notice of termination and many were told this essentially meant they could stop coming to work immediately. Standard severance package paid at end of 60 days.

2. Transitional, or Good bye soon! This group is viewed as important to migrating WaMu functions to Chase. Most were given a termination date of June 30. Pretty good incentive package paid out at end if you don't leave, plus standard severance.

3. Hello, or We Love You Long Time! This group was told that they have a continuing position with JP Morgan Chase.

I'm not entirely sure why, but I am somehow in that third bucket. Within my immediate group of 30 or so people I was one of two. I don't know if this is good because they don't seem to have decided yet what exactly my job will be going forward so I don't know if, long term, I'll even want it. But at least it is stability and I'll have a job to hold while looking for work if I don't like it.

innerSpaceman

11-27-2008, 10:08 AM

Well, want it or not, I'm very pleased they love you long time. Happy Thanksgiving, Alex.

Andrew

11-27-2008, 12:35 PM

I'm not entirely sure why, but I am somehow in that third bucket. [...]
But at least it is stability and I'll have a job to hold while looking for work if I don't like it.

Well, want it or not, I'm very pleased they love you long time. Happy Thanksgiving, Alex.

What iSm said.

Cadaverous Pallor

11-27-2008, 11:10 PM

That's good news, Alex, congrats.

Morrigoon

12-01-2008, 05:49 PM

Just heard on ABC: the recession is finally official. And it's existed since last December (duh).

wendybeth

12-01-2008, 07:22 PM

Well, the rich are finally feeling the pinch, Morri. That signifies the start of any sort of economic difficulty. I literally lol'd when I read that earlier today. Like you said: duh.

JWBear

12-12-2008, 10:57 AM

My agency will be laying-off 210 employees in January. This is not good.

Kevy Baby

12-12-2008, 03:52 PM

My agency will be laying-off 210 employees in January. This is not good.I thought you worked for the county gov'ment?

katiesue

12-12-2008, 04:06 PM

I quite narrowly missed the chopping block on Wednesday.

Snowflake

12-12-2008, 04:10 PM

I quite narrowly missed the chopping block on Wednesday.
Thank goodness!

Alex

12-12-2008, 04:12 PM

I think I've pieced together why I was kept. It is beyond ridiculous but I'm not complaining (and is flattering in a way while also being a bit scary in its randomness).

JWBear

12-12-2008, 04:15 PM

I thought you worked for the county gov'ment?

I do.

Andrew

12-12-2008, 04:15 PM

Katiesue & Alex, glad you are still safely employed!

Kevy Baby

12-12-2008, 05:07 PM

I do.And then I read about it in the paper (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ocbudget12-2008dec12,0,2839856.story) at lunch right after I posted that.

Kevy Baby

02-04-2009, 11:17 AM

Alex's trip to Las Vegas has been canceled (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28999671/).

And in an example of poor writing, I present the opening paragraph to the article:

WASHINGTON - Wells Fargo & Co. abruptly canceled Tuesday a pricey Las Vegas casino junket for employees after a torrent of criticism that it was misusing $25 billion in taxpayer bailout money.Wow: it was going to be a $25 billion junket?

Alex

02-04-2009, 01:01 PM

I don't work at Wells but I used to. I wonder which event it was before I think about how inappropriate it was.

That said, big banks are national affairs and there is still a need to bring large geographically diverse groups of people together. And for the Wells footprint Vegas is reasonably central and reasonably cheap if you need to store 500 people for a few days.

And meantime, through other channels I am sure someone will be trying to find ways to spend government money to revive convention business in Vegas.

Kevy Baby

02-04-2009, 01:09 PM

That said, big banks are national affairs and there is still a need to bring large geographically diverse groups of people together. And for the Wells footprint Vegas is reasonably central and reasonably cheap if you need to store 500 people for a few days.I agree on that point. They just happened to be staying two of the more expensive properties in LV (the Wynn and Encore).

Betty

02-04-2009, 02:24 PM

Little news snippet says Obama is limiting CEO salaries of those companies in dire straits to $500k. I wonder if that includes bonuses.

Alex

02-04-2009, 02:26 PM

I agree on that point. They just happened to be staying two of the more expensive properties in LV (the Wynn and Encore).

True, but I don't know what they're needs were or the deal they got. But I don't think the story would have been too much different if they were staying at New York New York (a craptacular hotel I had to stay in for every Wells event I went to) or even off strip.

Moonliner

02-04-2009, 02:41 PM

Little news snippet says Obama is limiting CEO salaries of those companies in dire straits to $500k. I wonder if that includes bonuses.

Yes. It includes all types of benefits except stock options. Stock options may be given in any amount but they cannot be traded until the amount of the loan has been payed back to the US Government.

However, it should be noted there are a few stipulations... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/04/AR2009020401464.html?hpid=topnews)

This only applies to corporations that received extraordinary loans. Of the 300 or so corporations in the first go round, only three would qualify (AIG, Citi and Bank of America...)

This only applies going forward. It does NOT cover loans already made.

Corporations have the option to opt-out of the plan, simply by notifying their shareholders. The shareholders then get to vote on the issue but the results are non binding.

As far as I can tell, there is no stiplation on what use any money saved from this plan would be used for. In theory it could be used to pay back the loan but it could just as eaily go for a corporate retreat to Tahiti.