Eco-guilt

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Yup, green is important these days. You can't read anything without learning more about how screwed we are environmentally. It's starting to freak me out. I tried reading Hot, Flat, and Crowded (http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Flat-Crowded-Revolution-America/dp/0374166854/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229528736&sr=8-1), and the anger and fear it engendered made me put it down only a quarter of the way through. I just can't be that unhappy, that disappointed in the human race. It was wrecking me.

My workplace has a battery recycling bin. I've been very diligent about it, and it makes me feel a bit better. However, we don't have a normal recycling program at my condo complex. People in apts/condos are not recycling, at least in CA. All of our stuff goes into the trash bin. Or rather, all of our stuff goes into the landfills.

It's bugging me. We have one of those coin dispensing recycling things at the local market but I know I'm not going to make an effort if it's just select items. It's not about refund value. I don't think there's anywhere to drop off mixed recyclables.

My impulse is to find out about what I can do to get recycling into complexes. It's ridiculous that so many homes don't have this service. I've called our HOA before and they said it would cost more money, so we don't have it. I suppose I could go make a case with the HOA.

These are just my recycling worries. My power-using, gas-guzzling, buy-local worries are just as pressing. Is anyone else as worried as I am? Bringing my own bags to the market only does so much to make me feel better.

[Nephythys]

no- because I firmly believe that nothing is as bad as we are told and most fear mongering is designed to change our life styles out of a desire to control- not conserve.

We can be good stewards of our enviornment without fear and worry and guilt.

[BarTopDancer]

Waste disposal companies seperate and recycle at their facilities - at least Rainbow and WM do. We have a recycle dumpster in my complex but people put regular trash in it and I've watched them dump it in the same trash truck as the regular dumpsters.

I save my bottles and cans and bring them back. The recycle place right by my office and it takes about 5 minutes. I've made back $40 over the last year (I also take my friends bottles and cans). I also use a washable water cup and sturdy picnic plasticwear I picked up awhile back for lunches at work. 5 forks and knives a week * 52 weeks a year = 520 plastic utensils being put in the trash a year, per person. That's not counting spoons or plastic cups.

Fearmongering or not, we only have finite space on this planet.

[Strangler Lewis]

If the conservation movement can reduce the number of moms rolling up to school in a Hummer or monster SUV with their one child and swaggering out carrying a handgun, it will be a cultural positive.

Speaking of fear mongering.

[alphabassettgrrl]

SL- I'm with you there.

I won't buy into the propeganda, but I do recognize that some of the green stuff is valid. I try to reduce how much stuff we buy (and throw away), I bring my own waterbottle instead of buying disposable bottles, we try to reduce the number of miles driven and to make our car trips as efficient as possible. Many of our miles here in town during good weather are done by bike, instead of driving. That hits both the paying-for-gas thing, and the going-to-the-gym thing.

I try to live the efficient, frugal life that I wish more people would do. I don't need to keep up with Beverly Hills. Talking to other people is the next thing; if people see us passing up buying things, maybe they'll do the same.

Our economy is built on BUY BUY BUY and it's ultimately unsustainable- that leads to high debt, low wealth, and lots of trash in landfills. I'm not sure what the overall solution is, but I know that I just can't fall in line with mindless consumerism. Our society and economy are probably going to have to change, honestly.

[Alex]

I will admit that I haven't made any huge sacrifices but we try to make the obvious relatively easy choices.

We use CFLs. We live in the space we need rather than the space we can afford (we need a 700 sq. ft. apartment, we don't need a 3,000 sq. ft. house). We bought the most fuel efficient car that fills 90% of our driving needs rather than a car that can accommodate the other 10% (when those 10% arise most of the time we can manage -- you'd be amazed how much Ikea furniture we once crammed into a Festiva and still managed to get us both in the car to drive home -- and if we can't then we rent something for the specific use). We moved so that it is not necessary for either one of to commute to car by work (Lani can walk to work in three minutes; I can get there with public transit in a way that isn't horribly slower than driving). Temperatures have to reach significant extremes before we use heat or AC (our internal apartment temperature is generally well into the 90s before we turn on AC and we haven't yet used the heater since moving into our current place). We don't use fireplaces even when we have them.

But we do other things that we really shouldn't. We could do a lot more to shorten the transportation chain on our foods with just a little bit more effort. We eat too much pre-packaged manufactured food. We pretty much have three computers running 24/7. I buy three 20 oz. bottles of soda (diet) a day because that actually reduces my consumption over buying aluminum cans in bulk (or not drinking it in the first place). We've been told the garbage company that collects at our apartment handles recycling on their end so we made no real recycling efforts.

[tracilicious]

I don't think it's fearmongering. I actually think things are much worse than we think they are. But all I can do at this point is live as green a life as possible. Our condo doesn't recycle either. And I use our plastic bags for dog poop, so I'm not using green bags either. But we try to buy less and buy local, reusable bottles, etc.

One thing we're doing this year is giving extended family experiences instead of objects. My sis's family is getting zoo tickets. I think my little bro will get a massage certificate, etc.

[JWBear]

700 sqft?! I think Bill and I would end up killing each other if we had to cram into a space that small! Our current place is 1550 sqft, and it's just perfect for us.

[Nephythys]

controlling behavior through fear is mental and emotional terrorism-

modifying our behavior through responsible behavior and conscientious (sp) choices is appropriate

[tracilicious]

Sometimes things really are just that bad, though. I'm actually not afraid at all. If our species goes extinct, then so be it, but I don't want to be around to see it. It's going to take something big to turn things around though. The little green things we do in the meantime are just damage control.

[Andrew]

I do little green things, too. We always have more recycling than trash, and our waste collector definitely keeps them separate, even to the extent having separate trucks. We use CFLs and I've become an old man in my quest to keep the lights off in empty rooms. We've only just now turned on the heat, but I keep it in the low 60s. I bring fabric bags to the grocery store and Costco. We buy in bulk where possible, which cuts down on packaging waste and gas for shopping trips.

I'm sure this is all offset by the tremendous amount of electricity used by our many and varied electronics, of course.

Last time I was shopping for a new car I said I'd want an alternate fuel vehicle, but the selection was just not there at the time. I recognize and accept that my G35 gets fairly crappy mileage, and try to plan trips to avoid doubling back or stop-and-go traffic.

[Strangler Lewis]

controlling behavior through fear is mental and emotional terrorism-


which the car companies are guilty of in spades by telling people more or less blatantly that if they don't buy the biggest, most powerful gas guzzlers available they are 1) neglecting their family and 2) queer.

I agree with Alex. I would venture that less than ten percent of the big pickups I see around here can be justified based on lifestyle and true need. As for needing an SUV to go up to the mountains, after our first trip we frequently went up in our Honda Civic and would chain up as needed. On that first trip, I actually rented an SUV. The roads were clear, and I felt like a fool.

[Snowflake]

Well, gee whiz, didn't you see Wall-E? ;)

I agree, we do need to be good citizens as we can and recycle.

In SF, it is not uncommon to see many a 60+ chinese lady toting huge bags of crushed cans and bottles to the local grocery recycling. I realize they're digging in the trash (and the recycling bins people put in front of their homes) for the money, but they must be making a fair amount with the size of the bags I see them toting to Cala Market on Cal and Hyde.

There are separate trucks that come to our building, one for recylcing and one for the trash.

I've given up carrying bottled water (I was a big waster, cases upon case of bottled water for years) and I use a bottle that I can wash. We've also converted to using a Pur filter rather than more bottled water for drinking (ancient pipes make for not so nice tasting water) and the Pur filter has cured that.

[Not Afraid]

We do little things but we could do more. Long Beach has a great recycling program which we take advantage of. Chris takes the train to work when he can and maybe that offsets the gas used by my 21 MPG car - which I drive around town constantly. We use proper light bulbs when available and watch our outside water usage. We use fabric grocery bags about 50% of the time. But, I DO use my heater in the house and I'm not going to get rid of my car any time soon and, until fuzzy water comes out of the taps, we buy cases at a time.

I have a lot of bigger eco projects I would like to do - plant a water-wise landscape and install a drip system and get new insulation in the attic. The windows are leaky but that's not going to change anytime soon. It just takes money to be as eco and I'd like to be.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Traci- experiences last longer than "things" and it's a lot more fun! I'm sure your family will have a great Christmas (and tickets come in envelopes and little boxes- less landfill waste!).

[Alex]

700 sqft?! I think Bill and I would end up killing each other if we had to cram into a space that small! Our current place is 1550 sqft, and it's just perfect for us.

I think the biggest place we've ever lived was a 980 sq. ft. two bedroom apartment. Our last move was actually a smaller place than we had before.

Oh, one other change, since I got my Kindle in May I have read exactly one book printed on paper (The Watchmen which is entirely Kindle unfriendly). So I'm no longer contributing to paper use for books. I must admit that in the second Twilight book, where there are four pages that are essentially left blank (I'm assuming since I was reading it electronically) my first thought was "how many millions of pages of paper were wasted for a bit of artistic flair." Having converted, I look forward to the day that paper printing is akin to the lingering vinyl LP market. That is, an artifact channel rather than a distribution channel.

[Nephythys]

Well, gee whiz, didn't you see Wall-E? ;)


Bwa hahahaha! At the theatre they gave my daughter a rubber watch with an unchangeable battery- when it died it became trash.

[Disneyphile]

We do what we can, and I'm very conscious of some things.

However, I'll totally admit that we do not have a recycling bin at home for cans/bottles. Our kitchen is already small enough, and there's no room.

I don't feel guilty about that at all, because I do other things to make up for it. But, I really hate when someone comes into my home and condemns me for not having a recycling bin. In regards to the space issue, I've even been told, "that's no excuse". Um, sorry, but my comfort comes first, and I'm not sacrificing two square feet of the mere 21 that we have in there. We can already barely move in there as it is.

And, no, I'm not putting one outside either.

We largely make up for this by only buying sodas in 2-liter bottles, and we have a Brita pitcher for water. So, we discard approximately 2-3 soda bottles per week, if that. And, it's definitely not worth polluting the air to drive those couple of bottles over to a recycling center on a weekly basis.

We also eat mainly fresh foods and avoid most canned goods to also reduce the amount of trash we create.

:)

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I find a lot of the dogma behind the Green movement to be irritating and off-putting. And I don't wander around planet earth seeing only destruction and damage and the no good footprint of mankind. My guilt is measured and sprinkled around in small doses, and little of which is saved for the environment. But clearly our consumerist culture is wasteful, and there are ways to better conserve. Most of what the average person can do comes down to using common sense, having a little more patience and being less lazy. (Which is a challenge for me - heh.)

Not having a car is a mixed bag. In some ways it's eco-friendly, but in others it's not. Without a cart it's a PIA to get things to Goodwill, so I have trashed some things which could have been donated. I don't compost. I don't buy in bulk.

Little things I do: Use biodegradable trash bags for perishable items. I use vinegar and baking soda to clean, with a few Method products when necessary. I recycle, and hope it's not just bull****. I keep a drawer full of old batteries. I walk and ride my bike to local establishments. But I am in the process of getting a driver's license and I do want a car. And I don't want a hybrid, because I'm not convinced they aren't equally damaging if not more in the long run. And a non-hybrid can get equally good gas mileage if driven properly. I will also, once I have it, use it as conservatively as possible.

People who can afford it probably should install solar panels and create an eco-friendly landscape. People who can afford it should buy local, from farmer's markets, etc. I find that these Farmers Markets and Whole Foods are a luxury, so sometimes I shop there, but mostly I go to Ralphs.

"To Go" culture is one of the worst offenses, but I haven't stopped doing take-out or using plastic wear at work. Hopefully if our office moves and has its own kitchen I'll change my wicked ways.

I could buy a SIGG (http://www.mysigg.com/), and people who drink a lot more water than I do should probably do so if they like drinking water on the go.

Should definitely make more of an effort to use reusable bags for all my non-driving one-stop shopping. Should make coffee at home instead of ordering it "to go" everyday.

And, Alex, though I envy you your Kindle (just played around with one for the first time), and want one for myself, it won't replace books altogether for me. I'll still want them and buy them. Love the feel of them in my hands. Trees are there to breathe life, look pretty and become my books.

Also, light bulbs. I've not made that change yet. I tried, but I HATE the light the more eco-friendly bulbs give off. HATE. I'm light sensitive, it seems. Some hues give off a light I find sickly, and make me feel sick. So I'm old school until I find a type or wattage, etc. that is eco AND EH1812 friendly.

And I do leave the lights on. NM is trying to break me of this habit, but without much luck thus far. He lives in a dark house, and I like to bathe mine in light. I'll have to let go of that one, I think, and be better about conserving energy. But for some reason, this is a hard adjustment for me.

I'm also not ready to give up loooooooooong, hot showers. And as soon as I am sitting on my couch shivering in a blanket, the heat gets turned on. Not giving that up.

[Stan4dSteph]

Most grocery stores in France don't provide free plastic bags, so I got in the habit of bringing my own bags to do shopping. I use CFLs in all fixtures that allow it. I don't let the faucet run unnecessarily. I wash most clothes on cold, some on warm.

I moved closer to work recently, so have cut down on my commute impact. I might even try to bike to work when spring comes around.

Living green is very important to me, but I'm not fanatical about it.

It is very worrying what might happen. The earth's systems are sensitive things, and not easy to predict.

[Andrew]

Here's one more: as soon as we can manage to get the garage cleaned out enough to work in there, we are going to replace our old hot water heater with one of the new tankless models. I'd like to replace the furnace as well but haven't looked into it; it's as old as the house, which means going on 30.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Most grocery stores in France don't provide free plastic bags, so I got in the habit of bringing my own bags to do shopping.

I didn't know this. That's very cool. The fact is, most people will continue to use paper/plastic bags at these stores because they are conveniently provided. If more stores phased them out, people would have to bring their own. Hmm.

[Alex]

We really try to use cloth bags for groceries but we are inept. Unfortunately most trips to the grocery store involve driving there. So the bags have to be in the car. But when we get home with the groceries the bags come up into the apartment. Then we forget to put them back in the car. Then the next time we go grocery shopping we have no bags.

[alphabassettgrrl]

But when we get home with the groceries the bags come up into the apartment. Then we forget to put them back in the car. Then the next time we go grocery shopping we have no bags.

I play this game. I try, though, and one of these days I'll remember to put the bags where I need them.

One benefit to biking to the store: I just use the bag that attaches to my bike and don't need a plastic one.

[Ghoulish Delight]

We really try to use cloth bags for groceries but we are inept. Unfortunately most trips to the grocery store involve driving there. So the bags have to be in the car. But when we get home with the groceries the bags come up into the apartment. Then we forget to put them back in the car. Then the next time we go grocery shopping we have no bags.Yeah, that's the cycle I'm in. Though since I tend to do daily small shopping rather than large shopping, I can often just carry the handful of items out with no bag, or there will often be some random bag on the floor of my car I can grab.

[Snowflake]

We really try to use cloth bags for groceries but we are inept. Unfortunately most trips to the grocery store involve driving there. So the bags have to be in the car. But when we get home with the groceries the bags come up into the apartment. Then we forget to put them back in the car. Then the next time we go grocery shopping we have no bags.

This is why I have 6 dozen of the Trader Joe's plastic bags. That said, I am using them rather than the paper or plastic ones from the store.

[Kevy Baby]

And I do leave the lights on. NM is trying to break me of this habit, but without much luck thus far. He lives in a dark house, and I like to bathe mine in light. I'll have to let go of that one, I think, and be better about conserving energy. But for some reason, this is a hard adjustment for me.Yeah, but don't give NM credit for being "eco-friendly." While the lights may be dim, he has his home theatre system running full bore and the speakers outside blasting. What he might be saving in light energy, he is using in sound/vision energy. :D

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Yeah, but don't give NM credit for being "eco-friendly." While the lights may be dim, he has his home theatre system running full bore and the speakers outside blasting. What he might be saving in light energy, he is using in sound/vision energy. :D

I think he'd stop talking to me full-stop if I ever described him as "eco-friendly". He does his part to conserve energy, though, despite the awesomeness of his abode.

[Kevy Baby]

I think he'd stop talking to me full-stop if I ever described him as "eco-friendly".Hmm... this gives me an idea...

[lindyhop]

I recycle plastic, glass, newspapers, and mixed paper which is not a simple thing because my condo complex does not offer recycling. I make a trip to the recycling center at CSULB every few weeks which is a pain but it's important to me. I switched to a reusable water bottle a while ago but I still buy plastic bottles of fuzzy water. I'm switching to CFLs as lightbulbs burn out.

My concern about recycling has made it almost impossible for me to just throw stuff in the trash. Taking old stuff to Goodwill is work all by itself so I'm much more careful about buying useless stuff.

Personally I think the fearmongers aren't scaring us enough.

[Not Afraid]

Here's one more: as soon as we can manage to get the garage cleaned out enough to work in there, we are going to replace our old hot water heater with one of the new tankless models. I'd like to replace the furnace as well but haven't looked into it; it's as old as the house, which means going on 30.

We did this a few years ago and got a front loading washer/dryer. That was expensive enough. I just wish I had the money to do all of the other "Eco" projects I would like to do. And, pshaw, 30 is NOT old (our house is now 81!)

We really try to use cloth bags for groceries but we are inept. Unfortunately most trips to the grocery store involve driving there. So the bags have to be in the car. But when we get home with the groceries the bags come up into the apartment. Then we forget to put them back in the car. Then the next time we go grocery shopping we have no bags.

Ditto.
Taking old stuff to Goodwill is work all by itself so I'm much more careful about buying useless stuff.



I have been better about this AND I have been trying to buy BETTER things when I do buy them because they tend to last longer. While I can get distracted very easily at Target, I tend NOT to buy things because they are just on sale. I will wait to buy something until it is on sale (if I can). I also stay far away from the $1 section.

[Alex]

Out of curiosity, according to our water bill (this apartment is the first I've ever had where I pay water) we use about 1400-1600 gallons a month. How does that compare?

[€uroMeinke]

I think you can drive yourself insane following all the "green" messages. The bottom line is that we all have an impact on the planet no matter what we do and it seems many of the green choices are more fashion/status conscious than anything else as some people tend to engage in a sort of green one-upsmanship.

So we have cloth bags for groceries, but I still want bags because I use them - to do among other things, bag up my recyclables - or cat poop.I've switched to CFCs through most of the house, but my Edison Bill show my electricity usage still in steady incline. We have a tankless water heater, so now I take longer showers (especially now with the cold). I take the train, but while gas prices got me to do it, I prefer it to the driving experience. I still hate busses. Still buy books and CDs and DVDs, but at least the Art we buy has mostly been made out of recycled materials. I like to travel so I peiodically increase my carbon footprint, but that's not something I want to give up.

Anyway, I suppose we can all reduce consumption, eat lower on the food chain and all that - but I'm a hedonist and need a few indulgences every now and then .

[Alex]

I like to think that you've actually switched to CFCs wherever you can. Yay freon refrigerators and old fashioned aerosol hairspray cans.

[Not Afraid]

In an effort to create more storage space, we've been working on a project to remove all of our DVDs from their plastic cases and store them in binder sleeves instead. I did all of the Disney Amination and was APPALLED at the amount of advertising extras that were included in each package. I generated loads of trash just from that one segment of our collection.

Speaking of which.......we have a TON of DVD boxes to get rid of. I remember reading here (?) that they were recyclable somewhere. Anyone have a better memory that i do?

[mousepod]

In an effort to create more storage space, we've been working on a project to remove all of our DVDs from their plastic cases and store them in binder sleeves instead. I did all of the Disney Amination and was APPALLED at the amount of advertising extras that were included in each package. I generated loads of trash just from that one segment of our collection.

Speaking of which.......we have a TON of DVD boxes to get rid of. I remember reading here (?) that they were recyclable somewhere. Anyone have a better memory that i do?

How have you been storing your DVDs? I've been interested in getting DiscSox (http://www.mmdesign.com/), but they seem expensive (esp when buying over 1000 in one shot).

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Another thing - I keep reading things that talk about sustainable cities, low impact building materials, and how the suburban neighborhood architecture just doesn't make sense......but damn it, I still want a ranch house with green grass that I pour water into all summer long, far enough from a city center that I can avoid the noise and danger, yet close enough so I can access it's amenities (which, of course, requires my own car).

Sorry, planet.

[Alex]

CP, PM me your mailing address. I have a book I'd like to send you that discusses that urge.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Speaking of which.......we have a TON of DVD boxes to get rid of. I remember reading here (?) that they were recyclable somewhere. Anyone have a better memory that i do?Actually, we take those at the library. We always need replacements for the DVD cases which die pretty quickly in circulation. I bet your local branch would be happy to have them!

[Not Afraid]

How have you been storing your DVDs? I've been interested in getting DiscSox (http://www.mmdesign.com/), but they seem expensive (esp when buying over 1000 in one shot).


I ended up getting these. (http://www.amazon.com/Compucessory-Storage-Sleeves-Sheet-Header/dp/B000EFM75M) I bought several - well LOTS - of boxes of 10 sheets which hold 2 DVDs each. Then, because I wanted it to be pretty as well as functional, I bough some attractive binders (http://russellandhazel.stores.yahoo.net/si3ribi.html) to put the sheets in. We're not completely done yet, but so far it's great. And the ROOM it frees up!!!!!

[Morrigoon]

However, we don't have a normal recycling program at my condo complex. People in apts/condos are not recycling, at least in CA. All of our stuff goes into the trash bin. Or rather, all of our stuff goes into the landfills.

It's bugging me. We have one of those coin dispensing recycling things at the local market but I know I'm not going to make an effort if it's just select items. It's not about refund value. I don't think there's anywhere to drop off mixed recyclables.

My impulse is to find out about what I can do to get recycling into complexes. It's ridiculous that so many homes don't have this service. I've called our HOA before and they said it would cost more money, so we don't have it. I suppose I could go make a case with the HOA.

My complex used to have it, but it wasn't self-supporting. Not, I think, because people weren't putting stuff in the bin, but rather, because other people were taking stuff out of the bin and recycling it themselves for profit, when those profits should've been used to pay for the pick-up of the recyclables.

We don't even know where our local recycling center is, so unfortunately, we stopped separating our trash. If Stater Bros had a recycle center in their parking lot, I could probably continue recycling, but they don't and anything further is too far out of the way for a few cans and bottles. I think more Americans would recycle voluntarily if recycling were simply made more convenient. If every grocery store had a recycle center, for example.

We have switched to CFLs. Now I have the problem of figuring out how to dispose of a dead cfl bulb. But overall we're very happy with CFL bulbs.

EH: did you try CFLs or LEDs? And if not both, try the other and see if that's better for you.

[lashbear]

no- because I firmly believe that nothing is as bad as we are told and most fear mongering is designed to change our life styles out of a desire to control- not conserve.

We can be good stewards of our environment without fear and worry and guilt.
The Lashpair thoroughly endorse these statements.

We have, in our own little way, been green by using low-wattage lightbulbs, and have now got a Soda-machine which has eliminated the mountain of plastic bottles that we formerly produced.

Stoat says: If we worry about all the world's causes we could go crazy. It's a bottomless list. We believe the key is to avoid negligence when it's in your power to do so. Addressing a bottomless list is not.

And we've read enough to realise that if the world is headed for disaster based on "Non-Green" practices, then it's going to take MILLIONS of years for that to happen, and by that time we'll have caused instant annihilation by discovering the Higgs Bosun using the Hadron Collider and causing another big bang, after which no-one will care much for being green anyway.

See "A short history of nearly everything" by Bill Bryson for more info.

[Nephythys]

Thanks-

Just as many oppose controlling the population through fear as in "threat level orange" (whatever that means)-I think controlling consumer behavior through fear and guilt is wrong- and most likely dishonest.

All these years of the sky is falling and the trash is not overflowing onto our streets. The planet continues to do it's "thing"-

Be responsible in your choices-that's pretty much it.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

How have you been storing your DVDs? I've been interested in getting DiscSox (http://www.mmdesign.com/), but they seem expensive (esp when buying over 1000 in one shot).

We ditched the boxes earlier this year, and it's been terrific. We really appreciate the extra space.

We have a couple of these babies (http://www.target.com/Disc-Storage-Solutions-100-CD-Case/dp/B0015UNF8S/sr=1-2/qid=1229629220/ref=sr_1_2/187-5228396-0900462?ie=UTF8&index=target&field-browse=3665671&rh=k%3Adisc&page=1).

[Alex]

I don't go all the way down to sleeves because they annoy me, but I do move all of them over to slim jewel CD cases and then keep the actual DVD cases in a box out in the storage closet on the patio in case I ever want to offload the DVD collection (I'm pretty sure if I took a couple hundred DVDs in CD cases to the Goodwill they'd toss them; let alone tried to sell them in some way).

[Disneyphile]

Oh, and Ken and I have decided against having a child unless through adoption, so I think we've already beat out a lot of people by eliminating the impact of adding to the population.

That's usually my last resort argument to friends (usually with children) who wag their fingers me for not keeping a recycling bin in our itty bitty kitchen.

I'd like to make a poster and place a hidden camera next to it to see people's reactions - "Want to really help the planet? Don't have kids. Less people=less impact." :evil:

As for DVDs/CDs/Video Games, we compacted ours to binders a little over a year ago and love it. It has saved SO much clutter. I'm also starting the process of digitally capturing our old VHS tapes to either burn to DVD or keep on a drive. Most of the old cases get saved and then reused for my non-contract projects, or for sample reels.

[Jazzman]

Personally, I can't decide whether to consider the Green Movement/Global Warming to be the eugenics of the 21st century, or religion for atheists. Both are so accurate.

I have not a lick of eco-guilt, as I believe that global warming is B.S. I used to subscribe to it all, worry about the ozone layer, all that crap. Then I read State of Fear and looked up most of the documents in the bibliography and realized that the whole environmental movement is so far off base that it's like George Bush calling for sensible economic policy. I get into arguments all the time with hippies (gotta love Portland) who get their info from Newsweek and Al Gore and can't grasp that Earth's climate is an extremely complex system that is far greater in scope than anything mankind could ever largely influence and that almost all Global Warming evidence is anecdotal at best and completely ignores any findings contrary to what the alarmists and doom sayers preach. Case in point, the arctic ice sheet. The big news over the summer was that the arctic ice was going to completely disappear, but then, guess what. Nothing. Less ice loss than 2007. Oops. But, of course, they're right about everything else! Right!?! Riiigghht!?!?!

Anyhow, I should stop before I get really started. As far as Earth-saving measures, we recycle everything; glass, plastic, paper, cardboard. I may not be concerned about Global Warming, but limiting the size of landfills is a cause I can get behind. We don't use CFLs (may as well use candles, as far as I'm concerned) but we do use the cool Trader Joe's reusable shopping bags most of the time. We drive pretty fuel efficient little cars (though I should admit that eventually I plan to buy the biggest, most obnoxious, non-Hummer [cause they're friggin ugly] SUV I can find and drive it back and forth as often as possible with a sticker that says "Suck it, Hippy!") But that's pretty much it. Once we buy a house, I'd like to install solar panels, but that's more out of a desire to give the PUD as little as possible. All in all, I feel about as much eco-guilt as a Haliburton exec.

[Jazzman]

"Want to really help the planet? Don't have kids. Less people=less impact."

Sheer brilliance! I want one!

[JWBear]

We've been replacing our incandescant bulbs with CFLs (at least, the ones we can). I can't understand the objection to CFLs, as you can now buy ones that are color adjusted to mimic incandescant.

Another thing you can do is eliminate redundant lighting and/or reduce the wattage. So many people think they need to light-up their homes like operating rooms. One of our bathrooms has a fixture that uses six 60 watt bulbs... that's 360 watts! We took four of them out, and it's plenty bright. Homes are so much more cozy and inviting when the lighting is moderate.

[Kevy Baby]

I have to confess that we are terrible on the lighting issue because of the reptiles. We have four large dragon enclosures which all have a 100 watt basking (heat) lamp AND a 25 watt UV lamp (UV for their health and the basking lamp because they like temperatures between 95-105 degrees). These run on average 12-14 hours a day every day (except when they brumate, which is coming up real soon).

This energy consumption is then compounded in the summer months in that all the heat generated by the basking lamps makes the house hot and forces more AC running.

We also have a 60 watt basking lamp and UV light on the chameleon and a 15 watt UV lamp for the gecko.

The cats don't require much electrical energy, but they are draining in other ways.

[Ghoulish Delight]

The rabbits have definitely upped our home climate control use. They can neither be too warm or too cold. I recently replaced our old thermostat with a decent digitally programmable one so at the very least we try to run the a/c and heat intelligently.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

CP, PM me your mailing address. I have a book I'd like to send you that discusses that urge.

Out of curiosity, what is the title?

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

EH: did you try CFLs or LEDs? And if not both, try the other and see if that's better for you.

Hate them both.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Oh, and Ken and I have decided against having a child unless through adoption, so I think we've already beat out a lot of people by eliminating the impact of adding to the population.

The first gift (and probably only) gift I will purchase for your adopted child is a t-shirt with the recycling symbol.:evil:

[Disneyphile]

The first gift (and probably only) gift I will purchase for your adopted child is a t-shirt with the recycling symbol.:evil:Well, he/she would technically be a "recycled" child, so it fits. :p

[CoasterMatt]

The 1100 watt power supply in the Atomic Cookie Blast Furnace kind of undoes the ccfls throughout the house.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Well, he/she would technically be a "recycled" child, so it fits. :p

Exactly the point of the purchase. ;)

[Chernabog]

Why did I read this thread as "Eco-Quilt"? I thought we were gonna knit something fun, instead it's all about saving the stinky old polar bears.

[Morrigoon]

Who wants to explain to Cherny the difference between quilting and knitting? Anyone? Anyone?

[Prudence]

Someone replaced most of the light bulbs in our place with CFLs. Someone else, namely me, finds them annoying. Sure, they're fine when they warm up, but when I just want to pop on the light for a moment to put some laundry away, it's so dim to start off with. And by the time they're actually all the way on, I'm long done. So, there's no point in turning on the light at all, and I just put stuff away in the dark. Which, I suppose, saves energy, although not in the intended fashion. Or is it? Maybe it's a plot to make CFLs just useful enough that we'll buy them, but just annoying enough that we'll just do stuff in the dark rather than wait for them to actually turn on.

[CoasterMatt]

What CFLs are you using that require "warming up"?

[JWBear]

Replace them with the "instant on" kind.

[Alex]

None of the CFLs we currently have in the house do the multi-step brightening that I experienced early on with them. And all the stuff I've read has said those problems have mostly been solved.

I wonder if it is a brand thing.

[Prudence]

They're "instant on", but not all the way. There's no pause while they figure out whether they're really turning on or not, but they take considerable time to get to full brightness.

[Ghoulish Delight]

We recently replaced our kitchen flood bulbs with CFLs. Those do take a while to warm up, but are a much better quality of light once they are warmed up than we got from CFL flood bulbs a few years ago.

[Alex]

Who wants to explain to Cherny the difference between quilting and knitting? Anyone? Anyone?

Quilting is what old ladies do in groups.

Knitting is what old ladies do by themselves once they've been abandoned by family into poorly run nursing home.

Crocheting is what old ladies do when they realize that no extra roll of toilet paper should ever be left without the protection of a doll outfitted in an antebellum dress including large hoop skirt.

Macrame is what quilters, knitters, and crocheters make fun of.

Or so I've learned from my family experience.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Crocheting is what old ladies do when they realize that no extra roll of toilet paper should ever be left without the protection of a doll outfitted in an antebellum dress including large hoop skirt.


My grandmother's toilet paper protection doll wore a lovely crochet of white and pink.

[JWBear]

They're "instant on", but not all the way. There's no pause while they figure out whether they're really turning on or not, but they take considerable time to get to full brightness.

"Instant on" ones don't do that. They are full bright the instant you turn them on. We have several.

[Alex]

My grandmother's toilet paper protection doll wore a lovely crochet of white and pink.

My great-grandmother's were generally red. She made them throughout the year (among other crocheted treats) and then toured the Christmas craft shows. How I hated the Christmas craft shows. Though the crocheted pot holders were actually pretty useful and durable.

[JWBear]

My mother knitted and crocheted. Fortunately, her crocheting was limited to bedspreads and afgans (and one scarf).

[Alex]

Ahhh....the ugly, oh so ugly afghans. The only thing they were useful for was laying them out on the floor of her living room to hide the awful lime green carpeting you would otherwise be lying on it (because the cigarette smoke was so think it started 18 inches off the floor and never let up -- I grew up in an object lesson on how to get below the smoke if the house ever caught fire).

The memories. Also, the mittens (to this day I hate mittens) connected by a string so you couldn't lose them.

[JWBear]

I have several sets of knitted potholders a friend's mother made me. I still use them (which annoys Bill to no end).

[Scrooge McSam]

Guilt? Hmmm... for me, not so much. More like CHALLENGE!

I don't crave a large space. "Enough" suits me. It always has. "More more more" strikes me as waste. Sure, I succumbed to the temptation and did the bigger car and roomy condo for a while in Dallas. Did it make my any happier? Nah, not really. So I resolved to get back to the real me when I moved back to Vicksburg.

"It's kinda small, Sam... and it stinks!" was the first comment one of my co-workers made about my place when I bought it. It was a small rag-tag little hovel on about .5 acre right across the street from where I knew I would be working in about 2 years (our office was in the process of de-consolidating at the time and those of us due to make the move were just waiting on our new space to be built out). It had good bones but just needed a little love and a little work. Make that a lotta work.

"Yeah, but I can fix it up. You'll see. And I'll be able to walk to work."

Boy howdy, did THAT impress her! Homegirl lives in a builder development McMansion with 3K+ sq ft of interior space, expansive 6 ft wide side yards and backyard big enough for a grill and about 3 chairs, if you push it. And she spends all day Saturday cleaning it. Never schedule a movie with her on a Saturday. She WILL cancel. I really need to teach her the concept of "clean as you go". But I shouldn't be so hard on her. She's had a rough couple of years what with that 25 mile commute she has every day in her Suburban.

But we were talking about eco-guilt and smaller footprint on the planet and all that jazz, yeah?

Lashie... I'm with you on the 6 bulb KW burner bath fixtures. I lost those the first week.

CFLs... All the way, baby! Slapped those suckers in the second year I was here. Immediate 20% drop in the electric bill, if i recall. I'll have to find that old worksheet. Yes, I track my KW hour usage. Eliza, I hear you. I've heard the same complaint (quality of light) from many. I guess I'm lucky. They dont' bother me. Yay me!

Scrooge loves him some puttering around in the kitchen and can jolly well crust up a pan or two. "Clean as you go" though has left my dishwasher with no love. I think I've used it twice in 6 years now.

I have an erotic relationship with my tankless water heater. He bathes my naked bod in continuous warmth for pennies compared to "Tank". Tank was fat and slow and spent too much of my money. And now that I've kicked Tank to the curb, me and my new "hottie" are planning a separate shower and whirlpool tub for the bath. We're very excited.

High efficiency furnace and chiller... Mo money saved! We have actual seasons here so I need my AC and heat. A programmable thermostat keeps the costs down though.

Monster washer and dryer? Yeah, I'm talking to you. You're next! It's not that I haven't enjoyed giving up a chunk of my dining nook to have you here, but I'm tired of moving that wood screen every time we do a load together. I'm sure you'll agree that screen will look better in the living room behind the big lamp. Me and "hottie' have decided to get one of those all-in-one Not Afraid style machines when we re-do the bathroom. Besides, you two use WAY too much water and electricity.

I'm back in a smaller car now, loving that 38mgp on the highway.

Last year, I bought one of those "Kill-A Watt" devices so I could tag all the power suckers (devices that consume electricity even when they're powered off) I have left. I dug out my old Radio Shack "Plug N Power" remote set and mounted the remote right by the front door. When I walk out, I can kill power to the TVs, game console, laptop brick, printer brick, microwave, DVD player, amp, etc. The only devices that stays on are the cable modem, router, cable box and Tivo. It'll be another 6 months or so before I can get a read on how much that saved.

Scrooge... it's not just a username, it's a way of life ;)

I hate hate hate those plastic shopping bags. But I have it good. The kitchen is about 10 steps away from the garage, so it's no problem to pop out and drop my cloth bags in the trunk after the groceries are put away. I still get funny looks though when I pop into the store for 1 or 2 items and tell the cashier "no bag, please".

Could I do more? Oh hell yeah... if i could put some solar panels up. My neighbors huge live oaks prevent me from doing that though. And I could plan a little better so I don't have to make that occasional extra run to the store. And I'd love to do a garden, but NOBODY can kill a plant like I can. :(

[Not Afraid]

We have several of the "icky" kind of CFLs. One is in our front porch light and it's the MOST unwelcoming light ever. And, the damn thing lasts forever. The other is in the laundry room and it will probably last for YEARS as well - and it's the warm-up kind.

The rest of the CFLs are the "good" kind and I can't tell the difference between these and regular old light bulbs. I wasn't sold at first as I'm VERY light sensitive, but I love them now.

[Scrooge McSam]

I guess I was lucky with the CFLs. These I bought years ago pop right on at full brightness.

[Stan4dSteph]

GE has a new CFL that looks like a regular incandescent. The ballast is all up inside the globe. http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/11/ge-frees-cfl-lighting-from-the-tyranny-of-ugly/

Living in France also got me mostly over the need for lots of stuff. The problem is now I've got it all back and I still have an inability to get rid of most things. A lot of it is still in boxes.

[Not Afraid]

Then there's the problem of getting rid of the damn things. E-waste is not easy to get rid of.

[Ghoulish Delight]

After the great flood of '08 we couldn't justify the significant expense difference for the tankless heater. But being forced to switch from a 20 year old sediment filled hunk to a sleek shiny new efficient tank wasn't a horrible second option. Still not as clean as we'd like, but it does the job well and definitely keeps the bill lower than the last one.

Our garage and carport are directly behind our unit with a little enclosed back patio. Outside that is just asphalt and dumpsters. It's fabulous to be able to pull right up to our place. But stupidly, the units are designed to be entered from the "front" door that that faces the large central, well landscaped common areas and the pool. We NEVER come in that way, so we experience our house totally backwards. As a result, the light switches are positioned totally inconveniently, across the room from where we usually enter it. Thus, we end up using a freaking halogen fixture that's attached to the most convenient switch. I'm now trying to make a conscious effort to break that habit. Or think about replacing the halogen fixture. It's kinda nice looking so it'd be a shame, but it shouldn't be our primary light source.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I guess I was lucky with the CFLs. These I bought years ago pop right on at full brightness.
Most of ours do, and have for a while, but for some reason these floodlight ones take their sweet time. Probably because they're on the high wattage end of things.

[wendybeth]

Just so you know, Scrooge- you've got competition in the plant murdering arena. I have a horticulturist friend who's made it her life's mission to find me unkillable plants of the not-silk variety. The last one she gave me was some little mini pine tree thingy that she swore was indestructible. A few months later, it was a mini dried out thingy that looked like it belonged to Charlie Brown. Ironically, I watered it to death.

Right now I'm doing in a few poinsettias and another mini pine tree like thingy.

[€uroMeinke]

For last years NYE party I got CFL black Lights. I'm still trying to identify which are the CFLs I like. Our first batch was great, but it seems during the great CFL rebate/subsidy era a bunch of icky ones made it to market and into our house. I'd like to replace those.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I give full credit to the rebate/subsidy programs for prompting us to switch. We'd given it a try once, weren't totally sold, then one day some dudes from home depot dropped by courtesy our complex and dropped off some oscillating fans and a boatload of CFLs. We may still be using a few of them. We were all in after that.

[Scrooge McSam]

Just so you know, Scrooge- you've got competition in the plant murdering arena. <snip> Ironically, I watered it to death.

I've been told that's what I'm doing. But I do the finger in the dirt to make sure it's starting to dry out. I don't know... maybe I just don't have the touch.

[BarTopDancer]

Because of the recent mention of Method products I gave them a second look at Target this weekend. I needed dishwashing soap and dishwasher detergent. The dishwasher detergent price was so close to my normal Cascade that I decided to give it a try, and after one wash, I am sold. No odors (I picked the unscented) and as promised on the package, no film. I compared them to some dishes in the cupboard and they weren't nearly as shiny as the ones that just came out of the dishwasher. They also got off the baked on and dried on ikkyness that was on some of the dishes and bowls. 2 :cheers: up for Method dishwasher detergents.

Haven't tried the soap yet, but as my cleaning products run out I'll be giving Method serious consideration when it comes to replacement.

[Not Afraid]

I use Mrs. Meyers products for the most part. Method comes in second.

[Stan4dSteph]

I took some classes with the guy who started the Method products company. He was in my graduating class at Stanford. I also love their products.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I give full credit to the rebate/subsidy programs for prompting us to switch. Just this week, one of those original CFLs died. I believe it's the first one to go. I pulled out a replacement and the difference in size and shape was surprising. New ones, even the off-brand ones, are much more compact and attractive.

[RStar]

The one thing about some CFLs is that it takes a few moments to come on. Some folks not knowing better will flip the switch off then on again trying to get it to come on. In some multi socket lamps I stick a low wattage bulb in one so that it will let them know the power is on. Other than that I have switched over completely to CFLs and some LED as well. It's made a difference in my bill, not to mention helping the environment. And I didn't spend more than a buck on any one of them, some I got a 3 for a dollar deal!

[BarTopDancer]

The problem I'm having with CFLs is that they contain mercury. While the amount is small in the individual light bulb, the mass quantities of these that are going to end up in the landfill one day and that can't be good.

Snopes link (http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp)

[Alex]

Well, if that bothers you keep in mind that there are already a century's worth of flourescent light bulbs in landfills, generally of types that have way more mercury than household CFLs. Mercury-using flourescent bulbs are not new, just the smaller home uses.

Also, if you use a new model CFL until it burns out there will be about 0.2 milligrams (0.0002 grams) of Mercury released into the soil or air when it gets broken at a landfill (http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf). According to that link, if every single CFL sold was used to lifespan and then broken it would amount to a 0.1% increase in human mercury emissions. As it also notes, while a CFL puts 0.2 milligrams of mercury into the environment when broken at the end of its life, it saves 4.5 milligrams of mercury from going into the environment due to reduced power use.

So, I think you can safely say that in terms of environmental mercury, CFLs are very much the obvious choice.

Then on top of that, it is technically (though I doubt their is much recognition of it) illegal to put CFLs into the California landfills. But you can do your part to keep even that 0.2mg out of landfills by recycling your bulb at a designated e-waste recycling center (http://ciwmb.ca.gov/Electronics/Collection/RecyclerList.aspx?MaterialTypeIDList=57&CountyIDList=19,30&FacilityName=&FormsAccepted=&MinimumQuantityAccepted=&QuantityAcceptedUnitsID=).

[DreadPirateRoberts]

VAM for CFL myth busting

[Scrooge McSam]

The problem I'm having with CFLs is that they contain mercury. While the amount is small in the individual light bulb, the mass quantities of these that are going to end up in the landfill one day and that can't be good.

Snopes link (http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp)

Like so many things, it will be a matter of education. Most of my friends and people I work with had never even considered CFLs until I explained what they were and explained the benefits. Now all those same people know about Home Depot's recycling program and WHY it's so important.

Still, some people will never get it.

ETA: Testify, Alex!!!

[BarTopDancer]

Thanks Alex!

[second class citizen]

Anyone remember the old SNL "commercial" skit where the wife squirted some foamy product from a can onto the floor and started mopping while her husband grabbed the same can out of her hand and squirted some to top off his ice cream?

"It's a floor wax!" she said.

"It's a desert topping!" he exclaimed.

"It's BOTH!" the announcer boasts. "It's a floor wax AND a desert topping!"

This scene came to mind today after John and I went to Target yesterday to buy some wood cleaner for our wood patio furniture. I wanted to get something to remove all the grim off the wood table and buffet before giving them a their fresh yearly coat of teak oil to help protect them from the elements.

At Target in the Cleaning Products aisle I saw some Method Good for Wood. Reading the label, I saw that it was eco-friendly and smelled of almond. And it was cheap.

So, today, being such a nice day outside, I armed myself with my newly acquired cleaning agent and some old tattered white washclothes to tackle the job at hand.

I sprayed some of the liquid on the clean white cloth and immediately was taken back by the aroma. It was incredible! My stomach started gurgling and grumbling, thinking of the mixed nuts milkshake that I'd just recently had at the Land of Fruits and Nuts place on the Queen Mary (we went there last weekend to take advantage of their CA residents get in free deal). I guess the almond smell made me think of the nuts and caramel syrup, the lady had put in my shake.

After wiping the clean almond scented soaked cloth once across the top of the table, I turned it over to inspect how much dirt it had taken off. There were jet black "finger" marks on the otherwise pristine white rag where it had picked up all the outdoor grime. The top was already looking shiny, luscrous and new. I was amazed!

I instantly felt like I was in some bizarre kind of commercial of sorts. I was feeling slightly deliriously happy while I was cleaning! Was it the spring weather? Was it the almond scent?

All I know is that I wanted to clean MORE! I began thinking about all the wood furniture inside our house that I could clean. And how it would smell all almondy and such.

I started squirting more and more of this stuff on my rag and going over every square inch of the table. I got down DEEP into the cracks between the wood top slats. Then I turned it over and started with the legs and the underside of the top. My head was getting giddy now with the smell. I took the dirty disgusting looking rag inside to have John smell how wonderful it was. He sniffed. He agreed.

I was on a roll now. After finishing up the table, I started in on the buffet. By now John had come out to take a look and noticed how nice and shiny the table now looked. I exclaimed, "The next time we go to Target, we need to get MORE of this stuff!" He agreed.

As I was finishing up on the buffet, I thought whoever came up with this product, one that is eco-friendly, one that works beautifully, one that is very affordable, and one that works your olfactory senses into orgasm should be handed some kind of award.

The question is: what kind?

[bewitched]

and one that works your olfactory senses into orgasm should be handed some kind of award.

The question is: what kind?


I'm going to punt and say that Kevy has an answer. :p

[Morrigoon]

scc: I don't know but your story reminded me of some episodes of "how clean is your house" on BBC America. The ladies on there often use banana peels to shine shoes and houseplants.

[innerSpaceman]

I'm not sure what award would be best ... but I'm real glad the story didn't end with one of you tasting the stuff.

[JWBear]

I'm not sure what award would be best ... but I'm real glad the story didn't end with one of you tasting the stuff.

For a moment, I was worried he would... :rolleyes:

[Andrew]

Anyone remember the old SNL "commercial" skit where the wife squirted some foamy product from a can onto the floor and started mopping while her husband grabbed the same can out of her hand and squirted some to top off his ice cream?

"Shimmer (http://www.hulu.com/watch/61320/saturday-night-live-shimmer-floor-wax#in-playlist)" from SNL ('76), brought to you by the brain-sucking aliens at Hulu.

[€uroMeinke]

I'm not sure what award would be best ... but I'm real glad the story didn't end with one of you tasting the stuff.

I'm rather disappointed he didn't - I mean, it was all leading up there - and heck if it's eco friendly and non-toxic, why not add some to a tasty beverage or ice cream treat?

[innerSpaceman]

If you added it to a tasty beverage, how would you know whether it was toxic?

[€uroMeinke]

If you added it to a tasty beverage, how would you know whether it was toxic?

Is this not the basis of the scientific method?

I start with a premise - this cleanser can be a non-toxic flavoring

Conduct an experiment to test the premise - Drink the stuff and see what happens

Either confirm or reject the premise based on the outcome of the experiment - Several days recooping in the hospital means this cleanser cannot be used as a food flavor additive vs. Enjoying a tasty beverage with no ill effects means a unique New Years Eve punch...

[Alex]

Well, it should be double blind, so you should probably get somebody else to drink it and then not know if you actually gave them any.

[second class citizen]

Is this not the basis of the scientific method?

I start with a premise - this cleanser can be a non-toxic flavoring

Conduct an experiment to test the premise - Drink the stuff and see what happens

Either confirm or reject the premise based on the outcome of the experiment - Several days recooping in the hospital means this cleanser cannot be used as a food flavor additive vs. Enjoying a tasty beverage with no ill effects means a unique New Years Eve punch...

Hhhhmmmm....well, now you've really got me wondering! I mean, afterall, it IS called Good for Wood, right? Aren't cocktails supposed to be good for that sort of thing?

[Alex]

It appears that "Wood for Good" and "Good for Wood" are two different products.

Sadly, neither one produces humorous results when doing a Google search.

[second class citizen]

Well, it should be double blind, so you should probably get somebody else to drink it and then not know if you actually gave them any.

Perhaps the Lashpair would be good test subjects when they arrive at our house. We'll just tell them we've got a new almond flavored cocktail :cheers: we'd like them to try.

[Alex]

Though I do like that their page telling you what it is made of (http://www.methodhome.com/Product.aspx?page=614) doesn't actually tell you what it is made of (except so far as saying "metal things!" and "plastic things!" and "some fabric too!" tells you what is in a car).

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/06b666ae72/gobstopper-trailer

[Not Afraid]

Well, I'm just going to come over and taste the stuff. I'm dreaming it tastes just like marzipan. Maybe I should prong some chocolate along to enjoy with it.

[€uroMeinke]

Nobody makes chocolate flavored cleaning products

[second class citizen]

Well, I'm just going to come over and taste the stuff. I'm dreaming it tastes just like marzipan. Maybe I should prong some chocolate along to enjoy with it.


Yes! Perhaps that's why I got so giddy. I LOVE marzipan!

John seems to think it smelled more like an almond/lemon combo, but you can be the judge. I just know I wanted to smear it all over our furniture and that it lingered on my fingers all day long.

(Hhhmmm...that last comment sounded so dirty.)

[€uroMeinke]

(Hhhmmm...that last comment sounded so dirty.)

Good thing it's a cleanser

[Not Afraid]

John seems to think it smelled more like an almond/lemon combo, but you can be the judge. I just know I wanted to smear it all over our furniture and that it lingered on my fingers all day long.

(Hhhmmm...that last comment sounded so dirty.)

Replace "furniture" with "bodies" and replace the second "it" with "he" and you're there!

[Morrigoon]

Well, I'm just going to come over and taste the stuff. I'm dreaming it tastes just like marzipan. Maybe I should prong some chocolate along to enjoy with it.

Apparently a bottle of amaretto would make a decent birthday gift?

[Not Afraid]

Well, not for me it wouldn't.

[€uroMeinke]

Well - after a clean-up of the spectacular spectacular, (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=274009&postcount=2134) it turns out we have some of that "Got Wood" cleanser.

Noting that the bottle said "Non-toxic" I did what any 3-year old child would do, I ate some. Or rather, I pour some into the palm of my had and had a taste.

While there is an unmistakable pleasant almond aroma, it was accompanied with a rather soapy finish, which sadly lingers much longer than the almond.

I'm not in the hospital yet, but as Alex's comment implied, that could be the result of some placebo effect not having done the experiment using a double-blind methodology.

In any event, I believe the soapiness discounts it's use as a cocktail mixer.

[bewitched]

Way to take one for the team. :D

[Not Afraid]

So, here we are, 15 minutes later, Chris is at his desk like normal. He reaches over for a flask of cognac (which apparently lives next to his desk), opens it up, takes a swig then looks at me and pronounces "I have soap taste".

[Kevy Baby]

Maybe I should prong some chocolate along to enjoy with it.Just be careful where you prong the chocolate: it is illegal in some states.

[JWBear]

Noting that the bottle said "Non-toxic" I did what any 3-year old child would do, I ate some. Or rather, I pour some into the palm of my had and had a taste.

No, you didn't! :eek:

[second class citizen]

Well - after a clean-up of the spectacular spectacular, (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=274009&postcount=2134) it turns out we have some of that "Got Wood" cleanser.

Noting that the bottle said "Non-toxic" I did what any 3-year old child would do, I ate some. Or rather, I pour some into the palm of my had and had a taste.

While there is an unmistakable pleasant almond aroma, it was accompanied with a rather soapy finish, which sadly lingers much longer than the almond.

I'm not in the hospital yet, but as Alex's comment implied, that could be the result of some placebo effect not having done the experiment using a double-blind methodology.

In any event, I believe the soapiness discounts it's use as a cocktail mixer.


Ah, but is that cognac you washed it down with later eco-friendly? And does it leave your furniture looking all luscrous and shiny?

[€uroMeinke]

Ah, but is that cognac you washed it down with later eco-friendly? And does it leave your furniture looking all luscrous and shiny?

No, it leaves white burn marks on the wood - so Got Wood is the better furniture polish, cognac is the better beverage

[Jazzman]

I got down DEEP into the cracks between the wood top slats. Then I turned it over and started with the legs and the underside of the top. My head was getting giddy now with the smell. I took the dirty disgusting looking rag inside to have John smell how wonderful it was.

Wow, that just aroused the hell out of me... Congrats on creating a new fetish; Chore Porn! :D

[Ghoulish Delight]

No, it leaves white burn marks on the wood - so Got Wood is the better furniture polish, cognac is the better beverageAstounding! You should apply for a research grant.

[RStar]

I'm sorry if any of this has already been said, as I only read about half this thread.

Recycling isn't always better for the planet.

Think about it. Do you know where most of the paper pulp ( like newspaper and cardboard) and steel (like cars) are recycled? From what I hear it's Japan. That's a rather large carbon footprint just shipping it there. Does it save greenhouse gasses to recycle it over mining more? I don't know. Even shipping aluminum cans around the country to recycle adds to greenhouse gasses.

I hear tell that electronic waist like old computers go to some third world country where they process them in a manner that pollutes the environment in ways that wouldn't happen in America.

And what do CFL bulbs do to the environment when tossed out compared to incadescent bulbs? I have no idea, but at least you toss out something like 10 incadescents for every one CFL bulb. And LED is even better when it come to life and energy usage. I use a lot of LED and CFLs. I have switch out of incadescents completely.

So what's one to do?

The concept is the three "R"s.

Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle.

However, I'm more for the first two. I still recycle of course. I'm fortunate to live in a house in Garden Grove where I have three trash cans provided by the city. One for land fill, which I only fill once every three weeks usually. One for recycling (green trash can of course!), and one for yard waist.

Now, I recycle my own yard waist for the most part. It goes into mulch and into my yard. This cuts back the tonnage being hauled around the city for processing, and then shipped back out again as mulch for distrabution. I even use some of my newspaper as mulch in the yard (though I'm considering cancelling and getting my news online to save trees and enrgy there also). I pull any weeds, lay down several layers of newspaper and wet them so they stay down. I trim my plants and put it in the lawn and mow it up. Then I put the chopped up plant matter on top. My sandy soil is made rich, its free, saves me time because it keeps out weeds, and it saves water and greenhouse gasses all at the same time. I've been doing this for 20 years.

I reuse when ever I can. I rarely drink bottled water, and I recycle them when I do. At least those are recycled in America (I think) and they take a lot less energy to recycle than aluminum or glass. I wonder why beer isn't sold in PET like soda. I hate beer in aluminum, so I buy it in glass (only a 12 pack a month any way).

But another big way to reduce our greenhouse gas production is to buy locally made and grown items as much as possible. Buying grapes from the central valley of California (for us Californians) is a better choice that if it was shipped in from south america.

I bought indoor/outdoor carpet from Home Depot for my patio that is made from recycled water and soda bottles. I don't know the impact to the environment, but at least it didn't use new crude oil, just energy to chop, spin, and weave it.

Also, when buying furnature and flooring, bamboo is a good way to go. It save hardwood forests from being cut, and is quickly renewable.

Going paperless on bills, paying online. It saves paper and transportation costs.

So, CP, there are other ways to help out other than recycling. The right choices can help in a big way as well.

[Kevy Baby]

Think about it. Do you know where most of the paper pulp ( like newspaper and cardboard) and steel (like cars) are recycled? From what I hear it's Japan. That's a rather large carbon footprint just shipping it there. Does it save greenhouse gasses to recycle it over mining more? I don't know. Even shipping aluminum cans around the country to recycle adds to greenhouse gasses.It's China actually, not Japan. Though there is a fair amount of recycling that takes place here in the states. But as far as the transportation to China is concerned, what makes it economical to send the paper to China for recycling is all of the empty cargo containers already heading there. As long as we have a trade deficit with China, that will remain the case.

But the bigger oddity of paper recycling is that it takes more energy to recycle paper than to use virgin pulp.

[RStar]

But the bigger oddity of paper recycling is that it takes more energy to recycle paper than to use virgin pulp.

Oh, China. I knew it was in the Orient. So recycled paper saves trees, but increases carbon output. Lovely. :rolleyes: At least if the ship was headed back to china it may as well cary something back, huh? I would think it takes more fuel to push a heavy ship as compared to an empty one, though. But I'm not sure.

It's so confusing to know what the best thing for the planet is when it comes to being green.

I agree with Kermit......

It's not easy being green!

[Jazzman]

So recycled paper saves trees, but increases carbon output.

Well, since trees scrub carbon from the air, and carbon dioxide isn't actually a pollutant, then your "equation" is actually pretty beneficial to ol' Mother Gaia.

[RStar]

Well, since trees scrub carbon from the air, and carbon dioxide isn't actually a pollutant, then your "equation" is actually pretty beneficial to ol' Mother Gaia.

True, "greenhouse gasses" are great for the plants. Unless the the weather changes and riseing oceans whipes them out of course. It's the rise in mean temperature that is also of concern, mainly to humans. If, indeed, that is what is happening.

[Jazzman]

If, indeed, that is what is happening.

Great, big, humongous (and not supported by any scientific evidence) "if" there.

[Stan4dSteph]

Great, big, humongous (and not supported by any scientific evidence) "if" there.Too funny.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Too funny.Agreed.


I missed the whole almond cleaner part for some reason. Also, too funny.

I hear tell that electronic waist like old computers go to some third world country where they process them in a manner that pollutes the environment in ways that wouldn't happen in America.This is true, and now when you recycle your haz waste you're supposed to ask where it's processed. Sometimes those third world countries just have landfills of the stuff.

[Kevy Baby]

Oh, China. I knew it was in the Orient. So recycled paper saves trees, but increases carbon output.

Well, since trees scrub carbon from the air, and carbon dioxide isn't actually a pollutant, then your "equation" is actually pretty beneficial to ol' Mother Gaia.Okay, I know I have said this before, so apologies to all who are reading this for the 83rd time.

But the paper made here in the US and in Canada (and many other responsible countries) is made from trees grown much like crops specifically for the purpose of making paper. The trees are scientifically engineered for speedy growth and greater pulp yield. In these managed forests, more trees are actually planted each year then are cut down.

Great, big, humongous (and not supported by any scientific evidence) "if" there.Too funny.Funny, but true.

[Kevy Baby]

I hear tell that electronic waist like old computers go to some third world country where they process them in a manner that pollutes the environment in ways that wouldn't happen in America.Reminds me of this old photo I have (no, I didn't take it):

[RStar]

Okay, I know I have said this before, so apologies to all who are reading this for the 83rd time.

But the paper made here in the US and in Canada (and many other responsible countries) is made from trees grown much like crops specifically for the purpose of making paper. The trees are scientifically engineered for speedy growth and greater pulp yield. In these managed forests, more trees are actually planted each year then are cut down.

Interesting. So the paper industry helps clean the air by being responsible for planting trees. Cool.:snap:

And no, I haven't read that before- so no apology needed. ;)

So, in that case, I wonder if it is possible that the recycling of paper is actually worse for the planet? There is the energy use, water pollution, and transportation. Have there been studies about this kind of thing?

[Alex]

Yes, lots. They're generally easy to find.

Here's an (http://www.slate.com/id/2190164/) overview of the research on recycling paper (note, not direct cite to studies). Recycling paper better than making new paper from newly harvest trees. Recycling paper not so clearly better than incinerating it for energy.

[Kevy Baby]

Here's an (http://www.slate.com/id/2190164/) overview of the research on recycling paper (note, not direct cite to studies).Just one small note on something in the article:
They also point out, correctly, that making virgin paper also involves a host of dodgy chemicals, particularly the bleach used to whiten the end product.Those same chemicals (and more), ESPECIALLY the bleach, are used in the production of recycled paper (with the exception of the paragraph below).

One major difference not differentiated (even by me - my bad) is that the best use of recycled paper is in brown paper products: shopping bags, cardboard, etc. Where it is not good to use is for common office papers, printing papers, etc - basically where a white paper is needed.

[Drince88]

Yea, bleaching chemicals are not good on the environment, and recycled paper really is only good for 'brown' products. Though the EPA has done quite a bit of work in the last 10 years or so on really looking at the entire waste stream of the chemicals - to the point that the air regulations have wastewater limits.

[RStar]

Thanks Alex! I didn't have the time to look it up myself....

I have noticed that a lot of the recycled paper products out there are the cardboard boxes.

[Stan4dSteph]

Funny, but true.Oh please. Get real. Not supported by ANY EVIDENCE? What a load of sh!t. Get your head out of the sand.

[Kevy Baby]

Oh please. Get real. Not supported by ANY EVIDENCE? What a load of sh!t. Get your head out of the sand.Well, there is actually a fair amount of scientific evidence that DOES exist that the earth's temperature rises and falls all on its own. Its been doing that for millions of years (which obviously means the earth is capable of doing it without the need for internal combustion engines or chlorofluorocarbons).

Without going into it too much, I found links here (http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st279), here (http://www.columbia.edu/cu/record/archives/vol21/vol21_iss14/record2114.23.html), and here (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast20oct_1.htm).

Yes, there are those who disagree. I believe that the majority of the change is a result of natural occurrences.

We certainly aren't helping things at all and we SHOULD be doing what we can to reduce our collective carbon footprint (or whatever the label du jour is), but it isn't the situation that Al Gore wants everyone to believe.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yes, there are those who disagree.
That's like saying, "Here are some links to people who have evidence that aliens do exist. There are those that disagree..."

It's the ones that claim NO evidence for human-caused/exacerbated climate change that are in disagreement. The vast majority of the scientific community agrees that there is a preponderance of evidence for the plausibiliy thereof.

There is no evidence that conclusively proves that humans are the cause of current climate change. I will grant you that, as will any reputable scientist in the field. What there is is, A) Overwhelming evidence that the climate IS changing, and B) Overwhelming theoretical and laboratory evidence that human activities can plausibly contribute to those changes. That the byproducts of our use of resources on this planet strongly correlate to the climate changes that are being observed. Enough to stop and say, "You know, seeing as there's a pretty damn good argument that we ARE at least making things worse, maybe we ought to avoid that, and, you know, not doom ourselves to extinction. Just in case."

Are there people who overstate it, or state it in misleading terms? Yes. But that's not a good enough reason to react with, "It's all bullsh*t."

[cirquelover]

Because of the recent mention of Method products I gave them a second look at Target this weekend. I needed dishwashing soap and dishwasher detergent. The dishwasher detergent price was so close to my normal Cascade that I decided to give it a try, and after one wash, I am sold. No odors (I picked the unscented) and as promised on the package, no film. I compared them to some dishes in the cupboard and they weren't nearly as shiny as the ones that just came out of the dishwasher. They also got off the baked on and dried on ikkyness that was on some of the dishes and bowls. 2 :cheers: up for Method dishwasher detergents.

Haven't tried the soap yet, but as my cleaning products run out I'll be giving Method serious consideration when it comes to replacement.


I had to go in search of this post today as I'm tired of my Cascade dishwasher detergent and knew someone was singing the praises of a better, for dishes and environment, soap. I have added it to my shopping list.

Is it only at Target?

Is it still doing a wonderful job for you?

[Morrigoon]

Has anyone tried it with hard water?

We have a BAAAAAD hard water problem, and all my dishes come out nasty cloudy. I always end up rinsing my dishes before using them because of it. I've even tried adding Jet Dry with only a moderate reduction in the milkiness.

I think I'd give my eye teeth to have my dishes start coming out looking actually clean

[Not Afraid]

I'm casting my vote to the knowledge of the Environmental Engineer.

[BarTopDancer]

I had to go in search of this post today as I'm tired of my Cascade dishwasher detergent and knew someone was singing the praises of a better, for dishes and environment, soap. I have added it to my shopping list.

Is it only at Target?

Is it still doing a wonderful job for you?

I wasn't aware of anywhere but Target to find it at since I only buy that type of stuff at Target. Using their site's "where to buy" feature (http://www.methodhome.com/) I discovered it's at a bunch of places. I'm glad you asked because now I can be on the lookout for deals.

I still love the dish soap and dishwasher detergent. The detergent is capsules and they dissolve and wash away clean. I'm finding the bottle of soap to last as long as an equivalent bottle of Dawn.

I'll be trying their other cleaners as replacements are needed.

[Kevy Baby]

I'm casting my vote to the knowledge of the Environmental Engineer.Who would that be?

[Drince88]

Who would that be?
Steph is an Environmental Engineer.

[Stan4dSteph]

I like the Method stuff. The guy who started the company is actually in my graduating class from Stanford. I took some engineering classes with him. I wish I had wood floors. I have some of the cleaner and I love the almond smell. Right now I have the spiced pear and toasted hazelnut hand soaps, the tub and tile cleaner (works great), and the grapefruit all-purpose cleaner. Haven't dried the dish detergent things yet, but I have a box to start when my Cascade runs out.

[RStar]

Has anyone tried it with hard water?

We have a BAAAAAD hard water problem, and all my dishes come out nasty cloudy. I always end up rinsing my dishes before using them because of it. I've even tried adding Jet Dry with only a moderate reduction in the milkiness.

I think I'd give my eye teeth to have my dishes start coming out looking actually clean

I had a bad problem with that. I had switched to a phosphate free dishwasher soap and it caused a horrible white film problem. So I took the insides of the dishwasher apart and cleaned it real well, then ran the dishwasher with just vinegar. That took care of it.

[Betty]

Took the insides of the dishwasher apart? Is there any special knowledge needed for this or is it pretty straightforward?

Ours just does't clean very well - lack of proper rinsing by the kids over time = ew.

[RStar]

Took the insides of the dishwasher apart? Is there any special knowledge needed for this or is it pretty straightforward?

Ours just does't clean very well - lack of proper rinsing by the kids over time = ew.

No, it's a simple thing for the most part. Take out the racks and scrub them, and the walls of the inside of the washer. There is usually a screen on the bottom where the water drains (scrub under the screen and the screen itself), and the water shooting arm thingy (yes, that's a technical term, sorry) unless you can get under it well to clean it. Scrub every inch if you can. Then drain or use a sponge to reomve the water. Then put everything back in and run the diswasher (sans dishes) with a cup or two of white vinagar.

That should do it.

[Betty]

Got ya. I thought you were referring to the drain section or something.