Dungeons & Dragons (or your RPG of choice)

[Pirate Bill]

Any players or DMs here?

I'm a new player.

I've been looking for a fun game or gaming system I can play with my ultra-competitive children (so competitive that fights break out among them whenever we play because one of them is upset that someone else won). I figured cooperative games would help them to learn the fun is in the playing and not in the winning, develop better team skills, and just have more fun together without fighting all the time. :rolleyes:

I've been reading about 4th edition D&D on several blogs and got interested. I looked into GURPS for a little bit. It looks interesting, and being ultra-adaptable certainly has an appeal, but decided that I'd stick with something that has more support in the local gaming stores. A friend invited me and my oldest over to a game of Harn a few months ago. Also a fun game, but from what I gather is really old and doesn't have much of a community.

I started out with a D&D starter kit that had some pre-built characters and a simple adventure with 3 encounters. The kids loved it. They fought a lot less (fights that broke out were about people taking too long to make their move). And there were significantly fewer tears involved than with other games we have played (my daughter almost broke down when her character nearly died).

Since our first try was a success I then had to make more effort to learn the rules and get better so I can DM more home games. I bought the player manual, DM manual, & monster manual. And I see there are still a ton more manuals I need to buy, but those will just have to wait. The main difficulty I had been dealing with through all this was just trying to take a drink from the fire hose of information. Then I learned that my local game store has free weekly game nights with pre-built adventures. I just have to build a character and show up. Awesome!

Last Friday my son and I played our first RPGA sponsored game and had a great time. My character is a human wizard. I'm learning the rules better and will be able to start DMing some home games using the same RPGA adventures (Living Forgotten Realms) soon.

[Moonliner]

Teach them poker. That way you can earn a little walking around money while at the same time teaching them some life lessons.

[Andrew]

In ages long past, a group of friends would gather at the local Denny's lounge every Thursday night for a marathon D&D session. We'd take over a corner booth and, for sustenance on our monster-slaying & treasure-seeking quests, would order groaning platters of victuals. Ah, Moons Over My Hammy, how I miss thee.

This would have been around 1998-1992 or so. I haven't played since that group broke up, but have fond memories.

Of course, no D&D thread would be complete without: Dungeons & Dragons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vChEPj0dXXk) ("Where's the Mountain Dew?")

[Kevy Baby]

I know that Frodo Potter is a big D & D fan, so hopefully Disneyphile lets him know.

I also know he is a big B & D fan, but that is for a different thread.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Dorks! With your dice and silly make believe worlds and monster compendiums and detailed character sheets and your DM guides and your saving throws and your effective hit point increases.

Dorks.

[Pirate Bill]

Of course, no D&D thread would be complete without: Dungeons & Dragons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vChEPj0dXXk) ("Where's the Mountain Dew?")

Awesome! And oh so painful... :D

[JWBear]

Gee... I first played D&D back in 1979 (senior year in HS). I haven't played since... Oh... about 1987/88.

[Andrew]

Dorks! With your dice and silly make believe worlds and monster compendiums and detailed character sheets and your DM guides and your saving throws and your effective hit point increases.

You demonstrate an impressive knowledge of the details of D&D.

[flippyshark]

Here are a couple of games that are not strictly RPGs, but they are very cool and cooperative.

First up, SHADOWS OVER CAMELOT (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/15062). This board game is a jewel - every player is a knight of the round table, and all are working together to defeat the forces of darkness, so it's players VS. the game itself. Every single turn brings new bad events, and the knights must go on quests, together or alone, to turn the tide of evil. Quests are carried out on different areas of several different boards, by traveling and then playing various cards from each knight's hand. Even with everyone's combined efforts, the game is tricky to beat, BUT THEN, there is a fun (though optional) twist. ONE of the loyal knights just might be a traitor, working underhandedly to see that the forces of darkness win. So, a great, relatively easy to learn co-op game, and since the traitor is assigned in a random blind draw, it shouldn't matter to your kids. (They may indeed relish the chance to be the secret lone wolf.) I recommend for 3 or 4 players. Visually, I think it's the prettiest game I have.

A very similar style of play is used in Reiner Knizia's popular LORD OF THE RINGS (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/823) board game. This is also a co-op, players are one of the hobbits from the Fellowship. There are action paths through the entire narrative of the book (along paths of friendship, travel, fighting and hiding) and a simultaneous path along a corruption track. Carrying the ring draws the hobbits inexorably over the corruption line and closer to the Eye of Sauron. Slightly more complex than Camelot - it may be an advantage that in this game there are never traitors. Everyone is in it together here. Four players maximum, and it can take a couple of hours. There are several expansions - I recommend the "Friends and Foes" expansion, because it completes the location boards so that the game goes through the entire narrative line of the novel, and it adds some considerable additional challenge to the game, along with some fun new ways of playing. The whole thing is really pretty, too.

The big enchilada in this category is ARKHAM HORROR (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/15987), based on the fiction of H.P. Lovecraft. Everyone is an "investigator" in 1930s New England, trying to track down clues, weapons, companions and arcane objects to prevent one of the elder gods from awakening. Portals to other dimensions keep opening up all over town, and monsters are shambling (or flying) through the streets. I like this one, because the players are librarians, scientists, students, con men, etc. Just regular folk in cosmically bad circumstances. This one is VERY complex, with a bit of a learning curve - but it is cooperative, and the game itself is just downright evil in how badly it wants you to lose (either the game or your sanity.) There are now about half a dozen expansions available. Even the base game is HUGE and will take up your entire dining room table.

I play all of these, and I sometimes play 3rd edition D&D as well. I like the fact that these board games have a self-limiting time factor, even if they take a few hours. One thing I have always disliked about D&D is the ongoing nature of it. I like closure, and I've never been able to commit to showing up somewhere on any regular basis to participate in an endless campaign.

A couple more quickies - If your kids enjoy D&D and you want to try a board game along those lines, there is DESCENT, which is another gargantuan Fantasy Flight superbox game. It comes with tons of plastic figures and a modular board that can be re-arranged in endless ways. Like D&D, this is guided by a dungeon master, but in this case, the DM is actively, and aggressively, trying to defeat the team of players.

Another game I really enjoy, and it is back out in a nice new edition, is TALISMAN, which is very easy to learn, and is really a Fantasy Lite game. It's great for occasions when you want to play something more casual, without prep. On the up side, it's got a gorgeous board, the events and creatures are ever-shifting, and everyone's fortunes rise and fall in truly riotous fashion. (Plus, people get turned into toads. Totally worth playing for the toad factor!) On the downside, this game is unusually dependent on the luck of the dice - randomness is very high and strategy is low. Also, it is ridiculously competitive, unlike the other games I mentioned. Because it is so casual, this might not matter. I just mention it because it is in the same fantasy vein, and super easy to learn and play.

[lashbear]

Dungeons & DragQueens is teh awesome !!

(that's what we call our version)

[Kevy Baby]

How about Spin the Bottle?

[BarTopDancer]

Every unnecessary roll is a wasted roll.

I don't remember much other than going to my friends house after closing Blockbuster at 1am, a smoke filled room (and not the smoke from tobacco), walking to JITB before it closed and sneaking in to bed before my dad woke up around 7am, but I still have my dice and my character.

[Pirate Bill]

Here are a couple of games that are not strictly RPGs, but they are very cool and cooperative.
Thanks flippyshark. I'll check those games out too.

We also got Pandemic for Christmas last year. Another co-op game. It's pretty fun too.

One thing I have always disliked about D&D is the ongoing nature of it. I like closure, and I've never been able to commit to showing up somewhere on any regular basis to participate in an endless campaign.
That was one of my concerns as well and one of the things that I like about the RPGA Living Forgotten Realms campaign. They have pre-built adventures, so the DM doesn't have to come up with their own. And each adventure can be played in about 4 hours and is like a TV episode: self-contained with closure, but can have consequences that affect the whole world/campaign. You can come in late or miss a few adventures and still enjoy it.

[Moonliner]

Has anyone ever played ""The Settlers of Catan"?

Wired did a writeup on it titled: "Monopoly Killer: Perfect German Board Game Redefines Genre (http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/magazine/17-04/mf_settlers)"

It sounds fairly interesting.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Has anyone ever played ""The Settlers of Catan"? Yes. Good strategy game with enough randomness to make it fun. It typically takes one to two hours to finish a game with two or three people. It can handle up to six, but I hope you are playing while sitting on comfy chairs!

[Disneyphile]

I know that Frodo Potter is a big D & D fan, so hopefully Disneyphile lets him know. I'll tell him today. :) He loves to talk all things D&D.

I also know he is a big B & D fan, but that is for a different thread.Hey! How did YOU know that? ;)

[Prudence]

Even my mom liked Settlers of Catan. Probably because she won the one time she played.

[lashbear]

I also know he is a big B & D fan, but that is for a different thread.
As far as I know, Frodo Potter, Disneyphile, Morrigoon, Gus Gus, and Not Afraid are all into B&D and S&M.




....Binding & Darning, Sewing & Mending. :p



and Kevy's also into S&M... Stand and Model.

[frodo potter]

I do love D&D and starting out with pre-made adventures is the easiest way to begin. While the company stresses the continuing nature of the game is is perfectly possible to run a game with a set end, a fixed goal that will mark the end of the game ie. kill the dragon or save the kingdom and then everyone lives happily ever after.

As far as good systems in general to go with, GURPs is nice because of its adaptability and ease of play also the investment is a lot lower to start because you can really do everything with one book if you have the imagination and time. There are modules for all sorts of time periods, genres, books and movies but it is sometimes hard to find all the materials you want.

White Wolf makes some interesting games (Exalted, Vampire: The Requiem Werewolf: The Forsaken ect.) that are more immersive and story driven than D&D tends to be but are equally well supported at most gaming stores. they do however require quite a bit more work from the DM and a lot more home grown decision making which can slow things down and lead to problems if the players aren't mature and committed since the system requires players to self balance and is relatively easy to "break" (ie. make an over powered character)

Also the last edition of D&D (3.0-3.5) was open source so lots of different companies made games that are based off of it for example there is a game based on Lord of the Rings, Elric of Melabone, Norse mythology, The Wheel of Time, and more.

As far as board games go, Settlers of Katan is a great game as is Carcossone, and Alhambra. All are European games with a lot more interaction and thought than normal American board games.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Even my mom liked Settlers of Catan. Probably because she won the one time she played.The article made it sound like the best thing ever. Next game night, please?

[Pirate Bill]

Also the last edition of D&D (3.0-3.5) was open source... <snip>

What exactly does that mean? I know what open source means, but does this mean that the copyright of 4E prevents other companies from make games that use 4E mechanics/characters/monsters/etc?

[flippyshark]

I do love "Settlers." As long as we're talking Eurogames - I am totally charmed by Agricola (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/31260). (Stress the second syllable - aGRICola - to avoid it sounding like a new soft drink.) Here, you get to be a peasant farmer - build fences, raise cows and sheep, have a family, etc. The sheep and cows are little wooden cubes. It makes me giggle every time I see it.

[Prudence]

Has anyone else here ever played "The Farming Game"?

[Disneyphile]

For those who love Settlers, you might also like Candimir (http://www.bestdanggames.com/cafise.html). :)

It adds a bit of adventure and discovery aspects to it, in addition to resource gathering and building.

[frodo potter]

What exactly does that mean? I know what open source means, but does this mean that the copyright of 4E prevents other companies from make games that use 4E mechanics/characters/monsters/etc?

yes that is what it means. Traditionally each game company uses its own system exclusively though there are some similarities across systems. That is, white wolf uses a D10 system, GURPs uses a point buy system and so on. D&D 3.0 allowed any body to use and adapt its system to any setting so, for example, White Wolf stated a division to write D&D worlds and moduals as did many others.

4E does not allow that, all add-ons will come from Wizards of the Coasts and some updates, rules, and advancement for character classes will only ever be available on-line. (for a monthly fee)

[Pirate Bill]

Got another game tonight that I'm looking forward to. :D

[Pirate Bill]

I guess the DM really can make a huge difference in the game.

The DM last night ran things...I'll just say, less entertaining. I'll cut him some slack though because everybody has a different personality and runs things differently. We also had a full table with some new players (even newer than me) who needed a lot of coaching. So we ended up being really short on time and I think that stressed him a bit.

Now that I'm getting more proficient at understanding the mechanics I'm going to make a better effort at role playing my character to try to pick up the slack from (and maybe help encourage) boring DMs.

[flippyshark]

Yeah, a good DM really makes a game soar, and a bad DM can create confusion, tedium and aggravation. I recall a game from my distant past in which the players essentially mutinied the hapless (and inexperienced) DM and appointed a new one.