GRRRRR- this crap pisses me off

[Nephythys]

Link (http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/military_board_recommends_disc.html)

If someone has a nature and drive to serve their fellow man, to possibly lay down their life for their country, to leave their home and loved ones to serve so that we may have freedom and peace- THEN I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS WHETHER THEY ARE GAY OR NOT!!!!

Gays should be allowed to serve- openly and honestly-because their duty, sacrifice and honor is NO LESS valuable and worthwhile-than their straight counterparts.

GRRRRRRRRRRR:mad:

(posted here because I can't post in the Parking Lot....please don't move it away. Either let it stay here or let me scream in the Parking Lot!)

GRRRRRRRRRRR:mad:

[Alex]

Well, to play devils advocate, you do realize I hope that they're gay?

[Chernabog]

Well it's a good thing that Obama has issued an executive order to.... oh wait.

It's a good thing that Obama gave a cuddly speech and offered cocktails!

[Nephythys]

Well, to play devils advocate, you do realize I hope that they're gay?

huh?:confused:

[Alex]

Never mind, it was a reference to something I saw (can't remember where; Colbert maybe?) with one person offering very persuasive arguments for why gays should serve in the military and the other person essentially responding "yes, that's all well and good, but they're gay."

[innerSpaceman]

posted here because I can't post in the Parking Lot....please don't move it away.
I have a better idea. Move the long-standing Prop 8 thread from the Parking Lot into the Daily Grind.

It's been nearly 6 months since there was any inappropriate communications in that thread. Keeping it in the Parking Lot makes it seem as if gay rights discussions are too controversial by their very nature and/or should not be read by non-members lest anyone get the wrong impression of the LoT.

That kinda reeks of mousepad-think. I'm sure that's not the motivation for keeping in there on the LoT ... rather, I'm pretty sure it's just that no one's bothered to move it back where it belongs because no one's really thought about it.

Well, now I'm asking that be considered.

Thanks.

[Andrew]

OT and I suppose I will regret asking, but ... huh?
That kinda reeks of mousepad-think.

[wendybeth]

Well, the thread started out there, so if you have issues take it up with the OP. I don't care where it's at, myself- but there was no censorship involved with regards to the placement of the thread.

[Alex]

Edited to remove origional.


Never mind. Me has undeveloped reading comprehension skills.

[Nephythys]

I have a better idea. Move the long-standing Prop 8 thread from the Parking Lot into the Daily Grind.

It's been nearly 6 months since there was any inappropriate communications in that thread. Keeping it in the Parking Lot makes it seem as if gay rights discussions are too controversial by their very nature and/or should not be read by non-members lest anyone get the wrong impression of the LoT.

That kinda reeks of mousepad-think. I'm sure that's not the motivation for keeping in there on the LoT ... rather, I'm pretty sure it's just that no one's bothered to move it back where it belongs because no one's really thought about it.

Well, now I'm asking that be considered.

Thanks.

In which case I petition for access to both- because I want to scream and yell about this.

[Strangler Lewis]

Funny story about how out-of-control heterosexuality killed my uncle during World War II. The set-up is how, like my father, he escaped Germany as a refugee, coming over here by himself on a ship as part of the American equivalent of the kindertransport program. When the war started, he was drafted and served in the Pacific. He survived that and was stationed in the Pacific as part of the army of occupation. One night, two drunken American servicemen set fire to a geisha house to drive out a couple of girls they had a beef with. They started shooting into the gathering crowd. One of the bullets hit my uncle and killed him.

Okay, maybe that's not so funny. The funny part is how the story evolved as it was told to me as I grew up:

"Your uncle died in the war."
"Your uncle was killed in a USO station."
"Your uncle was killed in a USO station by drunken American soldiers."
Then the current version.

The events were somewhat notable because the two soldiers were sentenced to hang but President Truman commuted their sentences to life in prison, an event that merited a paragraph in the New York Times. I'm not sure, but I think Truman did this because the two soldiers were black, and he didn't want the memory of a recent hanging over a poor Jewish refugee to gum up his plans to integrate the army.

One of these days, I've got to research that assumption at the Truman library. I would hope I'd learn that the rest of the story was that my uncle was actually running out of the geisha house. From what I understand, it would not have been out of character.

[Stan4dSteph]

OT and I suppose I will regret asking, but ... huh?We're all homophobic assholes!

[Nephythys]

Edited to remove origional.


Never mind. Me has undeveloped reading comprehension skills.

I referred to the Parking Lot only due to the fact that I was not discussing political aspects- I was just yelling about it at this point.

I am all for this moving to the Daily Grind-but I want to be able to access it.

[Alex]

No, no. Everything was perfectly clear. I just had a brain fart and wrote something that made no sense at all.

[Gn2Dlnd]

Whether or not it's been months since anything inappropriate was posted in the Prop. 8 thread doesn't enter into it. By moving the thread, a casual visitor to this site, looking up, say, references to a favorite product, can then access postings that should remain in-family. To someone reading them for the first time, all posts are current.

[innerSpaceman]

Well, the thread started out there, so if you have issues take it up with the OP. I don't care where it's at, myself- but there was no censorship involved with regards to the placement of the thread.
wendy, I could be mistaken I suppose. But I believe the thread was moved there after some argument broke out.

Perhaps I'm confusing it. After Prop 8 there were three or four threads on the subject, and this one came later. Perhaps it was indeed posted in the Parking Lot after earlier ones had been moved there.


Andrew .... I was told by Todd that anything remotely political posted on mousepad had to be relegated to their Parking Lot equivalent so that it could not be read by non-members. He didn't want anything non-happy-pappy to be part of mousepad's public image.

I'm not sure if that policy still exists. I haven't been back since I quit over that policy.

[Alex]

You're saying MousePad when you mean MiceChat. MousePad does not have any forums that require membership to view.

[Nephythys]

Micechat-

-but I did not start this to diss other sites. I also only posted it in the Lounge because some years back I was less inclined to play nice in those forums-so I do not have access to them. Lately I have been wanting to discuss these issues- and have not been able to.

This one popped my cork though-

If it stays here- great- let's talk about it. If not, I want to still be able to access and add to it.

[Andrew]

Andrew .... I was told by Todd that anything remotely political posted on mousepad had to be relegated to their Parking Lot equivalent so that it could not be read by non-members. He didn't want anything non-happy-pappy to be part of mousepad's public image.

You're saying MousePad when you mean MiceChat. MousePad does not have any forums that require membership to view.

Alex is correct; while political (and any other non-Disney or non-vacation planning) discussions are in the Lounge, it is a public forum that anyone can read (logged in or not) and Google can index. And Todd has no presence on MousePad.

[/OT]

[innerSpaceman]

Whether or not it's been months since anything inappropriate was posted in the Prop. 8 thread doesn't enter into it. By moving the thread, a casual visitor to this site, looking up, say, references to a favorite product, can then access postings that should remain inTo someone reading them for the first time, all posts are current.

But if wendy's right, and that isn't the thread that got nasty, then there's no harm in moving it where it's more appropriate.


Doesn't much matter. Prop 8 blowback is pretty old news. I'll just start a general gay rights thread in the Daily Grind and see if it sticks.

Neph's thread just reminded me how quasi-insulting I find it having to post any gay rights thoughts in the Parking Lot.

[Nephythys]

*sigh*



Back to the OP-
Ya know what makes it worse (if it can be) is that this guy was in the Middle East-and frankly is in more danger there...at least as far as physical harm. They execute gays over there (in some places)-and yet he is willing to put himself in harms way in so many ways to serve his country- and his country would kick him out for being gay.

Lame...and oh so wrong.

[Snowflake]

I thought The Parking Lot was to keep spiders and such from trolling stuff, as well as keeping the non-swank discussions our of the swank threads.

[Ghoulish Delight]

If you'd like us to reconsider our policies, might I suggest that "I'm lobbing this out here. Y'all either deal with it or do what I ask," isn't the best way to go about it. A PM discussing it would have been a nice place to start.

No decision has been made yet. I'll tell you right now that my inclination is to continue all of our current policies, moving this thread into either Daily Grind or Parking LoT.

As for the other prop 8 thread, as Gn2dlnd points out, the content of the thread remains in there, whether it's actively being discussed or not. I suppose we could split the thread off. Or someone can just start a new one back in Daily Grind.

[Nephythys]

I was not aware this would cause such a problem- it is not the first political/opinion discussion in this forum and given that I wanted to bring it up with this community and do not have access to those forums this seemed harmless.

I am not demanding a change to your policies and would not have thought this needed a PM discussion to discuss the topic.

Do as you need to-I am just sorry that if you move it I can't join in on a discussion I felt passionate enough to discuss in the first place.

Cheers.

[innerSpaceman]

Oi, yes, with apologies to mousepad, I meant Mice Chat of course. I in no way equate the two. Sorry for the brain freeze.

[innerSpaceman]

I'm not demanding a change to the policies either.

I'm just wondering where to start my new gay rights thread. Neph seems perfectly able to discuss such things maturely, so I hesitate to place it where it seems most to belong, namely, the Daily Grind ... because it would seems lame to start a thread inspired by Nephy that she can't participate in.

[innerSpaceman]

For my third post in a row, another apology.

I'm sorry if I seem to be derailing to LoT business rather than discuss the topic at hand. It's just that in my circles, and to me personally, Dan Choi's story is played out and I've got so little left to say about it.


I've met him a few times. He's a wonderful guy, and an inspiring public speaker. He double-entendred me once, and I felt such a gay bond with him, hahaha.

He was giving a version of the same speech twice in one day (the day of the Supreme Court decision). At a smaller daytime rally in East L.A., he gave such an impassioned and lengthy presentation. At the huge rally in West Hollywood, he shortened it quite a bit.

After he came off the stage, I told him I enjoyed it .... but I prefer the longer one. He replies, "Yeah, I've heard that about you."


:cool:

[Gn2Dlnd]

That's what she said!

had to

[Nephythys]

For my third post in a row, another apology.

I'm sorry if I seem to be derailing to LoT business rather than discuss the topic at hand. It's just that in my circles, and to me personally, Dan Choi's story is played out and I've got so little left to say about it.

:cool:

ahh, of course you would know more than I....I just saw the article today. A few weeks ago I vented to Cherny and GC about the DOMA issue in PM.

I do have a story- I spoke with the woman who won the biggest judgement against the company she worked for (in her state) because they harassed and demoted her and then fired her for being gay. They have made it impossible to find a new job because people are reluctant to hire her due to the publicity. Her relationship with her son has suffered as well.....I wish her all the very best. Her battle was huge and I hope that in the end she finds justice and peace-

[innerSpaceman]

That no one can really remember how the gay threads got to the Parking Lot in the first place is reason enough, imo, to move the surviving one out of there.

I wasn't the OP on that one ("Fallout"). It started with S.Maniac recounting how his game night had fallen apart and wondering about what other personal fallout people had experienced. Hardly seems like Parking Lot material to me, but I can't claim to know what was on his mind at the time.

In any event, though my memory's not the best by any stretch, I believe one or more of the preceding Prop 8 threads got moved to the Parking Lot, and perhaps one reason those didn't survive the transition were because of some nastiness within.


I just think it's time we pulled the ongoing discussion out of there. I started a thread in the Lounge ... though I suppose the Daily Grind might have been more appropriate. It's a toss-up. I've always regretted, for example, that gay marriage ... which should be about love ... is considered all about politics.

But I admit ... Neph's supportive philosophy expressed in this thread led me to err on the side of putting the new thread where she'd be allowed to participate. This very thread itself is arguable political. Don't Ask Don't Tell is a government policy about the U.S. Military.


Heheh, Keith Olbermann said Obama was "goddamn wrong" about his stance on DADT. Um, yeah, 75% of the American People think the policy should be repealed. Obama says he agrees. He can stop the losses (over 260 since he took office alone) with the stroke of a pen. I call that cowardly and craven.


When Eisenhower integrated the armed services, only 12% of Americans were in favor of that. The right thing to do is the right thing to do.

[€uroMeinke]

I don't want to move anything in a non-public forum to a public one as people posted with the expectation of privacy. I suppose we could go back, review the thread, check with all the posters to get their okay to move it, but frankly I'm too lazy to do that and don't like the precedent it sets.

I'm fine with leaving things where they are now as "gay" is not a political party and I'm not one of those reductionists who see everything as political (even if it is) - but if things get unswanky in our discourse with each other, then I have no problem with closing or moving threads.

[innerSpaceman]

Of course, it would be silly to comb through a long thread like that for any purpose. I just got so used to posting in it for everyday gay that I forgot it was in the Parking Lot.

It's become the defacto gay thread, so we'll just see if my endeavor at encouraging a non-Parking Lot newfacto gay thread gains any traction. I'll just post my gay stuff in the new gay and see what happens.


I wasn't seriously suggesting we take the actual thread out of the Parking Lot ... just move the discussion out of there going forward, if that happens to work out.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Nephy- I'm with you. I've never gotten a good reason why gay marriage should lessen or negate my marriage. I think Britney Spears did more damage than gays possibly could.

I think it's stupid that we kick gays out of the military, in these days of declining recruiting and increasing need. We lose not just numbers, but highly trained members of our military for no good reason. Stupid stupid stupid.

I saw a Twitter post that Lt. Dan Choi has indeed been discharged/fired. Stupid stupid stupid.

We're all just people. Equal rights. Marriage equality. Loyalty should be rewarded not punished. Are we civilized or are we not? Come on.