So do you then believe that the major reason for 9/11 is our support of Israel? Perhaps you could include our miltary presence in Saudi Arabia.

Until Israel declared its independence, the Jews were actually living in the region quite peacefully, having legitametly purchsed land there.

That doesn't contradict my fuzzy historical memory, though.

Nor does it contradict Alex's supposition that the whacko minority wasn't really an issue until they declared statehood.

....and a good chunk of South Eastern Europe too; right up to the Gates of Vienna if my memory is accurate.

True (Speaking to GD's last comment)

ISM, do you think Spain should give up the land the Muslims want?

How about the re-grab some Mexicans want to do here in the US? I know of a few Native Americans that would be interested in some extra land for their casinos as well.....

Israel is a country, it exists and isn't going away. Much like us. So, Hezbollah and Hamas and all the other militants had better resign themselves to either a life of nothing but war, or peace. The third option is too terrible to consider, but it bears saying: Israel belongs to the nuclear club.

They've already resigned themselves to the war option. Now everybody else has to decide how to cope with that.

I'm not so sure about Spain, but note how it's the jews in this debate here that are arguing for Israel to pack up and leave.

I guess I'm not claiming any moral superiority to argue ... but there is this: beyond the uselessness of the fight, the endless violence and death, the near-fated ultimate outcome of defeat ... there's the fact that, as a jew, it breaks my heart to have Israel become so much like her vile enemies in trying to defeat her enemies.