Sulfur.

While I agree with the early points he made I must admit that I've just been assuming that since most of Tref's other posts are some form of performance art that the posts in this thread have been as well. But whether true or just spinning a yarn, I know many people who gain a lot of comfort from the strength and certainty displayed in such a style. If religion is simply the instinctive impule to find answers where only uncertainty is seen, then not allowing any uncertainty in the answers will be appealing to many.

I can see how some people would find comfort in being told what to do, even in a forceful tone, but I'm surprised to find Tref among them.

Regarding Benedict's statement being of surprise to anyone except non-Catholics: that's just not true. A large wave of modern Catholics have been taught that a person has the right to practice the religion that they believe in, and we are not meant to condemn. I came from a pack of (somewhat more) open-minded Catholics, and we were happy for anyone who was able to connect with their spirituality in any way that helped them and helped those around them. While, yes, we were taught that Catholicism was built on the rock of Peter, the roots from which we sprung... we were not taught that those who did not believe in Christ were going to hell.

For that matter, my diocese sang a blessing that had two verses, which started:
"May the lord bless and keep you, may he let his face shine upon you..."
and
"May the lord bless and keep you, may she let her face shine upon you..."

Certainly I have had major problems with some of the edicts of the church and some of the crises that were ignored (from the association of the church during WWII, to the cowardly action that led to the abuse of children, to my first-hand experience with the treatment of a wounded woman outside of the Vatican walls just two weeks ago.)

But my preference (in most situations, really) is to appreciate the good around me. The influence and guidance of those who I watched treat others kindly because it is a good thing to do (and not just because it "reserves a spot in heaven.") Religion may be an opiate for some masses, but for others, it is merely a rock upon which to lean for strength in times of need. And whether that religion is Catholicism or any other sect of Christianity, or Islam, or Judaism, or the Church Of Walt, for that matter... their faith IS the one true faith. To them.

A Confession.
 

Clearly I have said too much.

Life is a learning process, folks. You can stay sheltered all your life and read about things that happen, or you can step outside be part of things that happen. I am not saying anything new, right? Well, I like being part of things that happen, but there is only so much time in the day. I have chanted with Krishna's down Powell Street in SF, I have been locked in a room by a cult and asked to levitate an ash tray ... I could go on and on. I am not saying that I attend church for a lark. I would never do anything for a lark. I do it to understand and discover. To paraphrase George Harrison -- there is nothing so important that you can do in life, then the search for God. I believe that. Life is too brief and an eternity of darkness is too unsettling for me to ignore.

I have a rule -- keep your cards close to your chest. And I have done that, more or less, for the years I have been on this site. It is not performance art. It has never been. This is me. For that reason I am not an immediately likable person. But whatever you may think of me and my posts, I do not have patience to dissuade you otherwise, either good or bad. That has always been a fault of mine.

Anyways ...

Oh the cult thing sounds like a juicy story... I do hope you'll tell it some day!

Tref, I just want you to know that you're special, just the way you are. It's how we like you.

Not immediately likable?! Balderdash. I have always loved your posts, and your presence here. I missed you when you've been away. You bring such fun to this place.

If my comments insulted you in any fashion, or if you think I think less of you for your religious convictions, I sincerely apologize, as it was not my intention. I would love to hear more of why you feel the way you do, but I understand if you do not want to discuss it. As long as you enjoy your own religious practices, and they are a source of comfort and inspiration to you, helping you lead a better life, then by all means! :)

If you don't wish to continue on this vein, I understand, though I'd love to hear more, and only question you because I'd love to hear your perspective. My post regarding finding you among those that enjoy being told what to do was simply a reaction to Alex's post. I guess I wasn't clear enough in saying "if Alex is right, then it says this about Tref, which would surprise me, and I want to hear what Tref has to say further."

Anyway, over explained, carry on. :)

(To the tune of "Spiderman")

*hem, hem*

Nazi Pope, Nazi Pope
Master race's one last hope!

Nazi Pope, Nazi Pope
Gays and Jews, turn them into soap!

Look out -- here comes a-Nazi Pope!

:D

OK, so we know where Cherny is spending the afterlife...

Since this thread has all ready taken a few weird turns, here is another I thought worth noting -- the first Hindu prayer said in the Senate. That it was interupted by three lone Christians is not really news, so ignore the media's attempt to make it as such.

I know of the Hindu religion only through the Krishna's in Berkeley, CA. It is a beautiful religion and if you are ever in Berkeley and want to eat the best food in the world -- for free -- go to the Temple. There is no preaching, leaning over your shoulder, etc. In fact, they probably won't talk to you at all. Just hand you a plate and lead you to a long, long table of some of the healthiest & tastiest food you've ever eaten. I really believe it to be the best food I have ever had.

Though its traditional Indian food, the tastes are very simple. They are not allowed to use the spices used by most Indian restaurants.

There is a Temple in the Venice area, as well, though they will charge you a small fee to eat in their cafe. I think Blueerica can back me up on how good it is ...

If you go, tell me, I just might meet you there.

Free Sunday feast

Govinda's
3764 Watseka Avenue, just off Venice Blvd
310-836-1269; Temple Number: 310-836-2676
Hours: Monday to Saturday 11 am to 3 pm, 5 pm to 8:30 pm
Closed Sunday for feast that begins at 5:30 pm

Pure Vegetarian Indian and American. Many of the dishes contain dairy. Juice Bar

Managed by the Hare Krishnas. The food is great and very reasonably priced. Recommended. Laid-back, casual, spiritual atmosphere. Has a good Indian Gift shop upstairs selling books, clothing, incense, religious items, deities and gift items.

Other Info: Cafeteria style, take-out, catering. Non-smoking. Reservations not necessary. Accepts MC, VISA.

Directions: This place is located next to a Hare Krishna Temple, just off Venice Blvd, at the border of Culver City and Los Angeles. Between Motor & Robertson. From I-10, take the Robertson Blvd/Culver City exit, then go southeast on Exposition Blvd (or Robertson Blvd) a few blocks, at Venice Blvd turn right and go a half-mile, at Watseka Ave turn right and this place is in the second building down on the right. Street parking.