The decision has to come from within. However, it certainly helps to know that there are options for help out there. I think that is the advantage of having court ordered AA a part of the sentence for a DUI. At least there is some exposure to where there is help available.

I've known quite a few people who have gotten sober as a result of a "nudge from the judge". But, there are always the people who are not done yet. As well as those who will never be done. Such is the difficulty of change.

I know for a fact that I used to sit in meetings and say "That won't happen to me". And, there were things that never DID happen to me. I never got a DUI. Yet........

There are a lot of "yets" that didn't happen, I could've kept digging my own hole, it was getting pretty deep and difficult to see out of, but I sure could've kept digging to see what other "treasures" I could've found. But, what for? For me, it wasn't about "hitting bottom" but about putting down the shovel.

Well, if you don't WANT what they have to offer than the program won't do much good. YOU have to be willing - which usually means that you, yourself are tired of living with the results and effects of the behaviors of others. I don't know much about sex addiction, effects and treatment but I can imagine that. living with a sex addict, would skew how a person looks at and reacts to sex.

True, assuming that you lived with them.
I did, for the first 7.5 years of my life. Before they had the addiction. never lived with them again.

They wouldn't respect our boundaries so we cut them out. We set them, discussed them, and they ignored them. We were treated as if we had a problem, 'uptight'. Whatever.

I did not want to sit around and talk to other people about what was going on because I knew what I would put up with and what I would not. But, yes, NA, people accept too much. Family does not have the right to fun all over you and you don't have to take whatever they dish out.

A sad example of family just turning the other cheek to alcohol abuse~
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...1m15fatal.html

Some family was very upset with our decision to not allow them time with our kids unless they were sober. Sleepovers? Trips to the store? No way. I have some horrible stories from a nephew whose mother allowed such visits. More than what everyone knows, like, being taken home in a police car when the adult was hauled off to jail on a DUI {luckily he was a smart kid, young, and he could say how to get home}.....after tell the mom that he was at our house {a safe place} but instead was off, oh well...you all probably have similar stories....

I regret using the word scam. I do think, however, that AA and 12-step in general is broadly misrepresented as more effective than it is and when it does work for an individual I think the cause is misassigned (the former is more of an objective statement the latter more of a personal metaphysical view).

I do not mean to suggest that anybody who feels it can help them stop drinking shouldn't try it.

I strongly suspect that if we were all sitting on couches in living rooms this is a conversation I would have been able to have without pissing anybody off or hurting any feelings but I am apparently not capable of it in written form.

So I'll stop trying and take my licks.

===

Having nothing to do with 12-step/AA.

iSm, I think the tobacco number is a bit not like the others since it simply talks about users and not addiction, not every smoker is addicted (though the rate is higher than for just about anything else). If the same were done with alcohol, according to a page at USDH the alcohol number would be 110 million. No real number is given caffeine but I'm guessing even when talking addiction (not usage) it way outnumbers smoking (though the negative impacts of caffeine usage are much less than the other drugs on the list).

Maybe you can find the studies to reveal the stats ... but in my experience, 96 out of a hundred smokers are addicted to tobacco. I think the number of users pretty much represents the number of addicts.

I could be wrong. This is based just on everybody I've ever known who smokes or smoked cigarettes (teehee, except me).

Yup. That's sometimes what it takes. I got that from my mother and evil sister. "I" was the one with the problem. But, their own thoughts are beyond my control. They are free to think and believe whatever they want. There really is only so much a person can do other than accept that you have no control, drop the baggage associated with it and move on to better things.

Great relationships are so much more fulfilling than fu<ked up ones. I don't have much time for the fu<ked up ones any more.

Some people go to the meetings, finally look for similarities in people's testimony instead of differences, and come to a realization that they do indeed want and need help. (this happens sometimes with the "nudge from the judge" scenario... the legal system does not FORCE anyone to participate, only to attend a meeting and get their court card signed). AA may help an alcoholic achieve sobriety only if the person wants to get sober. It is said in AA that the ONLY requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

"Working the program" will NOT help a non-addict. (Though being court-ordered to attend meetings may help open their eyes a little bit and allow them to stop some potentially destructive behaviour before it crosses the invisible line of addiction).

I'm gonna stop program-talk tho in this thread since I'm done with justifying or defending it. (Somehow I feel like I am on a gay-day thread, which only serves to make gay people feel less-than by having to justify certain things)

Anyway, drugs are bad, m'kay? ;)

Alcoholism is a disease. Cancer is a disease. Chemo doesn't always work. People die from cancer that has resisted treatment every day. But, that doesn't mean that treatment shouldn't be sought nor revisited if it doesn't work the first time. I look at AA very similarly.

And denial is not a river in Egypt. ;)