She was referring to the same guy with the Israeli accent as I was talking about.

Oh, sorry. I guess I needed to read back further. :blush:

That's what I get for just jumping in.

LOL I'll try and research better next time. :D

My take on this and it underlies why I don't think it is a plothole that the kids just weren't taken to wherever Cobb was.

1. Everybody believes Cobb murdered Mal (the question would be why Caine's character is so certain he didn't; yes, he apparently works in the same field as Cobb and so would understand the plausibility of his story but it would still be pretty far-fetched, I'd think).

2. He has no choice but to either go to prison or go on the run. He chooses to run, with the extremely inappropriate impetus of his lawyer.

3. He doesn't want his kids with him on the lam, especially since to support himself he'll be engaging in illegal activities that has him hopping the globe and where failure apparently gets you killed (as is suggested happened to the first architect and would happen to Cobb if he were caught). So not a great environment for kids.

4. Presumably it would be theoretically possible to arrange a visit with the kids but that isn't what he wants, especially while under the cloud of suspicion for the murder (not to mention his own guilt issues that even if he didn't throw her off the ledge it is his fault she was on it).

5. Also presumably, whoever has custody of the kids believes he killed Mal. Why would that person (especially if that person is Mal's mother, apparently) be willing to arrange a meeting?

6. We have no idea what the nature of the single hyper-effective call made by Saito was. However, it couldn't have just been something that would get him through customs but actually somehow did something to clear his name (maybe they produced videotape of Mal jumping on her own; maybe they framed someone else).

7. In clearing his name presumably grandma is also convinced of his innocence and so now a return home (rather than just entry into the country) isn't an issue.

That chain makes perfect sense to me as reasonable in the face of what was presented without Nolan having to spell it all out.

I'm on board for almost all of that, except...This would make sense except that it's instantaneous.

Only the customs part had to be instantaneous. Saito makes 1 call, the guy he call then calls his man inside customs to have Cobb's name pulled out of whatever database would prevent him from getting through customs/alert law agencies that he'd arrived, then goes about doing the harder work of clearing his name with the pertinent authorities.

Well, not necessarily instantaneous as we don't know how long it was between when the call was made and when Cobb walked into the house. It could have been anywhere from an hour (assuming the call was made right before landing and Cobb lives near LAX) to the better part of a day (since the time experienced in the Level 1 dream was less than a day that would be less than two hours in reality of a 10 hour flight and then for all we know Cobb and Caine left LAX and drove to the family's home in Yreka).

And Saito may very well have spent the last three months putting in place all the pieces so that they could be knocked over very quickly. Maybe 30 seconds after his call, Saito's agents were in Grandma Mal's living room showing her the proof of how he was innocent, other agents were at the sheriff's office showing the proof to them with a promise that Cobb would be in on Monday to answer any final questions, and a third agent was quickly changing the necessary databases so that Cobb could get in the country without hassle.

I have no idea what was done but, if we accept as given that the last scenes are reality and not dream, then whatever Saito did had to be completed (though not necessarily started) very quickly and it had to be more than just getting him past ICE since returning to America does him no good if he then immediately gets arrested by the local sheriff for murder. Actually getting into the country would never have been a problem, it was the murder warrant that was the problem.

If it was all a dream, then yeah, none of it has to make internal sense. If it wasn't a dream then I don't think it was necessary for Nolan to spell out each of the steps I listed since they are, to me, implicit in what was shown to be happening and nothing shown, as least in relation to this, is a giant plothole (at least to me).

Not a bad construction, but why is that any more of a valid read than mine, which is that the father-in-law sent someone in to Cobb's subconscious to find out what he did to Mal?

That also makes perfect sense to me as reasonable in the face of what was presented without Nolan having to spell it all out.

It isn't necessarily more valid. As admitted Nolan has intentionally left it ambiguous and so I can't argue against anybody taking the other side of that ambiguity.

As I've said, I personally feel that your view of the movie makes it a less satisfying experience. Obviously not the case for you and it is great that we can both have entirely different preferences and still find it a good movie.

What I'm arguing against is that the image GD posted is a giant plothole that provides additional credence to the "it's all a dream" argument as I don't think that it is a plothole even if you accept the reality of the presented narrative. It just isn't spelling out every implication of what is being shown and I like that; especially in a movie that already bordered on too much exposition.

What Alex said. And I didn't post it because I necessarily agree with it...I just found it an amusing set of images.

Because really, is it that hard to accept that, for someone on the international lamb after being convincingly accused of murdering his wife/mother of his children, it would be a wee bit difficult to see said children? Like Alex said, that hardly seems like a plot point that requires a whole lot of expounding upon to convince me.

Understood.

In your scenario, your first point in your chain questions why Caine's character doesn't believe that Cobb was responsible for Mal's death - but the revelations in the story (which are abetted by Caine's character) show that he actually is at least indirectly responsible. It might not be a plothole, but it's a logical loop that I have a hard time swallowing.