The faked acts of Hostel II are much more extreme than the real act of Bondage Babes 23. I can understand that eroticism and titillation of restraint and non-permanent pain. I don't see the potential eroticism and titillation (or worse, simple entertainment) of watching a woman masturbate in a tub full of the blood draining from her naked evisceration victim hanging from the ceiling.

Yes, movies like Hostel II aren't literal porn, but I'm not the one who crated the phrase to describe the genre.

Yeah, I suspected that was the scene you were talking about, Alex. We did the site for the movie, and, oy vey, that scene...

I wasn't referring to fluff like Bondage Babes 23. I'm talking about the real hard core stuff you find in some real BDSM porn - especially in gay BDSM. Stuff that would make most fans of the mainstream "torture porn" run screaming.

The scene you described above is not just fake, but so outrageous and over the top that, while unpleasant to watch, it just reinforces its fakeness.

I could describe things I've seen that would make every male here cross their legs and squirm. And it's some thing done for real - live - and on film (on a willing subject). And with real blood, real screams. That, my friend, is real torture porn.

I doubt it, I've seen it all too. I've seen a penis get trifurcated without use of anaesthetic and plenty of very extreme bondage and mutilation stuff. Yes, that is real porn. And the faked acts in movies are more extreme than them in what they present, regardless of whether that very extremeness just highlights that they are staged. I'm not sure what it is we appear to be arguing about.

But as I said I'm not the one who began the use of "torture porn" in reference Hostel II style horror movies. If you feel that real torture porn is somehow being devalued or insulted I'll stop using it.

And my original question remains, are the movies involved in this film festival simple blood and guts horror films in the vein of Hostel II or do they show some inclination towards a more classic literary style of horror?

I don't think there's anything wrong with your term, Alex. Just like films like Elizabeth are referred to as textile porn because the richness of the costuming is one of the main draws, I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to refer to blood-and-guts horrof flicks as torture porn.

For the record:

• No interest in horror/slasher flicks (Friday the 13th, et. al.)
• No interest in BDSM films (light or heavy)

And personally, I believe one should never argue semantics with Alex.

That depends on how you're using the word never.

I don't give a damn if you never look at them: I gave you mojo for that post anyways.

Cool!: The Thames Barrier up. Not Cool: :( Major flooding expected along the North Sea coast.

I just think it's silly to use the term (regardless of its origins) when what it's used to describe is neither torture nor porn... And that which can legitimatly be described using the term does exist. But, whatever. YMMV.

You'd think I would learn by now.... ;)