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-   -   Tookie Williams denied clemency (http://74.208.121.111/LoT/showthread.php?t=2553)

Not Afraid 12-12-2005 05:22 PM

I've seen quite a few people and animals die and it always looks so peaceful. But, I've never seen anyone executed. I really don't have a need to witness one either.

I go back and forth on the death penalty. I don't see the purpose as a deterrant nor as a punishment. I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life in jail.

I do have to admit that I am fascinated with the guillotine as a mechanism of death. Go figure.

wendybeth 12-12-2005 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Afraid
I've seen quite a few people and animals die and it always looks so peaceful. But, I've never seen anyone executed. I really don't have a need to witness one either.

I go back and forth on the death penalty. I don't see the purpose as a deterrant nor as a punishment. I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life in jail.

I do have to admit that I am fascinated with the guillotine as a mechanism of death. Go figure.

I've a book you would probably love, then. It's called 'Legacy of Death', and it's about the Sanson family of executioners in France. Great book.

Betty 12-12-2005 05:56 PM

I heard on KFI that years after he claimed he was reformed, he wrote a book that was dedicated to a list of "bad people"... people that have been convicted of murders, including those of police, a judge, etc. They reasoned, why would a person who was reformed, dedicate a book to 10 (it was around 10) people that all committed heinous acts.

If he is innocent, he's had how long to go through appeals? Long enough to have them researched and heard I would think. It's a sad thing if an innocent man is killed.

On the other hand, he's been convicted of murdering several people. Those are the children and parents that will never have the chance to appeal anything now will they. They never had the option of a last meal - a chance to tell their loved ones how much they loved them - a chance to say goodbye. Tookie has never admitted to the crimes - never apologized.

Perhaps if he had shown some sort of remorse for what he'd done... not just in being a gang member, but in taking the lives of innocent people, I would somehow feel he deserved death less.

innerSpaceman 12-12-2005 05:57 PM

I'm surprised that Arnold denied clemency. He seems to be running so far away from the Bush Republican brush he feels unfairly painted with (appointment of lesbo liberal democrate Kennedy as his chief of staff being the prime example) that I thought he'd let Williams off as part of his recent backpedling political strategy.

I am against the death penalty under any circumstances, would not want to witness an execution, and would never be able to convict someone of guilt if death were to be the penalty. It's eye-for-an-eye biblical barbarism as far as I'm concerned, and proven to be no deterent whatsover. Heh, even if it were, people's lives are not meant to be taken so as to set an example of warning. Bah on that. Add in the racism, the wrongully convicted up the wazoo, and the fact that - well - it's wrong (is there some reason the U.S. is alone with, who? Korea, Iran and their ilk as still having the d.p. in this day and age?), and you have 50 more reasons than I need as a civilized man to be against the practice.

* * * * *

I find the timing of this prominent gangster execution very interesting on a personal level, as today was the day that the two gangsters who paralyzed my nephew in a school drive-by were each sentenced to 120 years -to- life in prison. It was a highly charged, emotional court hearing, much moreso than I exepected. There was gang violence over the sentence just outside the courtroom that had to be broken up by the baliffs, and my entire family was escorted from the courthouse by a cadre of sheriffs.


Maybe it was a riot rehearsal for later tonight.

wendybeth 12-12-2005 06:04 PM

120 to life? Has the average lifespan suddenly increased, or is this a type of sentencing that ensures a true life sentence? I'm not familiar with California sentencing guidelines, but it seems here in Wa there are lots of loopholes and ways to get around actually serving the sentence handed down in it's entirety.

I'm glad to hear that they were sentenced, and that they took precautions for your famiily's safety.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 12-12-2005 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth
I've a book you would probably love, then. It's called 'Legacy of Death', and it's about the Sanson family of executioners in France. Great book.

Now *that's* a book recommendation. Cool!

Snowflake 12-12-2005 06:58 PM

Well, I am not one for the DP. Frankly, the way I see it, the DP does not deter anyone, except those who are prosecuted, convicted and then executed for their crime(s).

I'm thankful that I've not been asked to serve on a capital murder jury, and I would not want to have the opportunity to be a witness at an execution. Of course, witnessing now seems to be a rather sterile issue with lethal injection. Nonetheless, I'd probably puke my guts out before, during and after (not a pleasant scenario for any other possible witnesses to be sure).

I hope that Euromeinke has no issues on the train home tonight and he'll reassure us that he does get home without issue!

Donna

Not Afraid 12-12-2005 07:16 PM

He's home without incident - and he brought burgers even!

€uroMeinke 12-12-2005 07:22 PM

All Quiet in the Hood
 
So far this evening all is quiet between Downtown LA and Long Beach. I had a rather uneventful journey home tonight protected by the compnay of Umberto Ecco and the swank sounds of Ursula 1000. We'll see what tomorrow's like.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 12-12-2005 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman
I am against the death penalty under any circumstances, would not want to witness an execution, and would never be able to convict someone of guilt if death were to be the penalty. It's eye-for-an-eye biblical barbarism as far as I'm concerned, and proven to be no deterent whatsover. Heh, even if it were, people's lives are not meant to be taken so as to set an example of warning. Bah on that. Add in the racism, the wrongully convicted up the wazoo, and the fact that - well - it's wrong (is there some reason the U.S. is alone with, who? Korea, Iran and their ilk as still having the d.p. in this day and age?), and you have 50 more reasons than I need as a civilized man to be against the practice..

The next time I see you, I may try to hump you.

Ditto to all that you said. It could be argued that the whole purpose of the legal system is to put an end to eye-for-an-eye vengeance.

Without it:

I kill your dog. You kill my dog. I then kill your dog’s puppies. Then you kill my chickens. Then I kill your chickens and your daughter. Then you kill my son, my wife…. On and on and on.

When a person is killed there’s nothing anyone can do to ever make that right. The idea that a person can find peace in the death of another human being, even one who has caused great harm, is just not a healthy one to cultivate. “Murder is wrong, and so, as punishment…more murder.” Bah.

A human should not have the right to kill another human being.

And neither should a government. You can’t have it both ways. War is a far more complicated issue, though my problems with war stem from that same hypocrisy: Murder is wrong, except…… *How* can there be acceptable exceptions? Sure, sometimes you cannot avoid war. Sometimes going to war is the necessary thing to do, but it still feels more wrong than right.

I understand the impulse to murder. It’s animal. It’s natural. So when an individual commits murder, it’s a horrible thing, but it doesn’t scare me nearly as much as a governing body deliberating and deciding that murder is an acceptable punishment. And it scares me even more when the government makes the decision to go to war. I guess an individual crime doesn’t terrify me as much as a government committing a crime and calling it something else: justice.

Then again, my favorite comic book quote is "Take away the blindfold and the scales and justice is a woman holding a sword."

All that aside, the threat of the death penalty does nothing to curb crime.

I propose an alternative.

We need a prison planet. Or, to start, a prison space station. Heh.


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