I do not beleive in fate, destiny, or preordination. I believe in the concept of free will.

Why? Well, I suppose that is not an easy answer.

I am a basic Bible believing, Jesus worshipping Christian. I believe that God exists and has always existed. I believe he exists at all points in time. Being that, he knows exactly what will happen in my life. Does this mean it is preordained? Not in the least. I have free will to make choices. God just knows what choices I am going to make.

Though raised in a "Christian" family - meaning your basic suburban church going family - my family situation actually drove me away from any practical application of faith for several years. Various personal experiences and revelations brought me back to it.

I think I answered the OP questions, so I'll leave it at that. I certainly have more than my share of religious/philosophical thoughts which I have no doubt no one wants to read about.

Sure...as well as it can actually be answered yes. I dont expect "answers" here, just thoughts. Your post more than meets that criteria.

That seems to follow alot of what Ive found as well. From day to day and even hour to hour, thoughts perceptions and reasoning change with state of mind, emotional state, circumstance etc.


Welcome to my world. I'm not much beyond that point myself....hence the question.


I just realized I never posted my thoughts on the subject.

In many ways, I see the whole concept as a fish swimming in a fast flowing river. the fish holds free will to do as it must or wants within the confines of the river itself, yet the river is unyeilding in its boundaries and flow. the fish can swim upstream or down, side to side, up and down as it wishes and perform whatever actions as it progresses along yet cannot leave the river itself. the river will eventually take the fish to where it is destined to be, one way or another and without regard to actions taken during the journey.

thanks everyone. keep 'em coming. facinating stuff. Ive never had to hit dictionary.com so many times in one thread in my life. :D


that you did. thanks

Absolutely, thus I don't really see a conflict between what I think is the nature of the universe and the fact that I feel societal and personal judgement are important. That I try to live a live as I think should be lived.

Even though I don't think there is any such thing as should, we are hardwired to think in those terms. I don't believe I cause anything but don't really have a choice but to think as if I do.

If you shot a photon from our sun towards Mars, and then could give it the ability to think, I think it could only have one possible thought: "I really want to go to Mars." That is, the first thing the photon would do with its ability to think is imbue its course with intent.

I also think it is likely that we are generally hardwired to believe in "gods" and that somehow this hardwiring is deficient in me (I've never had a moment of spiritual or religious faith or revelation in my life) and so to the extent that I do interpret the universe it is completely in the absence of the supernatural.

Kevy : Could you elaborate please?

I want to give an opinion, but I think I want to know what this means first.

Like Wendybeth, my opinions on this change according to mood. This leads me to believe that all angles are true to some degree.

I hope to keep this somewhat brief...

I believe in God, and I believe God created the world for us to play in, and the only way to play is to have free will. I can't help but believe in minor miracles though - I do feel that God has helped me out many times over. Just a nudge, once in a while, doesn't cancel out free will....does it?

Destiny is simple - A + B = C. I found the love of my life at 18 yrs old. This means that I decided not to travel the world. It also means I followed him to Orange County. I'm now fulfilling my destiny, here. Had I not met him that year, I probably would have moved to another state or country to seek my fortune (yes, that really was my plan B). And then my destiny would have been far different.

I believe that each of us has the capabilities to be many different people. Everyone's multi-talented - it's just a matter of what you concentrate on. I wouldn't limit my perspective on myself by saying I only had one destiny.

Yes.

I will also add this quote:

It is wrong to chide the novel for being satisfied by mysterious coincidences, but it is right to chide man for being blind to such coincidences in his daily life. For he thereby deprives his life of a dimension of beauty.
- Milan Kundera

[Source: The Unbearable Lightness of Being]

I have a very cool reminder of my no-coincidences theory of coincidence.

Every few months, usually for a few nights in a row, I will awaken only once in the middle of the night and open my eyes to see my clock display an odd series of numbers. It's either 1:11 a.m. or 2:22 a.m., or it will be 2:34 a.m. or 5:46 a.m. I will not awake at any other time of those nights to see random numbers like 1:37 a.m. or 3:15 a.m. It will only be a sequential series or identical series of numbers, and will happen only once per night, usually for a few nights in a row, and then cease for a few months.

This is my reminder from the universe that seeming coincidences are usually not coincidences at all. It might be presumed that someone with my innate time sence (I rely on no alarm clocks, but awake near 7:00 a.m. each day) might unconsciously be awakening only at times when I know there will be a sequential or identical series of numbers displayed on the clock. But I don't think so. (My 7 o'clock daily awakening can happen roughly anytime from 6:56 a.m to 7:07 a.m. - - thus I presume that my internal time sense is not so precise as to explain the middle-of-the-night clock-talk from God phenomena).




Oh, in the wee hours of this morning, I opened my eyes at exactly 5:55.

I'm fascinated with coincidences and have come to no conclusions regarding their relative importance. Natural result of the infinite combination of events ocurring around us at all times? Outcropping of our internal need to project order on the chaotic world? Unconscious shaping of our environment to our own thoughts? Picking up on as-to-yet unkown information that's out there? God intervening? Consequence of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? I'd believe any of it.

Whatever the inherent meaning, or lack there of, they sure are fun to pay attention. Like this weekend when I suddenly remembered I had to call my mom...only to get a busy signal because she was dialing my number at the exact same moment...only to hang up with her and have CP immediately call to remind me to call my mom. Or the countless times my mind wanders to thoughts of someone I haven't seen or thought about in years, only to have them appear (either in person or in the form of news of their whereabouts) within the next day.

Wee hours? That's wee hours? Good lord I miss the days of no kids sometimes.....

Quite the contrary, while an athiest myself I love to hear people's personal experiences with God. I believe I have the same messed-up wireing as Alex so my atheism comes to me not so much from a rejection of the supernatural, but rather a sense of personal integrity in that I just don't recognize god in my day to day life and to claim it would be dishonest to my personal experience. But I know plenty who have had that numinous experience, the sense of God's presence and that fascinates me, for who am I to discount the personal experience of others?

Much better said, I simply delight in discovering the connections in the disconnected - it is a most humbling beauty and source of pleasure even in the bleakest circumstances