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-   -   Lord God Angry Over Taxi Drivers Decision to Return Money (http://74.208.121.111/LoT/showthread.php?t=6155)

wendybeth 07-02-2007 03:19 PM

Gratitude, perhaps. If you ever lose something of value and do not have it returned, you might be willing to pay for it's return. It's simply returning a kindness with another, but I guess not everyone sees it like that. You don't have to pay a reward, but it generally is nice to offer one. It's no big deal- you either offer one or you don't.

Alex 07-02-2007 03:29 PM

Yes, I agree with that. I don't care if a reward was offered or not. But it appears from the other comments that not only is a reward de rigeur but that there is a certain minimal level of reward.

I'm curious what the rules are? Does the appropriate award amount go up with the dollar amount? Would $17,500 get $5 more than $17,000? Does it matter if the taxi driver knew what he was returning and therefore did or didn't suffer temptation? Does it matter if he is an independently wealthy retiree who hacks because it keeps him busy between visits with the grandchildren? Does it matter if his reasons for turning it in were not altruistic? Say he would have kept it but knew the money would be tracked to his cab and he'd likely be fired and still lose the money? Does it matter what "a lot" is in the local economy? Does the situation of the person who lost the money matter?

Is there a time limit before the need to give a reward kicks in? If he had noticed the money in his basket before leaving the curb and called her back what is the obligation? Before he got to the end of the block and manages to run back to her? 30 minutes later?

I'm honestly curious, this isn't snark. Since it seems people are certain $32 was not enough, what would have been enough and what goes into determining that? Because there are a lot of details that story doesn't give before we decide god should kick her ass.

wendybeth 07-02-2007 03:52 PM

It's certainly subjective, but my idea of a reward would be proportionate to the value of the item I've lost. Do you struggle with the concept of tipping as well? Just curious.

blueerica 07-02-2007 03:58 PM

I think that it's only the scale of how much $32 means in the Phillipines that is shocking. What is paltry to most American's is probably quite a lot to someone else. It's hard to say, really, what the appropriate amount should be.

If the money wasn't hers to begin with, I don't know why she offered her own pocket money at all (perhaps embarrassment). In terms of how much the value of the lost money would be in the U.S., I'd guess it would equate to anywhere between $170K and $200K, so I couldn't even imagine myself in a situation where I'd be responsible for that much cold, hard cash, and if I was, I would would like to think that I would have taken better care of it.

So, um... yeah. I have no idea what the right amount would be.

Better suited question for Americans might be "What would you pay a reward for something that has a street value of $175,000?" take that, and boil it back down. But I still wouldn't know. I don't have anything of that much value.

The whole situation is strange.

Ghoulish Delight 07-02-2007 04:44 PM

Hmm, it somehow completely escaped me that this was the Philippines. That certainly alters my perception of the size of the reward. I guess my feeling is that, while I don't believe a reward is by any means mandatory, if you're going to offer a reward it should be an amount that doesn't seem to indicate, "I'm doing this out of obligation, here's some bare minimum." Yes, I realize the utter circular conundrum that presents, but if someone handed me $30 in America for returning something of large value, it would feel to me the equivalent of leaving a $1 tip for a $100 meal. Better to just not offer anything but thanks.

Obviously my reaction is not the same taking into account the economic differences between here and the Philippines.

Alex 07-02-2007 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth (Post 146835)
It's certainly subjective, but my idea of a reward would be proportionate to the value of the item I've lost. Do you struggle with the concept of tipping as well? Just curious.

I think the fact that tipping exists is beyond stupidity (why I'm obligated to cover someone's inability to negotiate a proper wage I simply don't understand). But no, I don't have a problem doing it or how much to tip.

But again, for that situation society has decided that there are somewhat strict rules on what the appropriate tip for certain situations are.

So, what are the rules here? What is properly proportionate? I'm am not really contesting that a reward is reasonable (though I don't think it is for the situation described) just the certainty that $32 was somehow insulting.

A cabbie making a reasonable effort to return something left by a fare in the car, is to me, just as much a part of the expectation of that job as a waiter giving me another fork if I drop mine on the floor.

The one time I did leave something valuable enough in a cab to try and track it down (in Minneapolis) I didn't give the cabbie a "reward" at all (and by the standard implied in this thread I owed him many (tens of?) thousands of dollars since it had a value to my company of almost $1 million). I paid and (generously) tipped him for transporting the item to me just as if I'd been a fare in that cab.

Alex 07-02-2007 06:03 PM

I realize I'm coming off as more severe than I intend. Trying to work on that.

I'm just honestly curious what would be considered the range of a reasonable amount.

Cadaverous Pallor 07-02-2007 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex (Post 146864)
I realize I'm coming off as more severe than I intend. Trying to work on that.

I'm just honestly curious what would be considered the range of a reasonable amount.

The world isn't black or white, Alex. I'd say this is an incredibly subjective issue. Even if the facts were totally clear, you'll get a different answer for every person you ask. There are no rules. Just a gut feeling, based on your own values, which are based on your own experiences and what you were taught growing up.

Add to that the fact that we know very little about this specific case. Was the money just pocket change for the lady? Was it for some necessary surgery, scrounged out of her mattress? We don't know, and to me, these issues change how I personally feel she should reward the man.

If a neighbor helped you move your coffee table into a flat bed truck, would you give him something to show your gratitude? Would you give him a glass of lemonade, or bake him a pie, or drop a thank you note in his mailbox? Or maybe a handshake would suffice? Perhaps, instead, you'd "owe him one", and when he wants help with moving his daughter to college, you'd do a little extra work for the cause? What are the rules, what is the answer?

Personally, in the specific case of the cabbie - if the money is somewhat disposable, I'd reward the guy at least a grand. Don't ask me any further justification - that's just how I feel.

Alex 07-02-2007 06:58 PM

Of course the world isn't black and white. But a black and white pronouncement on the appropriateness of the $32 was made. 8,000 miles away we're making fun of the woman for giving too little when we know almost nothing about the circumstances.

Why assume the worst?

As for my neighbor it would depend. If I didn't know the person I wouldn't let them help me. If they were a friend I'd say thanks and that would be the end of it, I don't think there's a balance sheet to be balanced at some point. Though, since they're obviously at my home they are welcome to anything in they'd like from the fridge whether they move the coffee table or not.

Personally, giving someone nine months ($1,000) pay for simply doing their job does seem excessive (and, to me, insultingly so).

Cadaverous Pallor 07-02-2007 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex (Post 146870)
Personally, giving someone nine months ($1,000) pay for simply doing their job does seem excessive (and, to me, insultingly so).

Like I said, it depends. If that's nine months pay, it means he found 12.75 YEARS of pay. If you earn 50 thou a year in our wonderful country (to pick a nice round number) the equivalent is $637,500 dollars. I'll take that down to another nice round number and say that if I returned $500,000 (in somewhat disposable income, as I stipulated earlier) to someone, then yes, I would feel a tiny bit miffed if all I got back was one week's pay (little less than a thousand bucks). I would probably feel fortunate that it was me that found the money, and therefore, got paid something for pure happenstance, and so I'd accept the gift graciously. Still, one percent ain't much in my very subjective opinion.

To me, it doesn't matter what the guy makes, it's about percentage of the amount the owner had thought they'd lost. Again, I'm not going to have a perfect rationale why I feel this way, it's just my gut.

Don't get me wrong - if I find a quarter on the floor at the library I turn it in at the desk for the day, and if no one claims it, it goes in the donation box.


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