I didn't intent to imply that brazillians=closet pederast.

But I've noticed, annectdotally in my own experience, that porn in our culture has evolved to reflect the "bald" look more and more frequently. I just wonder why that is and state the obvious visual connection. There has to be some socialogical implications in that about our culture - or so I presume.

In other cultures, a glimpse of ankle was thought erotic, did that make them foot fetishists? Perhaps in some cases, but I doubt it over-all.

I think our porn and sexual iconography speeks volumes about our culture - but agian, who's going to allow that course of study?

All right… I feel a little better. Not great, but at least I’m not feverish.
Now… I grew up with two parents until the age of eight. I didn’t really fondle, or play doctor much, if at all. I know by the age of… six maybe, I had found my dad’s playboy magazines. But really, I only read the cartoons. I’m not sure they made sense to me at the time… I don’t remember. But I would sneak them all the time.

When my folks split at 8, within a year we had moved in with my moms boyfriend. I had the room next to theirs. I knew they smoked illicit substances, and that after that smell went away, they made a lot of noise, and were never seen again for the rest of the evening once they went in that room.
We had sex ed in 3rd grade, as there was a predator in the area, and wanted to make sure we were all aware, so I did know the mechanics of what was going on.

But I think, it was different then. I was a geek. My obsessions were with older movie stars.. but I didn’t get into teen beat or anything like that. I never cared about the clothe I wore, or wearing makeup. I made in into 9th grade, or 14 before I ever questioned my sexuality, or that of anyone else.
Now granted that's still young… But I was doing community theatre, and had very little parental involvement in my life. What I learned, I learned backstage. Then what I didnt learn there, as a teenager basically through force and rape.

Personally, I didn’t stop to think about what people would expect or want of me, till I was in high school. And really not until they started saying I was a tease. I wasn’t, I was just… unaware.
I don’t know where I’m going with this anymore.
I didn’t have the media, the sexuality in my face every day like my son and my niece do.
I wasn’t looking to pick up boys in grade school! I wanted to play D&D with them, not make sure I had the right training bra.
How… in the name of heaven, do I tell my son as he gets older… yes, I know what you see on tv. I KNOW what you see in music.. but really, that’s not how we treat women. We don’t walk up to strangers and pinch their a$$. Its just not done.
How do I enforce with my niece… the boys don’t need to see your stomach. They don’t need to see your cleavage that you don’t have yet. I know the other girls do it… but… I don’t think they should either. And when we're out in public! How do you explain to young women, I know that men want to talk to you that way. I know that you see in the news that little girls dress up like whores... but really, its not the way we want to live our lives.
But then you have me. The walking oxy moron. I like to dress up. Most of my work clothes have cleavage… am I setting a bad example?
Or... even still you have my family. We have a recovering sexaholic in a 12 step program. That supposedly, made us kids the way we are.

Did they? I never knew about the adulterous relationships... or the porn, or the paid favors.
But even now, that seems common place. much as it doenst shock us to her about a kiddie porn ring. Or the Law and Order episode with the young models, and using the aging software in reverse to make the models look even younger... we dont bat an eye. Why is that?

Children are sexual beings in their own right. They experience feelings. They're naturally curious. And sometimes it's just being curious about their gender differences. Sometimes it's a curiosity about touch. I've had friends who cannot remember feeling at all sexual until the onslaught of puberty. And others who, like me, began exploring sexuality at a very early age. I flashed at 5. I was kissing by 9, with a one boy who was 10 and another who was 8. We were children finding our way with each other and there was nothing damaging about it. I was also about 9 when I started actually lying down with boys and we explored each other from head to toe. And there was no adult interference. It was all so innocent, even as we began to explore issues of dominance and submission. Seriously, we were really curious about changing places being the assertive partner, or the one who simply lied back and accepted the other's exploration.

The feelings were strange. There was tingling in the special places, but no understanding of consummation or orgasm. The need we felt was there but limited and, in my opinion, age appropriate.

I didn't feel guilty about any of it - I was assertive and confident and happy - until I got to junior high school and discovered that most of my classmates were just kissing for the first time, etc. And it didn't occur to me that people develop at different rates. When I learned to really compare myself to other people, I started giving my sexuality labels. This is right. This is wrong.

And though I hid some of this behavior from my parents, having an awareness that what we were doing was adult play (and I only came to that conclusion because we were, to some degree, mimics of what we saw on TV, etc.), I was frank in asking my parents about sex.

I think that certain media exposure can do harm. That children should be able to explore budding sexual interests with each other, or on their own, free from media images of what is supposed to be sexual, sexy, beautiful, erotic, etc. I felt that some of my natural instincts were perverted by some of what I'd seen on TV or in film. What initially felt like an exploration of my body and another's became a pantomine of some rated R film we snuck a peek at when our parent's weren't paying attention.

But I firmly believe that if we were all left to our own devices, to develop sexually on a biological level, most of us would have gone the way of The Blue Lagoon. Puberty would happen and sex would shortly follow, whether you were 12 or 16.

I think kids need to be less policed. And taught less to be scared of things.

I agree, and I bet there are studies being done on it. We just have to look in the right places.

I'd certainly like to understand the American obsession with perky, huge breasts, an obsession that baffles so much of the rest of the world.

Interesting...

I think what adults do should not be shared with kids. It is different for them to find things out on their own~without influence from the media or other kids who have themselves been influenced by the media.

That said, hmm. Hard to put this into words for me. What has been said about adults preferences is right, we can like what we like, etc. But, what Ponine has said, can't be ignored.

While the majority of adults understand the difference between a Carmen Electra in a schoolgirl outfit and a real schoolgirl, a lot of men don't. That I find dangerous.

I don't appreciate the Brittneys, Lohans, and whomever else, acting the way they do since they have buttered their bread with the souls of young girls. I saw Lohan with damn, who is that hot Irish actor, GC's avatar, on SNL. He hit on her and she totally went for it. Hello? What is that age difference?

The issue of being driven {sexually}and not accepting no for an answer. I think that sadly a lot of girls are introduced to sex in this way. Guys see something they want and damnit they are going to have it. This can go between teens of the same age, a little bit older guy, or, the pedophile. {should add that I also know of a lot of women who do the same thing...}

I know a young girl who was molested. Repeatedly. The perp said she wanted it. Wanted it? A little girl wants love and acceptance and to be shown worth. Shown that her worth is with her body? Her sexuality? That I find what is wrong with sexuality being so open. I think adults enjoying sex is great, Wahoo! But kids need to know that there is foundation to a person, their soul, and their worth is in that.

It is really hard for young girls who are physically mature at a very young age.

The big boob deal? Yeah, I don't get that. I've had guys just go on and on about how they love big breasts. I would tell them 'Then what are you doing with me? Are you trying to tell my something?'

I mean, it's one thing to admire, desire, whatever, certain physical attributes but to obsess....

Hope that made some sense....the products of MY sexuality keep bugging me to get off the computer.... :rolleyes:

Things are so bass-ackwards. We're teaching kids that sex is not okay, while presenting them the image that overt sexuality is all-important. Honestly, it should be the other way around, sort of. I think kids should be tought be to be less afraid of sex than they are, and more warry of overt sexuality. Not that I think sexuality is a bad thing, but I think it's something that takes a long time to master and definitely shouldn't be encouraged in children who do not yet have the perspective to control it.

Of course, there's no magic age where ALL kids are old enough to understand. Everyone matures at their own rate. But because of that, the only solution is to set an artificial cutoff that encompasses as many cases as possible while still being reasonable. 18 seems to work pretty well. They've (in theory) been through the entire basic education system, they've been pubescent for several years, so they have good odds of being as prepared as they are going to be.

Also, addressing a little of what Eliza brought up, I think prepubescent physical exploration with other prepubescent peers is a totally different can of worms than either A) post-pubescent exposure to the adult world of sexuality (i.e. pornography, or to a lesser extent main-stream entertainment with sexual themes) and B) imitation of adult public sexuality in pre-pubescent children (i.e. unmodest clothing, very early dating behavior). The physical exploration with peers I find totally natural and harmless. It's part of the learning process and it's with someone of your own general level of sexual understanding. However, when you're talking exposure to the adult world of sexuality, and imitation of adult sexual social behavior, you're introducing actions and behaviors that I don't think kids that young are ready to integrate in a healthy way. It just leads to confusion and messed up expectations. Not a good trend.

Well, I think the whole "Brazillian" thing is connected with childhood sexuality - if not childhood sex. I mean, it is one of the great "development" of woman hood to have pubic hair. It's controlable, unlike boobage, which has grow to popularity in enormous lengths. What a dichotomy! We like our woment to be girls "down there" but more than woman up top. Doesn't anyone else find that strange? What lengths will we go to for our men?

I guess I never really understood that other people had different experiences than I did. I did what I wanted to do when I felt like doing it. For me, that was relatively late (by today's standards). Perhaps one of the advantages of being a social pariah is that no one pressures you to do things against your will.

I learned about sex from a cartoon-style book in the doctor's office. It must have been VERY early on, as it was no more exciting than a book on polar bears or tropical rain forests. I was reading on my own by age 3, so it was probably not long after that. I'll bet someone left it out thinking I couldn't possibly understand what it was.

Anyhow, I don't remember a time when I didn't know about the mechanics of sex. It was like pooping. We all do it, and there's nothing wrong with it, but that doesn't mean we talk about it at the dinner table.

But I didn't get to watch a lot of teevee growing up, so maybe that influenced (or DIDN'T influence) my opinions.

I am kind of curious that some think their exposure to various media sources influenced their later development. I can assure you that I had an EXTREMELY proper upbringing (no white shoes after labor day!) and yet as an adult I have quite the collection of various implements. So where did THOSE urges come from? Because I fantasized about that LONG before developing any explicitly sexual fantasies.

I just want to hug and squeeze you right now you smart, smart, eloquent man. That is exactly what I was driving at, only I couldn’t find the right academic language and resorted to personal anecdotes. I completely agree with what you’ve said in this post.

Again, I can't speak for any other men, but for me, I don't look at a bare palying field and think, "mmm, young," I simply look and think, "Oooh, I can see it, nifty!" Not to mention the textural difference. Among other things, not that I have any real first hand experiences (heck, I've never even changed diapers), but from my sex-ed days I certainly remember that a prepubescent vagina looks quite a bit different than an adult's. Hair or not, there's little chance of confusing the two.

Now that I think about it, perhaps those of us in the younger generation have a different perspective. Afterall, when I started being aware, and started having access to porn, bare was already the norm. So I never really completely associated hair with adulthood. It was just another style choice, based on what I was exposed to. So it never ocurred to me that the motivation was to look younger, I always assumed the motivation was just to improve the view and feel.