I suppose I should study up on my time travel rules.

And I am going to go out on a limb and say that the bomb didn't change anything. In fact, I think Faraday is wrong and the bomb has always been part of the incident.

Here's a radical thought... Maybe Faraday knew that!

I just don't know.....If Whatever happened really always happened then why:


1)Charlotte, right before she died, told Faraday that he(Faraday) came up to her when she was a child and in a scary way told her to leave the Island and never come back? Now, he is dead and so far all we've seen is him talk to her in a calm(not scary) voice to leave the Island with her mother.....nothing was said about never coming back. Perhaps Faraday, in a small way, changed things even before setting off the H-bomb.

2)Did Faraday, biggest advocate of WHH, after 3 years of intense study off Island, come to the conclusion that things can be changed?

3)Did Ben, right after Alex was killed, say Widmore changed the rules?

4)Did Mrs Hawking go thru the bother of making sure Desmond took a certain path if he had always taken that path?

5)Do Charlie, Claire, Ana Lucia, Libby, and maybe even Christian keep popping up? Could it be that they are still alive in a Universe where the plane doesn't crash on the Island and that is why Charlie said to Hurley "Iam dead, but I am also here"???

The producers said they are not in purgatory, a dream or a snow globe. Maybe they are in the Twilight Zone.

I already posted about Sobek. Nice to see that no one is reading my posts.

Who are you and how long have you been posting here?

I am! I remember that but I couldn't remember who posted it and I didn't search. I'll go stand in the corner and bow my head in shame. :(

If you were a 4 year old child and a man you didn't know came up to you and told you to leave the only home you've ever known, that would be scary. I seem to remember him making her cry, because he was crying. Either that, or sloppy writing.

Here's a classic LOST cop out for ya - he was wrong.

This has nothing to do with the timeline because Ben hadn't traveled through time. He just had supposed rules with Widmore which Widmore broke. No real explanation for "the rules" yet, but it may have something to do with the passing of Others leadership from Widmore to Ben.

This is easy. The only reason he always takes that path is because Mrs Hawking always makes sure he does.

Sure. Or a dozen other options. Here are some easy ones. 1. They are inhabited by Jacob, 2. They are inhabited by Esau, 3. They are inhabited by Locke's ghost, 4. Hurley talks to the dead but in a different way than Miles does, 5. The island won't let them go to the afterlife, as it is a very needy island...

Any other questions? I'd love to make up more answers. As the show has shown that they can do anything they want, I can make up any theory I want and it is just as viable as what actually happens. So I no longer have any trouble with inconsistencies.

Will Sawyer lose his shirt for more episodes?
How come the water is so damn blue and there is little seaweed?
Are they still eating Dharma food?
How come the food drops stopped (though they may have answered that earlier in the series and I forgot)?
How did the polar bear skeleton get to Tunsia?
Why does the mover of the island go to Tunsia when the island is moved (and why didn't Locke end up there)?
Where are the kids and the kidnapped Losties?
What happened to the Othersville that they showed the kids and kidnapped Losties at?

They probably explained some of these already but I forgot.

But here's what's really gonna cook your noodle...

*Will Sawyer lose his shirt for more episodes?

He better.

*How come the water is so damn blue and there is little seaweed?

I've been to places like that. The question should be, why do SoCal beaches suck so bad.

*Are they still eating Dharma food?

Is who eating it when and where?

*How come the food drops stopped (though they may have answered that earlier in the series and I forgot)?

That's a whole other story about the people who are dropping food and the problems they face blah blah blah

*How did the polar bear skeleton get to Tunsia?

Oh yeah, Tunisia. Um. I keep thinking of Poltergeist where they go into the closet but come out of the ceiling downstairs.

Greg: Tunisia is the Island's antipode. He is right.

*Why does the mover of the island go to Tunsia when the island is moved (and why didn't Locke end up there)?

Locke does end up there. See above.

*Where are the kids and the kidnapped Losties?

Long dead or brainwashed.

*What happened to the Othersville that they showed the kids and kidnapped Losties at?

It was only a front, but it was on the far side of the island and I don't think they've been near there since. I'm probably wrong.

They're probably at the temple. When Dead Lock asked if this was everybody (referring to the group he rejoined after bringing the boar back for dinner) Richard said some were at the temple.

BTW, I just watched last week's CSI episode. Libby and Jacob are in it.

It's really bizarre to see Locke as a General on the West Wing. I remember it tripped me out when LOST! first started and it's doing it again. Such different characters.

Maybe Jacob does not want Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sun and Jin to get on flight 815 and the flashbacks we are seeing are not him nudging them towards taking the flight but actually just the opposite; perhaps he went back in time(again?) and changed things so that this time they won't be on the plane if and when it does crash:

Kate: Jacob told her to "be good". Now we know that pre-815 Kate wasn't all that good so if Jacob was really there it doesn't compute...yeah, I know, he paid for the stolen item and got her off the hook and yeah, that could have led to her life of crime......but what if it is more straightforward than that, what if after Jacob touching her and telling her to be good she actually does go on to be good???

Jin and Sun: Same as with Kate, he told them one thing but we know that they end up doing quite the opposite.....perhaps this too is a "new" visit by Jacob and they do go on to guard their marriage better. If they did would they have ended up on that plane???

Sawyer: Perhaps Jacobs pen, in some way, softens the tone of Sawyers letter to Cooper....disapearing ink maybe???

Jack: Without that candy bar Jack may have given in to a burning hatred for his father at that moment in time....the candy bar Jacob gave him may have distracted him, just enough(a little push) to take Jack away from a bad path.

Then there's the two post crash visits:

Hurley: Notice what Jacob offered Hurley....a choice.....to get on the plane or not leaving the decision entirely up to the Hurley alone. This was really cool because up until this point Hurley has been told he has to go(Ben, Locke, Jack) or has to stay(Sayid, Jack) but here Jacob was telling him to choose.

btw: Jacob offered someone else a choice in this episode...Ben...which leads me to believe that Hurley, not Frank is the "candidate" for new Island leader...

Sayid: In order for the bomb to function Jacob needed Sayid on the Island...so he saved his life. Why he didn't save Nadia too? Maybe she was destined to die no matter what(I know, that's weak, but I got nothing else)

Now there was one other person who had a flashback during the season finale.....Juliet. This was pre-crash like many of the 815'ers but there was no Jacob.

No Jacob and yet she is key to making the bomb go off....what does this mean???


And of course............LOCKE: We see Locke fall from the window and laying there on the ground un-conscious, Jacob touches him and Locke awakens. We assume that what happened here is that Locke's life was saved here by Jacob and then Locke goes on to be crippled, meets Abbadon and goes to Australia for the walkabout.....leading to 815.

But what if this too was a new visit by a time traveling Jacob and after receiving the healing touch Lockes visit to the hospital was just for bumps and bruises and a mild concussion????

Have to say, intriguing stuff. You hurts my brain meats.

Sleepyjeff: are you a staff writer for Lost, by any chance?

GREAT post. :snap:

Thanks but all I am doing is trying to sort this whole thing out.....easier when I type it rather than chase thoughts. Basically I was trying to figure out how all of these things Jacob did led to our Losties coming to the Island but some things just didn't jive so I thought I'd see if things would jive better if he was doing just the opposite...I think they just may:D

ABC has confirmed who the statue is:

We finally caught up with Lost over the weekend. I like it. Very pleased with where the story has gone so far... but still have the same trepidation that I did way back in Season 2... I wish I had faith that the writers won't fumble this...

I think Rose and Bernard are the "Adam and Eve" skeletons from the cave in season one.

Also, interestingly, Lindelof (one of the creators) noted at one point (in speaking of the skeletons):
This also speaks to what is bothering CP...I do think that sometimes along the way they've had to say, "gee, we implied this because we wanted to go here and now we need to add these things in order for it ultimately happen and make sense."

But they've been clear some time that there were two sides and that people needed to choose which side they were on. Most of us always assumed that meant the two sides were Ben and Widmore. They are now clarifying that the two sides are Jacob and "Esau" (and one would assume that Ben and Widmore are/were the de facto "leaders" of each faction). Personally, I don't consider that a bait and switch nor an obfuscation. They never said those were the sides. Sure, they implied, but I believe the implication was only a plot point to allow the story to become more fleshed out.

I'm inclined to think he may be more a Judas figure (in the more modern interpretation that Judas was "chosen" by Jesus- as his most faithful servant, to "betray" Jesus in order to fulfill the prophesy of his resurrection).

On a similar note, I think Smokey didn't kill Ben because it (or he, if you are inclined to think he is aligned with the man in black) is unable to kill anyone directly "touched" by Jacob which brings me to another point...

That Jacob (as sleepyjeff notes) went out of his way to touch each of the main characters in their flashbacks. If you throw in the biblical references that have been part of the Lost mythology, I don't think it's a big leap to interpret this as Jacob "choosing" his disciples and ultimately "saving" them in the process.

Doc Jenson (on ew.com) theorizes that the bomb will send them all back to the moment that Jacob touched them but with all of the knowledge they've already accumulated and that they will eventually return to the island of their own volition to fight to save Jacob and the integrity of the island...hence, the "coming war".

(I personally think he didn't save Nadia because doing so wouldn't have "saved" Sayid...she still would have been killed by one of (supposedly) Widmore's cohorts and Sayid would have turned to a dark path in order to exact revenge and/or because he had nothing to live for. Nadia dying by being hit by a car makes it nothing more than a tragic accident, one which requires no act of revenge...and Sayid is thus "saved" from the dark path of vengence.)

And yes, I am far too obsessed w/ Lost.



Miss me? :D

I actually like this explanation, and a lot of the other stuff you said made sense to me as well.

At this point I've already put my LOST brain into hibernation. See you 2010!

The more I watch the re-runs the more my heart breaks for them. Right now is the episode where Jin is begging Sun's father to let him marry her and agrees to work for him as a thug.

You may have single handedly redeemed the finale for me. I'll have to give it a rewatch soon.

Catch-up Time
 

We've got Series 5 on DVD and we're going back re-watching it, seeing as how our viewing was interrupted by a lil ole USA trip, etc.....

Just finished the first three episodes. Watching them in sequence makes it SO much more understandable. :blush:

I totally agree! It makes it SO much easier to put all of the little clues together. I can't wait for January...well other than the freezing and the snow and all.

He may not wear eyeliner, but there was actually an eyeliner reference to Richard in the show's dialogue (don't make me try and remember who said it, it probably was Sawyer...) That's when Greg & I noticed that he had very dark eyelashes.

OMG, I started backing up in this thread and realized I have no fracking memory for any of this (including stuff I posted). I better brush up soon.

Nestor Carbonell does not wear eyeliner. That bit of dialog was an inside-joke because everyone thinks he does have eyeliner on. It was discussed on the Lost podcast.

Ah - inside joke. Shame really, because Stoat's been hypothesising all sorts of theories as to why Richard might be wearing eyeliner - some of them were quite interesting. (we were waiting for the big Gay coming out scene where he takes Sawyer into the jungle and ravages him).

Now I can get Stoat to continnue to concentrate on the plot. :D We will be finished watching all the episodes by this weekend.

SRSLY!

CP - must be the baby blocking your memory, it was only last April... (seems like yesterday to me... oh, that's right - it WAS) :D

Well you're in for a treat. In Season 5, Richard does indeed take Sawyer out into the jungle but it's Sawyer who winds up ravaging Richard. It's pretty hot. Hopefully the Aussie censors don't cut the scene.

You tease !! :p

Hah, I barely remembered this stuff week to week, it's all so bloody complex and silly...

...but yeah, we'll be back when it starts up again.

My plan is to wait untill the end of the final season, then go back and watch it from the begining. With hind site, it will be interesting to see if I can catch clues and little things I missed. And to see it with fresh perspective.

I joined the Lost University, buy I don't have a Bluray player with BD Live! capability, so I doubt I'll be able to participate. :(

Anyone else going to get season 5 on DVD and do the Lost University thing?

.

Awesome art!


I'm really, really, really worried about this last season.

Yeah, but once it's done, Zombie Season!

Recap of seasons 1-5 in 8 minutes 15 seconds.

Just watching that makes me realize I should re-watch season 5.

Wow, I feel better now.

Yes, it is. But, it says "Boarding Pass" on it. Would you get on a plane that has artwork of a plane crash on it? :eek:

So, should I try the first season again and try to catch up?

Heh. It's a long journey. If the first ep didn't grab you the first time...

If you go browse Doc Jenson's blog on EW, he has a lot of info on exclusive info from the bluray; he also has all 10 underground art project posters (GD posted one of them) which supposedly contain hidden clues to the upcoming season. (Doc is also my favorite Lost geek authority on the web-- he has awesome theories.)

I seriously cannot wait until 02/02! I'm such a geek. (hmmm...we don't have a geek smilie...)

Absofreakinloutely.

Arrrgh!

I feel like shooting myself in the face.

I just got a call from my friend who works in the casting office for 'Lost'. She wanted me to work as an extra for them for two days. Paid. Problem is, it's this Friday and next week Wednesday. Friday I have a third interview with a promising job, a meeting at work AND a date. Can't blow off two of those... AND if I get this job I will be working for them next week so Wed is out too.

Shooooooot! I could have been in a really fun scene which would have guaranteed me some face time on the show. F*ck f*ck f*ckitty f*ck.

Oh well.

I need this job.

If I don't get it, boy will I be mad.

:D

Hmm. So luck crossed my path a second time. I report to the 'Lost' set tomorrow. Can't say what I'm doing or with whom... Call is freakin' 6:45a tho.
D'oh!!
:D

YAY!!! :D :D :D How freaking awesome is that??

Will you at least be able to tell us which episode you'll be in?

Because you don't know or because you're forbidden?

Because he wants you to think the answers are "the nasty" and "Matthew Fox"

Congrats GC!

Awesome news, GC. (and I hope you get the job, too)

Nifty Neato!

Wow, our very own GC is going to be on LOST!! I can't wait to see your episode!

So awesome!!!!

GC, for you I will watch an episode of Lost. That is positively fabulous! Keep this up and you will be a star and have to move back to California!

My day on "Lost" was great. 12 hours. Whew!

I was in three scenes total.

2 with principal cast members.

I played a patient in one scene and a doctor in two others.

And that's about all I can say. Once it airs, I can tell all.

I'm not sure what episode number it will be. I can find out, I guess.

The crew was fascinated and a bit taken a back that I knew not the show. Which helped me, actually. I was not starstruck at all by these actors. And was able to act without fear.

I tried to finagle myself into saying a line, but failed.

I wish y'all could have been there. It was fun.

:)

That's cool GC! I'm a fan and will watch for you, but it would be eaisier if we knew what episode.

You know not the show? What, do you live on some deserted island some where??

;)

Nice! Did you get paid? Does this count toward a SAG card?

VGCM! This is so cool! I can't wait to see.

I believe he would have to speak in order to get into SAG.

Looking forward to the Premiere of Season 6 at the Sunset on the Beach event on January 30 in Waikiki. I heard that jay and jack are supposed to be coming over as well as ryan from the transmission podcast will be doing some tours. Sunset = Free, tours=$

This is so cool!

Yay! Finally a reason to watch Lost!

I hear it's episode 11 of this season.
But not 100% sure.

We're not Lost fans at my house, but, we will watch it just to see you in it, Brad! :)

Do you get to oil up Matthew Fox in the episode?

Just found out that the Sunset on the Beach event will not be the whole 2 hour show but just the first hour. Kinda bummed.

Final season of Lost promises to make fans more annoying than ever.

LOL, I'm afraid this might be me...:eek:

Are we annoying? I hadn't noticed.....

Yes and I am so freaking jealous of you....you see, when I first started watching LOST it was late in season 2....so I went out and got season 1 on DVD and spent a weekend pretty much just watching LOST.

Now, with waaaay toooo long off-seasons and certain story-lines sometimes going weeks(or even years) before elaboration I often wish I would have just waited until the entire series was done so I could watch all of the episodes back-to-back-to-back:)

But it's way too late for me now:D

Well, Jeff, you can do what we plan to do. After the last season we are going to watch the whole thing over from the begining. After we find out the secret of the island, it will be fun to watch it all over again to pick up clues along the way.

I did the catch up thing also. I watch the premiere show and didn't think anything of it. But I got curious after hearing so many people talk about it, and a frien gave me season 1 for christmas after season 2. So I watched it and got hooked after about the 3rd episode, then I bought season 2 and watched it before season 3 started.

So you know how I feel.....it's like traveling long distance going 75mph for several hours and then all the sudden you come to a small town with a 20mph speed limit......and long red lights every single block.

Well I'm not. :D


I watched all of the episodes during the week I was in bed after my knee/foot surgery last year and I really saw a lot that I had missed upon first viewing. I also think that it was easier to understand a lot of things because things that in real time had no significance 4 weeks later meant a lot more when seen 4 hours later. Not all series lend themselves well to quick, sequential viewing but I think in Lost's case it actually enhanced it.

777

Days, Hours, Minutes:)

8 Unresolved Lost Questions
May not be work safe due to a swear word or two.

**SPOILER**

First 4 minutes of the new season!!


I can't wait for Tuesday!

I get to see the first 60 minutes tomorrow!

The 1st hour of the season premiere was amazing! There was a big reveal and some good explanations.

Here are some pictures from the premiere that took places on 1/30 here in Hawaii on Waikiki beach: http://www.flickr.com/photos/frikiti...7623193642349/

Enjoy!

Lost on the beaches of Hawaii? Duuuuddde! Way cool. Of course there is not much in life that wouldn't be better on the beaches of Hawaii...

I look forward with great anticipation to this tomorrow. I wish a could access youtube at work to view those first 4 minutes. Frikitiki, I admit to a great deal of envy but am glad it has seemingly been worth the wait.

Awesome photos! What beautiful weather. That had to have been a fun way to spend the day.

They were giving away t-shirts that said "LOST the final season 2010"on them when you turned in a program eval.

I'm thinking of putting it up on e-bay.

I wonder if the show is headed in a Sliding Doors direction?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztctgepaUOg

I think I know where you're going with this one, but your link to the Aqua video just made me think of "Barbie Girl".

Would it scare you to know that my Ipod has every single Aqua song ever made?

:D

HAPPY LOST DAY!

I just watched this trailer or promo or whatever it's called.

Somewhat spoilerish, but exceptionally cool.

What the what?

So "it worked," the island sunk and they all went back to their not so great lives in LA, yet they are still back on the island after the hatch blew? So even though they changed the past, they are destined to be back on the island at that time and place? Or are their two parallel universes? It's going to be an interesting season.

I'm cheating by reading the Lostpedia, where someone else has done the work of pointing things out to me. That may help.

That sounds like no fun at all.

I'm really sad about Locke. The only one who loved the island is dead and being usedby smokey/man in black to destroy it. I also just love his backstory. I wonder if his body willl end up in the temple. It would be fitting.

BTW, I half expect Sawyer to demand to dig Juliet up nnow that Sayiid is alive.

I really hope they aren't playing with alternate universes, but I suspect they are.

CP - I agree. But why are some people who die dead and others come back. Are they coming back as themselves? Is Sayid really Sayid? Or is he now Jacob?

Some random thoughts:

I don't think Locke is Locke. I think the dark guy (Esu? I can't remember his name!) is taking the shape of Locke so people follow him.

We know how that the ash around Jacob's cabin was to keep Smoky out and when they showed the broken line Smoky had gotten in the island. But why was Jacob saying "Help Me".

I'm starting to lean toward the religious aspect of it (Christian Sheppard, when Sayid was lifted from the water his arms were outstretched and he has a look similar to Jesus depicted in images...). I hope it's not the case but I'm starting to think it may be.

Did anyone else catch the Dharma logo on the shark in the underwater scene? I was so excited to finally see something.

It was nice to see the kidnapped characters, including the children. It was also nice to see Rose and Bernard, and Charlie... who was supposed to die. I wonder if Claire is pregnant again.

When did they shoot the flare off (was it season 1)? They did it for the signal transmission, I think. When they showed it Richard looked petrified. So is that the same flare that the Losties shot off or a different one?

It very much seems like alternate universes. At first I thought the bomb may have split them off into a different time-line, but it seems to be more than that. E.g., Hurley now considers himself to be "the luckiest guy in the world [universe?]." That's a huge change in personality. And Desmond was on the plane? He should have already been on the island entering the code every 108 minutes.

Locke is dead. I don't think there's any question about that. Man In Black/Smokey is definitely masquerading as Locke and I don't think he's hiding that fact now.

No, when was that? The opening when they were "flying" underwater at the beginning, showing the sunken island or when Sayid was being "drowned"?

Then Desmond disappeared. Did he move seats or is he time traveling again?

When they were showing the sunken island. It was shortly before they showed the statue foot.

Yes, I am quoting myself:

Or was it to keep Smoky in the cabin. We learned that Ben can control Smoky and it looked like Smoky lived in a cave in the Others' village but now it seems that isn't the case.

If the bomb worked, though, there would be no reason for Desmond to be pushing the button every 108 minutes.

My current theory is that the bomb "worked" in that it changed the timeline, but eveyone will still end up back on the island in the new altered timeline anyway With Jack's dad disappearing, John's knives getting lost, Charlie getting arrested, Kate back on the run with Claire as unintentional hostage, they aren't exactly living happily ever after in the alternate timeline

Yep, that's what I said. I guess we'll see if we're right.

[quote=Cadaverous Pallor;313397]

I'm really sad about Locke. The only one who loved the island is dead and being usedby smokey/man in black to destroy it. I also just love his backstory. I wonder if his body willl end up in the temple. It would be fitting.
QUOTE]


Me, too. :(

I enjoyed the show but seeing him, in the plane in the 'after' shots, his conversations, made me sad.

Good point scaeagles, thank you. Do you think he and Desmond still met at the stadium years before?

Differences between flashsideways timeline and original timeline from Lostpedia

When Sayid was looking at his passport, the blurb in English on the right said if it's found in IRAN it should be returned to the nearest police officer. Wasn't old Sayid from Iraq?

I loved seeing all the characters come back, even briefly. Charlie, Claire...the actor playing Boone aged too much, despite the ton of makeup they put on him (not HD friendly).

I especially loved that moment when Bernard made it back to his seat. A tailie no more. :)

I don't he did, although Jack did recognize him so who knows. The thing is, Desmond was there training for a race organized by Charles Widmore(who wanted to find the Island)....does Charles still want to find this Island even though it's at the bottom of the Ocean???

What if the "nuke blast" wasn't actually a bomb blast and instead was everyone jumping time. We *think* they stopped time jumping but maybe they didn't.

Interesting idea, but then how is there a different timeline when the plane didn't crash, and the island is under water?

Could Jacob and the man in black be Greek gods, and the Island be Mt. Olympus or Atlantis?

Why not? We're making assumptions based upon what we know which are leading our line of thinking down a path that may be completely incorrect.

We know that when Juliet pounded on the bomb the screen turned white. We also know that the screen turned white whenever they would jump time.

We know that there have been time jumps already. Why couldn't there be a completely alternate universe where the plane never crashes? We 'think' we know that Jack recognizes people on the plane. But is it a can't place them look or a I know for sure I know them from somewhere, why don't they recognize me look.

Was the red mark on Jack's neck from the turbulence (somehow) or the explosion/time jump?

Was Desmond really on the plane or was he jumping through time and ended up on the planet for a few moments.

Usually Desmonds jumps thru time have only been to places he has been to in the past.....so he either was:

1) On the plane all the way from Sydney to LA
2) Never on the plane.
3) On the plane in Jack's mind only.
4) We(and Jack) witnessed more than one alternate flight 815....one with Desmond and one without(perhaps this has something to do with Charlie)

or

5) Desmond now has a new skill;)


Speaking of Desmond.....last we heard of him he swore off the whole Island affair but was warned by Hawking that his part wasn't finished.

Since then we have not seen Desmond but Hawking's plan to explode the H bomb was carried out; which leads me to believe that her plan extends beyond the H-bomb and that Desmond does indeed have a part to play:eek:

We assume we did, but you know what happens when we assume.

How do we really know the bomb went off? What proof do we have?

After 5 years of LOST I don't consider the alternate timelines, alternate universes or Juliet saying "it worked" confirmation.

Good point....perhaps it didn't go off(but what proof do we have that it didn't)

Perhaps what we are witnessing is what happens if the bomb denonates(plane?) and what happens if it does not??? Kind of a Schrodingers Cat exercise.....maybe the whole point of LOST is to answer the age old question, once and for all, "if a tree falls in the forest..."

:)

So to sum up, so far the season of Answers is really just more questions.

Yes, and anyone who expected otherwise hasn't been paying attention.

Basically ;)

But we know that smoky is Esau/Not!Locke and the ash keeps him at bay.
We also know that Sayid and Sawyer are still smoking hot.

We also know that a whole bunch of others live in the Temple. Unless I missed that before.

Sheesh, I have lots of thoughts but I want to throw this out there about Sayid:

If we stick with the idea that Jacob/the island is about redemption and we remember that he touched all (well almost) of the main characters sometime in the past in an effort to save (or bestow redemption upon) all of them, then I think he finally "saved" Sayid.

I don't remember his exact words to Hurley, but I believe they were very close to, "they are the only ones who can save him."

Remember young Ben? When he was shot, Richard told Kate and Juliet that he wouldn't remember anything and that he would never be the same. Did he just give Sayid a "reboot"? The one factor that would otherwise always keep Sayid from being redeemed (at least in his mind) was all of the bad things he did in the past. If those memories are gone and he is "changed", i.e. left with his essential "Sayidness" is he not, in effect, saved (redeemed)?

I bring this up because here's what I think:

Setting the sideways timeline aside for the moment, I think these last 5 seasons have been rife with the idea of redemption, that who you are is not made up of any one (or any several) moments in time; there is an essential character to us all which gets obscured by life. I think Jacob sees the good in people and believes that when you bring the good in each person to the surface, you advance mankind as a whole (a step forward). With that in mind, I think we are going to see, one by one, each character's redemption whether by Jacob's instruction or through his hand. He's clearly dead, but not gone. And I think this is what was meant by having to choose...you have to choose faith, and therefore redemption and if you don't, by default, you choose the dark side.

And yeah, Sayid is still hot.

Certainly the concept of having choice keeps coming up.

I wonder if Sayid will now be Jacob (or visa versa).

If so, I vote we call him Jayid. ;)

Amazon is taking pre-orders for Lost: The Complete Collection

I am not usually a spin off kind of guy, but I'd love some sort of Lost prequel show when this is over. That'd be cool.

Finally had a chance to watch it.

It seemed to me that Jack almost didn't recognize himself in the mirror (just before he found the mark on his neck).

When Sayid was lying "dead" by the pool, I think the ghost whisperer guy new (or suspected) he wasn't dead and didn't want to say anything to Hurley.

I don't think Jacob necessarily represents "good", and Esau "evil". I have a feeling it's going to turn out to be more like the "Vorlon=order/Shadows=chaos" situation in Babylon5.

I still think the guy playing Jacob is hot.

I wonder if there is any relation to Jacks's neck mark and Daniels neck bandage....does anyone remember how he got the bandage on his neck?

That's true, it could have been a time jump. Let's say when Juliet hit the bomb it didn't go off, but they jumped in time instead. That would explain a few things, like the fact that they survived an explosion that should have also made a bigger hole than that. It would also explain how the hatch had been finished before it was blown up.

In fact, perhaps there are many different timelines. I love this stuff!

Oh, and I think Desmond has been on the planet all along....

;)

Why not both?

Actually, I think Sayid just took the fissionable part of the hydrogen bomb....so the crater probably was just about right. Nevertheless, the crater we are looking at was from Desmonds fail-safe key, not Jacks bomb.......unless they are one in the same:eek:

I think you've got it!

In the enhanced series recap before the season premiere the captioning states clearly "bomb detonation".

fwiw

This makes me wonder if Jacob has killed people (or rather, made other people kill each other) for less than "good" purposes. Esau has definitely done so. I don't think Jacob has done anything malicious, but I'm not a walking LOST encyclopedia...

It wouldn't suprise me. We know his followers have used violence in his cause.

What about Walt?

If we are to take what we saw last week as a timeline split...in other words, there are now 2 Jack's(one on the Island and one not), two Sawyers(one on the Island and one not), two Kate's, etc.......

What about those who crashed on the Island but already got back before the Oceanic 6?

What will Walt say to himself if he ever meets himself?

....jeeesh, no wonder this kid is special, there's two of em;)

From my most recent experience, the price will drop significantly within a few months of release. The much anticipated Farscape boxed set was released for $120 or $150 and a few months later it dropped to $63. Now it's $59.99

Bite your tongue!

Oh, well if you want to get technical about it :p

We better find out more about Walt. If he was so damn special (we were told that how many times? and we went on a rescue mission and found the other island because of him, why?) we need to know why. If it turns out it was just a plot vehicle I'm going to be pissed. I don't care of the actor is now 16, 6ft2 and baritone. I want to know!

I say no, no, no to a spin off. For me, the most satisfying ending will be one that has answered the big questions (and a relatively high number of the smaller ones) but has left just enough unanswered that I am still ruminating over the series' meaning long after it's over.

(I do, however, want to be assured that Vincent is safe. :D)

I'd be surprised if Vincent doesn't turn out to be Jacob. And the Hurleybird.

Walt is the best evidence that the writers made all this up as they went along.

Any show that knows they are going to be reshooting the same scenes over and over again, even 5 years down the line, is NOT going to cast a child. He couldn't even stay young enough to last more than a short while. As a result, we may have a split timeline but we are not going to see Walt and Michael in LA X, unless they go the soap opera route and cast the role with a new kid.

It's a bummer, since I liked their story a lot.

we knew they were shooting from the hip. Michael Emerson was only supposed to be a short part and ended up being a regular and one of the most intriguing characters on the show.

The writers vehemently argue that they always had a story to tell and that they knew it would take them 6 seasons to do it (and in fact told the network that at the begining).

Having said that, I don't think having Walt in the original story means anything (re them not knowing where it's going). The sideways timeline is clearly not a continuation of what would have happened had the plane never crashed, things vary like Shannon, Michael and Claire not being on the plane. There is every possibility that in the sideways timeline Walt never existed in Michael's reality.

I'm sure it's a little of both. They may have had the broad strokes of the story arc in mind, however the details of how they were going to get from A to B had to at the very least have a lot of flexibility built in.

Among other things, it would have been lunacy to plan for a 5 year show (that was their original plan, stretched to 7 after it proved successful) and not have a way to deal with unexpected things like cast members leaving, popularity waning, unexpected popularity of what they thought would be a minor character.

The way I figure it, they had big picture things like, "The island is moving in time", "there was a society of scientists there beforehand", and "the island is a complex analogy for the greek concepts of hades and the river styx" or whatever it turns out being. But the details of who is working with whom, or against whom, or the mechanics behind how and why the island might be moving in time would by necessity had to have remained fluid.

They always said they had an ending and a 5 year plan (it was supposed to end last year but the writers strike extended it). What's left as filler is up to debate if they had that planned out. I think some of it was, but a lot of it seems like they got distracted by a shiny object and followed it a different direction.

I stick with what I said earlier:

I would add that there have been wrenches thrown into their plan (i.e. Micael Emerson) that they have decided to incorporate into the story and/or had to explain them away. I also think the idea that they had planned the story from the begining doesn't mean they had the entire story fleshed out; it merely means that they had their story arc, they knew the story they wanted to tell. The specifics have been fleshed out as circumstances changed and the story was being told.




eta: Of course now I could just sum up my thoughts as, "I agree with GD."

LOST Series 6 starts in Australia tonight - although they are showing TWO episodes back to back. Maybe we'll catch up to you guys one of these days.

Until you west coasters have a chance to watch I'll just say:


"What?!"

and

"Noooo...not Sayid!"



And something to think about that Michael Emerson said in an interview:

"What if you saw what the show meant, but couldn't recognize it?"




Until tomorrow....

:mad: errr, that's kind of a spoiler, no?

Not in the way you think, it's more of a commentary. So...don't worry, the comment shouldn't ruin anything.


I also posted above a "cryptic spoiler" that Michael Emerson gave which makes me REALLY scratch my head.

Still a spoiler. And I finished the episode. Anything that hasn't been aired is a spoiler. Just have some courtesy and don't post something someone else could construe as a spoiler without spoiler tags and everyone will be happy.

LB - Season 6 started last week with LAX 1 and 2. Is that what you saw tonight?

Yep - a retrospective 1 hour catchup, then the first two episodes - another two hours, for a three-hour total LOST-fest. I really enjoyed it.

...I didn't spot Brad, though. :D

and I wanna know after watching the first two episodes...

I think it was to keep Smoky/UnLocke in. And I think that Ben only thinks he can control the smoke monster. He's got to be not so sure now...

I love that they air the previous weeks episode in a pop up "Lost for Dummies" edition. It helps my mass confusion.

Err, why are you opening the thread before you've seen this week's episode? Seems pretty basic to me.

I agree with Steph. If you don't want to know don't look. I always look cause I need all the spoilers I can get to try to figure out what's going on :)

I thought we had a rule that once an episode had been televised that nothing was from that episode was considered to be a spoiler. This was to prevent everything in a thread from being in spoiler tags. it is the responsibility of the person who hasn't yet seen it to avoid the thread.

Yup, looks like you guys are a week behind us.

As for the spoiler issue.. yes, if you look it's your own damn fault. But to post something like "well all I'll say is......" is.. I dunno. It rubbed me the wrong way. Sorry.

I got to wonder.......in Season 3 we have Sun shooting a woman(name escapes me) who Jack is then forced to operate on.

In Season 5 we have little Ben shot by Sayid.....and then taken to the Temple to be healed.

In Season 6 we have Sayid himself the victim of a gunshot wound also taken to the temple to be healed.

Why was the first woman not taken to the temple?

This show is starting to rub me the wrong way:mad:

I'm digging Rousseau-ified Claire. I wonder if she is "infected" the same way Rousseau's team was. I think Sayid is.

On another board they are thinking Claire is Smoky. I'm going to be pissed if everything and everyone is explained off as being manifestation of Smoky.

K, wait...so if I would have said, "When (specific thing) happened to Sayid, it really sucked." would have been fine but, "Nooooo, not Sayid!" isn't.

I see Lost 2 hours before most of you. I try to be very cognizant of the fact that if I come in here and say anything, I might ruin it for others. Having said that, I'm not the only one who sees it in an earlier feed and I do think, since this thread is rife with spoilers, it is my responsibility not to look in here if an episode has been aired and I haven't seen it.

I don't believe what I said spoiled anything...however, I am sincerely sorry if I ruined anyone's viewing of last night's episode.




FWIW...

My commentary was directed at Sayid possibly having been infected and is now "dark". Of all of the characters, I believe Sayid is the one who has redeemed himself the most. To lose that redemption on chance seems unfair. On the other hand, I believe that it further fleshes out the themes of faith, redemption, fate and free will.

Yes it's read at your own risk, but when someone starts a post specifically saying they are being cognizant that people haven't seen it yet, I am lead to believe that I can safely read the post w/out there being spoilers. And in my book you posted the equivalent of, "This episode doesn't end well for Sayid." No, there were no specifics, and that's not exactly the biggest shocker in the world, but watching the episode knowing for sure that the green pill was definitely not going to be helping Sayid rather spoiled the dramatic tension of the episode.

I guess I'll follow a strict policy of not opening this thread on Tuesdays.

As I said, I am sincerely (no sarcasm) sorry that my comment ruined the experience.

On one hand, it was agreed that once the episode aired it was free game. It's general internet status-quo these days, message boards threads = ok, FB/Twitter = bad. At least in my circles of the internet. On the other hand, with most of LoT in the Pacific time zone sometimes it doesn't occur to not open a thread. At least for me.

I read at Television Without Pity and over there it is my own damn fault if I open their episode specific thread.

Maybe we can use spoiler tags for 24 or 48 hours after airing? That way someone who hasn't caught up (The Lashes as a prime example) can read without being spoiled. Or for that matter, since the Lashes are a week behind, maybe we should just use spoiler tags for a week? It shouldn't be that hard, we do it in movie threads for several weeks after opening date.

Just a suggestion.

I know better than to open this thread until after I've watched the episode. Of course, if someone's watched the episode in some flash-forward time zone before it's available for me, I might forget. Hmm. So, reminder to me, don't open this thread after 6pm on the night the episode airs, until after I've watched it.

How about we just agree not to say "I know you haven't seen it yet on your coast, so I won't post a spoiler...oh wait, yes I will."

It needn't be more complex than that. ;)

Sheesh.

Okay, hows about I just don't post in this thread until a couple of days after an episode airs? Presumably, that will satisfy everyone.

Trust, if I'd had a freakin' clue that saying, "Nooooo, not Sayid!" was such a episode defining/spoiling statement, I wouldn't have gone anywhere near there...seriously...who the fvck knew?

I regret that my mea culpa is unsatisfactory to some of you. I will make damn sure it doesn't happen again. Presumably, everyone else will take note and learn from my experience as well.

And yeah, I know I'm now being a b!tch. And really, since the horse is now dead, I don't care. :rolleyes:

I accept your apology (guess I should have said so) - I'm saying that this is a singular occurrence and not something we need to make rules about.

I'm just not going to post here anymore. That should solve the pesky problem of me living in the incorrect time zone.

Well, since I will only watch Lost when the Brad episode airs, doesn't bother me one iota. ;)

Since I don't normally post in this thread, it might be inappropriate throw my .02 now, but...

I almost never watch Lost when it's on "live". Sometimes I watch it a day late, sometimes almost a week. Since I know that it starts airing at 5:00 my time on the East Coast, I make sure not to open the thread starting from that moment until the time I've completed watching the episode. The same goes for Survivor.

If this was the Soooo thread, I'd say that spoiler tags would be appropriate, but in a specialized thread like this, why is there even an iota of an issue?

I don't get it.

It's LoT, we make things difficult when they don't need to be.

:D

You can't YAGE from the Lost Thread. The Thread brought you here for a reason, and will bring you back.

Again, the only reason I had an issue with it is because the post specifically started by saying it wouldn't have any spoilers.

Rolling on the floor laughing my butt off funny.....

:snap: :snap: :snap: :snap: :snap: :snap:

Don't use spoilers for me, cos I often come here looking to get me some prior knowledge (I read the last page of mystery novels, too.)

VGn2DLM !!! :snap: :snap: :snap:

Our experience in labor and delivery at a hospital is far too fresh in my memory for that episode. That whole scene was a ridiculous series of, "That would never happen. No way that would happen. Not a chance in hell that would happen."

I doubt if the following can spoil anything but it is based on spoiler information/speculation so read at your own risk:)

But it's the alternate space/time "happy" Lost world. So it's OK! <Tongue firmly in cheek>

I also thought that there was no way Kate would be driving that cab all over LA and not be caught. Every cop in SoCal would be looking for it.

That made my head hurt.

I thought that too. And don't cabs have GPS stuff on them so the cab company can see where they are? It's not like NY where there are cabs everywhere, a cab sticks out a litttle more in LA.

About tonight's episode

So now we sort of know what the numbers mean, but what happens now that #4 (Locke) is gone?

Someone suggested that the equation has changed and the total is now different. It would be hilarious if the sum of the numbers in the end was 42.

There's also the issue of Kate's name not being listed.

Wonder if the blond boy is Aaron, or youngJacob starting over.

Maybe aaron is young jacob.

I am starting to wonder if Aaron, Jacob, Blonde Boy, MiB, Smokie and the Candidate are all one in the same.....which would explain why MiB can't kill Sawyer.

They can't kill Sawyer because Sawyer brings the sexy.

I still don't understand what they mean. Yeah, Jacob scrawled them on the cave next to people's names, but what does that actually mean?

In the flash-sideways, Locke is still with Helen. During the marriage conversation, Helen suggests they have a Vegas wedding with just her parents and Locke's father. In Locke's original backstory, his father "stole" Locke's kidney and caused Locke to become handicapped. In the FS, Locke is still handicapped and apparently on good terms with his father. So how did he lose the use of his legs in the FS?

I caught that too, SM. Found it odd and way too blatant for the writes to miss, right?

Also, Ben working as a European History teacher in the FS. But Young Ben was on the island in 1977 when the atom bomb went off. How? What? Huh?

I thought all of the women and children were sent away on the sub.

Ah. I forgot about that. Now it's not so much a question of "what is he doing there" as it is "what's he going to do now"...being a former inhabitant of the island and all.

Nothing is unintentional.

I'm curious what the significance of Helen's black nailpolish is. Possibly just foreshadowing (sideshadowing?) Locke becoming the Man in Black?

---If Rose's boss is Hugo, why on Earth didn't she say "hello" to her boss on the plane?


---So far we've seen both Kate and Jack have looks on their faces which indicated some sort of deja vu.....was it just me or did Locke kinda have a lost memory come back to him when he was getting wet from the sprinklers?

---If MiB is stuck with Locke's face(as Illana indicated) does that mean Christian, who appeared to Sun and Lepidus after MiB was seen walking around as Locke IS NOT the Smoke Monster/MiB?

---Are the names we didn't see on the cave wall more significant then the ones we did? Kate? Lepidus? Hume?

Maybe she only knew his name, not what he looks like.

Why would it necessarily mean that? She said he's stuck as Locke now, that doesn't mean he couldn't be someone else before. Maybe he can no longer change because Jacob's dead, or some other thing that's changed since he was Christian.

There's always been allusions to the fact that no all of the survivors were equals. The Others always referred to things like "He's one of the good ones". So the fact that some names are there and others aren't isn't really a surprise. I wouldn't say that the names that aren't there are more significant, it just begs the question of what the difference between the names that are there and the names that aren't is.

He said he just bought the company. Maybe he didn't own it when they were on the plane. Or, maybe she'd rather not say hi to the owner of a company who may or may not have any idea who she is.

Or maybe they knew each other and were just sitting in different places therefore not interacting.


Regarding the "candidates" names in the cave and the little blonde boy notLocke was chasing...

23- Shephard

Does it refer to Jack or Aaron (who, since Claire is Christian's daughter is, indeed, a Shepard)?

Smoked Lox said that Jacob came to each person and guided them to the island, so that wouldn't be Aaron. I suppose it could be since linear time obviously doesn't matter, but it'd be kinda odd that the 6 number would refer to 5 adults and 1 unborn person.

But that brings up questions:

Was Christian Shepard (when seen on the island) really Jacob? If so, he touched Aaron.

Why did Claire survive to give birth to Aaron when babies never survived to be born on the island?

Why was Claire hanging out in the cabin where Jacob supposedly dwelt? (Yes, I know most now assume that the being in the cabin was MIB, but was it really?)

Can we believe MIB when he says Jacob was "guiding" them to the island? Or was it a case of redemption? As of now (until proven otherwise), I think anything the MIB says should be viewed with a jaundiced eye, especially when it's pretty clear he's attempting to manipulate Sawyer into his corner. I think it is in his (MIB) best interest to cast doubt on Jacob in order to manipulate things in his favor and prevent the ascendancy of a "substitute".


Another question bothering me is if it was Jacob's list, why hadn't Locke's name already crossed off?

Couldn't Shephard be Claire as well?

Absolutely.

I seem to recall Juliet mentioning something about the lateness of Claire's term when she arrived on the island which allowed her to survive. But the drug may have also played a part.

But Claire's last name isn't Shephard.

Not legally. But her dad is a Shephard. That logic will rule Aaron out since his dad wouldn't be a Shephard.

But Sawyer is up there as Ford which is his "real" last name. How do we know that Shephard isn't Claires?

Claire's last name is Littleton. Probably her mother's last name.

I don't think it's going to be Claire. She has the "sickness".

Why is it so hard to believe that "Shephard" referrs to Jack?

Agreed, especially since in that cave they showed some very specific flashbacks of Jacob touching people, including Jack.

I think it most likely is Jack.

I do not think it is Claire.

I am intrigued by the possibility of it being Aaron.


I'm still curious as to whose list it really is.

I love Lostpedia.

These are bits from the current episode's page's"Cultural References" section:

Wow, Willy Wonka. Talk about throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. :rolleyes:

The producers are known to purposely load the show with cultural references. Is the Wonka resemblance intentional or a coincidence? I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past them.

The Wonka seems particularly like a stretch since it starts out with, "If you remove one of the people, THEN it matches exactly!" I always question a "reference" that relies on "if you change something about this situation, it totally matches this other situation."

So are we going to refer to him as:
MIB
Smoky
NotLocke
Unlocke
Smoked Lox

We should try to keep our nomenclature the same so we don't get confused ;)

I quite like Unlocke, but since he has been other people as well, then MIB (Man In Black) also gets my vote.

What do Y'all think?

I will continue to refer to him with whatever name carries the most comedic effect at the time of posting.

Around my office he is referred to as Flock, for Fake Locke.

I also saw LockeNess used somewhere.

I've been calling him Smokey Locke for lack of a better name. But I like UnLocke!

Smocke?

Ah, remember the oh so innocent days of "Nothenry" and "Benry"?

I am not 100% sure this fake Locke character is the MiB so for now I am just going to go with -Fake Locke-, or Flocke if that is preferred.

Really? Why? Seems to me they've made every effort to make that clear.

Which is why he probably isn't.

Riiiight. If that's the way we're going, then what exactly is the basis of any conversation regarding the show again?

Rampant speculation?

The Internet Anagram Server ("I, Rearrangement Servant") says that "John Locke Smokey" really is:

Shlock Omen Jokey

It all fits.

Whom did the blond headed kid (Jacob? Aaron?) mean when he said, "you can't kill him." to NotLocke?

Hmmm...the 1st time around I thought he meant Jacob. But now I don't. Did he mean Sawyer?

And what's up with Sawyer being able to see him but not Richard?

Because Sawyer is a "candidate"?
<shrug>

He was behind Richard, he could have run away before Richard turned around.

You mean, ignore what actually happened on the show and make things up? Ask endless questions about things they have already made clear?

IMO, running around in circles for no reason other than to show that we're "thinking outside the box" clutters the conversation to the point where the real questions up for debate are lost in the noise.

Such as?

I lean towards thinking Flocke and MiB are the same person(after all, Jacob did say "looks like you found that loophole") but I do have some doubts.

IIRC the lost producers have confirmed that it is smokey/MiB that is now in Locke's form. I'll try and dig it up after work today.

Such as? The quote you just provided is proof enough.

There's always the possibility of a differing perspective on what is, and is not, clear.

Not to mention the fact that rampent speculation is sometimes fun.

Looking at the list of names on Lostpedia (not sure if all of the lighthouse names have made it up there yet...actually I know they haven't because Wallace at 108 isn't listed_ a couple observations:

1. Miles is alive, but his name is crossed out. Last we saw Rose, she was alive and her name is crossed out, though we don't know what happened to her and Bernard after the bomb/flash. Claire's name is also crossed out, questionable whether she should be counted as "alive"

2. Kate is the only name that isn't crossed out that has a number that isn't one of The Numbers.

I'm racking my brain, I forget how Jack learned that Claire's his sister.

Not sure if the crossed out means alive or dead, instead I am thinking it's candidate vs. not candidate.

I think he found the name and staked out the house in Australia. Or Christian told him on the island. I know it sounds like I am randomly thinking of things but those two stick out in my mind.

----------

It was established last week, or the week before that MIB has taken Locke's shape. [blanking on her name] said he couldn't change shape now.

Rampant speculation was super fun the first 5 seasons. They are answering questions (more than they are tossing up new ones) and to start speculating on the answers they are giving us is going to provide a never-ending story. Established canon (answered questions) is canon no matter how much fanon wants to be something else.

They answered where the numbers come from. Cool.

Soooo.... Any bets on who David's mother is?

Kate is a criminal on the run and wouldn't have a house
Claire is his sister
He doesn't seem to have any ethnic traits so I am guessing Sun, Rose and Anna Lucia are out.


That leaves Juliet, Shannon and Danielle. I'll guess Danielle.

Could be his wife from his original life.

It's LOST!, it can't be that simple ;)

Well, it's not tomorrow, but since "spoilering" (if not speculation) is rampant...

Who the f is "Wallace"? (At 108*, the point Hurley was told to turn the wheel to.) Speaking of which...Lighthouse wheel/Donkey wheel; how are they related?

Cave= dark= MIB
Lighthouse= light= Jacob
(I just KNOW it's not going to be that cut and dry)

Christian and MIB are not one and the same. Claire said she was hanging with her father and a "friend"-- friend=NotLocke. So, who (or what) the hell is Christian?

I read on another board that "Littleton" was on the lighthouse list...I didn't see it myself though.

"Linus" was crossed out. (Did anyone catch the #?)

Question for anyone who remembers from a few seasons ago:

Ben had a list of survivors; was it a list just of the kids, or of "candidates"? I wonder where he got said list because he thought he had been interacting with Jacob the whole time when I think it's somewhat clear that he had actually been being guided by MIB all along which brings up another thought...

Jacob said it was too late for the people still at the temple because someone (something?) bad was coming (to the temple); which leads one to wonder if Miles will be around (or eligible) for much longer (possibly why his name is crossed out). Everyone assumes the temple is Jacob's domain but is it really MIB's instead (after all, Smokey dwelt there at some point)?


And maybe I'm just contrary but I have to say that a big part of the fun of Lost (even in this last season) is continuing speculation on what it all means, including whether or not what we've been told (or led to believe) is the truth is, in fact, such. But that's me.

Danielle's too old.

There's Libby, Penelope, Ilana (my personal choice based on David's coloring and her connection with Jacob), Charlotte, Nikki, hmmm...it seems like I'm still missing a couple....

I think there's been a lot of speculation about one of the overriding themes of the show being free will vs destiny. Jack has always done what "needed" to be done; what he "should" do. What if he is offered the world (or the island, as the case may be), and he chooses not to take it? It has certainly been hinted that he is the chosen one.


(I'd really like to hear Alex's ruminations on how/whether free will plays into any of this.)

It was at Christian Shepard's funeral (Claire's mother told Jack she'd lost her daughter on flight 815).

But she was clearly aware that, while he looks like Locke, he's not Locke. So I don't think it rules out, and I think it remains by far most likely, that Christian is MIB/Smokey and she's just on board with the shape-shifting. Especially since MIB-as-Locke didn't exist for most of the 3 years she said she spent with "her friend".

Linus was 117. Forgot to add him to the alive-and-crossed out list.

Surely, but at some point the "throw absolutely everything at the wall and see what sticks" becomes overkill. Sure, the CIA could be giving mind controlling drugs to the Loch Ness Monster who is actually a diplomatic emissary from the race of aliens that crashed in Roswell and that actually created the island to amuse their child-king, and that absolutely nothing we've been shown for the last 6 seasons ever actually happened in the character's universe. But that would seem to have made creating 6 seasons of show that showed something completely different a pointless exercise for the producers.

There are already plenty of mysteries on the table. For instance, what exactly are "candidates" and what does "replacing Jacob" mean? What are Jacob and MIB, why are they so interested in candidates. Why are these people we've been following candidates, and how do the concepts of free will vs. destiny come into play? That's a TON to think and speculate about without further assuming that the little we do no is simply wrong. Actually, I find it far more interesting to assume everything is true, just true in a way that we don't yet understand. So when they show the name "Shephard", associated with one of the #'s that Jack has been dealing with, and then immediately show Jack, speculating that somehow the name might refer to some other people that aren't even named Shepherd...just seems an unnecessary distraction.

Of course, then there's the whole MIB-out-of-nowhere crap. I still call b.s. on that, so maybe the Locke Ness monster isn't far behind, what do I know.

Aaaaah, right, thank you!

Since Gemini Cricket doesn't watch the show, there's no one west of Pacific Time that's watching, once it's aired in Pacific Time spoilers are fair game.

But she made a distinction between her father and her "friend" and that she lived with both of them. She then specifically referred to NotLocke as her "friend" (i.e. not her father).

Duh. 108= sum of the "candidate" numbers.

But still, WTF is Wallace?

She said "her father"? I missed that. When Jin first asked her if she'd been alone, she said, "No, I was with my friend". Then when somked lox arrived she said, "This is my friend". I never heard "father".

Two different sentences - one was that her "father" told her who took Aaron. The other was she was "with my friend".

It is possible that Christian was MIB when they all left. For all we know, if Smoky wasn't stuck in Locke form now (done for a purpose obviously) he'd still shapeshift into Christian. But Smoky is stuck in Lockeform from now until they tell us otherwise - which I don't think will happen since IIlana (that's her name!) said he can't change anymore.

Yeah, other resources confirmed, I just missed the line. That does open the possibility that Christian isn't MIB, if she makes a distinction between NotLocke and her "father". Or it may just mean she's confused, or purposely misled.

For those who were still on the fence* about FLocke being the Smoke Monster, we now have 100% confirmation from multiple sources. Last night's enhanced version of "Substitute" confirmed that FLocke is the Smoke Monster. In addition, Darlton unequivocally stated the same thing on the most recent Lost Podcast.


*I was not part of that group

Actually, Ben admitted to never having seen Jacob. So perhaps he never interacted with either Jacob or MIB and just lied the whole time. Though he certainly could have spoken with one of them, thinking it was Jacob, without actually having seen them.

I saw the actor who plays Ben on The Soup the other day. He's pretty funny!

He's been making the rounds of talk shows too. Guess he's trying to stay visible now that he's unemployed.

Michael Emerson is awesomely creepy.

So's the guy who plays Ethan.

I have a curiosity about something they haven't picked up yet this season....where's Widmore? Is Widmore the guy that Jacob needs to find the island?

I don't really think Jacob needs anyone to find the island. That was just part of the ruse to get Jack to the lighthouse. If anything, Jacob's attempting to stop someone from finding the island (you have to assume he knew Jack would smash the mirrors).

He has a beautiful smile and is pretty good looking when he's not looking so Ethany.

He looks like Will Forte.

Y'all know he's Tom Cruise's cousin, right?

Yes.

Just a thought...

Sawyer is candidate #15

Kate is #51 on the lighthouse wheel

Mirror images? Seems more than coincidence. And what did Jacob mean when he said to young Kate, "Be good"? Did he mean "behave", or did he mean, be "good", as opposed to say, "evil"? Are Sawyer and Kate being set up as the MIB/Jacob of the future?

Some things to ponder:

Way back in season 2 Sun lost her wedding ring.....she didn't find it until she stopped looking for it.

But now the law of finding something seems to be reversed.....can't find a 40 foot tall lighthouse unless you are looking for it:rolleyes:

Dogen, Illana, and Richard all seem to think the Temple is the safest place for the Losties......and they claim to be followers of Jacob......why does Jacob himself believe otherwise?

Back in Season 2 we have Mr. Friendly wearing a fake beard and all of the others supposedly acting like they are a group of tattered hillbillies....only to find out they actually live in suburbia.....now, come to find out they(at least the ones in the temple) live more like the hillbillies than the suburbanites:confused:

Continuing along with that thought are we EVER going to find out why Ben was so upset with Mr. Friendly for not wearing his disguise??? I got a feeling we are not:mad:

After watching David's concert Dogen comes up to Jack and says "It's hard to watch and be unable to help"......which leads one to think that perhaps this alternated Dogen knows more than our alternate Losties.....but the word "watch" really stuck out to me as it is the same word used by Cindy three seasons ago:

I am totally LOST:)

Because MiB broke the rules? (just a guess)

I always though The Others did that so they'd look like other (previous) crash survivors. Had the Others approached the Losties dressed in non-tattered clothes, the Losties would certainly wonder how this was possible, start asking questions, and seek them out. When Mr. Friendly broke the illusion, Ben got pissed.

<shrug>

Because, as Ben proved by admitting he'd never seen Jacob, they only THINK they know what Jacob wants. Likely possibilities are that they were actually being given instructions by MIB rather than Jacob, or that they were receiving instructions for Jacob but Jacob was not honest about his goals and that his protection of them was limited only until such time as protecting them no longer suited his needs.

Was it Jacob in the rocking chair inside the cabin a few years ago? Or was that smokey taking a human form? I forget :(

Sounds pretty good:snap:

That is the 64 million dollar question.......:confused:

I forgot the third option - they're all entirely deluded and never received instructions from anyone with neither Jacob nor the MIB not caring one whit what happened to them ever.


And of course this being Lost, and considering the slight of hand they pulled by introducing the MIB out of nowhere, maybe it'll turn out that Jack is not actually Jack, but a manifestation of some Woman in Gray who we've never been introduced to before or something.

Unknown. The implication at the time was that the shadowy figure in the rocking chair was actually Jacob. By the time Christian and Claire showed up at the Cabin, they were strongly implicating that Jacob definitely no longer was there, but left open the question of whether the first figure we saw was Jacob, or if Jacob had ever been there.

It sorta fits with how everything has played out.

I think we understand now from Ilana's declaration that Jacob had not been in that cabin for a long time that it was the MiB who was occupying it when Locke and Ben first went there together. We know that Claire is on the same team as the MiB and/or Christian so it all makes sense looking back at Locke's solo visit to the cabin when he first meets Christian and Claire is sitting there.

The plan for the island to be moved may have had nothing to do with Keamy and the rest of Widmore's crew. It could have been part of the MiBs loophole to get Locke off the island, die and then have his body brought back to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. Maybe this is why Christian scolded Locke that -HE- was supposed to move the island, not Ben. So...when we look back to that first visit to the cabin with Locke and Ben it makes perfectly good sense that the Dark Man..MiB... said to Locke "help me."

Odds are the figure that Locke saw in the rocking chair was not Smokey because at that point the cabin was surrounded by ash, which thus far has shown no other purpose than fending off Smokey (though perhaps different ash fends off different beings). Whether that means it was actually Jacob or not is unresolvable. Though, even with just a shadowy profile, he certainly didn't look anything like Jacob as we know him now.

Good point.

MIB = Smoky. So I look at it as Oh look, smoky is a security system for the island and takes human form for a double doubleyou tee efff situation. Is human form smoky blocked by the sonic alarm system?

The ash circle around the cabin was broken. Maybe he was smoky in human form and since the ring was broken he escaped. We don't know when the ash ring was broken - it could have been before 815 crashed. Though that doesn't explain how Ben was able to call/control smoky in Dharmaville to kill Kermey.

Oh, was just reminded of this scanning through Lostpedia. Jacob's last words after Ben stabbed him. "They're coming", and pseudoLocke seemed surprised by him saying that.

So perhaps the temple IS the safest place to protect one's self...from MIB/Smokey, but not from whomever "They" are.

I'm not satisfied by that. Smokey was never presented as a personality, more as a tool. Sure smokey seemed to have some sort of intelligence, but what we saw was very very limited. To suddenly expand that into, "Oh, actually, Somkey is a form taken by a being that's essentially on par with Jacob, previously presented as the most powerful individual in the story," was to introduce a HUGE source of power and intelligence way late in the game. A bit of a cheat IMO in that it made it entirely impossible to have been making any accurate guesses about who was running the show when.

I was going to suggest that the ash circle was meant to keep Smokey IN, but Smokey was out and about the whole time they were on the island, and the ash circle wasn't broken when Locke and Ben visited. So that seems unlikely (or sloppily handled by the writers).

Oooh...I like it:D

Perhaps that is who Jacob neeed to help find the island at the lighthouse....if he really needed to. There are theories of course that this was all about Jack, not anything to do with bringing anyone to the island.

That's what I mostly figured, although when Hurley is concerned about the someone not finding the island now that the lighthouse is busted, Jacob says something to indicate that someone is still tying to find the island, but that may have just been to placate Hurley.

And the number he told Hurley to turn to is 108.

Who is 108?

the name that showed at 108 was Wallace, but no one seems to know who Wallace is.

The name that was on there (Wallace) is one that's never been mentioned in the show. 108 is the sum total of The Numbers (same as the # of seconds between Desmond's button pushings). Since the whole exercise of getting Jack and Hurely to the lighthouse was a bit of a wild goose chase just to shake Jack up, it's entirely possible that Jacob chose 108 just because he had to pick some # to get them to move the mirrors, not necessarily because "Wallace" is anyone special (or, anymore special than any of the other candidates).

One meaning of the name Wallace is stranger or foreigner. Charles Widmore would be a foreigner. (Although technically, I guess anyone other than Jacob and/or MIB could be considered "foreigners"-- although almost all of the islanders sound American.)

Whomever he is, I'll be he really likes cheese.

ftfy





Or it could actually be Jack......he walks among us but isn't one of us

Heh, yeah, 108 seconds would have been a very different existence in the hatch for Desmond.

I was thinking about who might be "coming" to the island. In an interview, Lindelof and Cuse said that Jacob was telling the truth, someone important is coming to the island (but didn't say when).

It's LOST, I see no reason why Jack can't be the one coming to the Island;)

Heck, maybe 815 will crash again:eek:

However ......



Don't read this if you don't want to be spoiled.....

Jeff, you need to specify what you're spoiling! I thought it was for tonight Grrrr. Luckily I have a short term memory.

Tonight's episode. No spoilers since it just finished in the Pacific time, GC doesn't watch and Lash has said he doesn't care.

Holy hell Naveen Andrews can rock a tight black tanktop. I was kinda distracted by the amount of pretty that was.

I'm not really digging the black = evil. It's to easy. The ending was frelling awesomely creepy and for the first time in a very long time I was disappointed it ended there.

Mmm, yeah, black tank top was very pretty.

Okay, as I was watching, I remembered that GC was an extra? Did I miss his show?

That was an incredible episode.

So when is Claire gonna try to off Kate?

I believe he daid episode 12 of the season or so. Believe me, you'll hear the sirens.

And that WAS an incredible episode. It had so much going for it. Murder, random groups of characters running through scenes out of nowhere, some good ol' smokey slaughter. Awesome awesome awesome.

Or not.

I was bummed to see Dogen get killed, but man was it satisfying to watch his little bitch get it.

I don't like where it seems to be going.

I guess we can assume Kate and Sawyer are going to team up.

Wait. NotLocke more or less said he could give Nadia back to Sayid. In the sideways world, Sayid has Nadia back (in a sense). Is the sideways world also MIB's world; one in which he has given people what they want (but maybe not specifically how they thought they would get it)?

NotLocke also told Claire the Others had Aaron. I wouldn't take him at his word.

Spoiler about what the island may be:

Well, Kate may be considered an "other" now...and she has Aaron (more or less).

In this theory, I don't think MIB is giving out what people want in the way they want it. Kind of like King Midas' wish to be able to turn everything he touched to gold didn't work out quite the way he envisioned.

I had a similar thought last night.

It would seem that Jacob sucks at making deals with people as well if what Dogen said is accurate in the story of his son. But in the alternate world with the piano competition, his son was still alive.

I am probably alone in finding last night's episode totally meh. Despite all the cool action and the very pretty-in-black-tanktop Sayid, nothing really happened that we didn't know was happening.

It was basically a Seyid story that showed the mechanics of what we've been told since the season's 2nd episode would occur - i.e., he's been "claimed" and is evil and will align himself with MiB. Ok, so that's about all that happened - except we were treated to some cool alternates in the sideways world and, yeah, some cool action on the island.

But it's what? Nearing the halfway point of the final season? I want some movement in the story. I am not happy with the meandering of taking an entire episode to move the story precisely one inch.


Maybe some stuff in the sideways world moved forward. I couldn't tell. So it seemed like a placeholder episode to me. Sorry, but Yawn.




(I generally find Lost seasons to start off slow and pick up steam around the halfway point. But I expected a more steady flow of movement in the final season. There's a lot to wrap up, and still provide enough new stuff to entertain. I don't think there's too much time for dithering.)

Thanks. I swear, I forgot. I was so thrilled when he announced it, I told the entire family. Then, time goes by...I forgot.

The show. I find it kind of creepy. LOL The looks all seem to be creepy. Angry.

I have to say, I was thrilled at what Sayid ended up doing. But, it seems to me we are having to put too many things together for ourselves about what happened on their 'arrival' back in L.A.

Steve! Welcome back!

There are 10 more episodes until the 2 hour series finale, and then the series is done for good. I agree with you they could move things along a bit more at this point. I'm with you, I expected it to hit floor running, and find my self a tad dissapointed.

No, you are not.


We now have another episode to compete with What Kate Does for Sucking.......although to be fair, last nights episode was merely a top of the line Hoover compared to that 7 A.U. wide black hole Kate Centric fiasco.

Maybe I wouldn't be quite so upset with these slow moving shows if they wouldn't stop advertising them as a -questions will be answered- episode. The only questions answered last night were posed this year.....I want old questions answered and since there are something like 30 major and another 400 minor points to be addressed I feel like they're wasting our time....I don't care about a new characters baseball story.......in fact, the very presence of these new characters rubs me the wrong way:mad:

End rant.

Regarding that weird, confused look Flocke gave Kate at the end of last nights show.......Kate isn't on the cave wall but her name does appear in the Lighthouse....could it be that she's a candidate and Flocke doesn't know?

I'm starting to think that short of everyone's favorite character stepping off the TV screen and giving the viewers oral pleasure*, almost everyone is going to end up being "very disappointed" this season. Perhaps it's the producers'/ABC's fault for tacking on the extra seasons beyond the the original 5 year plan which has built the fervor to epic proportions, but it seems like everyone's expectations are sky high, to a degree that no TV show could ever hope to match.

I expect no clear answers until the final minute of the final episode. Everything is one giant 7-season long house of cards. There's some lynchpin bit of information that's going to make everything fall into place. Until then, they're just moving the pieces around to make that moment as complex as possible. And I'm okay with that.

But then, I've never been part of the "Why won't they give us answers?!?!" chorus. Answers aren't the reason I watch the show.



* If that happens I will be very disappointed. My favorite character is Hurley

If they break the 4th wall I will go postal;)

I don't really watch it for the answers either. I want it to be entertaining. And by that I don't mean action-packed. Last night was all action and zero plot movement. That's not entertaining to me. I don't care about answers, particularly - - but I want something to happen with the plot. Even if all it does is raise more questions.


And, ya know, that's just me and my interests. So far, this season is mostly snore. But that's how I feel about the first 6 episodes of practically every season of this show. If it starts to pick-up - um, right about next week - I'm all good.

It looks to me is that both sides are amassing followers for a big showdown at the end. Sounds good.

Hmm, something tells me that they won't get to answering all of your 430 questions. It's up to you whether you enjoy that or not.

I'm sure I've said the phrase myself in the past, but I'm officially sick of "I'm going to be very upset if LOST ends up blah blah blah". By all accounts, no matter what happens, half the watching public is going to start a massacre in the streets as soon as the series ends.

I've decided at this point that the only way to enjoy it is to be Zen about it. It is what it is.

I enjoyed last night's episode. I loved when the annoying translator guy said "he was the only thing keeping Him out!" and Sayid said "I know."

The idea of people like Sayid, Claire, and the defectors being "evil" is interesting. It's quite the statement to show that some people end up on the wrong side due to bad circumstances. Can anyone blame Claire for befriending the only comforting force she found alone in the jungle? Or Sayid for killing a person who tried to kill him?

So if the temple spring didn't bring Sayid back to life, one assumes it was MiB, but how did he do so while the temple was still protected? If he was "infected" beforehand, when did the infection happen? He had no contact with NotLocke.

I am so glad the temple part is over, simply because the comings and goings were annoying. At any point I couldn't remember who had left and who had come back and who wanted to leave but couldn't. Time for some good old running through the jungle.

Is it just me or does Miles have a lot more gray hair now?

The only reason I'll riot at this point is if it ends up being a dream, a snow globe or they wake up next to Bob Newheart.

I think the reason I am enjoying this season so much is because I know the ending is coming. Some episodes suck and some rock. But I have to have confidence the writers gave the show a decent ending.

I am wondering though, if it is still important that Claire be the one to raise her baby, and if so, why.

Did anyone else notice the burning cross in the carnage?

I guess I am Pollyanna, but I would like for it to end on a nice note, not evil winning and everyone dead on the ground. I'm not happy about Sayid killing Dogen. He was an interesting character and now he's dead while Sayid is all evil zombie guy.

It sure does......all we need now is Charlie to come back and sing a cover for Larry Underwood.....Baby can you dig your man

Of course I will enjoy it.......if I didn't I wouldn't be wasting my time talking about it.

I'm with BTD, as long as it's not a dream a la Dallas or a snow globe, I'm good as long as they give me resolution. I'm okay with that resolution being incomplete and, as I've said, I think in some ways it would be better if the conclusion leaves enough answers that we continue to ruminate it's true meaning.

A note on the 5 seasons becoming 6...

ABC wanted to add an extra season to Lost because of its money making prowess; the producers didn't want another season but compromised. Instead of having the last 2 seasons be 22/24 episodes (like the first 3 were) they added a sixth season but made the last 3 seasons only 14-18 episodes (the 4th was shortened because of the writer's strike). The last 3 seasons are the approximate length of 2 of the first 3 seasons (46 vs 48). So there's one more season then originally planned but no more episodes.

Ah, that's interesting to know.


Ok, I have a question:

I missed that much loathed Kate episode, so maybe that's where it happened - but where and how (and what was the reaction) did the Losties who were in Dharma Times before the nuke-meets-energy pocket incident that concluded Season 5 find out they were all transported forward in time 33 years to the "present"? (even though some of them had only gone back 30 years to reach Dharma Times and others had gone back 33).

Anyway, was there some moment of discovery, much less explanation for this?

They kinda realized immediately when they woke up (most of them, anyway) in the whole that was created when Desmond turned the failsafe key, and the station blew up.

I believe it was when they found the blown Swan "hatch", proving that not only had the hatch been built, but that they had been there to blow it up. There was plenty of anger, especially Sawyer pointing a finger at Jack for Juliet's needless death (though she wasn't quite dead yet, they tried to save her and then she died and Sawyer was extra pissed.)

Lost is kinda losing me.

I'm not digging the Island storyline these days, and isn't that the whole friggin' point? I don't love that our merry band is breaking up into factions. I realized last night that I *hate* that John Locke is dead and this Smoke Monster Locke is all that's left of him. Because he's a little lame.

I always liked that our Lost folk were trapped in between these warring parties, and I guess I was kind of hoping that our beloved characters would band together and say, "You know what, **** this! We aren't your pawns and this isn't our war. And the war is lame to begin with!" So the fact that they seem to be splitting up our beloved characters into two factions, and that we may really be in for a sort of GOOD vs EVIL battle just leaves me a bit sad and bored.

And, I know, I know. I suppose the writers/producers were generally headed in this direction and I shouldn't have assumed otherwise, but it all seem so heavy, stupidly handled. Like once upon a time they were inspired by Slaughterhouse 5 and now they're inspired by bad adventure serials, and not in a good way. (Indian Jones, for example, was a good way.)

All these little rules (the Japanese man being the only thing - for some unexplained reason - keeping out the Smoke Monster) seem so tossed in and pointless.

And I continue to be more interested (and this does shock me) in the alternate storyline. Sayid's storyline was awesome. Sayid on the Island? Evil Mirrorverse Sayid? It just make me feel embarrassed for him for some reason.

Of course I'm in for the ride. I've loved the show and I want to see how it all turns out. But the sci-fi elements of the show, which I love (parallel universes, becoming displaced in time, etc.), are now taking a serious back seat to the stuff i care less about (overly Christian good vs evil symbolism and characters, etc.). I feel like I'm reliving my Battlestar Gallactica experience right now, and that final season left me very, very soured on that entire series.

There were moments last night where I felt like I was watching The Land of the Lost. Seriously. LAND OF THE LOST! And the music is bugging the **** out of me lately. I have always loved the score for the show and now it all sounds like the Indiana Jones ride music at Disneyland. Seriously. THE INDIANA JONES RIDE! So disappointing.

Holding out hope, but not loving it at all right now.

I've always found the off-island stuff more interesting. I admire the writers for coming up with a different method each season of having off-island stuff (flashbacks, flash-forwards, literally off the island, sideways alternate reality).

I'm personally positive it's this dramatic gimmick that's driving the choice of story lines and not the other way around. That's alright with me. Island alone would get boring real fast, and the writers know that.

What they don't seem to know is how to wrap up the series with a tenth the talent they've exhibited in having it flow along with no obligations. D'uh. Didn't everyone but the most kool-aid swilling see this coming?


BUT - most seasons have finished way better than they started. I hope it starts improving real, REAL soon.

Because this time the Island stuff is far worse than usual, and I'm not finding the sideways universe all that interesting either.

The shows been all about splitting the losties up into factions. Beach vs. cave. Push the button vs. don't push the button. Follow Locke vs. follow Jack. It's more literal and divisive this season, but it's been a running theme through the entire series.

I'm aware of that. At this point I'm only referring to the group that's currently whittled down. At this point I have little to no interest watching Sayid, Sawyer, Claire, etc. following Smoke Monster Locke and the rest following whomever...Jack? I know it's been about one group vs another, but previously it all seemed very well thought out, and what motivated characters to choose one side or the other was interesting. Sawyer's reasoning? That makes sense to me. That bores me less. Evil Claire / Evil Sayid? That just seems like a tossed stupid salad. The writing just seems bad this season.

Tonight's episode sure had the feel of an episode from an earlier season. I quite enjoyed it (not that I'm not enjoying this season).

I do have a question because try as I might I can't recall....what happened to Danielle Rousseau? Do we know?

She was shot by Keamy while trying to get Karl and Alex to safety at the temple. (Immediately before marching Alex back to the barracks where she was shot in front of Ben.)

I thought Daniel was shot by his mother? But then again, I'm so confused that I'm not sure what year it is on the Island now. Is it still 1977? How'd the non 815 survivors (including Lapidus) all get to the same time? Is UnLocke Jacob? Is Jacob Smokey? Isn't the man in black smokey? Are there two smokeys, one good one bad?

I'm so confused!

However, I had one thought. If smokey can make itself into Locke, then could it also have made itself into all of the other dead or impossible to be on the island people like Jack's dad, Locke's dad, and Claire's dad? That would explain those impossiblities!

It's 2007

Danielle Rousseu not Daniel Faraday (who was killed by his mom).

Lapidus arrived with the Oceanic 6 when they returned to the island on Ajira 316.

The detonation of jughead (the hydrogen bomb) or the last time jump (depending on your view of what happened at the end of last season) seems to have kicked everyone who wasn't already in their present timelines back to 2007. Presumably, Richard exists across all timelines.

Jacob is dead but Hurley can see him.

MIB=Smokey=NotLocke

Personally, I don't think MIB=Christian since Claire clearly differentiated between the two in episode 5.

According to Iliana, MIB/Smokey is now stuck as NotLocke, not sure why but I suspect it's because Jacob died.

Funny you should ask about 2 Smokeys because I was just wondering about that tonight. If Smokey was contained at the cabin, and Ben was a Jacob minion, but could call Smokey as a "security system" in times of extreme danger (like when Keamey and his men invaded), I think it's entirely possible that Jacob had the ability to turn into the same type of force as MIB.

Hmmmm.... Very good. I hadn't thought that Jacob could be a smoky too. Interesting....

Loved that episode.

Me too. Loved that Ben was able to find redemption for himself in both worlds.

Michael Emerson rocks.

Fun Fact:

Roger Linus (Ben's dad) is played by Jon Gries who played Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite.

I knew I recognized him form somewhere!

Ah yes - thanks.

He also played a guy named Broots (I think that was his name) on a show from the 90s called The Pretender. I loved that show.

He will forver be Lazlo from Real Genius.

OMG, you're right!
And I agree, that was an awesome show.

Seeing Ben in a more likable light was a lot of fun. The fact that he chose "good" instead of stewardship of the island is a great curve.

They recognized that we don't know which Kwon is the candidate, or if it's both...

She said there are only 6 candidates "left". I wonder, does that include Locke? Sayid? Because if not...who are the six?

Thanks guys! I figured it was 2007, but then why did they not know about that temple full of people? And I read Daniel, rather than Danielle. I told you I was confused. ;)

Oh! That's where I know him from!!

The non-crossed out names from the lighthouse are Shephard, Reyes, Jarrah, Kwon, Ford, and Austen. Six if Kwon counts once, and as she said, she herself was unsure if that was one or two.

Yes, this episode had both the best acting and writing so far this season.....I hope this continues the rest of the way.

HAPPY LOST DAY!!!


Lost

:)

I didn't love that episode. The island bits I liked alright, but Sawyer's flash sideways story was as hackneyed as it gets. Bleh.

Disappointed as well.

What I don't seem to understand is the apparent differences in some of the lives of the characters. For example, last night....Sawyer is a detective when he rode back on Oceanic 815. Was he a detective when it crashed? Is his pre crash life in these sideways flashes different in the time lines that had him crash and that had him not crash? Was he always a detective? How is it that he didn't kill the guy this time around when he obviously had when he flew back from Australia when 815 crashed?

I'm confused.

Next week, however, looks to be sweet. But that's what previews are designed to do.

The fork in the timeline occurred in 1977 when the bomb went off. Not in the air. Everybody's lives took a different turn way before flight 815 didn't crash.

At least that's how I see things.

I liked the episode. I liked that he was partners with Miles in the FS. I liked that somebody gave him a nickname. I liked seeing Charlotte again. I liked the island story. In fact, I can't think of anything I didn't like.

I'm still trying to figure out if Widmore is a good guy or a bad guy. Hell... I'm still trying to figure out if anyone is a good guy!

I was thinking about Widmore.....I'm thinking he's a third wheel.

We have Jacob, the presumed good guy. We have Flocke, the presumed bad guy. I think Widmore fits in differently in that he was on the island long ago, was banished, and is seeking to gain control as an outside third party.

And Pirate, you're right - the alternate time line stuff really started as a result of the bomb exploding, not crashing vs. not crashing.

What I liked most about this episode was my realization that MIB, unlike Jacob, answers questions. Someone asks him a questions, he answers. Not necessarily entirely honestly, or even if honest, in a way that says, "Okay, I'll humor your question with an answer but only because it just goes to show how little you know and how you don't even know what questions and secrets are actually important." But he answers, which just encapsulates the awesomeness of the show and the whole "answers" thing.

And I love that Sawyer basically used the same tactic when responding to Whidmore and MIB.

Charolette was freaking hot in this episode. The guy who played Faraday must be pissed that he got nose-blood coughed on him, and Sawyer got a sex scene.

Sawyer - shirt = awesome episode. What was the rest of the storyline? :D

Another disappointed customer here, too - especially after last week's boffo episode (the only one of the season).

I'm getting tired of the sideways focus on one character per episode - because it smacks of there not being a story, per se, but rather just a desire to spotlight each main character in turn as a kind of curtain call for the series. Bleh on that. Waste of time when TONS of Story should be Told at this point.

And the sideways stuff is not even very good. Last week's Ben Linus was of course the best one. It actually told a full story, and hooked in beautifully with the story on the island that week. Well done. None of the others are rising to that standard, though.

The Sayid one was also interesting ... but was a snippet of a tale instead of a story told. And I guess it's all leading up to many of the characters, if not all of them, hooking up sometime soon - - though the reveal of some other sideways character interaction at the very end of the episode is already getting tiresome.

And what is the POINT of the sideways world that obviously is NOT the world the characters inhabited in the original pre-Oceanic world. WHY is that? What's it got to do with the "real" characters on the Island? How will those two storylines affect each other and the freaking finale that we're supposed to be rushing headlong to?


With only 8 more episodes, I don't think there's any possibly satisfying way to tie this all together.

I picked the wrong season to watch week-by-week as it airs. This is torture. And not the fun kind.

Did anyone catch a HUGE point last night?

Charlotte works at the museum with Miles DAD!

When we saw Ben's dad alive and well last week I thought, "oh well, Newotherton isn't super close to the Swan".......but hello, Pierre Chang was at the swan.

Just what happened at the swan after Juliet slammed the bomb:confused:

I think what makes the sideways timeline different is that Jacob wasn't around.

I think the bomb affected the timeline in both directions.

Like burning a candle in the middle. Good point!

There could be a reason for it that we don't yet understand. With out knowing how this is going to end, how can we assume what information is important? How do we know the sideways flashes aren't the real timeline? All will be revealed in the end (or so they say)! :rolleyes: I'm rather nervous about it. It better be good!

After he is done with this show, I think his contracts for any future work will state that he will not be willing to take off his shirt, because he is so tired of it. I think he should just get a beer belly and let the hair grow in so that no one will want him to! ;)

Why you gotta be like that? :p

He can be another Matthew Mcconaughey and not wear one. Ever. That would be perfect.

I missed Pirate Bill's excellent point that the timeline diverged in 1977 when the bomb/incident happened. That's a satisfactory explanation for why the sideways world is so different from what it "was" or rather would have been.

I know a lot of guys who would actually prefer him that way!

Darlton said on the podcast that they don't want viewers to think of the two timelines as distinct and strongly hinted that they will merge at some point.

I enjoyed the "Sawyer gets laaaaid" story with no less than 2 partners plus a reference to the Kate bear cage incident. Dug Good Guy Det. Ford - nice to know he's got it in him somewhere. Conversely, also fun to see him up to his lying again. He called Kate "Freckles"! :)

Seeing Sayid all messed up was creepy.

I wish Claire was a better actress.

Was fun to see Charlie's brother at the police station.

I was hoping we'd see Charlie too, perhaps at his bottom asking his brother to take him to rehab. I am curious why his brother was in LA.

It's actually possible that the timeline diverged way back in the 1950's....since Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Dan, Charlotte and Miles all visited the Island in that decade.....after 815 crashed.

I think it's impossible to say when/how/if the sideways timeline diverged from the known timeline(s). So far, we only know for sure that Ben and his father were on the island; the Losties don't seem to actually remember being on the island and may never have been (at least in their sideways life). Personally, I think it probably did diverge at some point but I'm not discarding the possibility of it being a parallel timeline (as opposed to a divergent one).

I was just reading some spoilers on another board. If they are true, we get Jacob's and Smokey's back story in the penultimate episode...

That will be very cool. I'm also looking forward to next week's Richard backstory. And not just because I think Nestor Carbonell is smokin' hot, though it is a factor. :evil:

I saw him on channel 5 news this morning, and he hinted that he will be on at some point, perhaps the last ep.

Ewww....

A thought just occurred to me. We know it's impossible to get to the island unless one approaches at exactly the right angle. What if this is not so much to keep people out, but to keep MIB in?

Interesting thought.

I had an interesting thought yesterday. NOTHING HAS HAPPENED this entire season, more than half over.

Cough*Cough*Bullsh!t.





(As I've observed, other seasons seemingly meandered through nothingness for their first halves ... but this is unacceptable to me for the final season on a show like Lost that must now prove it is not the 21st century version of Twin Peaks.)

You're kidding, right?

Loved how we refer to Ol' Smoky as "the smoke monster," but UnLocke, when asked what happened to the people who stayed behind at the temple, called it, "the black smoke." And conveniently left out the information that it was himself. Wondering if Jacob could manifest as white smoke.

Want to know about Adam and Eve. Want to know about The Island at the Bottom of the Sea. Really want to know why Rose, in the first episode, recognized the sound of the Smoke Monster. Want to know about the healing spring inside the temple, and what was wrong with it. Want to know about the Hurleybird, the whispering in the grasses, the baby's mobile with little airplanes they found in the Dharma maternity ward, want to know about Walt and Aaron, want to know if Vincent is Jacob, want to know who or what Christian is, want to know about the whole island electromagnetic thing.

Is the MiB a Djinn? Is that why he couldn't kill Jacob? Would that explanation be beyond stupid, or does it fit in with antiquity of the Island, and the occasional references to Alice and Oz?

I really, really want to know why Rose thought she recognized the sound made by the Smoke Monster.

From Lostpedia

ETA: Of course, there could be a reason that they chose a sound that would be familiar to her, but it seems it doesn't sound like it's going to turn out that she had encountered the smoke monster before, just that the smoke monster incorporated something familiar to her.

And, no, I'm not kidding. A bunch of sideways slice-of-life stuff is not moving the plot along as far as I can tell yet. I'll give that time, but as I've posted - it seems more like giving each character their curtain call in orderly turn rather than storytelling.

On the Island - 8 episodes to reveal the names at the cave and the lighthouse? Other than that, endless waste of choosing-sides time which could have been accomplished in 20 minutes. And should have been. In fact, the whole season seems to be taking Episode I lessons.

Except for the excellent Ben Linus episode week before last, it doesn't seem like anyone posting in this thread is much more enthralled with this season than I am - so I really don't feel like my criticism is out of left field - but in any case, that's how I feel.


With the proviso, that I'm used to having things move along at a greater clip via watching the episodes one after another on DVD. Maybe it's just seeming too slow to me on a weekly basis.

Speaking of Smokey sounds, in Recon when Sawyer discovers the Ajira plane on Hydra Island, you can hear birds chirping that sound (to me) exactly like one of the component sounds of Smokey. Watch it again, it's around the 40 minute mark, IIRC.

Yeah, I heard that. They seem to do that a lot, mix some component smokey sound in. Could be meaningful, could be just to mess with us.

On the topic of old Smokey, it seems the images he projects and the sounds he makes derive from the personal lives/demons of those he is targeting. I've always thought this to be the more awesome thing about it, inferring that he gets his power from the environment around him. Innocuous noises could seep in there as well.



iSm, I believe there has been some back and forth as to which episodes are entertaining and which have not, but I'm not going to dig for quotes. Not everyone is hating this season, and I daresay no one is hating it as much as you are. Even if this is filled with "curtain calls" I'm enjoying them quite a bit. It's going to be a bummer when we no longer see these characters anymore!

As for "nothing happening", it seems to me the story has always moved along at the pace of the character development. The plot has never moved much quicker than the flashbacks. Come to think of it, much of my favorite parts of the show have been the flashbacks. Remember when the questions were "who are these people really?" and the flashbacks slowly leaked answers for us? How is this season any different? Learning what these people might have been is just as fascinating for me, as it reveals more and more of who they are, really.

I'll say this until I'm blue in the face - big answers are not what LOST is about. When the answers come, I bet that most people who are counting on them to make their 6 seasons worthwhile are not going to be happy. It's not the destination, it's the journey...

I heard that too! Could Widmore have brought a smokey with him?

But Twin Peaks was an entirely different show....I mean, yeah, some of the names are the same........Cooper, Desmond, Roger, Ben, Hurley, James, Jacob(y), an eye-patched character and a Black "Lodge" instead of a Black "Rock", characters bodies being occupied by evil spirits etc.

Where Twin Peaks went wrong is that it did answer some of the biggest questions before the final season......Lost, mad as it makes me sometimes, hasn't made that mistake:)

Of course there is one big scary similarity between the two shows...scarier then even the similar character names.............Bob Iger:eek:

The problem I have with that theory is that it has made this same sound on several occasions when Rose was no where around...most recently last week right before FLocke approached Ben. We also heard it make those Taxi-cab like sounds when it was spying on Sawyer.........so only we the audience heard it, none of the Islanders.