Maybe they should have just done a dance battle?

Palin definitely fared better in the more familiar surroundings of a prepped traditional debate, something I'm sure she's been doing since JSA in high school. Still clearly has not processed these issues enough to be speaking off script, but she did fine with the script she was taught.

I thought Biden did a stellar job of driving home two main themes. 1) Go ahead and bring up individual votes all you want, I can show you how the REAL thrust of that vote was the bill it was attached to, not the issue you want it to be about and 2) No matter what decisions we eventually were cornered into going forward on (see point 1), we were arguing against it and only voted for it because SOMETHING had to be done even if we didn't agree that it was the best choice, and in those cases the result was exactly what we predicted would happen.

Places where I think he failed: 1) Regarding the surge, I think the Obama camp's tack should be, "We were against the surge not because we think it was doomed to failure, but because we would rather have seen a strategy that put the responsibility on Iraqis to handle their own ****." 2) "I challenge you to find a place where my message differs from Obama, unlike you who don't represent the same things your candidate is supposedly running for," then in his very next answer, "I am not afraid to speak my mind and tell Obama when I disagree with him."

But my favorite quote from him was, "I do not question their motives, I question their judgment." It's the attitude that drew me to Obama to begin with. The radical concept that it's possible to disagree with someone without vilifying them.

LMHO! I wondered if that winking was bugging you as much as it was me!


I agree on all your points!

The term "cutesy sh!t" is right on. UGH

I am more impressed with Biden then before. He gives me hope and confidence. I like and respect what I have seen of him.

Ifill was hampered by the debate format which didn't really allow for follow up questions.

You mean LIKE THIS?!?!?

I wonder if she was also hampered by a broken ankle that left her feeling somehow impotent.

Maybe she was being extra careful what with the right dogging her about her upcoming book.

By the way the New York Times has a fact check on all the things they said in the debate (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ntial-debate/). Overall I think Biden had a higher score there.

She did OK. She didn't faint or fail, much to the GREAT relief of the right. Biden held firm and focused on McCain. Both sides did fine, neither blundered. To me this was NOT a gamechanger, which means we're still where we were before the debate.

I certainly have complaints about the initial questions she asked (to often she was including the means of sidestepping in her question, or offering possible answers), but I don't blame her about the lack of follow up.

One can complain about whether the candidates weaving around the rules is acceptable, but she doesn't get to just make up rules and follow ups weren't allowed for.

I didn't watch the debate but I did read (on another board) that Palin was wearing red stilettos and was making notes on a pad of paper throughout. Someone surmised what she must be writing:

It made me laugh.

I thought the equal rights for gays question was phrased in favor of Biden. It allowed Biden a "yes, I support their rights," answer instead of having to lead with, "No, I don't support marriage but..." Either way it was clear that Palin stopped short of saying she supported the same rights as Biden did, but posing the question without specifically mentioning marriage played to his favor.

The winking made me cringe, as did "nucular".

She said "O'Biden" once.

I do expect the McCain ticket to get a boost in the polls from this. She more than met the rock-bottom bar of lowered expectations.

The one question that I felt she made the biggest dodge on was on whether Bush's Mid East policy has been a failure. Didn't address it at all.

And in general, though I'm admittedly biased, I don't think Palin successfully sold the, "You're looking to the past while we're looking to the future," line. Biden did an excellent job of selling the view that your choice to vote shouldn't be about who talk tough once the sh*t has hit the fan, it's about the people who have shown that they forsaw the sh*t hitting the fan in the first place and would have tried to prevent it.

How accurate that framing is may be up for debate, but Biden made the case well in this forum.