But that is where I disagree, I know plenty of people who are fat and it has everything to do with who they are (whiny, incapable of taking responsibility for personal choices, lazy, etc.).

But yes, generally there is no reason to judge someone for being fat because one don't have the details or a need to make personal decisions based on such a judgment (see also, the thread about judging a while ago)

This might just be a restatement of the above - but I'd venture the judgements as such are flawed since there is no universal correspondence. There are plenty of lazy skinny people as there are industrious fat people - really on those topics if fat is part of the equation you really can judge them on how those things relate to eating or exercize habits. They tell you nothing about how one might run a company, or be in bed (aside from the tactile experience I suppose). So such judgements really don't seem to have much value.

No, but if all they do is bitch about their weight and yet make the personal choices that exacerbate the issue I'm going to judge them for it and decide I don't need to be around them much.

Like I said above these are not character flaws that follow from being fat, but they are, for some, character flaws that are revealed by being fat. It is not the fat, per se, that I am judging. It is their relationship with being fat.

And, I suspect, Alex doesn't often wear high-heel shoes.

Which brings me to the fact that we, most of us posting here, have indicated that while we may judge people on character flaws, we do NOT judge people for being fat.

I hope our officially overweight friends realize this. Gosh, some of the most amazing people I know are kinda fat ... and it means not a fig to me. Less than a fig.

Fortunately, I don't know any fat people who have bitched and moaned - to me at least - about losing weight. I have some friends who have lost amazing amount of weight, and I am proud of them for doing so. But I am simply not conversely ashamed of any who don't care to embark on the effort.


That being said, I think we all can personally benefit by taking personal responsibity for every form and condition of our lives. Fat, thin, short, bald, gay, rich, poor, kind, mean, red or pink ... to the degree we take responsibility for it all, biologic or not - - we will be empowered and alive in a way that people stuck with a sense of victimization can never achieve.

Ah, but you see, if you were their friend, it SHOULD mean a fig to you.

I never used to care, but now, because of the unhealthy aspect of added weight, and the big scare, I feel concern for my overweight friends. I'm not going to preach at them (save for the healthy eating thread ;) ) but I can't say that I don't care that they're overweight, because I DO - simply because I don't want their lives to be any shorter than necessary.

It's not my place to tell them to lose the weight, but I can care about them, and be as supportive as I can of anyone who is changing their lifestyle in a healthier direction.

Hugs to all,
Rob.

I managed to see a tour guide yesterday who was over the age of forty and not particularly "attractive" in the typical, generalized sense. (Though she was pretty thin.) I guess they're branching out! She was also wearing the old costume. When does the change-over happen?

Seriously, this is one completely insane thread.

I wouldn't even know where to enter what I think, or say, or feel about this topic. It seems as though no matter what boards I'm on (no, this isn't the only one...) on whatever subject matter - Disney, movies, whatever - people are taking things WAY personally. I guess everyone has the right to take things the way they want to take them, but what kills me is when a somewhat intellectual conversation gets confused with the emotions of self-doubt, or even former self-doubt.

I feel it's a fairly safe bet that, if not every single one of us, just about every single one of us has felt the pain and sting of ridicule, and judgement. We face it every day, whether we're talking about weight and beauty, the color of our hair and perceived intelligence, religion, nationality - you name it! I've been rediculed on each of those topics, yet I've grown into a woman that - while I would like to be as attractive as I can be, and sometimes don't feel "up to par," or "societal standards" - I could never turn it into an us versus them thing. It just wouldn't be true. Most of the world faces ridicule... "Fat" isn't the worst thing you could be called, IMO.

I applaud those here, who like €, etc, kept asking the important questions, dug deeper. I applaud Prudence for sticking to her guns, and making people think, succinct arguments provided by iSm, who points out that no one's talking about the color - this thing got rediculously sidetracked. How *are* we supposed to see them as well with the blue?? Damn good point!! Jenn - she made damn good points, and applied critical thinking to her later comments, and it broke my heart to read them being dismissed in the "us vs. them" wars, and to see her being judged by so many here as someone who would be unkind to a heavier person, which I think we all know each other well enough to know is not true. Criminy! What has gotten into everyone?! We've *all* been there, in one way or another... Do we need to get caught up in this argument that's becoming more personal by the moment?!

On topic: I will wait to see what the costumes look like, before I get too worked up. I'll miss many of the elements that seem to be going away, I really wish that maybe everyone could have something that's somewhat tailored to their features, though I suppose that, too, goes away from the kind of uniformity that every Disney castmember handbook I've seen come through my home. Just as, perhaps, they're finding weight-friendlier costumes to be more flattering to those who might not have been flattered by the former costumes, I hope that it doesn't do anything to dull the figures of those who are not heavier. But again, I'll just wait and see..

Take it easy, everyone... There's a whole lot more to be worried about than what I've seen being argued over in here.

Bornieo is tall when sitting down. I think he's still in the 6' range when in a dining room chair.

I think everyone here is missing the big issue. That issue can be boiled down to one simple question - what exactly are they doing with the old uniforms? I know a little hottie I would like to see in a couple of 'em, riding crop, short skirts and all....

mmmmm