So is the feminist position one that women have no freedom but are compelled to do what pop culture dictates? I think I'd be insulted if the society I was in presumed me so powerless as to have to protect me from my weakness of wanting to be attractive to potential partners.

Haute coutere has discriminated against average and plus size men and women for years- where's the outcry there? When is the last time you saw a size 12 or higher on the catwalk, or gracing the pages of Vogue? What about older models? If event organizers feel that things have just gotten too extreme, it's their perogative to put restrictions- either way- on the models.

As for naturally gazelle-like models, they are few and far between. Most eventually admit to serious eating disorders, but not until they have aged out of the biz or quit because they wanted to develop a personal relationship with an In&Out burger.

Perhaps, but if they think it's going to change teen culture by doing so they're in for some dissappointment.

See post 21. I think you just answered your own question.

We're talking about the cultural programming (yes I said it) of young women here. Young women trying to make their way through the confusing and contrasting signals of hormones and hair and curves and wanting-to-do-it v. you are ugly if you have curves and hair, and you are a whore if you want to do it. Believe me when I say it's a lifelong fight against that crap. Of course we have freedom in the abstract but learning to use that freedom, in our culture, takes great, and mature, bravery. And it's an uphill battle, apparently, wherever one goes and whatever ones age is. :mad:

Oh, I got over being insulted about it long ago, but it's there whether I care or not. I do continue to care on behalf of the future partners of my son.
If he brings home a hairy curvy gal or boy (or the opposite!) that he truly loves than I figure I've done my job at running cultural interference. But cultural interference must be run. GRRRRR! And these stupid "ideals" burn my toast.

Actually, there have been a lot of teens (including here in Spokane) who have been campaigning against all the low-rise crap out there. Several department stores in our area have responded and we can finally find decent pants for our kids now. There are always going to be those who blindly follow whatever they are told looks good and is fashionable, but there are a lot of kids out there with a strong sense of self who serve to offset the others.

So maybe men don't really care as much as you say we do and women are doing it to themselves for no good reason.

Or maybe women are capable of coming to choices of aesthetics on their own, or sharing in the process, and aren't simply cowering in the face of men and the fashion industry defining sexy.

Of course, I may just be riled since you've essentially described my wife as a helpless victim of patriarchic oppression. Why you're so bothered by what she is doing under her clothes, I don't know.

Of course, since I too have tattoos, trimmed and removed pubic hair, and switched from tighty whities to forms of underwear I consider more attractive (as well as comfortable; my wife assures me she finds thongs much more comfortable but I could hardly care less what kind of underwear she wears) I would like to see banned the ultra-thin fashion models that have acted as a tool to sexually oppress me into conforming to the perverse male concept of beauty and sexiness.


I'm a victim.

No one said anything about victims here, Alex- and even if they were, you're not the demographic.

Thongs are fine, and everyone is entitled to their opinion as to the asthetic appeal of them. You wanna wear buttfloss, knock yourself out.

As the parent of a ten year old that couldn't find pants that didn't show parts of her anatomy that she really doesn't want to show, I can attest to the pressure that these kids are under.

Do you have a daughter, Alex? You haven't lived until your little eight year old declares they are going on a diet, because they are too fat and boys won't like them if they don't get skinny.

Now, post a pic of yourself in a thong, post-Brazilian wax, and I'll forget the above post ever happened. I'll also probably go blind, right?

You may be talking about 10 year old girls. But Strangler Lewis seems to be talking about all women, regardless of age (unless there are a lot of 10 year old girls getting tattoos and Brazilians) and being forced into decisions about what is sexy. Sounds like victims to me (though apparently tattoos are ok on ugly girls).

Thanks for insulting me as well. Can I assume that the sight of you mostly undressed is amazingly hideous as well?

As for your daughter, I would bet it was another girl that told her she needs to be skinny for boys to like her. Not a runway model or a man or even another young boy. Honestly, most men don't give a damn what women wear, particularly if they think it is going to be coming off.

As for the event organizers in this case, it is the government. I would like to think we can all agree it isn't a good thing for the government to start deciding what the acceptable range of appearance is before you can put yourself on display.

I'm waiting for "homeless chic" to come into style. Then I'd fit right in...
:D