I very much see it as a non sequitor. Discussions of the use of waterboarding have no bearing on our stance as a society on use of nuclear weapons, and vice versa. I fail to see how condoning torture and suppressing open and honest debate by labeling dissent as tantamount to treason can be passed off as "progress" just because we aren't debating about some other topic that's unrelated to this one. Especially in light of the fact that said other topic is hardly even a closed topic. Note, for example, the reaction to Obama daring to say he wouldn't use nuclear weapons against Iran or Pakistan. Oh yeah, we've clearly progressed beyond that. Sure.

Not to mention that even if it isn't a non sequiter it still doesn't make sense. The morality of the neutron bomb has hardly been settled, it has simply been mooted by the fact that nobody has one (though four or five countries could build one if they wanted). Up until we dismantled our last ones at the end of the Bush I presidency they were still very much a topic of debate.

Kind of like saying that in Children of Men abortion is no longer a topic of debate so obviously progress has been made.

I'm so immune to most political rhetoric that I hear nothing but "blah blah blah waterboarding". I'm sort of somewhere in the zone of NM and BR but I have a picture that comes to mind.

That's you right, NA?

Hmm, I guess that the thread of thought was that they were/are generally considered instruments of war, regardless of agreement or disagreement on either topic (nuclear bombs and waterboarding).

Or I could just be jet lagged...

I was both very athletic AND politically astute in my younger days.

Are you the one on the left or right?

I don't remember. It was too long ago.

Nope, I'll guess she was driving the boat!

Sorry...guess I should have filled that in a little. This whole thing just struck me as somewhat silly....the end of America and this is 1930's Germany all over again and these are the darkest times theme just made me think that people may have forgotten what things were really like not so long ago.

I suppose my post would have been better suited to a debate on whether or not we should have a missile defense in Europe but sometimes I can't control what strikes me as apropro....even if it really isn't:D