I think getting out of this stupid war will save us billions. So, whoever will get us out of that is going to make a massive impact. Therefore, it's a damn good thing that Bush isn't in office for another four years to continue his war game at everyone's expense.

I have my doubts as to our ability to exit at this point, but it's a worthy goal.

We can (and will) exit. We can't do it quickly as this will create a vacuum which will create greater threats on US security.

Finally got around to listening to the episode of This American Life about the freeze and the bailout. While obviously an oversimplified view, it once again does an excellent job of giving an overview of the mechanisms involved. Their conclusion was that while nothing is ideal, the current method being used (the treasury getting actual stock in banks in return for bailout money instead of buying worthless debt at made up prices from them) has a much higher chance at success in terms of restoring market confidence and liquidity with relatively little risk to the treasury.

It also detailed how exactly things turned from investing to gambling, and how regulation might have had a chance at preventing this (the key thing being the lack of regulation on "credit default swaps", which I won't attempt to explain myself). And while regulating the CDS market doesn't guarantee that investors wouldn't have found some other way to do that kind of gambling, it would have been better than letting it run free. As someone on the show put it, just because there's still the risk someone might break your window, you still start by closing and locking your back door.

I have the same type of family, it would seem. All of this, yes, both sides can play dirty, but, the ugliness I am seeing from my R side of the family. The emails against Obama and for Prop 8 sicken me. I am thisclose to telling my f-i-l to shove it but I didn't want to upset my husband. When I told him that I found the emails vile he said to go ahead and tell him what I felt. I am waiting for a fresh email. I know it will come.

My own family, yes, their views are not based on real issues. They want that nice old white man in office. You can not argue with them. My sis has the Prop 8 sign in their front yard. She is fasting. Things told to her to do by her church.

So, yeah, I do see a difference in Rs and Ds. But not always clear cut.

All I know. After this is all said and done, I will look at those people very differently. This ugliness is creating a wide river between us. I will not want to break bread with people who hate.


{:blush: sorry if this post is outta left field, I came in here and jumped in without reading back....I was looking for cookies, actually}

The conversation started with DP's post (I believe) and then JWB posted links.

All of my local markets still have a good supply. I bought 2 bags yesterday! I'm going to keep one (in the freezer?), and open the other...

I found four bags of Circus Animals at the Mountain View Target (at 2/$5) and, after receiving assurances that they had more in the back, bought them all. Considering freezing two. Still no Iced Oatmeal.

Are the Circus Animals so laden with preservatives and other crap that one doesn't need to worry about freezing them?