The AP made pretty much the exact same mistake as Fox but because they are the AP I guess everyone expects mistakes;)

You guys aren't seriuosly attempting to feign moral outrage over this, are you? I say feign, because otherwise this might actually have to be filed in the 'Stupidest Things (Ever)To Argue About' history book.

And nice try on the diversionary tactic, but really- can't you guys come up with anything new?


Let's just get it over with, okay?


Yeah, the Republicans have been naughty, but....Clinton got a BJ and lied about it!!!!!!
;):p

Yes, please go to sleep and forget ... forget ... forget that the first thing Armitage did, the very next day after he leaked the first Plamege, was to report his transgretion to the FBI and the Justice Department. Libby, of the V.P.'s office, who performed Leak No. 2 a few days later, lied about it and covered up and has been indicted. Rove can't be proven to have lied about it ... but his memory went all faulty, prompting serial grand jury appearances. Faulty memory, alas, is not provable as lying ... but you take your guess, scaeagles, as to what politicians' faulty memories mean - - and I'll take mine.

Meanwhile, yawn and sleep and forge your own faulty memories.

I'm not trying to argue specifics of anything. I'm merely trying to point out that perspective of media bias is just that - perspective - and that media outlets all over the place make errors and booboos, which I can point to as obvious left bias in certain cases, and you can point to as obvious right bias in certain cases.

WB is right. Big freakin' deal. Mistakes happen. Bias happens. It is a fact of life. I can point to it, you can point to it, it doesn't mean there is a flippin' conspiracy.

I have never claimed that my feeling of left bias in the media is some grand conspiracy. Only that since well over 80% of those in the mainstream media say they vote democrat, that it just comes out because it is not possible to separate ones self from that bias completely.

The only claim that I could find to the 80% figure online was from Fox's John Gibson.

The Pew Research Center, however, came to a very different conclusion, citing the political leanings of journalists at 34% liberal, 54% moderate, and 7% conservative. That seems more reasonable to me and also seems to indicate that the conservatives have moved so far to the right in some respects that moderates appear to be liberals to them.

I agree completely. I consider myself a moderate, but I have been called a liberal many times simply because I don't agree with most of the policies of the Bush Administration.

Yes, that is the result of self-identification surveys, which is still quite a bit more "liberal" than the general population in self-identification surveys.

But just like everybody thinks they are in the middle class, most post people think they are moderate politically regardless of their actual views (I had a coworker who insisted that he was moderate but felt that Gavin Newsome is too conservative). When those who self-identify as moderate, or middle-of-the-road are asked specific policy questions they are much more likely to come down on the "liberal" side of it (significantly more likely than the general population to support homosexual marriage, availablity of abortion without restriction, and gun control, for example) than the general population.

This is from the academic, non-partisan onece-every-decade "The American Journalist" report. Self identification in the 2002 report was 40% left or a little left, 33% "middle of the road," and 25% right or a little right. That number is up slightly on the middle and right compared to 1992.

In the general population at large the same self reporting was 17%, 42%, 41%.

So even if the 80% number is wrong, reporters as a cohort are much more liberal than the population at large and this perception is exacerbated by the fact that national reporters (8 major newspapers, the broadcast and cable news channels) are in turn more likely than the average for all journalists to self identify as "left or a little bit left." Self-identified conservative journalists are much more likely to be found in local journalism than national journalism.

By party affiliation, 36% were registered Democrats and 18% were registered Republicans. In the general population it is 32%/31%.


The key thing for me in talking about media bias is that most people put the political middle whereever they themselves are standing. In studies both a majority of Democrats and a majority of Republicans complain that the media is biased and they complain in opposite directions.

I can think of a lot of examples over the last 10-15 years of not being able to recall things when giving testimony to congress.

There is a concerted effort on both the right and the left to redefine what is the center. Each group wants their core beliefs to be considered as centrist in an effort to get votes. The definition of right, center, and left will always be under such a flux and lose their meaning as both sides of center constantly try to move it. This is why I have no desire to be considered a centrist. Who the hell knows what that is from day to day?

Unlike the previous innocent decade involving Iran/contra.

How far back should we go with the finger pointing? Apparantly, not so far as to mention the man in your avatar. Now, there was someone with a memory! ;)

Or...

We could focus on what is going on in the present time.

I can agree with that to an extent. However, it is not possible to exist in a vacuum of the present when the present is affected by decisions of the past.

But speaking of the present, wasn't this thread about Air America having financial problems leading to bankruptcy? I believe it was none other than Tref who changed to subject at hand to the "conservative" Time (still just cracks me up to say that, but again, it's all perspective) riding off into the sunset and that it was conservatives who are dead in the water.