From what I've heard, and I may be completely wrong, Joe the Plumber was investigated in Ohio using government equipment by government employees to dig up dirt on him to try to discredit him, when all he did was ask a question. So, yeah, I suppose technically he can still say whatever he wants, but if that is true, that's pretty intimidating for anyone who simply wants to ask a questiion of a leader.

If you're referring to the TV interviewer who interviewed Biden, perhaps she did. Can I point out agendas of 90% of the media in their Obama bias? Bias isn't the issue. The issue is that asking questions led to people digging up dirt on her. If that's OK with you, then OK. If you want to dig up dirt on anyone who dares ask questions of a government official or someone campaigning. I think that might be problematic.

Turning a mirror on the media is not a new thing- perhaps it's just odd when it happens to someone who is biased toward your point of view. I read Faux- remember?

This appears to be true. But until shown otherwise all that it seems to be is an overzealous DMV idiot who misused their access to sensitive information. It happens in every single election on both sides. I wonder what would happen if a similar investigation to see how many times people with access to government databases pulled info on Obama, McCain, Biden.

But that's not even the issue. The issue is that one idiot breaking the law and invading someone's privacy is not equal to violation of first amendment rights.

What was the "dirt" on the TV anchor beyond that her husband apparently was affiliated with McCain's campaign?

And Joe the Plumber is as much a part of the McCain campaign now as anyone. If he didn't want scrutiny, he should've respectfully asked McCain to stop using him. Joe apparently is even considering a run for Congress, so to say that all he did was 'ask a question" is disingenuous. The backgrounds of campaign workers and potential candidates have been fair game for a long time, for better or worse. It was wrong for it to be done by a government employee on government equipment, but I see no abrogation of his rights here, just normal scrutiny.

There was talk of her husband's DUI....I think. I can't recall exactly.

OK, Tom, campaign workers can be scrutinized. I would say that Michelle Obama has been campaigning for her husband, yet Obama and the Obamites scream "that's not fair" blah, blah, blah whenever she has been scrutinized.

The point is that there are very, very few people who ask Biden or Obama tough questions. Joe the Plumber started out as a guy that stood in a crowd and spoke to Obama and all he did was say "You're going to raise my taxes, huh?". Obama's response is the issue, but the goal of the Obama campaign has been to make Joe the Plumber the issue. NO ONE made Obama say he wants to spread the wealth around. NO ONE except Obama. And it was a window into what Obama the non-campaigner believes.

That has got to be the funniest thing I've read all day. LOL!!!!




(That was a joke, right?)

No matter how hard I try, I can't seem to make Palin's remarks about the First Amendment into a reference about how Joe the Plumber was investigated. She seems, on the face of it, to be clearly saying that the media (not the Obama campaign) should not criticize her for "going negative" about Obama's associations, and that by doing so, they are endangering her right to free speech. Is there some missing portion I'm not seeing?

In any case, I don't get this whole Joe the Plumber thing. It really has me baffled. Am I supposed to regard him as a hero? Someone who represents me? Am I supposed to relate to him? Because I find him repulsive and tiresome. Obama's "spread the wealth" answer was stupid, and a gift to McCain that might as well have been wrapped in gold paper with ribbons of sizzling hot bacon. But, this bald, sour-faced plumber guy? He looks like the kind of humorless sh!thead that has occasionally threatened to beat me up at work. (Happens from time to time - big guy gets drunk, forgets he's watching actors in a show, and goes ballistic.) No thanks. I'm really puzzled by McCain's continued use of him. Yuck. (For all I know, he may be a total sweetheart of a guy, but he looks like someone central casting would choose if their script called for bouncer, goon squad guy or skinhead.)

And if he's an unlicensed plumber concerned about his taxes being raised ... because he's a tax dogder who has a back-taxes lien on his house ... who besides McCain is to blame for making him an instant fauxlebrity worthy of media attention and scrutiny?

There's nothing wrong per se with asking Obama a question about taxes (though perhaps a tax dodger shouldn't do that on camera), but it's not the question that made him the object of media attention. It was McCain mentioning him on national TV 26 times in the space of an hour.

^ Exactly.

I can agree with that. The guy wants the spotlight, the guy can be exposed. Fine. Why then should Michelle Obama be off limits?

But again, the real story which all the negative attention on Joe the Plumber is trying to deflect is Obama's answer to the question.

The normally lucid scaeagles is making my brain hurt with the non-sequiturs.

- You still haven't acknowledged that the Palin quote about the First Amendment has jack-all to do with Joe the Plumber. Your dodge has been extremely successful, as the conversation has gone plumber-crazy since then. (Am I wrong? Really, go back and look! Have I missed something?)

- What about Michelle needs to come out? This isn't about the suppressed "whitey" tape, is it?

- Obama's answer to JoePlumb has been given huge amounts of exposure, criticism and commentary. I myself called it a bacon-wrapped gift to McCain just a few posts back. What more do you need?

I have absolutely no problem with Joe's big question. He had every right to ask, and I totally see that the answer he got plays right into the reasons conservatives don't trust Obama's economic goals. Hunky dory.

Now give me satisfaction about the Palin quote, willya? I mean, it really does sound like she thinks she should be above criticism and the press should shut up, right? Am I crazy? :D

There are two real stories: 1) Obama's answer to the question and 2) McCain's judgment in making a working class icon of Joe the Plumber and thinking that he can ride that horse to victory.

Turns out, of course, that, like most of disparaged Hollywood, Joe would trade his plunger in a heartbeat for 15 minutes of fame and the accompanying quick shot of cash. If his country deal doesn't pan out, I'd like to see him fight Kimbo Slice.

If it were up to me, we wouldn't be investigating the backgrounds of Michelle Obama or Joe the plumber. Nobody asked me, though.

Flippy, Sarah Palin thinks she should be above criticism and the press should shut up.

I have no idea if you're crazy.

I'm not - I just want someone to admit that he totally changed/ dodged the subject. (Even if it turned out to be a popular subject.) Petty, I know.

With all the criticism Palin has gotten from the press, I believe this may be the first time she's said anything about it....and that's only if I accept that's what she was referring to. You'll note I haven't been on here defending Palin at all....I just happen to think this was a reference to the dirt dug up on Joe the Plumber. I'm most certainly not trying to dodge the subject. Because I think that's what she referring to, I don't know how that's changing the subject. Yes, you certainly admitted it was a stupid thing for Obama to say, and I have admitted that Joe the Plumber is choosing now to be in the spotlight....I just happen to think that's what she was referring to, so I just tried to explain why I think it's a problem. If Palin was suggesting that media criticsm of what she says is suppression of free speech, then that's stupid.

Does that do it for you Flippy?

As far as Michelle Obama needing to be investigated.....I don't think she does per se, I was simply making reference to when Obama told the media to "leave my wife alone" and they did. She's certainly campaigning at least as much as Joe the Plumber.

I'm curious, and I honestly don't know, so this isn't meant to be rhetorical....has Palin been telling the media to stop criticizing her? I know she went on SNL, which has been ripping her in their skits, so that doesn't really seem like telling them to stop...it seems like engaging them.

Here's the quote.



What in the hell does that have to do with Joe the Plumber?

I'm not sure if we're both looking at the same quote. It seems really blatant to me, and I don't know how you were able to read it the way you did. But, it doesn't sounds like we disagree in principle about the various topics raised in this particular sidebar.

OK - I read it more carefully when GD reposted it, and I fully admit that is what she said.

My apologies.

You're a gentleman.

Don't tell anyone. They'll think you're as crazy as they think I am.

Okay, the McCain appearance opening SNL was effing brilliant and funny.
MCCain Fine Gold

Here is the link: SNL

McCain is good and his timing is as sharp as a tack. I don't know if it was the right thing to do but it was interesting decision, if not a historical one. Didn't Lincoln do a small cameo in Our American Cousin?

^ Not a cameo, so much as an interruption. I hate audience members who think every play is the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

No candy for you!

Now, that's an egging. Preferably while her door is open.

(I don't think the other guy knows how to make a peace sign, either. Neighborhood needs some hippies.)

My Great-Aunt Nettie says "too soon."

She's still angry about the damn Yankees tromping through her begonias?

I read about this nutjob- she looks pretty much as I imagined she would. What a b i t c h. Notice how little candy she was giving out, affixed to the McCain flyers? One little piece- we give out handfuls. To everyone.

John McCain's appearance on SNL last night was brilliant. Seriously funny. Way better than the real Palin's appearance. And my Tina was freakin' hysterical.

McCain is a funny man. When watching the clip I was like, 'Oh yeah, I remember why he was my favorite Republican. Not recently, but before.'

I wonder if this is the last time we'll see Fey as Palin. sniff sniff.

One thing I noticed was Fey's reaction to McCain at the very, very end. I'm convinced this was Fey breaking character reacting to McCain being a very good sport. I love it.

McCain on SNL, very funny. Some great writing for that sketch, every joke was hilarious.

Palin punked
Wow. How funny and awkward at the same time.
I was also wondering how assistants to the candidates or any politician really know if a phone call like this is authentic.

So I was watching CNN or something when they were talking about this incident. I haven't heard the whole thing, but I did hear the snippet about going 'unting on an 'elicopter.

Two things:

- Her staff is, at least according to the analyst on TV, *HORRIBLE*. Team Palin was basically the B-team out of McCain's staff, plus some Bush people. Sarah Palin would NEVER take a call directly from anyone purporting to be a high-ranking politician, which means that her staff did not properly vet the call before handing it to her. They may have been so excited that Sarkozy was calling for Palin that they just totally fell for it.

- Second, the caller's French accent is just terrible. It's extremely exaggerated and it sounds like an English speaker using a mock French accent... which I think is what was going on. It speaks volumes that Sarah Palin (or her staff) neither recognized the accent was fishy. Sarkozy isn't a fluent English speaker but I believe (as a rabid fan of the U.S.) he's been studying a lot since he took office.

Her staff should have said "Governor Palin is busy, what is a good time to call you back?" Then they should have taken a number and gotten an ID from directory assistance.

The election may be over, but life still happens.

Wait. I thought people ceased to exist once I stopped paying attention to them.

This story calls into question my entire cosmology.

I see you are following the more high-brow literature...

I want to know who told him to wear a navy jacket with brown pants?

At first I pictured tan pants and wondered what was wrong with that. But good lord, then I saw the picture! Brown as a chocolate bar, OMG.