Lounge of Tomorrow - The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

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- - The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) (http://74.208.121.111/LoT/showthread.php?t=3249)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWBear (Post 282407)

I have a question for our conservative friends... When did eating Dijon mustard become un-American? Seriously. I must have missed that memo.

That's Freedom Mustard to you, son.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWBear (Post 282407)

I have a question for our conservative friends... When did eating Dijon mustard become un-American? Seriously. I must have missed that memo.

Don't know....personally I love dijon mustard....I also prefer, like many Europeans, mayonnaise on my freedom fries:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew (Post 282413)

I have to think the two guys in limos are probably Republicans.

Country club Republicans........like the Boss Hogg type Democrats of yesteryear, an extinct animal;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth (Post 282416)

That's Freedom Mustard to you, son.

:snap: :snap:

I'm entirely conflicted whether I agree with the "pick a woman and/or an Hispanic person" strategy for the Supreme Court nom. I really do see both sides of it and I can't really settle on which I think is "right".

They should pick the person who most agrees with MY opinion. I have preference if they have innies or outties or what color of skin they have.

I want him to appoint a liberal, tree hugging, hippie, vegetarian, cross dressing, lesbian Arab just so I can watch the collective heads of Limbaugh, Hannity, and Bachman explode. I'm just evil that way...

Question:

Was the Waterboarding of prisoners at Guantanamo during the Bush Administration illegal under US law?

The only law I found passed by congress was that the US ratified the UN's Convention Against Torture but that ratification was filled with weasel words like "not self-executing"

So is there a clear smoking gun to use to prosecute government officials or not?

Well if you read what it says directly after "not self executing" it says that torture inside the US was already criminalized and that sections 2340 and 2340A of the criminal code were added to criminalize torture outside of the US. Here's section 2340.

Title 18 §2340A:

Quote:

(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

(b) Jurisdiction.— There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if— (1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.

(c) Conspiracy.— A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

So, if waterboarding is determined to be torture (and I personally think it is and that a long history of case law agrees) then it seems to me that is your statute.

Here's the definition of torture given in that section:

Quote:

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control; (2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from— (A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality;

And recent (2006) changes to the War Crimes Act would also further criminalize it though that wouldn't necessarily apply to the waterboarding in question.

That change also giving lie to the idea that congress has not done anything recently to make torture more illegal (a lie which also ignores that Congress last year passed a law specifically limiting the CIA to practices that do not include waterboarding but the president vetoed it).

And before somebody says "but, but, but, Pelosi!!!!" I'll say now that if she was aware it was being used then she should be subject to the same potential punishments as anybody else in similar positions.

If Obama nominated Jesus to the SC

It's funny because that's just what would happen.