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-   -   A Prop 8 challenge for swankers (http://74.208.121.111/LoT/showthread.php?t=8699)

innerSpaceman 11-05-2008 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernabog (Post 251357)
I am having a very difficult time today comprehending how to deal with people, particularly Mormons and Christians. They are misguided bigots who are either too stupid to think for themselves or too chickensh!t to stand up to a church that they know is hurting people.

I do know that any respect that I had for them -- they can find their own path to God as long as it doesn't hurt me -- is obviously over. I just can't tell who the good people are and the bad people are just from walking down the street, y'know?
Worse than that, for me (as I alluded to last night), I have some good friends who are good people AND Mormons ... and I'm gonna have a hard time telling their obviously good side from their obviously bad side during the future times of our relationships.

In any case, if I can get out of my previous obligation for this evening, I'd like to attend the rally to, yes, process some of my distressing feelings today. I'd certainly like to process them in a more healthy and releasing way than I have so far (which this morning involved a scalding hot shower of water and tears, and a razor blade when the soap was not enough to wash away the disgusting filth I felt.)


Hmmm, maybe I need psychotherapy instead. :mad:


And of course, I'm mindful of LPSE and Tom's story last night of meeting the day after their 2004 crushing election defeat and falling in love.


Yes, hmmm, rally in WeHo. :D

LSPoorEeyorick 11-05-2008 01:57 PM
We will be at the rally tonight. Our marriage isn't truly valid until yours are.

Cadaverous Pallor 11-05-2008 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac (Post 251349)
Have fun at your rally. If you get some sort of venting enjoyment out of it, that's fine. I will not be attending the futility.

Ya see, when somebody's imaginary friend tells them that fâggots aren't worth shït, there's really nothing intelligent, open-minded people can do (including protesting) to sway them. The only thing we can hope for is that these fücktards will eventually die off and people who can actually think will prevail.
The only way things change is if people stand up and are counted.

Every person attending the rally means one more number to add to the headline the next day. Every sign placed means that more people are forced to consider their positions again. Sitting back and accepting a fate of inequality will only result in more inequality.

Fight, fight, fight, otherwise nothing ever changes.

madmonkeygirl 11-05-2008 02:02 PM
It disgusts me that people are that way and i am very saddened that people think that they can take away people's constiutional rights to marry who they want to. It's like to me what if someone's kid comes to them saying they are gay? then what? Or is that kid gonna be so homophobic that they stay in the closet affecting their health etc. Sad sad world that we live in. I just can't imagine taking away someone's right. It's discrimination of sorts in a way. Ok i could go on and on but i won't.

BarTopDancer 11-05-2008 02:11 PM
Andrew sent me this a bit earlier. It may have come before LHC conceeded

Quote:
Nov 05, 2008 Statement by No on Prop 8 Campaign on Election Status [http://www.noonprop8.com/headlines/s...status/%5d Roughly 400,000 votes separate yes from no on Prop 8 – out of 10 million votes tallied. Based on turnout estimates reported yesterday, we expect that there are more than 3 million and possibly as many as 4 million absentee and provisional ballots yet to be counted. Given that fundamental rights are at stake, we must wait to hear from the Secretary of State tomorrow how many votes are yet to be counted as well as where they are from. It is clearly a very close election and we monitored the results all evening and this morning. As of this point, the election is too close to call. Because Prop 8 involves the sensitive matter of individual rights, we believe it is important to wait until we receive further information about the outcome. Geoff Kors Executive Committee NO on Prop 8 K

innerSpaceman 11-05-2008 02:24 PM
GC, check your PMs.


All others who are going, shall we have a meet plan or just rely on cell phones?

Andrew 11-05-2008 02:35 PM
Quote:
As the vote counting continued this morning, opponents of Prop. 8 filed a lawsuit directly with the state Supreme Court - whose May 15 ruling legalized same-sex marriage - asking the justices to overturn the measure.

The suit argued that Prop. 8 would change the California Constitution in such fundamental ways - taking important rights away from a minority group - that it amounted to a constitutional revision, which requires approval by the Legislature before being submitted to the voters.
Source

SzczerbiakManiac 11-05-2008 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick (Post 251374)
Our marriage isn't truly valid until yours are.
Thank you for that ray of light on this very, very dark day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor (Post 251379)
Every person attending the rally means one more number to add to the headline the next day. Every sign placed means that more people are forced to consider their positions again.
It doesn't matter if there are 5 or five million at the rally. It doesn't matter how many No on H8 signs they read on their way home form work. Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change the mind of a "person" who thinks homosexuals are not full human beings.

You cannot reason a person out of a position they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor (Post 251379)
Sitting back and accepting a fate of inequality will only result in more inequality.
I don't disagree with you on that point. I just think that a rally will not change any enemy minds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmonkeygirl (Post 251380)
what if someone's kid comes to them saying they are gay? then what? Or is that kid gonna be so homophobic that they stay in the closet affecting their health etc.
The most likely scenarios are:
  1. The kid stays in the closet and becomes sick and/or commits suicide.
  2. The kid grows up and becomes a gay basher. He who screams "fag" loudest invariably is one.

Ghoulish Delight 11-05-2008 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac (Post 251390)

It doesn't matter if there are 5 or five million at the rally. It doesn't matter how many No on H8 signs they read on their way home form work. Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change the mind of a "person" who thinks homosexuals are not full human beings.

You cannot reason a person out of a position they weren't reasoned into in the first place.
Just as nothing could have changed the minds of people who didn't think blacks were human.

The good news is, you don't have to change the minds of those too entrenched to change. You need to change the minds of the small few who are simply misinformed, and the ones who just didn't understand the importance and didn't vote.

Prop 8 did not win in a landslide. It barely snuck by. The louder those of us who know better are now, the more likely things will tilt the other way next time.

Stan4dSteph 11-05-2008 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernabog (Post 251357)
It is not to change anyone's minds, but a way to process the crushing blow we have been dealt. I am having a very difficult time today comprehending how to deal with people, particularly Mormons and Christians. They are misguided bigots who are either too stupid to think for themselves or too chickensh!t to stand up to a church that they know is hurting people.

I do know that any respect that I had for them -- they can find their own path to God as long as it doesn't hurt me -- is obviously over. I just can't tell who the good people are and the bad people are just from walking down the street, y'know?
That's a hurtful generalization. I don't live in CA, so I couldn't vote on Prop 8, but I would have voted no. I am also a Christian.


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