FYI - GD is right about my father. He can be a total pompus prejudiced ass. We've had some doozy arguments about the big issues. I know he loves me, yet thinks that I'm part of the problem with the world today, calling me a yuppie liberal behind my back, a grevious offense in that house. :rolleyes: And conversely, I don't like his attitudes or behavior, in fact believe he's a hate-mongerer, yet I still love him, regardless. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Try being Keyes's daughter. Imagine how frustrating that would be. Conflicting stances, the uncertainty of a father's love, being in the public eye, coming out, lack of support, being okay with yourself...

I consider myself ignorant on what you're saying about alcoholism and I will research that and get back to you. But I doubt Keyes could even say that when it came to his daughter. So if they do want to take this conflict public, then we're allowed to discuss what we think about him and his daughter. I don't think we should judge their love for one another, we don't know them personally, but we can discuss, agree and disagree... Right?

I'm not meaning to be frustrating and I don't know anything about genetics. All I do know is that I DO know what it's like to have parents judge you as Keyes is doing...

:)

Your views can/could change. So could his. But if he had a problem with you if you were a lesbian, could you still love him? I know a little about you and I think you could. However, I am not that strong of a person to say I could.

Seems to me she is certain of her fathers love.

I still love how quick people are to call people homophobes because they disapprove of the lifestyle/behavior/whatever- I don't think they are in the least bit afraid of gay people.

And how fast some people are to label, when they themselves shrug off labels angrily when they are applied to them- and judge when they claim to think that judging others is wrong-and make assumptions, but are angry when people assume about them-

I understand where you are coming from, GC. I really do. I don't question that they love their daughter either. That's never been my position. Parents want what is best for their child. I get that.

I do understand the concept of "Love the sinner, hate the sin" as it would apply to something like alcoholism or thievery. I also understand that in their mind, there is no difference between those examples and homosexuality.

My frustration comes from the fact that when the concept "LTS, HTS" is applied to being gay, it can actually do more harm than good, IMO, even if that harm isn't deliberate.

Did you mean GD, by any chance?

Just wanted to point out that the definition of homophobia is a fear or hatred of homosexuality. You don't have to be afraid of a gay person to be a homophobe.

That's the question on all of these issues. Are they learned behaviors, genetics, or a combination?

That's scary territory if you ask me. If you have parents that are obese, can insurance companies charge you more for health insurance? Can health insurers refuse coverage if you are unwilling to be "genetically screened" in the future? What if insurers refused to give coverage to gay men because the rate of AIDS is higher? What if a "genetic therapy" could be offered to any gay person who no longer wants to be gay? There are hundreds and thousands of such questions.

I don't think I want them answered.

I'm not going to get into this. The same arguments of nature vs. nurture can be had for alcoholism, homosexualtiy, philanthropy, disney fan-dom, gambling addiction, philately (no, not that), or any number of personality traits. It's becoming more and more clear that the answer lies somewhere in between, that genetics lays out a path of possibilities and predispositions and environment/experience shapes which paths are taken. But neither is a guarantee of anything and it's a complex interaction.

Ummm, yeah. :blush: