The courthouse is right on Lake Merritt and I used to run near there all of the time at night. No it isn't the nicest downtown in the world but it isn't the worst either.

But yeah, it is hard to know what Prudence's temperament is for city living (I don't know where she lives in Seattle). And while I can tolerate Northern California (though don't really like it) I find the thought of living in Southern California abominable. I also can't fathom liking suburban life so we're definitely going to be giving difference viewpoints.

Which is what's so awesome about this board :)

For me, while I like being near lots of stuff and excitement, I don't want to do it if I can't find parking. So needless to say, I don't like super dense areas.

That's a thread in itself.

The ninth circuit?

Oh please! Everyone knows the 9th is a bunch of dweebs.

Anyone who's a hoopy frood is chilin with the Fourth Circuit. Yeah, that's where you belong!

I have no idea what he said, but he sounded cool doing it.

That's OK. As long as you know where your towel is at you can hitch with me any day.

Depth perception

Politics, for one thing.

Beyond that, I'm not sure it's that simple. Northern or southern, I tend to group people by the degree to which they feel they're not alive unless they're rumbling around in some vehicle. Once you get beyond SF/Oakland/Berkeley in the Northern California region, this disease is just as prevalent as it is in southern California.

All the livable cities articles state that the requirement of a livable city is good public transportation and a nice walkable downtown that's not too far removed from residential areas. I think more northern California cities fit that bill than southern California cities which are more heavily populated with strip malls.

There are certainly generalities attributed to N. Ca and S. Ca but it seems to depend on how close you are to the coast. The Northern coastal part of the state is generally considered more liberal than the Southern part (where coastal access doesn't seem to matter too much in political leanings). The South is a LOT more populous than the North with more development, more people, more freeways, more housing tracts, more strip malls, etc. Not too far north of San Francisco you hit pretty rural areas fairly quickly. The entire northern part of the state is relatively empty (compared to the populous south). Inland, Central California can get pretty redneck in places and downright conservative - at least the rural places my siblings have lived.

My town is filled with 21,000 people...and our largest building is a mental hospital. You figure it out from there...