well, how much of your own cash have you committed to the cause? The government may be one avenue of help, but it's not the only one. I don't think you can condemn a group of people not know what they themselves have done to help others in need outside of "giving at the office" via the government.

They should be, but they aren't. I support full health care for all US citizens. We don't have that, which means we don't have the funding set up for it.

Without health care for all, we're pretty much stuck picking and choosing. Thank you for accusing me of cavalierly letting people die, especially since I said nothing of the sort. An apology would be appreciated.

There are plenty of treatable diseases that aren't covered by the government right now.

Oh, and did you have that list of gov't programs you're going to cut ready?

How much is a human life worth? Not every life can be saved, and it's hard not to view the financial decision as intertwined with a policy decision about who is worth saving and whether a "no" vote is a dispassionate one or smacks in some way of persecution. I suspect JW Bear would have a different view about cutting some posited government funded program to regrow spinal cords for ATV accident victims.

And in the end the government still can't ensure my immortality - bastards

Seriously: that is what you think is going on here?

Seriously?

Get your head out of your ass. No one here has represented that they cavalierly want anyone with HIV/AIDS to suddenly lose their source of medication that keeps them alive. You are not the only one here that knows people with HIV/AIDS or has lost friends to the same disease. This is not just a "gay" disease: it affects everyone.

But some of us see outside of our own little individual worlds to see that there are others out there that need help.

I sincerely hope that those of you who have no problem with the state cutting ADAP, and condemning many thousands to their deaths, have never had to watch someone they love die for no reason other than the inability to afford medical care. I hope you have never fallen in love with someone only to watch them whither and die as you watch helplessly. I hope this because it's easier to think you support these cuts out of ignorance of the human suffering that will result, rather than out of knowing but uncaring indifference.

I would ask you to find the parents of a child dying of AIDS and tell them, to their face, that their child needs to die because "We have to cut something". Tell the single mother that she will never be able to see her child grow up because it's not the government's place to pay for her medical care. Look into the eyes of a man who's only hope for life is the medications he can only have because of ADAP. Watch the fear and despair in his eyes as he realizes he has just been condemned to die a long and unpleasant death while the Governor and his cronies smoke their cigars and pat themselves on the back for "winning" one against the "other side".

There is something terribly wrong with a society where the lives of those less fortunate can be sacrificed on the altar of Less Government.

Go ahead and continue sitting in your comfortable middle class houses, in your comfortable middle class neighborhoods, living your comfortable middle class lives where you never have to decide between paying rent or buying medications - because you can't afford both (or either). Go right ahead and keep discussing these cuts with all the dispassion of just another political chess game. As for me... I'm done here.

The funny thing is that no one here has said they "have no problem with with the state cutting ADAP"

Yep, no one here has said that, JW. What some of us have said is that the cuts are going to be painful, no matter where they come from

I for one, have said this particular cut is so deplorable, it must be a ploy for outrage or an expression of pique on behalf of a governator who lost big at the recent election.

It's so horrible I can't believe it's true, but Monday is the day we find out ... and I'm shocked to learn this may be truth and not a badly-conceived ploy to shock constituents.

That being said, I still think whatever cuts are going to be made are going to be horribly painful to some people. But this seems among the most painful possible cuts and I am against it with ever fiber of my being.


JW, please re-read this thread. I don't believe anyone has expressed the remotest inking of support for this humanitarian disaster.

I think that the issue of which diseases to cover is for another discussion (and boy is it s doozy!!) however my reasong would be this:

We are presently covering HIV/AIDS for whatever reason (I guess because state govt voted to do so) so therefore shouldn't we continue to do so based on the fact that, if the state withdraws that funding and the Fed govt wont pick up the program and fund it themselves, then the drugs will no longer be available for most people and they will die.

I am surprised there aren't more non-life supporting programs that could be trimmed. First and foremost the State's Politicians Wages, Retirement packages, etc.

Stoat adds: We're very sorry to see the state of CA is so far into their list of "trimmable/expendable funds" that they are up to Life-Support programs already !!

I find it quite telling that of the 7 updated threads listed this morning, 3 of them were discussing the State of California's failures:
The California Budget Woes and Me
Schwarzeneggar Proposes to End HIV/AIDS Services
Post Prop H8 Fallout