Borders Going Bye Bye
 

Much to Susan's chagrin, Borders today announced that they are closing the last of their stores - possibly as soon as this week.

It's an end of an era. What was it they sold? Those papers attached together with words on them, what are they called? Oh, yeah. Books.....

When will B&N go. At this point the one across the street from us is just in the way of me getting to the stores I actually go to.

How I wish I had a good bookstore closer. It's a half hour drive to any bookstore from me.

I hope my B&N lasts a good long while. I don't buy a lot of books there, but I do spend a good 15 to 20 hours a week writing there. (and buying obligation chai.)

Sad. I don't buy many books, but always purchased mine there. Books are something I don't buy online - I like to browse. Granted, I spent 90% of my time in Borders browsing without buying.


But the truth is, I don't buy many books. Most of those I do are for gifts. I'd have purchased far more music and movies at Borders if their prices were competitive.


Too bad. And totally sucks about the 10,000 people now out of a job. Ugh.

flippy: B&N was quicker on the e-reader bandwagon, so they might be holding up better. Also, I always thought the smart thing they did in their business was to provide seating areas where you could peruse the books you were interested in, so that you got into them and then convince yourself that you needed to buy. And B&N's biggest mistake was when they let the number of chairs in their stores dwindle to where that became difficult. But with the Starbucks in the stores (also a revenue source), that's been less of an issue in recent years.

So I went by what used to be the HUGE Borders store near my office, and it's now a Crown Books. They've used a makeshift wall of bookshelves to block off the former Starbucks area and, oddly, the entire rear half of the store. I can understand that the side space of former Starbucks can be formally partitioned and leased out by Westfield as a separate retail operation - but there's nothing Westfield can do with the rear half of a giant space that has no access to the public throroughfare. Very strange.

And they managed to take what was a very upscale Borders location and, without adding anything new of their own, use the leftover fixtures and furnishings to create a decidedly downscale, totally schlocky shopping environment. (And, hahaha, all the "BORDERS" etchings on the windows have had the BS removed, and now read "ORDER.")



Sadly, a very unique and fantastic bookstore, Brentano's, was closed just downstairs from the Borders when it opened about 5 years ago. So now we're left with a really crappy Crown Books that is 30 steps down in quality from Brentano's. Bah.

My friend from Indana worked at a Border's bookstore that was closed the first round of store closings. She worked there for over 10+ years. She is now unemployed. It sucks. As much as I do like online book buying with my IPad instead of a paper back I loved going into an actual book store once in awhile. I have a feeling that with all this technology items books will sadly become a thing of the past (actual books not those downloaded etc for Kindle's, IPads etc) just like pay phones and actual phone booths are becoming extinct.

Either that, or all the small bookstores will rise again in the absence of the big boys we were all complaining about 10-15 years ago.

I predict a demise of reading altogether - all information will just be absorbed via osmosis

I used to love Crown Books! Between Crown and Walden my allowance didn't stand a chance. Had no idea Crown was still around.

Because that worked so well for studying.

I was just thumbing through an old book that mentioned B. Dalton in its acknowledgements.

Sure, we all think the premise of 84 Charing Cross Road was charming--send letters to England, get books--but that was the first step to Amazon and the death of the local book store.

Same here! Crown was my favorite back in the day.

Well kiddies, times change. And it's driven by technonlogy. When I was a teen, we use to hang out at Tower Records. They were open late and you could brouse and they had the music cranked up in the store. They died out, to be replaced with the likes of Best Buy.

The Space Shuttle Atlantis just landed for the last time a little while ago, ending a 30 year mission. Now it will go into the publics hands, away from the government. It almost seems like a step backwards, but it will be interesting to see where this goes.....

On the other hand, I can connect with friends around the world, watch movies, live TV, stream live video to the world, and even make phone calls just by reaching into my pocket.

Yours is a powerful tool.

I am hoping that this will speed a resurgence of little local bookstores . . . I do love a small used and new mixed bookstore.

Interesting point. The used book market should be flooded with all the books from these closings. Unless they do the tear the cover off bury them in a pit thing.

I would love to have a bookstore near me like that!

I always like B&N better than Borders for the Big Box store options (I was just at B&N last night). But, what I really miss is Acres of Books - the best used book store on the planet. The day it closed was a very sad day.

I'm also curious if this is going to make BN a stronger entity or if it will go the way of Borders. They've put much more investment in technology to retain customers with their Nook (which has a cool new version that was just released).

My mom bought, and returned a Nook. She said it was too hard to use.

I have a Nook color and love it, thought I wish I had an actual tablet for the data connection.

Yes, while it is a bit sad as the older, more comfortable things pass; the new things we only dreamed of become reality. It is an exciting time to be alive!

I still have a bunch of Pickwick Bookshops bookmarks.

When I was married my husband worked for Pickwick which later became B. Dalton. The people he worked with were a wonderful book-loving bunch. Then slowly the business changed and the people working changed and at parties where everyone used to talk books they were all talking retail. It was very sad.

I worked at a B. Dalton's in the DeVargas Mall in Santa Fe, NM, back in 1984. My coworkers didn't talk books all that much with me, but the customers damn sure did. It was very low paying but I knew the stock really well, and had a pretty good intuition for what people were looking for when they came in saying, "I don't know the title or the author, but it's something about a guy, and there's this thing that happens." (The latest Stephen King novel? why, yes, that's it!

Also, because it was 1984, we had a big cardboard standee at the front of the store fully stocked with paperback copies of George Orwell's 1984. People would regularly walk past it, or brush against it, or trip over it, and then approach me and ask if we carried that book.

I spent all my paycheck on books.

I put a nail on the bookstore coffin today. I got my Kindle. Of course, I will only use it for books that have no pictures, so all of the art/craft/gardening books I guy will still be purchased as real books.

I feel no guilt in admitting I love my Kindle :)

I haven't taken the plunge yet because I keep thinking I'll get an iPad, which would also do what a Kindle does, plus more.

Sort of. A Kindle is more book like than an iPad. You are reading ink, electrostatic ink but still ink. It's easier on the eyes than an LCD screen. It also uses less power so you can go for days on end without plugging in.

On the other hand, you can't play angry birds on it.

I'm also holding out for an iPad (whatever new model or upgrade Apple releases this year). Not worried about the LCD screen - I stare at one all day. Plus, the new B&N Nook Color (the one they're pushing hard) has an LCD screen.

As much as I'd love a dedicated book reader, I'd also like to read comics in color. All of the other things the iPad can do (even Angry Birds) just helps push it over the edge for me.

I stare at LCD screens all day too, but find I can't really read a book on one. It is a different kind of staring I guess.

That said, my recommendation is to go ahead an get a tablet with book app if these two conditions apply to you:

1. You can comfortably read a book on an LCD screen for whatever durations you typically read.
2. The need to charge the device daily won't be an issue for you
Mini-3. You don't spend a lot of time reading outside in the sun.

If those are true for you (neither is for me) then the only remaining benefit for the dedicated device is form factor in that it is still and and more comfortable to hold one handed than the tablets. I occasionally see a Nook Color on BART and I just don't get it, it seems to combine the negative aspects of both instead of the best of both.

I would still love an iPad, but the price point is so much higher, it is a lot more akward, and the monthly expense is great. The Kindle is compact, easy to read, very portable, has a great price point and, so far, I'm really liking it.

I am, however, getting used to the fact that it doesn't have a touch screen!

I love my kindle as well. I do read outdoors a lot and it's perfect.

I miss wandering through a bookstore though and just picking up a random book that looks interesting. It's a little hard to shop the kindle store like that. And I still can't tell how far I am in the book even with the indicator at the bottom.

I'll still need to go to bookstores for cookbooks and such but for my everyday reading I love it.

I agree about the initial price point - but there's no real monthly expense unless you decide to pay for a month of 3G (unlike the iPhone, you don't need to have a contract - you can do one month at a time).

And I'll bet the next gen Kindle will have a touch screen... it's the only eReader that doesn't have one...

Or, if you don't plan to travel with it, and have WiFi at home, iPad is free once you buy it. The 3G plans seem cheap enough.

I've actually downloaded the Kindle for the PC to read a kindle only book someone has loaned me. That is kind of weird, but it works well.

And now there is a (very unverified) rumor floating around the Apple is interested in buying Barnes and Noble.

I find reading comics on the iPad a true joy, and very addictive.

I have a Nook Color and while I love it I realized what I really wanted was a tablet. I still need to jailbreak it so I can have full access to the Android app store and it may help alleviate that feeling. Without the full app store, it's still a decent poormans tablet with a decent built in music player. I read and listened to music on my flight to/from UT and read while there, didn't need to charge the battery until few days after I got home. The books aren't on a solid white background, it's more of a muted beige.

I also bought a highly rated anti-glare screen and while I don't spend a whole lot of time in the sun it's done its job well so far.

Wait, you don't need an internet contract to get connected on an iPad? It's month-to-month, really? Well, as soon as they put a disc drive in that sucker, I'm sold!

A wha?

You know, those 5" floppy disks all the kids these days use.

HEY! You promised you wouldn't tell anyone about that incident.




Oh, 5" floppy DISK. Never mind: forget I said anything.

My interest in an iPad was piqued only when I learned (in this thread) that I don't need to incur another $75 monthly bill for yet another device to be connected to the internet. So, yeah, I'll want a DISC to insert my own media by hand. I charge nothing for that service.

I'm also waiting for it to be a COMPUTER, and not merely a display device. Once the iPad or any decent tablet is also a REAL COMPUTER, I'm buying. Not until then.

Define "REAL COMPUTER"

I'm thinking blinking lights and punch cards - oh and a desire to enslave humans for our own good.

You know, watching a lot of 60's scifi recently, I think google is what the computer was expected to do for us in the future - answer random questions with authoritative responses. Everything else is gravy.

I've always said, if the internet were nothing but IMDB, I'd STILL happily pay $30/month for it.

Is this more like what you are thinking of?

The ASUS Eee Slider tablet.

VM

Ya know, like a laptop. But in tablet form. I want to be able to do anything, and run any software that I would be able to on the old-style portable device - but on the new-style portable device.

In fact, I've never purchased an old-school portable (such as a laptop) because I felt a less-clunky portable would be coming soon. But it's gotta be just as much a computer as a laptop, and not simply a bigger display device (essentially an iPhone that can't make phone calls).

Nope. Adding a keyboard and a mouse won't cut it. Needs to be a COMPUTER. With, ya know, computing power. Not simply a glorified television screen. I guess adding a USB port is a step in the right direction. (Do iPads have any inputs at all?)

More seriously, I guess the ability to run "Apps" is sort-of computerish. But not really. My phone runs Apps, but cannot run any of the software I've been running on my desktop for decades.

I'd like to be able to take that computing power with me wherever I go. But not so much that a laptop was ever a priority for me. Too clunky. Gotta admit, iPads are dead sexy. But I'd like a portable computer, not a giant non-phone iPhone.

The question is not what can it run. The question is, what do you want to accomplish with it?

If I'm hearing you right, you don't so much want a "real computer" as you want a tablet device that is Windows based and supports all the software that Windows supports?

Because as computing devices, for the most part the current crop of tablets and netbooks have the power to run your software, it is just that for the most part nobody particularly wants them to. This is not to say you're wrong in what you want, but you aren't too likely to get it in a broadly adopted platform.

Bluetooth and WiFi take away most of the needs for inputs. Cords are old school.

I only started jonesing for an iPad upon reading in this very thread that I wouldn't have to pay for monthly internet access for my third concurrent device. I can't justify that expense. Of course, like most laptop users, I'd be happy to make use of WiFi hotspots like coffee shops and such to do all my internet-based stuff, if it would save me having to pay up for a third internet device.

Really, all those billions of people who purchased laptops for the last 20 years had no desire to run the software (Windows or Mac-based) that they also enjoyed on their work or home desktop computers? I find that hard to believe. In any event, I'd partially agree - in that most of my "work" requires concentration that can't likely be found on a bus or in a coffee shop - but I'd still like the portability to do my more project-based stuff in, say, different parts of my apartment - or to tend to 15 minutes here and there while I'm sitting on a bus (assuming I'd ever take a bus - - let's say, while I'm sitting on a monorail - much more likely in my case). :p

Specifically what I tend to do with my computer that requires more than an iPad is complex photo-shop work* and complex sound-editing and video-editing. Again, not the kind of stuff I'm likely to tackle on the go, but in order to be tempted to transition from deskbound to portable, I've got to be able to. If I had a laptop, I'd be able to - so as soon as tablets catch up with that capability, and assuming I don't have to pay for monthly internet access yet again, I'm on board. I may even use the thing to read books!




* I assume something like photoshop is available for the iPad, actually.

For example... this.

Ok, that is the first thing that has made me want to give Apple money in many years.

That's pretty nifty. But I'm looking for something to edit movies I myself haven't shot. Yes, copyright infringement. There's software for that for my PC. I use it.

Is there an iPad app that will let me infringe* copyright like that? I doubt it. More important to me is sound editing software, but again - it would not be for music I created.

I'm looking for a tablet COMPUTER. Wake me when they arrive.




* I don't believe I'm actually infringing anyone's copyright if the stuff I do is never sold or publicly displayed.

You can edit pretty much anything in iMovie, but I don't think that Apple will release an ad that says "just rip your DVDs and transfer the files to your iPad for easy manipulation!"

Read between the lines.

Ah, wink wink, gotcha, say no more.

I'm curious, do you think computers existed in 1993?

Sure they did. Ah, DOS, how I miss thee.

But that couldn't have been a computer. It didn't let you edit movies.

Nowhere did I say a computer had to let me edit movies. I said that's what I personally plan to do with one.

Perhaps an iPhone is a technically a computer. But it's one that doesn't meet my needs; the needs that other computers do. What shall we call it then? A deficient computer?

Fine. The iPad is a deficient computer. And as soon as it becomes non-deficient and can do everything my desktop and Joe's laptop can do, I'll buy one.


Does that get around your snarky semantics?

Not really (you defined a "REAL COMPUTER" as one that can run the software you run on your laptop, and then specified that most importantly this is video and sound editing software, making me wonder how many computers you owned before you owned a "REAL COMPUTER"). But it does bring you around to my point. So I can live with that.

The iPhone does have a vibrate mode.

I laugh when I realize my iPhone has MUCH more power and capabilities then my first 4 or 5 computers.

And, Steve, they make portable versions of computers these days. Laptops will do everything you want and are really not much bigger than a tablet (they just have 2 sides, open and close and come with a case.

They also make ones where the screen flips around and turns into a tablet. They just tend to suck.

Laptops have always been a bit too klunky for me. I don't really NEED portability; it's just something I think is groovy. So I'm waiting for a tablet that doesn't suck and that's a computer, and not just a big iPhone with no phone.

I really don't understand Alex's deal here. I never said that a computer must run MY software to be a "real" computer; only that it must be able to run the same software that any desktop or laptop computer is or was able to, whether that's now or 1993 or any year in between. As far as I know, the iPad can't do that. It's limited to whatever "Apps" are out there, and that's not the same thing.

I think iPads are sexay and i wants one. I just have to figure out what I would actually do with one. If it were a computer, I'd get one. And if laptops were half as sexay as an iPad, I'd get one of those instead.

My home computer is 6 years old, which makes it pretty obsolete (though not to me) and more likely than not to die within the next year or so. I'd like to transition to portable, since that's been the worldwide trend. But I don't want to give up any of my current computing power or capabilities.

In fact, I'd like to transition from PC to Mac - and since you can run Windows on a Mac, that might ease the transition - since I could use all my current software until I found suitable Mac equivalents. None of this is possible on the iPad - yet. So I'm still waiting. But if my PC dies before the perfect iPad is born, I'm likely to get a cool Mac computer.

No hurry, though. $$$$ and all that.

I'm reminded of ISM's opposition to the iPhone as an impractical device he would never want to own for lack of keyboard. I suspect at some point he'll succumb to his represed techno-lust, acquire an iPad and declare it the perfect tool for his needs.

So a "Real computer" is defined as "A computer that runs one particular operating system"? Because, the word "apps" not withstanding, that's all you're talking about. No, iPhone can't run Windows applications. It can't run Mac applications. But neither can a computer running Linux. It runs applications ("apps") that are written to run on the operating system it runs.

Apps are programs too.

"Apps are programs too" ... Sounds like a great slogan for an anti-protest sign :)

So, get a laptop and buy this cover for it.


Really, the MacBooks aren't very clunky. I have a 17" Pro and it's very portable.

Apps are programs, too. Very simplistic, retarded programs. That iMovie thing mousepad linked to is the first thing I've ever seen in "App" form that is actually like a complex piece of software.

Of course, I'll admit to not being an App junkie. So maybe I'm missing some that are full-fledged programmed software. Though I note that most "real" software costs between $100 and $4,000, while most Apps run between $0 and $1.

I'm a strong believer in You Get What You Pay For. :D

And maybe that's the crux of it. Who's going to design complex software to run on a cellphone? No market for that. This might change with the iPad, and more complex software like that iMovie might become more common. (I note from the video that you can run iMovie from your iPhone, but pulease.)

The truth is, I don't think there's much market for complex software specific to devices that are portable. Laptops worked like "real computers" because they ran the same operating system as desktops. My problem, so far, with the iPad is that it doesn't. I'm not sure what the logic is in not having this Apple computer product run on the same OS as Macs and thus be able to perform like a Mac - unless it's to sell people on iPads AND Macs.

Or their market research says that most people aren't interested in doing the kinds of intensive work the require intensive computing power on the go.

The reality is, a portable device will NEVER have the same computing power as a non portable device. By definition. They don't have the same OS because the standard Mac OS is designed to take advantage of the vastly larger resources available to it on a desktop machine. Any version of a Mac OS that runs on a tablet/phone would have to be sold as a knackered version of a Mac OS. Much better to give a quality version of a mobile OS than a dumbed-down version of a desktop OS. Sacrifices are made for size. So there will always be more powerful, more featureul, more capable options on a desktop/laptop platform than a truly mobile platform. Who the fvck wants to do detailed Photoshop work on a 7 inch screen anyway? That sounds like torture, no matter how much processing power is behind that screen.

Tablets and phones are for on-the-go tasks. Games to pass time, minor productivity stuff, idle entertainment, and constant connectivity. They are NOT for serious desktop productivity.

What you're saying is like saying, "I'll buy a Vespa when it's a REAL car, that can go highway speeds, protect me in a head on collision, and help me transport the contents of someone's dorm room." It's never going to happen because the platform is not intended for those uses.

If you don't want something small, light, and mobile that does small, light, and mobile things, then fine. But that's simply a mismatch of desired use, not a product failing.

Ok, so I don't own a laptop and never have. Are you saying, then, that laptops have been unable to do what desktops can do? I was under the impression they were merely smaller computers with pretty much the same capabilities as an averagely-powerful desktop computer.

I've known people to do ALL their work on laptops, so the notion that people don't do intensive work on-the-go is belied by the millions of people who operate exclusively on portable computers. I'm sure market research says consumers are not interested in such things - but business people have been so interested for decades, and I'm sure their laptops operate on par with most desktops.

So with that assumption in head, I also think of tablets as the next version of laptops. Perhaps they are not that powerful today, but when might they be?

As a general rule a current model laptap will be underpowered compared to current model desktops.

Yes, people do all their work on laptops. My only machine at work is a laptop (which most of the time is plugged in to a regular keyboard, regular mouse, and a 21" monitor).

Tablet computers will eventually be as computationally powerful as current desktops and laptops (and for the most part are already technically capable of doing almost everything that most people use current desktops and laptops for). But the point is that they are in a form factor where very few people will actually WANT them to do that.

You can get some version of pretty much all the productivity software for iPad. You can edit movies, you can create presentations, you can use spreadsheets, you can edit sound, you can do Photoshop stuff. It's just that generally people don't want to do that for any length of time on a 7" screen.

LoT: Thread Tangent HQ

They are less capable. Not much less anymore, but less.

Going back to the vespa analogy, Desktop::Laptop::Tablet as Full size car::SubCompact car::Scooter. The first leap is one of scale. The second leap is one of substance. There is simply less in common between what people want to do with a scooter vs. a car (small or large) than between what people want to do with a small car vs. a larger car.

I guess I'm just trying to justify a gadget I'd really like to have for no good reason. ;)

Even now, I don't do much iPhoning on the go. If someone else is with me, I have them do the imdb-ing, the mapping, the restaurant-finding, etc. (Part of that is, now that they've invented the iPhone, eye don't have the i's for it. The bigger iPad screen would work so much better for me, but it just won't fit in the pocket of my tight jeans.)

I'm rarely alone and outside of work or home, where I might want to amuse myself or do something useful with a portable computer/internet accesser. I kill maybe 10 minutes a day aggregate on facebook or twitter on the go, and that's the extent of it. The iPhone is perfect for that. I already have one.

But, damn, I want an iPad. Don't have a single use for it, but want it. That, my friends, is marketing success!

You want an 11" MacBook Air. Really, you do. Or is that me?

No, that's not just you. I shouldn't even type this on my home computer (an Alienware, which I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE), but I do indeed lust after a MacBook Air.


There. I've said it.

My pressing tech needs are simple. I need new batteries for my watch.

Right now, I rely on my phone, which is silly.

Every time someone asks me the time, I have to stick my hand in my pants and pull it out to tell them.

I suppose, like many people these days, I could just walk around with it in my hand all the time, staring at it and poking it.

That would be less shocking.

Kevy! Paging Kevy!

He did that on purpose.

I got a new MacBook Air less than two weeks ago. It has put my first generation iPad very nearly out of business. (I have continued to read books, browse and play the occasional game on the iPad, while in my comfy chair at home, but it's the MacBook Air that has been traveling with me every day.)

Oh I agree. Definite quote bating, which is why I referred it to Kevy rather than quoting it myself. He's got a real blind spot for that. He just can't help himself.

I started wearing a wristwatch after a few years of digging my phone out instead, and every time I need to know the time, I simply glance at my wrist. Such amazing technology. Talk about a killer app!

Haha, I started wearing a watch again, too, a few weeks ago. I'm still forgetting to look at it for the time. I have my phone out of my pocket before I realize, d'oh!

I'm not going to stick my hand in his pocket :eek: