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The Official Harry Potter thread (SPOILERS - NO tags)
Okay, the new book is out and if anyone hasn't finished it, too bad. Here is where we discuss book number six and it's predecessors, and where we post our own theories.
I'll go first, with a caveat. I am too tired right now to defend it, but will do so- vigorously- tomorrow, after a decent nights sleep. Dumbledore is not dead, and the thing with Snape was a set-up, a ruse, to throw off the Death Eaters and pave the way for Harry's final battle with Voldie. This is probably obvious to a lot of people, but as I said, I will defend it if necessary once I've had my beauty sleeps. |
I would agree with you WB except...
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That said I think: Spoiler:
Oops! Stupid submit button. Uber major theory ahead re: red herrings: Spoiler:
Thank you and goodnight! |
I think this should be a no-spoiler thread. Like I said, if you haven't read it yet, then avert your eyes.
JK, bless her, is just a bit disingenuous. She has also said that she hasn't finished the LOTR, but come on- does anyone believe that? Her books, while wonderfully imaginitive and engrossing, owe a hell of a lot to Tolkein's. ANd while we're on the subject- Peter Pettigrew as Gollum.....any ideas? I've a few, but I need to check a few things before presenting them. There are many reasons that I think Dumbledore is not dead, and I will post them tomorrow, as I really am wiped out tonight. (I worked all day, then came home, cooked dinner then painted the foyer and hallway, which have vaulted ceilings). I will say that this is not wishful thinking, as initiallly I saw the logic in his death and knew from his statement about Nicholas Flamel that he did not fear it. Remember, Dumbledore has, so far, not been wrong- especially in his estimation of others. Also, he has (repeatedly) told Harry of the redemptive (and superior) power of love, which Voldie could never understand. It applies to more than just Harry........ |
Wow! This is great and what a start. I was just heading to bed when I thought to take a peek back in and found my favorite subject on. However I think I will just make a few blanket statement tonight then off to bed.
First: I thing Dumbledore is dead and will not be coming back as anything more than a painting. Second: I was a little disappointed Harry did not learn more magic from Dumbledore like maybe how magic feels when they were in the cave. Third: R.A.B. is Regulus ???? Black just a guess. My question to you are: What is going to pull Harry back to school. I think something must, could he teach DADA. I think if Hermione becomes Head Girl and Harry needs to find something in the castle he might come back. Was Dumbledore's brother at the funeral? Do you think one of the Horcrux's (a Cup maybe) could be in the orphanage? Although Dumbledore would have checked there closely I suppose. Ok more than I meant to start with, until tomorrow good night. |
I changed the thread title to warn that there be spoilers ahead and no tags used. Then I scrolled REALLY FAST down here to post this. ;)
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Discussion has already been going on here: http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?t=1620
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I give full credit to Tracilicious on the theory that Harry's scar is the last Horcrux.
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Now I have to go and catch up on the other thread to see what other theories have been presented. I certainly wouldn't want to be redundant.;):D |
Okay- I made it through the maze of spoilers- lol. Great posts, and great ideas.:snap:
I think Snape is a bastard, but one with remorse and regret.(2) I also think that he, unlike Voldie, is capable of love, and that is why he is working against his former master. I believe that he was in love with Lily and when he discovered that he had played a role in her death, he was overcome with remorse and and wanted revenge against her murderer. Dumbledore keeps saying that love is the strongest magic of all (1)- even the darkest arts can be defeated by it. If Snape is motivated by such a powerful magic, then he would be able to prevent Voldemort from seeing his true mission. He could have hurt any one of the kids at any time, yet he didn't. Even at the end, he was still 'teaching' Harry, and only lost his temper when called a coward. (3) I think Snape and Dumbledore set up this scenario, to lure out the Death-Eaters and fool Voldemort into thinking the school, and Harry, were without their leader. They couldn't let anyone else into the secret, as Voldemort would easily be able to the truth then. I'll back this up later, but I have a few other things I want to cover first. Lupin and Bill will be released from the curse once Fenrir is dead. So far, unless JK introduces a new character in #7, I believe RAB is Regulus. He disappeared, but no one knows how or where he died, just that he had turned his back on the Dark Lord. I think he may be dead, as the Black house (and Kreacher) probably wouldn't have gone to Harry if Regulus were still living. I also think that Kreacher hid one of the horcrux's- remember in book 5 when he was stashing away all the Black family artifacts? So, all Harry has to do is discover this, and order Kreacher to give it to him. Peter Pettigrew.....He is still in the wings, and Dumbledore indicated that he may end up being of great help to Harry in the end. And what about the new Minister of Magic? Does his status as a vampire play into the story, or is it yet another flipping herring? Okay- back to housepainting.:rolleyes: (1)Pgs 508-512. (2) Pgs 548-550 (3) pGS 602- 605 |
If nobody minds, I'm going to cross-post my theories regarding HBP from MiceChat (saves me time) but I am putting them in spoiler boxes to save space and spare those who have read them already.
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And regarding Snape. Spoiler:
And my little caveat. Spoiler:
So those are my thoughts, anyhow. Whatever happens, I’m loving this series more and more and more.... |
Good points, Jazzman.:snap:
As far as whether or not Dumbledore was up to something, something he says (on page 553) tipped me off to the idea that perhaps all was not as it appears. He tells Harry, when asked about what others might think of him leaving the school, that "I am off to Hogsmeade for a drink" and "I sometimes offer Rosmerta my custom...or I appear to. It is as good a way as any of disguising one's true destination". I also caught what Jazzman pointed out regarding Draco, and the Pheonix connection as well. Thanks for saving me lots of typing, Jazz- my fingers are killing me from painting all day! |
Having started the other thread and talked about this at length (to an embarrassing degree, no less) on LJ, I don't have much energy to discuss the book again here, BUT, Wendybeth!!!!:
"Lupin and Bill will be released from the curse once Fenrir is dead." That didn't even occur to me. How awesome! And I really hope this happens. But it may not. The werewolf condition, afterall, has been primarily used as a metaphor for illness and disability. And there's not usually a magical cure for either, so she may think it a betrayal to suddenly cure Remus and Bill of a sudden toward the end of the book. Pettigrew will probably be important because, I think, he owes a life debt to Harry. |
Also, I have developed the BEST theory of all about the importance of Harry having Lily's eyes:
"Harry, you have your mother's eyes." "Remus, I know. You keep telling me. Everyone keeps telling me. We both have green eyes. Gotcha." "No, I mean, your mother's actual eyes. You have them." "Wha???" "Dumbledore left them in the letter he gave to Petunia, the evening he left you at the Dursley's doorstep. She has kept them safe for you. They are very powerful weapons, which you will need to use inorder to destroy Voldemort." "EW! And, how?" "Throw them at him." "Throw them? Will they, um, blow him up?" "No. They will really gross him out, though. And while he's all frantic and trying to wipe off leaky eyeball juice, you will be given the opportunity to kill him." |
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:eek: Holy crap!! Where did I miss this? ;) I love that I'm reading this in the morning where I can laugh my ass off then show the people at work when I go in! :snap: |
Lol, Eliza!!!
And my apologies for forgetting about the other thread- I didn't mean to step on toes, but I guess this one differs in that there are no spoiler tags to wade through.:D I wonder of Pettigrew's nifty new hand is a horcrux? I can't see him intentionally helping Harry. |
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Well, now that Eliza's here, I guess this really is the official thread. :)
I've seen various people say "How did the Dursleys abuse Dudley?" I thought that much was obvious. They abused him by turning him into a monster. Spoiling a child doesn't mean they're giving him everything he needs - they didn't give him discipline. |
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Sorry about asking for a new Harry Potter thread. I had not gone looking beyond the obvious to see if someone had already started one (I will actually look next time I swear). After reading through this thread, I am not nearly as confident about whether Dumbledore is dead of not. Your ideas are very good, and have given me lot to think about.
I was listening to the book in the car yesterday on the way to work and got to the part where Harry is off for Christmas at the Weasleys. During that chapter Lupin asked Harry how old the potions book was, and when he looks later it was fifty years old (a book from back in Tom Riddles time in school). Does this mean Snape is not the original owner, but maybe the second person to benefit from it (Harry being the third). Could there be two types of writing in the book, that maybe Harry did not notice? Does the age mater? |
I think Dumbledore is really dead, but I also think that doesn't matter in the long run. Look at Nearly Headless Nick and all the various paintings. I think Dumbledore will continue to be an influence.
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Good point about the book- his mother would have been from Voldie's era, so perhaps he inherited her book, but remember the comment about the girlish writing? Hmmmm.... |
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So to believe Dumbledore is alive then you must also believe that Snape was truly in love with Lilly?
I wonder what potions class was like with Lilly and Snape battling for Slughorns affections? I just loved this book and all its layers. I wish she would write a couple of extra books before it ends about finding the Horcruxs |
Hermione told Harry "It might have been a girl. I think the handwriting looks more like a girl's than a boy's", and she was the one who discovered the former student (Snape's mom) with the last name of Prince. I suspect Mom helped Severus in his schooling, and may have annotated the book for him. Wouldn't Snape's handwriting be familiar to the students? I wonder if there are any examples in past volumes.....
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The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am at Rowling for making Ron and Hermione into idiots.
Yeah, I know, they're 16, hormones raging and all, but I really expect better of our heroes in these books. There was that great moment where they look at each other and realize that they really want to go to the party together. Why couldn't they have settled their ancient crap then and there? I think Rowling is hiding all the good stuff to be played out in the final book. I could almost feel her holding back on this one. I know I'm building up obscenely high expectations for the last book but all signs point towards a completely insane climax. |
I just sincerely hope that, after all of this built up anticipation we’re feeling now, the last book doesn't end up with Harry robotically (and moronically) stomping stiffly around and moaning, "Nooooo!!!! Ginnnnn-nnneeeee!!!! Aaaauuuugggghhhhh!!!!!!!!"
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Wouldn't it be funny if the handwriting were Lily's? Maybe she was like Hermione and just excelled in everything. Perhaps after all the tormenting from the James Gang Lily took pity on Severus and taught him spells and potions- it could be he owes his brilliance to her. He certainly wasn't very adept at blocking spells- remember James using the levitating spell on Severus? (That shows that it's likely Snape didn't invent that particular spell). Could also explain his dislike of Hermione's natural abilities- he had to really work for his knowledge.
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But the writing is most likely Snape's or his mum's. I really don't think it's Lily's. Like Hermione said, there was an unkind sense of humor at play, and I don't think Lily was unkind. The book also said that the spell had a way of quickly circulating the school, and it makes sense that an aspect of Snape's complete humiliation in his so called "worst memory" would involve having his own hex/invention turned against him. (Or, possibly, his mother's hex.) It would also further explain why he's so vehement about being on one's guard, and non-verbal spells, etc. I'm guessing that Snape got the best of the Mauraders every bit as much as they got the best of him. I was under the impression that he was pretty good at blocking spells normally, and that particular memory was one of the more terrible exceptions. |
The Potions Master Visits the Mirror of Erised
A stolen moment from PS/SS gives us insight into the heart and mind of Hogwart’s most enigmatic professor.
Oh Merlin, this is bloody brilliant. Look at me. Just look! It is I, the Half-Blood Prince! I've got the Evil Order of Merlin, First Class. There’s a new Dark Lord in town and he’s wearing a tiara – oh, how it sparkles! My hair is clean! Sirius Black is my personal olive de-pitter and bath mat. Harry Potter is lying dead at my feet and Lily Evans is back from the dead and dressed up like Princess Leia in Return of the Jedi. James Potter continues to rot, spinning in his grave. That’s right, Potter. Your wife is mine, mine, mine! My slave girl. My wife girl. My Potions Mistress girl! All the lemon drops have vanished from the globe and Dumbledore is crying. I’ve renamed Hogwarts Dead Eater High. I’m the new Headmaster *and* the new DDAATT (Do Dark Arts All The Time) teacher. My teeth are no longer yellow thanks to North American toothpaste. Ugly is the new pretty and everybody wants my skinny and sallow body. Glorious, glorious mirror! |
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Aside from the last hundred pages of breathless excitement and actual decent writing, the entire book was one big bothersome bore. Laboriously laying down mysteries that then go stubbornly unaddressed through chapter after chapter ... nothing happening other than a review of Voldemort's childhood ... waiting and awaiting and awaiting some more the thrilling climax, but offering the reader scant little till then. Worse, though ... the climax reveals nothing about the mysteries set up in the book for which the reader waded through hundreds of pages for a resolution. I mean, I know this is a series, but I really don't think any of the other books (to my admittedly adled memory) left this much unanswered. Specifically, I think its b.s. to have so much of the subject matter of this book be about what Snape's true loyalties are ... only to mire it even deeper in mystery rather than illuminate it. I think the book was a cheat, and a tease, and worse - boring till the last few chapters. I don't like the idea of a "series." These are novels, released years apart and, though they may add up to a larger story, I believe each should be a satisfying work of art in its own right. I also got the feeling, quite strongly, that Rowling was holding back, holding back, saving everything for a final book that cannot possibly contain the entire freaking story, while simultaneously sacrificing the quality of the present book to purportedly add to the quality of the next. This quote from Jazzman will keenly illustrate the dangers of wait-for-it, wait-for-it, wait-for-it, save it all for last chapter ... only to disappoint. Quote:
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Seems to me, you just turn your pretty head and walk away... Now I'm listening to the James Gang. Quote:
:iSm:'s got some points. The book definitely isn't entertaining enough in it's own right. Same was true of Phoenix IMHO. But I'm ok with the idea of a series. I'd be very surprised if the last book has low points at all. |
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OMG, I can't believe it ... from a woman of such otherwise impecable taste! What a shame.
Of course, I could enjoy going along with Harr, and Ron and Herm as they read the phone book in rounds, but I really was getting a little annoyed with how little was happening in this book - that I knew, per the Potter pattern, was all being saved for the last 50 pages. Those last pages were among the best Potter pages ever written, and of course I loved them. Still, considering the special non-Dursley intro and the thread of evil-Snape vs. trusted-Snape wound all through the book, I really was pissed at more complication on this front rather than even semi-resolution. I don't like cliff-hangers in novels that come out every few years ... and I hate when an artist appears to hold back on the present to attempt a more thrilling potential future. I personally think it's a recipe for artistic failure, but we shall see. |
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I liked the lulls. And I really loved her language in this book, and the lack of ALL CAP HARRY! Her prose was improved and I expected that resolution of the most important elements in the novels wouldn't come until Book 7. I like pining for the resolution. I'd hate to have it all figured out before the end. I also laughed out loud a lot more while reading this book. There were many funny concepts and lines. I was much pleased. Now, leave me be! |
Fine. Go ahead and enjoy the trashy children's literature.
When did it become ok to have the cliffhanger not solved in the following Saturday's matinee serial episode, nor even at the start-up of September's new television season, but frelling years and years from the end of the last chapter? This is a horrible trend, especially for the ADD generation. And the nagging questions and precipice-clinging ending of Book 6 is going to make me impatient during the viewing of Movie 4, as if I am being forced to watch the Potter past in slow motion rather than my much desired Trelawney-forseen future. (BTW, didn't Harry leave Trelawney routed to the spot on his orders, and we never saw her again? I assume she must have been at the funeral, but it wasn't really mentioned. D'ya suppose she could still be in the hallway outside the RofR sipping sherry?) |
I blame the X-files, I think they still have loose ends that have never been tied in that series.
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I finished reading yesterday. I'll leave in depth discussion/speculation to the experts. I've read through each book exactly once and don't know the minutia well enough to discuss much.
I enjoyed it, significantly more than I enjoyed book 4. Of course, I'm a big Empire Strikes Back fan, so it's no surprise that I look at iSm's scathing review and say, "Hell yeah, that's what I like about this one!" Expositional, really pushes the story forward, perhaps not a lot of action (but good action when it's there), and ends on downer. My kind of sequel. I'm not fan of the miscommunicaiton/misunderstanding genre of romance, so the Ron and Hermione thing bugged me. But it's such a common device in all fiction everywhere that I ignore it now. I think this book had a good mixture of things that she gave you enough clues to figure out and things that she gave you enough clues to lead you astray. For instance, I figured out early on that it was Dumbledore that Malfoy was supposed to kill (confirmed when the bottle of wine meant for Dumbledore was poisoned) and that Snape was the Half Blood Prince (who else would be that good at potions...and she was hinting way to strongly for it to be Harry's mom). Conversely, I was expecting Ginny to die (I knew someone was going to die), and I was expecting it to be revealed that Snape had made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore (which presumeably would take precedent over any contradictary Vow he makes afterwards). Of course, based on some theories, that may still be true. One point of contention I had was that during the there were 3, count them, 3 people under the effects of the luck potion outside the Room of Requirement. 3. And Malfoy was able to successfully get past them with no problem. I found that a little odd. The extent of their luck was the killing curses didn't hit them, but we were shown with Harry's experience that they SHOULD have been able to intuitively avoid something like Malfoy's little darkness trick thanks to the potion. (I didn't go through all the spoilers in the other thread, so forgive me, and link me, if this has been discussed). |
It hasn't been discussed. I think it probably just gave priority to not getting killed. Also, they probably took smaller doses, and I think that's has an effect on how much luck you have. I'm not sure. Good point, though. It may also hint that they weren't in as much danger (from Malfoy, for example) as one might suppose.
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I saw that a few days ago. I thought, "Wow, if I'd seen someone with that shirt on, and hadn't read the book yet, I think I might have actually murdered them."
It made me laugh, though. |
Okay, ready for an admission of epic proportions?
I told fvcktard the end of the book, knowing full well he's listening to it on tape. But, I did make sure that the only person who could hear was him. After all, I didn't want to ruin it for anyone else! :evil: |
Hello All, Saw this on the Mugglenet web site,
http://www.mugglenet.com/mugglecast/ |
I'm not reading this thread. I'm just here to say, it's Christmas and they're at the Hovel or the Burrow or, whatever it's called.
Is is possible I figured out who the Half Blood Prince is? I mean, it seems pretty obvious. Too obvious. Otherwise, Lalalalalalalalalalalalalaala. |
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This has got to be one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time. (right after Df's song)
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(Lol! Good one, Mousey Girl!) |
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Then there is this...... Before Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings were made into films....there was this. |
Hmmm...So, Hagrid is actually...Peggoty?
Wonder if Madame Maxime is 'willing'?;) |
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Just my thoughts after the read: If Draco has killed Dumbledore, I believe his "death" would've been permanent. Because Dumbledore spent so much time talking with Draco then begged Snape to kill him seems to indicate that his "death" is of a less permanent sort. I do believe he died, but I don't believe it is permanent at all. The Phoenix in the smoke reference confirmed that for me. He will return from the dead. It's all magic, you know. Snape IS a double agent. The extremity of Harry's active hate for Snape throughout the books gives it away for me. He hated Voldemort and Draco too, but it seems to be such a competative thing with Snape. I think Snape plays the hate card on purpose to keep his "cover". It is just too manipulative. I'm glad Harry is leaving school, but this conclusion was actually more shocking to me then Dumbledor's death. Is he really ready to go out on his own and do what's necessary to exterminate Voldie? I'm glad he got to apperate once by himself in an important and stressful scieniero. Quote:
I'm with Heidi on this part. There's something going on there that is much more than we're seeing. I bet lots more will be revealed here about the Dursley's "powers". As for the other minutea, I could barely remember what happened in the last book at the end let alone minutea. I really should re-read the books before a new one is released so I'm on the same page when it starts out. But, not gonna happen. I put a lot of trust in the fact that Rowlings will replay things to jog our memories - and I was right for much of it. I'm sure as I read more missed discussion my thoughts will be jarred about other things, but this is just what's left in my brain after finishing at 4 am. Good, quick read though. I'm very pleased from a readers' standpoint. |
Oh, Dudders was just reliving the awful experience of having to give up his second bedroom. ;)
JK has firmly stated that Aunt Petunia is non-magical, or at least not a squib, but what about the other Evans'? Is it established or just assumed that Lily was an aberration in an otherwise totally Muggle family? I am heading off to the Lexicon to see what I can see, but I think that the whole Dudley/dementor thing is a non-issue. They state during the hearing that Muggles can sense dementors, and be affected by them- look at the dementor induced miasma that is afflicting the Muggle world in book six. He was almost lip-locked (or snogged-lol) by the dementor- of course he would be uncomfortable. (Edit) Okay- checked the Lexicon, and nowhere does it state that they are one or the other, just that they were "delighted to have a witch in the family".. Could be one is a Muggle, and the other magical- otherwise, why the 'delight'? Remember when Neville was thought to be a squib, and how ecstatic his family was when he started showing magical abilities? I wonder if a mixed parent family can have a non-magical member who is just that- not a squib, like Filch. JK emphatically states that Petunia is not a squib, so ....(sigh) Off to the Lexicon again.......:rolleyes: |
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