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Does this give you a reason to like Cheney?
Just wondering if this will make you libs like Cheney. Today he shot a lawyer.
Accidentally. On a hunting trip. With a shotgun. The guy will be just fine. (apologies to ISM) |
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Lol! Too bad he....oh, never mind. Too obvious, too easy.;)
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It is a suprisingly common occurence. Both of my grandfathers had been shot while bird hunting as young men.
That said, how much of a pain in the ass do you think it is to get the privilege of walking through the woods with the president or vice president while carrying a loaded gun? |
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Peppered? The man's not a roast for crying out loud. :D Leno, Letterman and Stewart are going to have a field day with this one, I think. |
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Hmm, are you saying it's a good thing he shot a lawyer?
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Mrs. Quail: You're home late.
Mr. Quail: I know, I'm sorry. Mrs. Quail: You're out of breath! Mr. Quail: I know. I just got back from the Armstrong place with the guys. Mrs. Quail: The Armstrong place? How many times have I warned you and your buddies not to hang out there? Mr. Quail: I know. You're right. But you'll never guess what happened to us today... Mrs. Quail: This better be good. Mr. Quail: (laughs) It is, Marilyn. It is! :D |
Just a day in the life of another responsible gun owner. ;)
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It could have been worse, I suppose. Hasn't he gone hunting with Justice Scalia in the past?
Of couse, "worse" is entirely subjective. :) |
I think this was practice for when he invites Breyer along.
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I'm thinking he might have a hard time getting anyone to with him in the future.
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I don't know about that....have you read many of Breyer's opinions?
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Hmm, it would appear that Mr Cheney is far more dangerous than this one episode would suggest.
Also funny is the fact that during the 2004 election campaign, there were a number of conservatives and gun rights activists who were quick to comment on a photo that questioned Kerry's ability to safely handle a shotgun. |
I just thought of something.
Maybe it's a good thing Cheney got out of going to Vietnam 5 times. Imagine the number of US soliders he would have shot if he went. :D |
Interestingly, it looks like this really isn't Cheney's fault. No one, including the victim, is disputing how this happened.
The vic left the hunting party. When you return to a hunting party, you are supposed to let everyone know you have returned. He did not. He was not in line of sight, and in fact was flanking Cheney. When the dogs flushed out the quail and they started flying, Cheney followed them along their flight route, which went directly toward the vic. |
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I swear. Nothing is this Administration's fault. It is Cheney's fault. |
Guns don't shoot people. People shoot people. Unless you get shot by the vice president, then no one shot you.
Oy. Cheney can't even apologize for the accident. Wouldn't want the vp on record for apologizing to someone. Cheney should have had an idea of where everyone was before he shot. You don't shoot unless everyone is behind you. He broke that rule. Blame the victim. What the heck is that all about? |
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Do you hunt? Do you know about hunting safety? Do you know about bird hunting?
Cheney pulled the trigger, no doubt. "Nothing is this administration's fault"? How does the administration come into this? This is a hunting accident. |
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So....it was an accident, no one disputes it was an accident, no one disputes the circumstances of the accident, no one (in the hunting party) disputes the man returning without announcing it, but because it took 18-24 hours for the story to be released, there must be a cover up? |
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This is just another example, like we really need one, of the institutional arrogance typical of the entire Bush Administration. Cheney did not have a hunting licence, Cheney refused to meet with local police investigating a shooting, Cheney withheld the information on this as long as possible. This is only a story because of the delay. If Cheney had cooperated with Police and issued a statement right off the bat apologizing and sending the guy his best wishes for a speedy recovery then this would have been the non-story it should have been but Cheney had to play by his rules where truth and information are what HE thinks they should be. |
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Cheney goes shooting without a clear target and someone gets hurt. Then we have the coverup, and failing that we start blaming the victim. blah blah blah blah |
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In the time it took to report the incident, the Administration got its hands on this story. That is why I said and still say that this Administration has zero accountability.
Cheney fired the gun. He should have known that everyone in his party was not in danger before he shot the gun. He didn't know where everyone was. He held the gun, he's accountable. And, of course everyone is saying it's an accident. You can't have one GOP supporter bashing the GOP vp, can you? They all stick together... right down to taking a bullet for someone (even if the person that shot you is the high powered person you're protecting). Cheney should have sucked it up and apologized and taken total blame for the incident. He should have been bigger than that. Be a man, Dick. Now it's going to be up to the media to lay the blame on him. Then he's going to take the victim stance... or release another video of a bin Laden or that poor hostage to take our minds off of it. I don't think anyone can honestly believe that any member of the Bush Administration is on the level. Anyone who does is fooling himself/herself. |
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Wait! As a GOP member, was I just critical of a GOP vp? May it never be! Oh, my eyes have been opened and I see the error of my ways in support of any republican!:rolleyes: |
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But wait! Cheney did know about all members of the hunting party.....except the one that came back unannounced. Sigh. The hunting safety you are referring to is regarding ground based game. You never fire a rifle or arrow at a land based target without knowing what was behind it. This is not possible when following the flight path of birds. |
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Okay, this Administration is also proving to us that they are incapable of doing two things at once. If I couldn't do two things at once, I'd be fired from my job. McClellan is telling us that it took 24 hours for us to hear about this because they were attending to Whittington's wounds. So, Cheney and his entire staff were in the waiting room? No one could have said, 'Hmm, maybe we should send out a press release on this...' Same thing with Katrina. 'Now is not the time for blame. We must fix this problem. We can't investigate what went wrong and fix New Orleans at the same time. That's too hard. You're all about blame and we're all about fix... a fix that came too late, but we're all about fix.' :rolleyes: |
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Here's my biggest issue with thinking this is any type of a cover up - what is being covered up? The lack of purchasing the proper credentials? No one disputes what happened. I don't get it. |
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The real issue here is the turtle approach that was taken. The "I'm above the law" attitude that infects this administration. |
What am I spinning?
I said Cheney pulled the trigger. I am critical that he didn't follow the law and purchase a license. In terms of minutia, I'm not the one who originally posted about not getting the license. I am talking about the story in terms of what has been reported as far as what happened, which is not in dispute. I have asked about what could possibly be covered up, as I don't see what they would want to cover up, and if it is a cover up, it is the world shortest and most stupid cover up. All gun shot woulds must be reported to police. I really don't know what I am spinning. |
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I'm a powerful man, I don't need no hunting licence I'm a powerful man, I don't need to cooperate with local law enforment I'm a powerful man, I don't need to justify my actions, or even mention them I'm a powerful man, don't you question my actions. I'm a powerful man, the laws of the United States are for you, not for me. |
While I disagree with your sentiment, I can at least understand it now.
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Edit: I sat on my post too long. I just read what Moonliner wrote... what he said. :) |
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Yes, "peppered" is a commmon hunting term. Shutguns don't fire a bullet, they fire a cluster of little balls ("shot"). When something is hit with several of those shot, you say it was "peppered".
Sorry guys, but I find this to be a big non-story. Dude made a mistake. Unless it's something that concerns his performance as vp, I don't consider him as having an obligation to go running to the media to say he shot his friend. While I fully understand why it is newsworthy once it became public, I don't consider the delay indicative of anything other than the fact that he made a horrible mistake, nearly killed a friend, and was dealing with the reprocussions of that privately. It's no more his reponsibility to inform us of that than it was Clinton's to inform us of his cigar appreciation. |
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So that's 2 people who's hunting experience you've questioned so far. What's your experience? Quote:
I don't know why you're so upset with me anyway. My first comment on this was "I'm not one to want to see Cheney strung up for this". And I don't. This was clearly an accident. But I do realize where the responsibility lies, whether you do or not. |
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I prefer a .45 to a .38. That's my gun of choice if I were to ever own a handgun. Ralphie's father wants to buy me one really badly but Ralphie and his mom are against the idea. Oh well. My dad was a police officer for 33 years or so. He taught me how. I also learned about shooting rifles in the Boy Scouts. I was the best shot in my troop. I won 5 dollars in a contest. The other scouts were peeved to have lost to a Tenderfoot. Ha ha. See, you learn new stuff everyday. :) Anyway, all I'm asking is does the media say a man stormed a 7-11 and peppered the cashier with his shotgun? I think not. |
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Scrooge and GC - I am not questioning your knowledge of firearms or hunting, in terms of saying that you don't know what you are talking about. i am just curious as to what your knowledge is.
I go dove hunting with my father and brother in laws a few times a year. Been on elk hunts and javelina hunts, though only as a spotter, not a hunter. I'm not upset with anyone. I just really, truly, honestly, do not see what the big deal is in a 24 hour delay of release of this info to the press. |
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 Monster. |
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When a politician shoots someone and that person is sent to intensive care because of gunshot wounds, most definitely yes. Against the law, no. He was cleared. But it is of great interest to me. |
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Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha |
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Sorry, but this has been getting under my skin. I'm as much of a critic of the administration as anyone, but harping on this kind of non-story is bordering (perhaps already across the border mowing lawns) on petty. |
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Cheney's inability to take responsibility for his actions, him being incapable of apologizing and him blaming his staffer for the stamp snafu speak volumes about the man's character. Not that he had much credibility to begin with with me. |
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Look, like I said several times, I understand why it's a story. I can even understand that maybe it would have been a bit more responsible for him to say something. But I just can't bring myself to think it's a big deal. Unless he was paying people off to keep quiet about it, I don't care. |
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----------- By Cheney not saying anything, we're left to wonder. We're left to fill in the blanks. To many, including me, this is being seen as another example of people in this Administration thinking they're above the law and need not explain anything. Wrong. There are tons of people who feel that this event is not a non-issue. 2,885 news stories on this one incident on Google News. That's a lot. |
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Ever seen a full grown one - butt ugly suckers. Almost worse than cats. |
I am actually not bothered by the missing stamp or the initial lack of reporting.
Perhaps the staffers are lying through their hoo-hoos, but I've been in too many situations myself where I've called to find out what was needed for some activity, trusted the word of the employee, and then discovered that oh, I don't have this other thing that they recently decided to require and don't have their employees who answer the "call for information" phone tell people about. As for lack of reporting - I don't particularly care. There are so many actual newsworthy happenings that I'd rather spend my brain power pondering. I am a little disappointed. I'm disappointed anytime a public figure chooses silence instead of teaching. This is a perfect teaching opportunity. In my fantasy world, the VP would make a public statement about how this incident demonstrates how important safety is when hunting, that even experienced hunters can make mistakes, and maybe even what he or the unintentional target will do differently next time. Of course he's not required to do that. He's not even obligated to do that. But if he had, I would have been impressed. Oh, and no, I've never been hunting. I did do some target practice with a bow and arrow and was quite good at it, but that was a long time ago. |
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Maybe there are more news outlets than actual news stories. Seems like everything is news now. Seems like all of our news places have become tabloids. But I disagree with people out there when they say the media is liberal. That's hooey. The media is all about what's popular to criticize... :shrug: |
Ya know, I also feel that the Danish cartoons were a non-story, but a whole lot of Muslim rioters felt differently ... and made it a story.
This is a news story if enough people think it is. Seems like enough people do. I'm one of them. Moving this thread to the 'Grind. |
It's a story, whether the White House thinks so or not. The excuses given for not reporting it, and then deferring to the owner of the ranch, are about the lamest I've seen in a long time. I can't figure out if it's simply arrogance on the VP's part (I don't have to tell anyone!) or if they were just trying to figure out a way to play it down, but I am amused by imagining possible scenarios for the latter. I am sure it was just a dumb accident, and in a way it humanizes Cheney to me, but to try and say it's not a story is erroneous. He's the VP, for God's sake! Of course people are going to want to read about it, but their lapse in reporting has made it much more of a story than it would have been. It could have been downplayed as a Gerald FOrd moment, but now conspiracy theorists will have a field day. I am also amused by the righteous indignation of the Press Corps and some of their comments to McClellan- they are genuinly indignant about the perceived lapse of protocol, and you can really see the ego's coming out as well.:rolleyes:
Darn good thing Cheney travels with a medical team, eh? Edited to add: More news on the VP's shooting vistim. |
I never said it's not a story. In fact, I said several times that I undertand why it's a story. It's the delay that I think is a non-story.
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I get that, GD- it's the White House that's playing the non-story angle.
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I'm not impressed with how it was handled but I'm not ready to buy into any conspiracy theory. I do think that time was taken to try to figure out the best way to minimize the story and that this time lapse actually had the opposite effect. For one thing, the reasons that the White House gave for delaying the release of the information was that their first concern was that the man who was shot was getting the proper medical attention. Considering the fact that there was an ambulance and medical team on site, I'm not sure how I see that this was a concern for 24 hours. Hell, within a few hours, the guy was resting in a hospital bed. Still, I view this incident as nothing more than an accident, one that Cheney and the man he shot are probably both responsible for. Yes, the man should have announced himself but Cheney also should have been more aware that there was someone in his party that was unaccounted for. Still, it was an accident that I'm sure Cheney does feel a great deal of remorse for.
I agree with Prudence that this would have been a great opportunity to educate people on the importance of gun safety. Instead, nobody is saying a word. That's their perogative but I think there could have been some positive to come out of a situation like this and the opportunity was missed. Incidentally, the man Cheney shot had a heart attack today. I would imagine that this story isn't going away for a while. |
Always the cover-up. When will they learn?
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Heh heh...As expected, Jon Stewart had some fun with this. He was one happy boy: #2 with a bullet.
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Possible Excuses for Cheney to Use as to Why This Occured:
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Spoiler:
One of the funniest Daily Shows ever. :D |
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- your trusty moderator |
Where in the hell did I put it?
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In the Scalia thread.
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What in the hell was I doing there?
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Put the wine on the table and back away, NA.
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Letterman's Top Ten Dick Cheney Excuses
10. Heart palpitation caused trigger finger to spasm 9. Wanted to get the Iraq mess of the front page 8. Not enough Jim Beam 7. Trying to stop the spread of bird flu 6. I love to shoot people 5. Guy was making cracks about my lesbian daughter 4. I thought the guy was trying to go 'gay cowboy' on me 3. Excuse? I hit him didn't I? 2. Until Democrats approve Medicare reform, we have to make some tough choices for the elderly 1. Made bet with Gretzgy's wife |
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It's a good thing that that heart attack didn't kill him, or it would have been crime, since the attack was caused by the birdshot in his heart. I do think that the VP has responsibility to report things as significant as this, if just as a pre-emptive strike against the media reaction to follow. I do find it questionable that they prolonged releasing the news. I do find his callous refusal to publicly apologize a little distasteful. If you're a public figure, your private birdshot accidents aren't "private." |
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In fairness, that definition says "unlawful killing." The "without express or implied malice" part is to distinguish it from other unlawful killings, like the various degrees of murder. The precise definitions vary between jurisdictions, but accidents are usually "unlawful." At best you'd get negligent homicide, and given the implied risk of being in a hunting party in the first place, that would have to be a mighty shocking accident.
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As I read a more detailed definition, one thing does stick out...
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That, and he owns just about anyone who is anyone in DC. Like Jon says, don't mess with Dick- he'll shoot ya in the face!
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This is the current headline on CNN.com right now: Quote:
This was the headline before I went to bed at 10:30pm est: Quote:
And I don't think they are coincidences. The media and the Bush Administration are corrupt. |
Are you suggesting that CNN is in Bush's corner?
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To me, that's comparable to saying that Fox News supports Clinton, Kerry, Gore and democrats in general, because Alan Colmes in on the network.
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There's also CNN's Novak (who's now in limbo). Plame, anyone? CNN - soft on Bush, soft on the lead up to the Iraq war, soft on post-9/11 investigations... |
I guess it's all a matter of opinion and perspective. I view it in a slightly different fashion.
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I remind you that the Clinton Administrations had more investigations into it than any other administration in American history. Now that's a "culture of corruption". |
The portrayal of the incident is one of the things that bugs me the most, I think.
For example, this is how it sounds like in the media: 'Vice President Cheney inadvertently peppered close friend Whittington with hunting device in quail frolic. Whittington is in good spirits and, of course, is to blame for the mishap. Whittington had minor heart shenanigans the other day, but is expected to recover fully. He's quite honored to have souvenirs of the hunting outing and will keep them close to his heart for the rest of his life." Now, this is how it would be if this were anyone else in another country or another party for that matter: "Politician shoots friend in the face with shot gun. Politician blames victim, Whittington, for incident. Whittington also suffered a heart attack when shot piece travelled through his body and came close to his heart. Politician is not commenting on the incident. The politician and party were hunting hand raised wingless quails released at the beginning of hunting session when the accident occurred." ;) |
In the interests of deferring to hunters with more experience than I -
http://washingtontimes.com/national/...1127-7044r.htm But there are a couple of things theat I find to be absolutely hilarious (not in the article above). I came across an AP story comparing the Cheney incident to the duel between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr. What? I though that was funny. Also, there is a conspiracy theorist out there who wrote some article - and to be upfront, I haven't read it, I heard about it on a local radio station - that this was no accident. It was a not-so-subtle message to Scooter Libby that he will be killed if he testifies to anything Cheney doesn't like in the Plame case. Got a good laugh out of that, too. |
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And, I'd love to hear an argument from Bush defenders that has nothing to do with the Clintons. I don't think they can. Does this mean that if a Dem gets in next that we can blame Bush for everything for 4-8 years? Oh goody! :) |
The thing that bothers me is that a non-political incident seems to be highly politicized by those who simply don't like Cheney, or Republicans in general.
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As far as bias in the media, this came out not too long ago, from UCLA - http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6664 |
The bias is definately there. That's part of why I listen to the Laura Ingraham Show. She brings the media bias to light all the time. And you can't tell me that papers like The New York Times, Washington Post, Star Tribune, etc. don't pander to the left.
I try to read as many different articles I can about the same subject to gain a greater understanding. But some of these so-called reporters aren't interested in anything other than their own opinions. For instance, how come they don't talk to our brave men and women who are in Iraq and actually fighting and see what's going on? Could these people step out of their elite bubbles for even one moment? Very few of them have gone to visit the men and women who keep them free and making money. It's enough to drive me up the wall. |
MediaMatters.com 's take on the UCLA study
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"Liberal media bias" is a nice clever way that the right came up with to be able to discount any bit of bad news that gets reported. It's really pretty ingenious. Quote:
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Hahahahahaha!!!!!!! Seriously dude, you don't really, right? Right? |
Of course there are examples of left leaning and right leaning. Our perspective of which way it goes in the overall is relative to where we are on the political spectrum as well. We could get into anecdote by anecdote and never run out of examples supporting our position.
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I don't listen to Laura for unbiased opinion! But I do listen to her uncover the media bias.
A few weeks ago she said something similar to herself when talking about CBS News, and how ironic that organizations such as CBS -- which are supposedly the "gold standard" news reporting -- are completely biased. She then pointed out that she's not unbiased and is not trying to pass her show off that way, but that organizations which market themselves as being unbiased should truly act that way. |
Chris Rock once referred to Laura I. as "one cold bitch"- I think he was pretty right with his analysis.
As for Clinton and investigations, might I remind you that Kenneth Star, paragon of legal virtue and darling of the Republicans, was recently nailed for submitting fabricated letters to the court while appealing for clemency for a client? |
Are we talking about the same Laura I.?
I've heard her be very harsh on people -- in particular I remember this interview with a member of Code Pink. By the time Ingraham was done with her, the woman was absolutely sputtering and couldn't say anything intelligible because Laura defeated every single one of the woman's lame arguments and actually got the woman to contradict herself. Laura is harsh and cold if she wants to be. But she was still respectful during the entire interview. She has a lot of tact. But to say that's how she is in general, give me a break! I listen to her every morning, and she is a warm, witty, intelligent, and caring woman. But I suppose if you get on her bad side and she beats you in a debate you may have that view of her. It's called being a sore loser. Last week she visited Iraq. I recommend everyone read her Iraq Journal. |
It was Comedy Central's Indecision/Politically Incorrect show, and Chris was 'reporting' from the floor of the Republican Convention. It was one of the few times I've ever seen her shut her mouth for more than two seconds.
(Chris was just commenting on her rant against liberals, welfare and such- not engaged in a conversation with her). |
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Care to compare that to the investigations of Scooter, Cheney, Delay, Frist, Abramoff, Cunningham, and a whole bunch of others? Culture of corruption indeed. |
I'll take on the culture of corruption. I just get in trouble for bringing up such things from past administrations. I could post some very interesting figures on the number of Clinton associates and business partners who were indicted and or convicted. I could post links about Reno and Espy and Cisneros and Gore....well, you get the idea.
MBC, you say the investigations during the Clinton adminstration led to nowhere, but then point to investigations in this adminstration that have led to...well....nowhere, and in fact included Abramoff in the list, who was involved with both parties. So...if you want I can post the numbers of indictments and convictions and a historical perspective of other administrations and special investigations. |
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So a guilty plea is nowhere?
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Yes, and this IS the best of all possible worlds, Dr. Pangloss. :rolleyes: |
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But what's this? Could Whittington and/or the veep have been drunk?
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This just in to GCNN ;) :
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There you go! That's the spin. "I was so horrified by what happened I just couldn't bring myself to talk about it publicly."
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I don't know if you can call it being a man about it if you must be forced by public outrage to be a man about it.
(and yeah, there's not a whole lot that Cheney could ever do in his lifetime to satisfy me. but apologizing before the vast media and public outcry about the lack of an apology might have had a chance) |
For one cold bitch- she has approval ratings in the 80's
Not bad for a cold bitch - puh-lease. |
he had a beer at lunch.
i blame the beer company. |
I woke up this morning to my alarm clock that plays the radio. The song that was playing was 'Cheney's Got a Gun' to the tune of Aerosmith's 'Janie's Got a Gun'. The person singing sounded a lot like Tyler. Funny, funny stuff.
I'm sure it's on the internet somewhere. |
Well done song parodies are great regardless of who they are making fun of. I heard it and thought it was pretty funny.
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That would be Spike on vocals. Bob Rivers and co. are a local institution.
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