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Howl's Moving Castle
If you missed it in the theater, the wonderful addition to the Ghibli stable will be released on DVD on March 7th according to Amazon.
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...along with "My Neighbor Totoro" (finally!) and "Whisper of the Heart". If you see Chernabog, ask him about Whisper. Better yet, ask him to sing the theme song...
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I can live without Totoro but I'm excited about the others.
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I love me some Totoro. |
It was certainly beautiful, though I prefer the book's storyline. Cannot wait to watch it again.
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Totoro just doesn't do it for me. My favorite Miyazaki (as much as I love Howl's Moving Castle and Spirited Away) is still Porco Rosso.
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I have Howl's on my N'flix save queue already. I wanted to see it in theaters, but it was barely in release. It made 6.2 million in the U.S. .... and, ready? .... 229.4 million worldwide.
Maybe if it was in theaters for longer than a week, people would have had a chance to throw money at it. Stupid Americans! |
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I didn't see it in the theaters because as far as I could tell, it was only being shown dubbed near me (you'd think near UCI they'd subtitle it...but no).
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Yeah, I believe that it was only released in a dubbed version. For Spirited Away they had both subtitled and dubbed prints and let theaters choose which they wanted. If I recall correctly only a dozen theaters or so opted for the subtitled prints so that is probably why they just skipped that this time around (making prints is expensive).
So my press screening for Howl's Moving Castle was in San Francisco's Japantown and still shown dubbed. At least Disney and Lasseter put a lot of time and effort into making quality dubs. |
It was shown in the US subbed - although on a very limited basis. Call me crazy, but dubbed animation doesn't bother me nearly as much as dubbed live action - probably because the "actors" are really the animators. This is especially true of the Ghibli films in the hands of Lassetter.
Although Billy Crystal did annoy me at first. |
While I'm sure the Ghibli/Lassetter films offer some of the best dubbing and wouldn't be horribly offensive, I simply prefer hearing the original language. There's just a certain quality to language that, no matter how good the translation, can never quite be captured in a dub. "Isn't that cuuuute!" just does not carry the same emotional quality as, "Kawaiiiiiiii!!!!"
I can understand that having to read subtitles can be distracting, but I've spent many many years watching anime this way and it's completely second nature. So I'll happily wait for the DVD so I can hear the original voice acting. |
Oh, I agree and while dubbed animation doesn't bother me as much as live action I prefer subtitled whenever possible. Especially with Japanese because then Lani can point out how the subtitling is not quite getting it correct (though with the Miyazaki films it has usually been a change to make something more comprehensible to non-Japanese audiences since they don't know automatically why Japanese raccoons have giant testicles).
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Also, it's an English story, and hearing it in the original Japanese may have felt disjointed. Not bad, just strange. |
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I too am less thrown off by dubbed animation than live action, but I'll still choose subtitled over dubbed every time. |
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Sometimes that crap doesn't bother me at all of course. But it kills me that Hollywood makes movies that take place in French, and for some reason use an all British cast, as if that somehow makes up for the French characters not actually being or speaking French. Totally amuses me. |
Not only doesn't dubbing not bother me as much in animation, Howl's is another work that takes place in Old Europe - where I find the Japanese language to be incredibly distracting.
Not only that, but who's there (besides Lani) to verify that the subtitles are any more a correct translation than the dubbed language??? |
No love for 'Kiki's Delivery Service'?
:D |
Some love for it. I prefer Kiki's Delivery Service to My Neighbor Totoro but it is amusing to me (and by amusing I mean slightly annoying) that the two Miyazaki titles I'd put at the bottom of my list are the two most successful in the United States.
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I already have Totoro on dvd. It's a Fox Films release that I got for $4 at Wal-Mart a few years ago. I love Totoro and Kiki. My favorite so far is Nausicaa. I'm excited for Howl.
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Was Miyazaki also 'Princess Mononoke'?
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I think it was Miyazaki. It was definitely Ghibli.
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Yes, Princess Mononoke is Miyazaki.
Since I'm talking anyway, here is my ranking (how quantitative) of the Miyazaki films I've seen, from best to less best: Porco Rosso Spirited Away Howl's Moving Castle Princess Mononoke The Castle of Cagliostro Nausicaä of the Valley of the Winds Laputa: Castle in the Sky Kiki's Delivery Service My Neighbor Totoro |
I loved Porco Rosso too. So funny. I also really loved the movie with the racoons that changed into things. Not sure if it was Ghibli though.
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Yeah, it is Ghibli. Pom Poko is from Studio Ghibli's other leader Isao Takahata (and equally deserving of American respect but hasn't quite had it to the degree of Miyazaki).
Pom Poko is a movie that is entertaining for American audiences but you really need a Japanese person by your side explaining the mythology and folklore in the movie. Someone who knows, just upon hearing that it about racoons, that the racoons will be shapeshifters (as well as any foxes that might be in the movie). Lani was invaluable for this; for example, she was able to sing along to the song about their giant golden testicles. |
They aren't exactly racoons though are they? The testicles were hilarious. I giggled like an elementary school kid through the whole movie.
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No, they're not really raccoons, though that is how the movie translates it since the actual animal is unfamiliar to Americans for the most part.
The actual animal is a tanuki, a canine species that looks like a cross between a badger and a raccoon. They really do have large testicles and the anology with raccoons is pretty good because the tanuki have formed a similar tolerance for surviving in human inhabited areas. Here's a picture (of the animal, not the testicals):  What is funny is that the name of the movie Pom Poko is an onomatopoeia (Japanese is full of them) for the sound of the animals using their testicals (or rotund stomachs in less lowbrow versions) as drums. These are also the statues you see near the door of many Japanese restaurants. |
As drums! What kinky beasts! (where can I find me some?)
GD: As far as original or locale-appropriate languages go ... a few odd points: 1) Shakespeare is ok in English no matter where the "film" takes place, because the film cannot escape its source theatricality and, well, it's Shakespeareian uber-alis that trumps all common sense. 2) Accents do wonders. If a movie takes place in Italy, I am fine with the suspension-of-disbelief method of using an Italian accent to speak in English. It's silly, but it works for me. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think Japanese can be spoken in a foreign accent. 3) Through long cinematic custom, French accents are not necessary ... as British accents have come to be synonymous with French. It's a movie weirdity that I love and gleefullly ascribe to. I'm not aware of a similar convention existing for any other two languages. Certainly not Japanese. I will watch Howl's in both English and the native Japanese. But I'm willing to bet I'll enjoy the English version better. It doen't hurt that they tend to get real actors to dub the Miyazaki films. |
 Did somebody mention raccoons? :) |
It's mesmerizing.
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I'm a huge fan of Miyazaki, but 'Howl' kind of left me dry. I watched it the other night. I love love the animation, but the story was dull to me.
Add me to the list of people that liked Porco Rosso. Here's how I'd rank the films: The Castle of Cagliostro Porco Rosso Spirited Away Princess Mononoke Nausicaä of the Valley of the Winds Howl's Moving Castle My Neighbor Totoro Laputa: Castle in the Sky Kiki's Delivery Service I love the reoccuring themes of metamorphosis (man to dragon, man to flying bird thingy etc), a female main character and how some bad people have it in them to change their ways. Good stuff. :) |
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:confused: :D |
No, it is definitely a tanuki (which makes raccoon closer to correct than a wolf).
The images are from a series of commercials for a Japanese construction firm Anabukin. You can see the full commercial here (QuickTime movie). The big bad wolf does make an appearance in the commercial. Now, why do the rabbit, bear, wolf, and buck all have very large breasts? According to Lani, the line in that part of the song in the commercial is about being very proud and the Japanese idiom for being very proud is literally something like "makes your chest big" and they are making a very literal joke out of this. |
Well, I've finally seen Howl's Moving Castle. I was meh about it at first, but it's grown and grown on me.
I've never actually seen it all in one sitting. I've managed to see bits and pieces of the movie over a span of many nights, and I've probably seen the complete film - in differing bits and pieces - a total of six times. Was it Alex who said it was mesmerizing? I think it is absolutely hynotizing. It puts me out cold, and I can never manage to watch the whole thing. I find this effect very intriguing. I think it puts you into an altered state quite by design. The story is almost convoluted. I think some of the war stuff is too heavy-handed, and I find Howl's character too simplistic. That said, however, I think the movie is fascinating. It's weird and beautiful and unpredictable. As I suspected, I prefer the dubbed English on this one. It takes place in a mythical western society where I find the Japanese distracting. I think the English vocal talents are appropriate. Christian Bale is perhaps a little too sexy as Howl, at least as compared with the Japanese version (though perhaps that adolescent boy voice is tres alluring in Nippon). Billy Crystal is a tad "been-there" as the fire demon, but his Japanese counterpart is just nails-on-chalkboard annoying to my Western ears. Jean Simmons is great as old Sophie, with Lauren Bacall perfect as the Witch of the Wastes. This is the kind of movie that I'd love to watch on acid. Who's got some? |
We saw it a couple weeks ago. Visually...absolutely stunning. Better than Spirited, imo. I was kinda unfulfilled by the story. I mean, I can dig an ambiguous, free-association type story, but it started out pretty linear and concrete and just kinda unraveled at the end. Like I said, unfulfilling.
We checked out the dubbed version aferwards...as I expected, meh. Some were better than others, and while Billy far from sank to "Phil Hartman in Kiki's Delivery Service" lows, he was paled in comparrison to the Japanese voice, but overall I once again confirmed my preference for the original language. |
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I LOVED Phil Hartman as Gigi. What is wrong with you people? He was hilarious! |
I just love Gigi. Hartman or the original - GIRL - voice....it doesn't seem to matter.
I need to buy Howl's and see it again. |
Heheh, the movie only got interesting to me once it "unraveled." It didn't much interest me as a linear tale, and I'm glad that was only used as a technique to draw you in. From there, it unfolded like a drug trip ... and I guess that's why I'm developing such an affinity for it.
Calsifa's voice bugs me in both English and Japanese, but I preferred all the other English voices to their Nipponese counterparts. Also, I simply can't be drawn as deeply into a story where I must read the dialogue instead of naturally hearing it. It just does not have the same dramatic impact for me. I'm glad that dubbing works for me in animation ... because it's essentially being dubbed no matter what. (In many of today's live action films, there's so much ADR and looping that they, too, are practically dubbed no matter what. But the created mouth movements of animation are so much more easily matched with a different language, imo.) |
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Must.obtain.psychedelic.drugs.before.mail.arrives. :p |
And for my third post in a row in a thread that no one's reading anyway, I will reveal that I just noticed Alex's review of "mesmerizing" was in reference to gigantoid racoon testicles and not Howl's Moving Castle.
:iSm: |
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Well, thanks for that handy link. I think I actually will read the book, since you made it so easy for me to order - - and since Ms. 1812 recommended the literary storyline as her preference (where in heck has she been anyway? I miss her, sniffle, sniff).
I hope the book is translated, because I won't be able to read the original Japanese. |
Well, now I'm nervous. iSm may hate 'Castle of Cagliostro'. I may be berated and abused by him for liking it. It could be as bad as the 'The Notebook' review fracas. :D
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:D |
I have one DVD player that won't turn the subtitles off, so I watched Howl's in English with the subtitles ... and it turns out either the English translation is waaaaay off or the subtitles aren't even accurate to the Japanese.
Unless it was an important plot point, not one single line of the English dialogue was the same as the subtitles. As an example, where a subtitle might read, "Sophie, don't stay here by yourself" ... the spoken English would be, "Sophie, come out and have a good time with us." It was bizarre. I'd like to put the subtitles to the "Lani" test of Japanese accuracy. Understandably, much of the English script was modified from the original so that the mouth movements would match. But the subtitles generally had a more stilted, less expressive form of English ... and I'm wondering what the Japanese dialogue really is. |
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The subtitles are translation of the Japanese. The English dub is the change in language necessary to match mouth movements and create subtle changes in story that make comprehension easier for non-Japanese people (a Japanese idiom, for example, will probably be literally translated in the subtitles while converted to an English equivelant for the dub).
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Wasn't it in the 'Spirited Away' English dub version where they replaced a line from the witch with "Paper cut." but what she actually said in Japanese was different?
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Sorry, GD, but that's another reason I like the English better. With no offense to the Japanese (going on Alex's assertion that the subtitles are accurate), the "original" language has a sort of See Dick Run quality of unexpressiveness that I find, well, boring.
I'm really glad I had my subtitle "malfuction" - because I frankly find the English translation to be better and more entertaining. And without any offense meant to whoever does casting for Studio Ghibli, I have my suspicions that the top-name American actors are actually giving better peformances than the original cast. (Though Pete Doctor admitted in one of the bonus features that the Howl character was sexed up a bit because it was felt the effiminate/androgenous character of the Japanese version would not translate well to American audiences.) |
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Heheh, I think I'll watch Spirited Away in English with the subtitles on to discover all the fun translation changes! |
I miss Anne Bancroft. :(
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The subtitles still aren't 100% accurate translations but they are mostly very close and certainly much closer than the English dubs. When we saw Spirited Away in the theater it was with subtitles and there were a few parts of that where Lani leaned over and whispered that the subtitles were way off from the spoken word.
Mostly in areas that were so steeped in assumed understanding of Japanese folklore that it just would make no sense at all to someone who wasn't. There is a lot in Spirited Away that just goes right over an American's head. |
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And it might not as well if you're an American who was raised by the ambassador to Japan who felt it was important to expose his children to local cultures and therefore had you go to Japanese public schools rather than the American School in Japan (real place and Lani's Japanese alma mater). Or if you are a masters student in cultural anthropology with a focus on Japanese folklore.
It was a (accurate) generalization and there are obvious exceptions. Shall we list them all? |
Watching Howl with his rightly youthful Japanese voice took my breath away. I fell head over heels for him. When we switched over to dubbed I thought Christian Bale's husky voice being used for the lithe and youthful Howl was ridiculous. Totally took me out of the movie.
Billy Crystal is Billy Crystal, not a pesky fire character. Again, there's no way I could have watched it that way. The Japanese voice was wonderfully, well, Japanese. I'm still miffed that we had to watch Kiki's with dubbing. CERTAIN people overrode us on that one. ;) Phil Hartman's worst hour, and I definitely count myself a fan of his. If I want to try another culture's food, I don't smother it in Cheez Whiz. If I want to try another culture's art, I want it sans Americanization. As for the movie itself - a beautiful thing to behold, but in the end the story was too disjointed for my taste. The author is a well-published children's fantasy novelist, but I haven't read anything by her. I think I may hunt down a copy. |
I know the point you're trying to make GC, but since the obvious exceptions don't actually weaken the point being made in my generalization (as they do in your generalization) I don't really think it is the same thing.
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Huh? I meant that Lani is a Japanese American and that she would catch such references... Referring to the first part of your post. But since I didn't quote that then I guess I was once again being unclear??? Do I have to qualify each and every post of mine? If so, I need to dust off my Stoup to English dictionary because I haven't used it since MP. :D |
If I was wrong in my assumption then I apologize. I don't think I was but so be it.
But my initial response that there are all kinds of rare exceptions to the generalization stands. Do we need to list them all? |
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We could list them all, I suppose. If that's what you want. :confused: |
I don't want the list of exceptions, but I DO want Lani's (or Alex's) list of over-your-stupid-American-heads mythic Japanese folklore items ... so's I can enjoy Spirited Away even more than I already do.
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Well, I don't know that I will ever again be able to distract her from World of Warcraft long enough to actually watch an entire movie.
But she did address some of the untranslated (though not so much the differently translated) elements of the movie in our review of the DVD. The relevant paragraphs: Quote:
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I watch animated films as much for the visual art as I do for the story. I like to see the dubbed version at least the first time soI can concentrate on the beautiful art of Ghibli rather than on reading subtitles. On a second viewing, I like to watch the subtitled.
For non-animated films, I only watch subtitled versions. But, I usually have to see the greatly visuals films a couple of times to fully appreciate the film as a whole. |
Heheh, I find it amusing that I am oooh-ahhed at the wonderment of character clues in the names of Ghibli creations ... and yet I moan in horror when I find such simplistic claptrap in Harry Potter or Star Wars.
I think it's not simply my cultural reverance for Nipponese, but rather the obviously crafty way it's done in the fine example quoted above from Lani's review of Spirited Away vs. the hammer-headed, retarded-child way it's done by the likes of J.K. Rowling and George Lucas. * - my praise is for the Thousand Fathoms example only. The other two are just as lametard as the Brit and American style of revelatory names. |
I also think it is different in Japanese where the underlying meaning of a name is readily apparent to any literate person.
In English, "Alexander" means "defending men" only because there are scholars of dead languages to tell me so. Whereas in Japanese, Lani is reminded that "Akiko" (her first name) means "autumn child" every time she sees it written. Descriptive names are standard in Japanese whereas in the U.S. they are more a sign of hippie parents (we'd think nothing of it if you had a name that meant rainbow in 4th century Gaelic but actually naming a kid Rainbow is something different) and as with astrology finding meaning in things in Western culture I think the Japanese folklore assumption that your name has power to shape who you become is much stronger. I wonder if a Japanese person find it lame when reading a translatin of Gibson and says "can you believe he named the main character Hiro Protagonist?" |
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Hooray. I received the book from Amazon today, and I can't wait to find out whether Howl is really an effeminate, adolescent Nipponese boy or a husky-voiced, sexified American mangod.
(Oh, and I screened the film for zapppop over the weekend and he seemed to like it.) |
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Loved the movie, btw. NOt as much as Spirited Away, but close. |
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 His real voice has a sexy allure all its own, and like I said, I totally fell for him. |
Well, having finished the novel ... I can state categorically ... that both batman and johnny soko are right for the character Howl.
Howl is a ladies' man, a lothario, a love-'em-and-leave-'em heartbreaker, and a sexified con man. If sexy means androgenous boy to the Japanese (and to Cadaverous Pallor), then that's what's required for the Nipponese version of Howl. But that would simply NOT work for American audiences, and so I believe the husky batman voice was appropriate for the dubbing. Now that I've read the book, I have 10 times more admiration for the Ghibli movie ... which invented practically everything other than the basic characters, their basic situation, and a few of the events that take place inside the Castle. The Ghibli version invents the war scenario ... which I found so hamfisted. But that's comfortably grounded compared to the Ugh factor of the novel when .... Spoiler:
Wow, Ghibli invented practically everything for their version of the story, including ... Spoiler:
But, overwhelmingly, I prefer the movie version of the story. Not since Disney adapted Pinocchio has an unwieldy piece of children's literature been so vastly and (imo) successfully molded into an animated film. |
*skipping over the the library web site to put Howl on my request list*
Dying of curiousity as to why that part was embarrassing? Oh- got Spirited Away from Netflix....LOVED it! Next on the list- Nausica. |
Well, the whole concept was embarassing ...
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I thought the war stuff invented by Ghibli was GAY, but the novel's unfortunate twist was downright QUEER. |
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I see what you mean- that does detract from the wonder of it all. I'll still read it though. I love the worlds these movies take me to- they are amazing. |
I love the movie so much more after having read the book that - even though I've had my Netflix copy out for like 10 days now - I'm gonna go ahead and buy it.
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Man, I liked the movie. Read the book and I much prefer the novel. Saw the movie again, and it could barely keep my interest, the animation and the characters of Howl and Sophie aside. The contemporary element in the novel was abrupt, but it certainly didn't bother me as much as it did you, and I still prefer it.
Watched Whispers of the Heart for the first time. Now THAT is a Ghibli movie that recieves my full support. The story, animation, characters, little asides...it was just a perfect movie in every way. I fell madly in love with it. The second time I watched Howl, I found myself wanting to fast forward some parts. Ah, well. To each her own. |
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Well, they changed so much that ... had they desired, they would not have hesitated an instant to change the story's locale to Japan. As they did not ... I will watch it in the proper King's English.
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