Bad day for war proponents
 

Pat Tillman's brother speaks out against the war in Iraq .

"Somehow, the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow, this is tolerated. Somehow, nobody is accountable for this."

And, a senior US diplomat said this today: (link )
"In an interview with Al-Jazeera television aired late Saturday, Alberto Fernandez, director of public diplomacy in the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs at the State Department offered an unusually candid assessment of America’s war in Iraq. “We tried to do our best but I think there is much room for criticism because, undoubtedly, there was arrogance and there was stupidity from the United States in Iraq,” he said."

Someone from the State Department thinks the war was a bad idea?

I am totally shocked;)

heh- no kidding.

Shiver syndrome eh?

He works in government and lost a brother so he gets immidate sympathy and his vast inside knowlage about the situation gives him buckets of credibility I suppose he also has immunity from critizism and those who disagree are further supposed to feel bad calling him out as for instance I would as one angry fvcking tool.

What a find!

His whole argument is couched in a frothing apeal to emotion.

Try again

Hmmm....listen to someone who's actually been there, and has lost someone he loves in such a horrible and scandalous way, or....you?

Get used to it- there are a lot of people who are starting to turn against this war, and for very good reasons.

It's about time!

Sounds like Limbaugh's criticism of Michael J. Fox, or Coulter on the 9/11 widows.

Must be the new tactic the kewl kidz are using.

Here, let me try.
Babies are so freaking manipulative! They make me angry! Arrgh! They lay around all day, exaggerating their adorability, and get people to feed them, lug them around, and wipe their little baby asses. Stupid babies!

Did I get it right?

You were so convincing! ;)

Nope sounds like 99.9 percent of the nonstop railing against The evil Bush-Hitler that pases for discorse around here to me :D

Gn2Dland I am confused by your position do you now advocate taking stem cells from live retarted babies?

And as to the general point I much like southpart can and will suspend my personal sympathy for someone who like M.J. Fox and his terrible disease decided to make it fair game by whoring it out in the political arena.

In that spirit

I will vote for whoever Michael J want's if he comes over to my place and makes me a martini, no forget that I would at that point be whoring myself out too. Make it a french martini!

I'm sure Michael is sooo glad he's got Parkinsons, just so he can whore himself out for ...uhm whatever you seem to think he gets out of having this disease.

I can't figure out what the rest of your post is supposed to mean, so I'll leave it to someone who speaks Tramspotter to interpret it for me.

He gets nothing but is using the disease to elicit a sympathy vote for particular candidates based on his personal tragady and issue I find it distasteful enough to go beyond limbaugh and Coulter and offer to change my vote to whomever he wants if he will shake me up a martini or manhattan with matching government funded booze.

Would those be the candidates who might do something to allow for a cure to be found for his disease?

Is that what you call whoring? I hope this never happens to you, but come back when you have lung cancer and then tell me what you will or will not do to find a cure for lung cancer, k?

I think Ann has voted outside her precinct one too many times this year already.:evil:

Well, I respect Fox and admire his courage. You can make fun of him all you want, but at the end of the day his is a life that mattered, and to more than just himself. He is the epitome of grace, which is ironic given his terrible illness.

Friends don't let friends post drunk.

Won't someone please be Tramspotter's friend?

(If this is a side effect of your medication, I apologize)

I'm glad I wasn't the first to observe the Tramspotter linguistic, um, oddness. I didn't want to say anything because ....Aw hell: Jeez, dude: get a spell-checker! My eyes hurt reading these things! Sorry!

No he is not the epitome of grace for fvck sake he is putting himself out there trading in on his fame and likeability as a living shaking apeal to sympathy and emotion regarding political races based on his single issue which is also very expensive, complicated, unproven, medical and ethical slippery slope of an issue. which is then further compounded by the right to life aspect. He wants to tap public funds instead of making some sort of private foundation.

But after seeing a video clip of him I have changed my oppinion of him personally. How he responded to the limbaugh/coulter et all slamming and was cordgial to those on the other side of the issue he showed much class. Too bad he didn't just stump for the issue and show that same class in the comercial.

Interview with MJF

So lets do what he asked at the end of this piece... but nope he didn't he just clung to hope asked us to do the same and stumped for the democrats whos position might as well be fronted by the mad cloning doctor Mophesto on southpark. Ill thought out ill planned offensive as growing a clone copy to harvest organs off of. Which science is closer to doing than coaxing stem cells into some form of therapy.

And no I am not drunk just refusing to take the time to spell/grammer check if I was drunk well **** howdy I don't think you could take that kind of stream of conciousness.

I had no idea you were a medical researcher. Perhaps you could point me to some of your publications? Research studies?

So, wtf would you do if the politicans were playing football with your life, Tram? MJF is experiencing a living hell, and politics are holding up his ticket out of there. What would you do? Anything? Odds are, in your lifetime you will have something similar happen*, and the way things are going, odds are you'll be S.O.L.


*Catastrophic illness.

Instead?

Michael J Fox Foundation

Ah.. So THERE is your real problem, is it? You must have missed his stumping for republican Arlen Spector.

Good! I'd hate to think it's an alcohol haze that is responsible for the misrepresentations and hypocrisy in your post.

Are you telling me Fox got Parkinson's so he could start a foundation in his name and everyone will say what a great guy he is? What a dick!

Those adds are not for the foundation now are they?

I am going simply by his ads and the democratic partys platform on stem cell reserch as presented he must not have wanted us to know about the foundation he dosen't mention it during all this publicity.

Stumping for spector hardley a Republicans Republican more like providing cover.

And where did I say he got Parkinsons to start a foundation in his name I said I wouldnt have lost respect for him and called it whoring himself out if it were just an issue add or apeal for private funds.

And Prudance and Wendybeth look it up your selves and show Scientific progress not Scientists puffing up thier results growing an ear on a mouses back and wanting to do further research at the publics expense. Raw tissue harvesting is comming and my opinion is it's too early to write it a blank government check. When the first nasty nasty mistake or ethical violation occours why not this time not have it be us why act now why such a rush why cant we stay out of the fray. Others are working on it private firms are complaining about the stock of cells they alreay harvested going bad. He fails to mention this either. I can only assume he wants more $ and little to no restrictions as seen in the Democratic Party Platform. How does the most Agressive jive with under the strictest ethical guidelines? perhaps we should consult DR Nick.

California is already coffed up a large amount that we shouldn't be spending on it's own. Why the fvck is this the governments responsibility anyhow.

At best and there is of course no certianty bleeding the public coffers and raising embryos to 250 cells or so or whatever the best time to harvest them and having the best doctors work on it for years the best estimates are 10 years to even start testing on humans. How do you feel about animal testing? because they will burn thrugh many many thousands of animals before then.

So working people up and jumpping on bandwagons and support good ideas but not give a rats ass about thier implimentation or mitigating problems before they happen especialy problems that can't be undone. yup sounds like the classic liberal way to do things to me.

I would rather be a Dick than an Asshole or Pussy if those are my only options.

You didn't. I did.


MJF is the dick. You're the guy who lacks reading comprehension skills.

No, they are not. Your original point was that he chose to take the political route rather than the foundation route. He's doing both.

Tell me, when one does a political ad for a candidate they support, do they generally spend that time tooting their own horn, or restrict their comments to bolstering their candidate or bashing their candidate's foe?

May be, but it does prove the lie of your statement.

Try to stay on topic. We're not talking about Iraq.

Here's to your continued success.

Mouse ears? I think you may be referring to hair cell regeneration, which is actually achieved through gene therapy. Since my kid has a hearing disorder that this will someday soon be able to fix, I am all for it and if it became a political issue would endorse the candidates who supported the research.


Tell me, do you consider Patricia Heaton and her group of celebs political whores as well?

Must be nice to live in a world where everything is someone else's problem with which the rest of us need not concern ourselves.

You can


Stem cell research must be a hard sell on it's own if an appeal to emotion is why it should be supported.

This answer just won't do I of course knew about the spector add and didn't head it off so foolish of me... I should try again

No, I am not saying that at all, and I quite agree with you MJF is a dick.

Eh, not worth wrestling with the pig. I just had a shower.

No I was talking about this


There is no genetic engineering or even human tissue involved here. But you gotta grow the coaxed stimulated stem cell tissue somewhere and since even your shallow party would put in some sort of for public consumptionfrowning on human testing it's gonna be annimals... so will you have as much bile twards PITA when they oppose as for the knuckle dragging bible thumpers who as MJF said can't wrap their hearts or heads around the issue H,mmmm?

Yes, and much better looking whore too. She apparently also want's Federal coin to support some alternate pro life plan and even some B.S. constitutional amendment allowing adult stem research being deceptive in it's Pro-Life-ness.

"the position of the organization was detailed by her fellow "FFL" member, actress Margaret Colin. Colin testified before the Commerce Committee Subcommittee on Science and Technology on May 2, 2001 and said the following: "We urge you to direct federal funds to support these promising new alternatives, including stem cells acquired from consenting adults, women donating placenta and umbilical cord blood donations – even stem cells from fat, which I have a feeling many of us would be more than happy to donate, in the name of science, of course...Feminists for Life and I support non-destructive forms of stem cell research."

I was responding to Scrooge McSam's post about the Foundation. As for Fox....Alex P Keaton was a dick and many of Mikey J's movies sucked but Fox seems like a pretty decent guy.


Speaking of dicks, I've been something of a snarky prick in this thread and others lately. For that I apologize to you, Tramspotter, and everyone else.

And only a whore would sleep with Ray Romano (even for pretends).

You know you are just proving my point to any who would care to see why MJF stumping for a politician using his illness implied claim being that there will be a cure if only congressmen so and so wouldent stand in the way of stem cell research it's dirty pool and further has no place in pure science. Especialy for genetic engineering where the highest ethics are required if they can't be summoned even while procuring funding and public aproval to be whored out to the masses and sold this and other cheap ways why shoulden't I fear the product?

How can anyone be against sunshine, kittens, stem cell research, icecream and lollypops or even against MJF and not feel touched by his affliction.

My being rough with him somehow brings down a world of knee-jerk pain yet other public figures that folks disagree with get a double helping of poision discorse.

I agree after watching his response interviews, I believe him to be just that and far less of a tool than the politican who greedily accepted his endorsement in ad form.

Hey, no apology nessasary I was heated enough looking thrugh other threads to start the snark. Don't start geting all reasonable on me or I will feel the need to apologize too and that would serve nothing but putting me in firmly with the pvssys. :eek:

Agreed.

Everyone might love raymond, but I hated it! Especialy when your locked on an airplane and it loops the whole freaking flight!

Geesh, finally we agree on something.

Didn't take long at all Sensitivity training will soon be be required for any pig/cow/sheep fvcker refrences as the pig/cow/sheep people might get offended. So what if we find a cure donate now and fund the freekshow!!!

Why am I reminded of a drunk guy stand on a street corner evangalizing?

I don't know I thought it very germain that the very kind of experimentation that loose medical ethics and poor forsight that science can bring are past thier infant stages and the race for the ultimate cure is being played more like a grudge match rugby game with crooked refs where everyone in the stands wants to see some carnage no one cares who wins but which team and player can show the most fragrant foul thus increasing thier noteriety and funding for next year.

Being dismissive of blind faith when it comes to religion and morality yet giving the same to burnt out body mechanics and career biochemists many of whom coulden't hack the riggors of medschool but put in a ****pile of time and wanted to come away with some degree and a decent standard of living... Do you honestly believe nothing stupid or untorid can be done in the name of science?

Or is science somehow the epitome of enlightenmentm, pure discovery beautiful in all its forms? Is Greek Reason paired with raw Science an aceptable religion within moral relavitism?

Are you so hard core that there isn't even the posibility of too far? This obviously isnt even close for you. And on the face of it it isn't but it is a milestone in that even amoung the scientific comunity human and animal geneomes were not meddled with together on a genetic level.

So let me get this strait altering human genetics with animals for gene therapy on tissue alone would be ok but creating a conception level cure for various ailments is not? (The latter could be broadly applied to this given case)

Or how about
creating pigs/cows/sheep with alterd genes so their organs can be accepted by humans? Is that ok; but making genetic level alterations using a given percentage of animal and human DNA and doing the same is that not ok?

I would assume cloning a human for research and not going past the third trimester is ok but growing a population of docile very controlable hybrid man beasts not ok? What if they are already doing it in Oslo? Our economy would colapse under the strain of a new more powerful IKEA that would benifit from such a workforce.

There are a host more realistic concerns that have plagued biomedical ethicists conserning making unusual out of the box advancements and the intermidiate and long term costs of both failures and sucesses. Do you honestly think they tout the failures when whoring for more money and fame? Often the problem in science is not in actuality funding or even the technology but should it even be done in the first place.

Anyway
So how does being a gung ho supporter of pure science and apparently not considering any of the concerns brought up make one any better than the much villified knuckle dragging, bible thumpers who oppose various research purely on moral grounds?

It seems you still miss my point if your are willing to lable me a drunken heriticical blasphemer of science in order to dodge it. But I could be wrong.

And before one of you schoolmarm briggands corrects me, yes yes Oslo is Norwigian. I ment Stokholm... I just got new dishes at Ikea and had my perfuntory meatball dinner there and should have not missed that one.

There is a point within all of that babble? Forgive my stupidity, but I am not comprehending a point, therefore, I'm not terribly eager to engage in debate on the topic.

Fine by me. Babble on.

Anything can be taken to extremes, and the general field of Science has long wrestled with moral/ethical questions in it's study and application. It is not infallible. The same goes for religion- if we take it to it's earliest, most extreme points, we would all be eligible for death by stoning. (Not the Jeff Spicolli type of stoning, either). Would you say that birth control is wrong, Tram? Lots of religions think so. How about interracial relationships? I could go on and on, but you get my drift. There is a place for balance, the Golden Mean, or whatever else you want to call it. There have been so many medical advances that have taken place with ethically questionable research, yet I doubt anyone is going to give up their insulin or chemotherapy or whatever other potentially lifesaving procedure or medication might help them. I never respected Nancy Reagan more than when she came out in support of research that would spare others the same fate as President Reagan. Ironically enough, the latest research shows that stoning Spicolli-style seems to arrest the progress of Alzheimers, something that GW and his ilk would not approve of.

Tram,

One point first...

No, I don't.

You raise a lot of valid concerns. Where I leave you is when you try to suggest that no one is concerned with regulation. I don't think that's accurate.

This is a digression but anyone recall the dow corning silicone breast inplant scare? It is exactly how I see the left deal blows to medical progress with uninformed sudo science bandwagonerring scaremongering emotional apeals and frothing anti-corperate bile. Greedy lawers and lefty dogooders bancrupted a private sector company with a track record in being an inovator on several medical fronts all on extreemly shaky anicdotaly charged evidence. Sure the company was arrogent and protecting it's own interestes and made a miriad of other chemicals that you might think are the worst thing since the renisance yet their science internaly was believed to be sound and unquestionable after decades of the material being used surgicaly.

So after the disbanding massive job loss and canceling of several promising projects were lost independant reserch proves they were right and it was not even the worst freaking leaky implant that caused cancer relapses but a higher percentage of brest cancer patients that had them in the first place just what the company contended all along. To damn late for vindication they are done in already so where are the cries that these lawers and familys or suriving women give back some of their ill gotten gains to repay the loss in inovation progress and lives? fvcking crickets all I hear.

No they are too busy moving on producing an inflamatory comercial against mclintock featuring a little girl saying why are you holding peoples lifes in your hand mr mclintlock what gives you the right...

How can you get behind such tactics and still wag a fingers at vile conservatives I guess I havent read enough chomsky oh snap thats right they belive in a moral code that is differnt from yours and therefore must be as stupid as a bowl of mice.

You can sell me a **** covered tortilla but don't ****ing say trust me it's a breakfast burrito. The Bush-hitler position I believe started more reasonable untill he won the midterms... you should thank your compleatly unreasonable lefty representitives who should have cut a reasonable deal and gotten fundage outside of the public sector and I am hazy on the details but remember no abortions after the third trimester and no testing or use of a fetus after a month as wrong as I might be on the details the point is it was a far better deal kept a fine supply of embryo stemcells with resonable safegards and would have provided plenty of stem cells yet also bans on some of the worst case senarios I put forth in America... Why not turn some anger at those other countrys for loose ethics or tight national wallets...

So don't be mad that you have a **** burrito now if your chicken little representatives were more reasonable you could have had churizo and only a wee bit of menudo...

I'll have what you're having. :)

I really have no frikken idea wtf you are trying to say, Tram. Seriously. I did try and read through your post, but I could not for the life of me figure out what you are saying.

I ran your post through Word and there were 50 errors. I don't think you can blame people when they say your posts are unintelligible. Typos are one thing, but ...dude! Come on!

Ok.


There are four * before Burrito.... so is it **** burrito? **** burrito? **** burrito? or Bean Burrito? ;)

Even Word didn't know what fit in there.:D

So much for my mid-night snack:eek:

Hi, Jeff! Hey, do you speak Tram?

Not a big fan of chorizo or menudo, to be honest. I'm going to need a bigger selling point.

I -

Nevermind.

I'm running off to taco bell to order a bowl of mice. Be back in a bit.

I'm back, and all I have to say is:

The orbiting inferiority complex avoids contact with a rattlesnake. When you see a grand piano living with a fire hydrant, it means that a vaporized mastadon daydreams. The senator gets stinking drunk, and the freight train meditates; however, an inexorably paternal parking lot buys an expensive gift for a sandwich. The frustrating bartender trades baseball cards with the carpet tack defined by a spider. Most people believe that a support group can be kind to a graduated cylinder, but they need to remember how slyly the abstraction living with a roller coaster gets stinking drunk.

Now and then, a power drill pees on another spider. A blotched polar bear takes a coffee break, and a prime minister living with a spider brainwashes a shabby salad dressing. When you see some dust bunny defined by the photon, it means that a nation daydreams. Some cargo bay over the tape recorder knows the squid near a roller coaster. Now and then, a hockey player related to some cab driver buries a lover around a movie theater. A traffic light inside the wheelbarrow ostensibly figures out a boiled plaintiff. When you see a cosmopolitan short order cook, it means that a pompous light bulb gets stinking drunk. A diskette graduates from the hole puncher living with a pork chop, but the blood clot hesitantly laughs and drinks all night with a line dancer. Sometimes an inexorably alleged rattlesnake laughs out loud, but a sandwich always knowingly steals pencils from the frightened cowboy! A self-actualized bottle of beer slyly is a big fan of the microscope.


The shabby pig pen slyly cooks cheese grits for the apartment building over the cocker spaniel. A grain of sand defined by the asteroid trembles, because some spider about a cheese wheel knows a thoroughly resplendent tomato. Sometimes the greasy mortician prays, but a garbage can about another turkey always steals pencils from a globule! Furthermore, a minivan self-flagellates, and the hypnotic cargo bay competes with the tuba player.


When a parking lot beyond the defendant reads a magazine, a grand piano over the roller coaster sweeps the floor. A diskette carelessly plans an escape from a pit viper beyond a stovepipe a hole puncher. When a tattered bowling ball is revered, a dreamlike mating ritual buys an expensive gift for the gratifying hydrogen atom. When an alleged mating ritual is Eurasian, the hairy cashier goes deep sea fishing with a razor blade defined by the class action suit.

:eek:

wow

Thanks Lisa... The way you word it makes much more sense.

I disagree about the spider and the cheesewheel. Otherwise, I'm in agreement.

BTW, which make and model of minivan self-flagellates? I'm in the market and want to make sure that I get all the options that are available. I don't play tuba, but still...

Ask the traffic light inside the wheelbarrow. It knows.

Wow, NA- I'm impressed. Not a single typo! :snap:


(I owe ya some mojo, btw).

I love cheese grits, but I hate the cocker spaniel aftertaste.

How much cold medication have you taken today?

Good lord, you're right! She's all hopped up on Thera-flu, and today is voting day! I'll bet she writes in one of her cats on the ballot.

Considering some of the people in office right now, would that be a bad thing?

I vote for Charlie.

Charlie don't surf...

That was not my incoherent babbling. I can be good, but never that good - even on drugs.

That fine piece of Bot-written poetry was actually received and posted by my husband in the Poetry of Spam thread.