Email I got from a friend at work- (I added nothing)
 

Interesting reading......

DID YOU KNOW THIS?

Did you know that 47 countries have re-established their embassies in
Iraq?

Did you know that the Iraqi government employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?

Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated, 364 schools are under rehabilitation, 263 schools are now under construction and 38 new schools have been built in Iraq?

Did you know that Iraq's higher educational structure consists of 20
Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers?

Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in
January 2004 for the re-established Fulbright program?

Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is operational? They have 5- 100-foot
patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.

Did you know that Iraqi's Air Force consists of three operation squadrons,
9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft which operate day and
night, and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 bell jet rangers?

Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando
Battalion?

Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000 fully trained
and
equipped police officers? [Thank you, Ron!!]

Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq that produce over
3500 new officers each 8 weeks?

Did you know there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq?
They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83 railroad
stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical
facilities.

Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received
the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?

Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary
school by mid October?

Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and
phone use has gone up 158%?

Did you know that Iraq has an independent media that consist of 75 radio
stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?

Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?

Did you know that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a
recent televised debate recently?

OF COURSE WE DIDN'T KNOW!

WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW? OUR MEDIA WOULDN'T TELL US!

Because a Bush- hating media and Democratic Party would rather see the
world blow up than lose their power.

Instead of shouting these accomplishments from every rooftop, they would
rather show photos of what a few perverted malcontent soldiers have done
in
prisons in many cases never disclosing the circumstances surrounding the
events.

Instead of showing our love for our country, we get photos of flag burning
incidents at Abu Ghraib and people throwing snowballs at presidential
motorcades.

The lack of accentuating the positive in Iraq serves only one purpose. It
undermines the world's perception of the United States and our soldiers.

I AM ASHAMED OF MY FELLOW AMERICANS WHO WOULD RATHER SEE TERRORISM SUCCEED THAN A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT.

This is verifiable on the Department of Defense website. Pass it on!

All partisan hackery, nephy! What else could it be? These must be lies, lies lies! :rolleyes:

links to stories with these facts? or am I just to believe it because you got it in email. there should at least be a video archive of the debates somewhere online.

Who wrote this e-mail....Dubya's mommy?

snide much?

I didn't write it- and I didn't say you have to believe it. The email cites its own source.

Maybe.

When an e-mail states as fact that a Bush-hating media and the Democratic party would rather see the world blow up than lose their power I assume that Dubya's over-protective mommy wrote it.


Btw, wouldn't a Bush-hating media be all over this story?

You know what? Even if it is true it still doesn't change my stance on what we did. We went into Iraq to find WMDs because Saddam was going to blow us up if we didn't get to him first. Welp, no WMDs. Lies by the Administration to finish what daddy started, or to fulfill a vendetta.

Sure, it's great that the Iraqi people are quasi-free. But at what cost to AMERICAN lives? Over 1,000 service members have been killed because our government is trigger happy and fear mongering!!!

So their education system is great. But ours, AMERICAS leaves SO MUCH to be desired. Why not get OUR system up to par before worrying about other countries? Why not fix OUR crumbling schools before fixing another countries?

Sure, their military is operational, but WHY is OURS full of equipment from the Vietnam war? Why do OUR service members families have to hold bake-sales and fundraisers to buy flack jackets and body armor for those in Iraq?!

Did you know that OUR service members have to BUY their own body armor, uniforms and weapons to protect themselves over there (or anywhere)?!

Why are we so worried about other countries and their citizens when our country needs a lot of repair? Our schools are crumbling, we have starving children and families. We have homeless families because someone got sick and they couldn't afford the rent the next month. We have homeless and seriously ill vets, people who served our country because their benefits are being slashed left and right. Thanks for your service, now go live on the street we need the money that would go to your medical care to go find WMDs that aren't there and fight a war we're not ready to start. Oh I'm sorry little Jimmy, you can't eat today, your low income lunch program has been cut to provide Iraqi children with structurally safe buildings. Remember to run as fast as you can out of the building if the ground starts shaking! I'm sorry Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you'll have to live on the street or in a shelter for another few months because the programs you need to get you back on your feet and be productive contributing members of society have been cut.

Yea. Real great. Lets put our country last. If we keep it up we won't have a country.

:snort: :snap:

I'm sorta doubting all the data.....because there's no back-up. I've seen some very convincing emails that have been full of crap before, so I take email testimony for what it's worth.....not much.

I'm shocked, shocked, that they left out the fact that 1500 U.S. soldiers have DIED, and countless thousands of others have been injured (which is going to cost the U.S. PLENTY down the road on disability benefits and medical bills--yippee!), oh, and we've spent BILLIONS on this damn war, when our own country is just eh at the moment. Yes, I'm surprised, very surprised that the email left out all the other stuff......

Yeah, I like to get all my news from the DOD.

No, no no no no.......it's the newest neo-con on the block Hillary Clinton who wrote this ;)

I just love spam, don't you?

SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM

Oh, stop with that English drivel. would you?

Wow na lang! George Bush sure does love Iraq! He is our greatest president of Iraq, ever!

What a completely asinine statement!

How about having a president who is able to focus on going after the person responsible for the largest terrorist attack on our nation (who still walks free), rather than invade a country that should never have been our #1 priority. Those actions have led to the creation of more, not less, terrorists.

How about a president who takes seriously our need to control our borders to prevent another terrorist attack, even if it might cost him some votes.

How about an administration that could have taken out Zarqawi when they had the chance (three of them, actually) but didn't because it might undercut the case against going to war with Iraq.

Sorry but the problem isn't that there aren't enough feel-good stories about Iraq on the news. Perhaps every one of the items in the OP is true (although I'm surely not going to trust the DOD propaganda site), it still doesn't erase the fact that invading Iraq did nothing substantial to reduce the threat of another terrorist attack in our country. It doesn't erase the billions of dollars being spent on this war when that money is sorely needed elsewhere. It doesn't erase the fact that we are facing serious problems recruiting new soldiers when the military is stretched too thin. It doesn't erase the fact that there are other threats that deserved more of our attention but didn't get it due to a president who's only focus was taking out Saddam.

Thank you. You've expressed exactly what I've been struggling to articulate ever since I read this thread last night.

I am ASHAMED of my fellow Americans who care more about other countires than our own!

I am ASHAMED of my fellow Americans who want to take others rights away because of their religious beliefs.

I am ASHAMED of my fellow Americans who blindly believe ANY president or government offiical. One of our RIGHTS in this country is to question our government. It should be done more often.

I am ASHAMED of my fellow Americans who bash and call anyone who doesn't support our President anti-American. Does that make everyone who didn't support Clinton anti-American too?

If this is true, where did the list come from?

I'm curious where this notion of "THE MEDIA" as some sort of big brother comes from. In this day of widespread internet connections, there are many "media" outlets of a wide variety of flavors.

The stories no doubt are out there, but probably are not as entertaining or visually stimulating to get into a 30 minute TV news program. But these things are in the entertainment business, so I can't fault them becasue honestly we'd rather see Janet Jackson's boobs than hear about any of the above. Politics is so boring don't you know.

A very good point!

Wow, let's of rhetoric flying around. Let me counter your hateful comments and show you how wrong it is to state them by espousing my own hateful vindictive rhetoric (not pointed at anybody specific, kinda just an observation).

While I normally like to do more research before getting involved in such a spate, I will provide links to Snopes who did a little non-partisan response (basically: some facts, some opinions, some questionable stuff) along with a link Snopes provides with an alternative viewpoint from Voices in the Wilderness within Iraq. (I find it amusing that even those who bash the OP as whitewash never bothered to find any FACTS to support their argument.)

I've pretty much decided to stay out of matters of politics of late because there is not a single thing that could be said at this point (at least that I have seen) that is going to change anyone's minds around here. Well, that and free time for me is scarce these days.

I really have to wonder if that's really the point of discussing politics, It seems to me, that most people do it to convince themselves that thier own opinions are right, and others are wrong. Shifting opinions would spoil the fun.

I'm a bit puzzled by this post. I re-read the entire thread but I don't see any hateful comments being flung around (including your post, for that matter). I just see people being passionate about what they believe. Does it get snide at times? Sure, people get frustrated on both sides but I don't think that should be confused for hatred.

Although, perhaps you are talking about hatred for this president, something I hear quite often from the right. Supposedly, I hate my president and my country because I disagree with the direction we have taken. It is just not true though, as much as some would love to believe it. I hate that our soldiers are dying every day. I hate that our spending is out of control and that Iraq is eating up a good chunk of our tax dollars. I hate that Osama Bin Laden continues to walk free. Those are the things I hate, not President Bush, and certainly not America. I just don't think that Bush is doing a particularly good job. You don't have to hate the man to disagree vehemently with his policies.

MBC: If you are questioning my use of the word "hateful" I would just say that while the posts in this thread may not be the worst, most hateful things ever said, that there is still an underlying hatred of our president that is quite apparent here. I will not quote any of the words of people here because then it will turn into a pissing match, and I just don't have the patience for it. Suffice it to say that yes, I believe that there have been examples of hatred; even if not overt.

As far as my use of words like "rhetoric" and "vindictive": if you cannot see that in this thread (and many of the conversations about politics and our president) that these words do apply, then you need to take off the rose-colored glasses. The rhetoric is thick and being used by BOTH sides.

Lastly, while I have stated my opinions on our president, I have not taken a side in this thread. If you read the second link I provided, it was more about how things are not so rosy in Iraq.

:jumping in: I still hate this arrogant little sh*t! :) :jumping out:

Wimp! :D

What me wimpy?

Stupid liberal media always focusing on the negative side of war. Don't they know that true patriots want sunshine blown up their ass?

back to being snide again-

I'm sorry I ever share these things with people here- the snottiness and attitude are stifling.

"I AM ASHAMED OF MY FELLOW AMERICANS WHO WOULD RATHER SEE TERRORISM SUCCEED THAN A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT."

People are just reacting in kind.

Sorry, didn't mean to stifle you. I was just matching the tone of your original post.

GD/Sac- they were not my words. as I pointed out- and I would think people here are smart enough to know that, and I was not aware that the common way to react was to try to stoop lower than you found the OP to be.

This is not a discussion- it turned into a stomping fest.

Your words or not, that's what you posted and that's what people were responding to. No need to take it personally, the reponse was to the wording of the email.

I didn't stoop anywhere. My post was simply sarcastic wiseguy smart-assery. And, good news!, I knew the e-mail was not your words so I'm at least that smart. I'm sorry you took things personally, as that was not my intention at all.


And, yeah, it probably feels like a stomping fest to you but that's not personal either. It's because the e-mail is 93% garbage.

but the email writer is not here. It's like being in a car with a driver who screams at other drivers. The other drivers can't hear you, but the passenger in your car is required to listen to the profanity. That is how I feel. Instead of opening a dialogue about the possibility of great thing we don't hear about it became one more excuse to hate fest on Bush and the whole Iraq thing. It's disheartening. I guess I should have deleted that line if I had know people would fixate on it so much.

I'm not sure why you're suprised you get the responses you do. You know the leanings and views of the community.

I think most people here also agree that the good things that are happening are indeed good, but dispite that the ends still don't justify the means.

They are replying to the post, not attacking you. If you wrote the email they would be replying to the email just the same. I see no posts attacking YOU directly. It's not our fault if you take it personally, especially since you didn't write it.

That might have been a good route to take. You have to admit that the line in question is pretty inflammatory as it basically accuses anyone who doesn't support the president of supporting terrorism. That statement is a little hard to just ignore and it certainly casts doubts as to the motive of the person that wrote it.

I think that the posters here fully understand that you didn't write it though and that you may not agree with all of the sentiments expressed in it. People are attacking the message, rather than the messenger, and I think that is the way it should be.

I'm not taking this personally. I think I would know. I do however feel that people could have made it a productive conversation rather than calling it spam and in general just using it as one more launching pad to slam on Bush. (kindly stop telling me I am taking it personally- I did not once think anyone was attacking ME- I just found the reactions to be disheartening and some flat out obnoxious- just MO, note, for the most part I stayed out of it, I just watched it unfold)

I don't take it personally when the driver screams at the other driver and only I hear them, doesn't make it less annoying.

The problem is, posting things like this legitamizes them. These things get passed around the internet, people take them at their word. So those of us who hate that trend (no matter which side of the issue the idiotic spam is on) react badly to it. We don't like seeing it propagated.

I apologize for telling you to stop taking it personally. It was the impression I got from your replies and you cleared that up.

As for it being a launching pad to slam on Bush again, well yea. Did you expect us to go OOOOOOOO so embassies are open, schools are open, I change my mind on the entire war and even though the American public was lied too I now think we were right in what we did?

No matter how many positive things about Iraq are posted I will never change my mind about this war. And I won't stop posting about it either. Nor do I expect you to change your mind about this war and I hope you don't stop posting about it either.

In general, to insuinate that anyone who is against this war or dislikes Bush is Anti-American is looking at the line and talking a giant step over it turning aruond and spitting on it.

GD- I fail to see why anyone just tosses it off as junk mail and spam- it was written in an acerbic manner, I don't deny, but if it is true, it is good news to know. The attitude that it is automatically JUNK or SPAM is a knee jerk hostile reaction and I expected better.

But no, I did not expect anyone to go OOOOOO and just *poof* change their mind- I wanted to share it, and maybe spark a discussion. Like I said, it was not a discussion, it was stomping.

I appreciate your apology BTD- and I know better than to get into the battle of so called lies ;)

Next time I will edit the more combative lines- I did not think of it when I posted it. It would be nice if people would at least talk about the substance of the email rather than fixating on one line and railing against that.

But you can rest assured I won't stop posting my opinions LOL :D

I've been lurking in this thread for a while, so I guess I'll jump in with my 2 cents.

Nephythys, I don't think you should edit out any of the text of an email you pass to the group. However, if you feel that the text echoes your sentiment but goes overboard with its manner, it might be helpful if you would say that in your initial post. For you to post something as "an email I got ... (I added nothing)" with no other explanation might lead a reader to believe (me included) that both the style and substance of the original email reflects your feelings. In that situation, I would imagine that the responses would hurt your feelings, but given the mordacious nature of the original email, I would imagine that you'd deserve it.

If you expected the discussion of the contents of the email to go a certain way, you could have done a much better job of setting up the conversation.

I must admit that I find your metaphor of someone yelling in a car to be a little off. If a passenger in my car dumped the contents of a letter he received in my lap and said "Look what I got! Neat spiders!" I'd yell a lot and expect that the misguided passenger to deal with my feelings.

Anyway, I'm always eager to hear other people's opinions. At worst, they make my own convictions stronger. At best, they open my mind. Please keep posting.

I'm fairly certain that if I go to a site that is conservative in nature and post an e-mail that is comprised of Al Franken or Michael Moore statements, I'd get seriously stomped. I doubt very much there would be any sort of constructive discourse. I get tons of e-mails like the OP, and I'm sure everyone else does as well.

Driver analogy-

Driver A
Driver B- and I am in the car with Driver B

Driver A cuts off Driver B- whether accidentally or purposefully. Driver B begins screaming profanities inside their closed car.

Driver A hears nothing, but I, as the passenger in Driver B's car, am subjected to all the abuse meant for Driver A.

Now, had I dropped spiders on Driver B, I would understand that coming my direction, but not when they are impotently screaming at Driver A who could care less.

(but thanks- I will keep posting ;) )

Your driver analogy still doesn't work.

Your friend (Driver B) never cut us (Driver A) off.

In fact, Driver B was never on the same road as us.

Driver B yelled his favorite song into your ear (or gave you a bunch of spiders or whatever).

You thought his song (or spiders) was cool.

You got into Driver A's car, knowing full well that they have different musical taste (or don't like spiders), but decided to yell the song into Driver A's ear anyway (or dumped the spiders).

To claim that Driver A is impotently shouting is wrong, plain and simple.

You want a discussion? Then say "My friend Driver A yelled this song in my ear. Do you mind if I sing it to you my way? I'd like your opinion."

You want a reaction? Scream the bloody song. Just don't wuss out and claim it wasn't you. I don't see your friend's name anywhere on your post.

Okay, I'll talk about the substance.

I did some fact-checking and found that indeed, a few of the lines I checked, appeared to be accurate. One though caught my interest and that was regarding small-pox vaccinations to children. Upon checking it out, I found out that a pretty intensive effort was made to vaccinate as many kids as possible and it was quite successful. The program was started under Hussein in 2000. I would venture to say that the high percentage quoted of kids that received the vaccination is due, in some part at least, to efforts made during the Saddam regime. So while the fact is true, it doesn't really have as much to do with our occupation as it would appear. I suspect there are other lines that use a similar method but I don't have the energy to research them all.

And while my feelings on the war are well known around here, that doesn't mean that I don't want things to get better for the Iraqis. And if they are, I think that is great. That doesn't mean that the successes are long-term though. I think the potential for a civil war in Iraq is still a big possibility and things may get a lot worse over there before they truly get better.

I think it was a mix of both. I can see how some of the replies can be taken as a stomping, they were harsh (mine included), but in a hot topic like this that should be expected.

:rolleyes: how is it I can post MY analogy for how I personally felt about the thread and you can tell me I'm wrong? I don't recall anyone here getting authority to validate my feelings or my analogy.

I'm not wussing out, and my friend did not write it either. I made it clear that I was not the author- that's all. I was not going to validate or deny anything on the email.

Thanks for the post MBC- I appreciate it. :) (even if I don't happen to agree with it all)

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it.

More negativity

Here's a better way to report such depressing numbers:

"American GI Death Toll At Only 1 Per 40,000 Votes For Bush"



Or, if you prefer, an even more negative spin:

"American Death Toll in Iraq Now At A Ratio Of 1500 Deaths Per 0 WMD Found"