American to charge for FIRST checked bag.
 

I saw this one coming...

First they make it hard to travel by air with just a carry-on due to limits on what you can carry. Now starting in June American will charge you $15 to check a bag.

Expect the other airlines to fall in line like domino's....

I expect to see naked, empty handed people arriving at security check points soon

Here's a link to the Reuters article.

I wonder if there will still be exceptions for international flights?

Yikes. And I can't think of a better time to start something like this than now. :rolleyes:
Do they realize that the economy tanked? So, for example, on top of a ticket that you could have paid $800 for (and the person next to you paid maybe $300 for) you have to pay for taking luggage on with you, too. Bleh! I didn't think the whole airport/flying experience could get any worse. But, most of the country won't care enough to say anything. They'll just follow along. Like cattle. Feelin' hopeless against a big corporation's shenanigans.

With oil trading at $131/barrel right now they're doing anything and everything they can to remain profitable.

Well, that settles it, might as well drive to San Francisco when we go.

Anyone seen that Bluefly commercial? We need to travel like that.

It has been more than a decade since I've checked a bag for a flight. I don't know why, except in certain unusual circumstances one ever would.

So I don't really care beyond the fact that it means the people who do check bags will try to cram that same amount of stuff into the overhead and under the seat in front of them (giving them less leg room so they spread their legs into my space).


There was someone on NPR last week (can't remember if it was local or national) talking about this phenomenon and put it in terms that makes a lot of sense (even if it isn't any less annoying).

It used to be that people were willing to pay extra for brand loyalty. But the internet age has almost completely broken the concept for airline loyalty outside of business travel.

Instead, the average consumer flyer goes to a web site where they are presented with a price list and then they choose almost exclusively on price.

Airline A --> $101
Airline B --> $121

Given that choice they always pick Airline A. Even though it is a no frills econoline that doesn't offer entertainment, food, assigned seating, etc. While Airline B does provide all of those things. But consumers don't care, they just want to see the lowest price on that screen. United/American/etc. can no longer compete with Southwest/etc. on service because the average buyer doesn't take service into account when making their choice.

So Airline B says ok, if all they care about is price, then we need to get that price down. So they cut services and charge for them. The net result is a price about the same as before but when you go to Travelocity it looks much cheaper. And, for some flyers (like me, who never checks a bag, doesn't sleep on planes, and really don't care if I'm fed on flights shorter than 8 hours) being able to opt out of services I didn't use is actually a boon.


The same thing has happened in hotels where people just go to Travelocity and pick the cheapest 2.5 star hotel in the town they're staying in. So hotels respond by adding all kinds of resort fees that aren't included in the Travelocity price just so they can appear competitive.

Yeah, I can't really get too upset about this one. They may be charging for the little services, but by doing so, they keep the face-price of the ticket from rising, so it ends up a wash, and you may even end up ahead if you forgo some of those services.

How is this shenanigans? American (and all of the other major airlines) have been losing money hand over fist; their stock price is in the toilet (currently trading under $7 when just one year ago, they were over $27). People are losing their jobs and American et. al. are just trying to stay afloat.

Where exactly is the shenanigans?

I personally think that charging people for their bags is ridiculous. There are times when you have to have luggage for your trip. It's not an option not to. So now you're getting charged for it. I think there are other ways to stay afloat rather than nickel and dime your passengers.

Again, by charging for checking baggage, it allows them to not increase the ticket price.

You're paying for it either way. This way just gives them a slight marketing advantage, and gives you the option to save a little money if you can get away without checking bags.

If they were raking in the dough and made this move as a way to squeeze more money out of people, that'd be one thing. But they're losing money, so if air travel is going to remain an option, we were all going to have to start paying more for it one way or another.

Ugh. What a world. Airlines gotta do what they can to stay afloat.

Can't take more than 3, 3 oz containers on. So if you can get your stuff in a carry on size suitcase, you're limited to the toiletry products that you can bring. I suspect you can't carry on razors.

Personally, the only reason I check a bag is because of the liquids I bring. I can buy travel size, but I still have more than 3 containers.

I know they need to make more money. But I'd rather just have a fare increase and know up front what I'm paying than trying to figure it all out when I'm checking in at the airport. I realize it's marketing but personally a fare increase is easier for me to figure out.

Also just thought of this - would this mean you would have to go into the airport to check in if you had a bag? How would you pay curbside? Do they have the ability to accept money there?

Are airports still doing curbside checkin?

Yes.

I don't understand is ticket pricing in general. ie. The last flight I took, my seat from LA to HI was $300. The guy sitting next to me paid $800 for his seat. It's weird how big of a difference that is.

But the airlines can do it anyway because there are a lot of people who would rather die than take a bus.

In economics it's called "price discrimination", the practice of charging different prices for the same, or similar, products to different people or groups of people. It's supply and demand at it's most base level. They'll charge what people are willing to pay.

Except that, as Alex rightly pointed out, people buy the cheapest ticket they see. Period. So if your ticket is $15 more than your competitor's, you're going to get fewer people on that plane and it won't matter that the ones that are on there are paying $15 more. They'd rather have 300 people, 50 of which pay $15 less because they didn't check a bag, than have only 200 people, each paying $15 more.

I disagree. The airlines are fiercely price competitive. They are engaged of a battle to the death at the moment. It is very difficult for any one of them to try to raise their prices on a particular route (see Alex's post above). There is no oligopoly here: there is definitely market driven pricing going on. Since the airlines cannot increase the published fare price, they have to find other ways of generating revenue.

Besides, you can't take a bus to Hawaii ;)

The only part I really have a problem with is when they don't tell you upfront. It sucks to get there, and then they tell you that you owe them money for luggage, taxes, port fees, whatever.

We'll see how it's handled. I know that in the past, the "you'll be charged for checking a 2nd bag" disclaimers were fairly noticeable at time of purchase on the various travel sites. Not necessarily right up front, but any cursory reading of the summary of charges let you know what was up. If this is handled the same way, then I have no problem with it. I'm sure people will miss it and get pissed, but what more can they do?

We'll see how this works. One of the worst parts of air travel for me is waiting in line at the check-in desk. I've avoided this for years by utilizing all of the expedited check-in options made available to me. If I have to go up to a desk and wait while a clerk charges me for <$20 in surcharges, I'll be really annoyed. If I can pay at home, no problem.

I know it is just a matter of personal travel style but other than having to take off my shoes air travel has only become easier for me over the years rather than more annoying.

I don't care if they show me a movie. I don't care if they feed me. I never check bags and my carry on, regardless of length of trip is always a gym bag with a separate camera bag.

So, a la carte pricing combined with electronic check in and printing boarding passes at home all make flying much more convenient to me than it was 15 years ago. Heck, even security isn't that big of a deal, despite all of the complaining I have never had to stand in line at security for more than 20 minutes since 9/11, the worst security line remains in 1994 when it took almost an hour to get through at SeaTac. Even when I get pulled for special screening (which happens regularly since we're fans of last minute travel and booking within 48 hours of flight gets you the dreaded SSSSSSSSS boarding pass) it is quick enough for my needs.

But we'll see how spoiled I get. For our two week France trip this fall we're flying business class on Virgin Atlantic (but I'll still only have a gym bag and a camera bag with me).

I know that from a marketing standpoint it makes sense to have the prices low and all services be add-on. It still bugs me. I just want to know - up-front - how much it will cost to get me from point A to point B, and with my stuff. It's becoming like the phone company - they tell you a rate, and then your bill comes with all these mysterious fees that were never mentioned.

Oh, that's for sure. And honestly, the airlines would rather it be that way too. The last thing they want is more visibility into how much these things actually cost them because it means less flexibility to increase their margin without people noticing. But there's just no viable choice anymore.

Agreed. I ideally, they'll integrate the option into the check-in process and let you pay when you check in, whether it's online or at the self-serve kiosks in the airport.

At least with United, when checking in online or at the kiosks there is already the ability to check luggage as well as the ability to handle payment for flight upgrades so I don't see why they wouldn't be able to handle accepting payments for checked bags (if they wanted to).

Continental has already said they won't be matching this move. If the other non-budget airlines do the same I expect American will back down.

Wouldn't this be harder to do now that they have weight limits on the baggage as well?

American to charge for FIRST checked bag.
 

Well i only travel by air maybe once a year once every two years so for me it's not a big huge deal. Most of the time i travel by car. But i saw this coming. With the costs of gas and living and the economy it's not a shock. I don't make enough trips on an airplane to really matter. Hmmm maybe i should consider trying to find out how to get a ride on the band's plane instead no charges for baggage lmao..

Another telling point...

My wife typically makes several flights a month. On an American flight last Monday she was told her carry on was too heavy and would need to be checked. This was a first in all her years of travel using the same carry on.

Now it makes sense.

The interesting thing is that you (for now at least) have a choice. United (or some other airline) has pricing that includes luggage whereas American does not. You have the choice of not flying American.

Point A) Unless you booked tickets on American months ago for a flight to Orlando....

Point B) "For Now" being the key operative phrase in your comment.


Edited to add: In regards to point 'A': Oops! Never mind. I'm on United. Yea me.

I'm not a lawyer (but I've played doctor many times in my life), but I would think that American would have to honor those tickets which were sold including the first piece of luggage (or whatever the rule was in effect at the time of purchase). They entered into a legally binding agreement by selling the ticket.

Agreed. Although I wonder if this may become a point of differentiation between airlines. "Come fly with us as we don't charge you for the first piece of luggage."

But given the herd mentality of the airline industry, I don't hold much hope for this option.

But once this becomes industry standard, the entire point of not simply making it part of the airfare becomes moot.

Everyone who's not a complete idiot will simply figure in the $15 - $45 their bags will cost to each fare price quoted, and the competition for lowest fare will be back to Square One.

Not really. It doesn't really change that dynamic from what it is now.

Now: You go online or go to the kiosk in the airport and check in. You say you're checking 1 bag. Once you've got your boarding pass, you go over to the counter where they put your bag on a scale. If it's under 50lbs, they put the tag on it and you're on your way. If it's over 50lbs, you pay your extra fee and you're, the put the tag on it and you're on your way.

With the $15 check fee: You go online or go to the kiosk in the airport and check in. You say you're checking 1 bag and pay $15. Once you've got your boarding pass, you go over to the counter where they put your bag on a scale. If it's under 50lbs, they put the tag on it and you're on your way. If it's over 50lbs, you pay your extra fee and you're, the put the tag on it and you're on your way.


And, actually, if you're at an in-airport kiosk that's got a scale attached to it, it can automatically charge you for any extra weight at the same time as it's charging you the $15. Which does sort of suck because most attendants will ignore it if it's only a couple lbs. over the weight limit while an automated system like that would be strict.

Point 'A' - Don't underestimate the number of complete idiots in the world.

Point 'B' - The cost of the first piece of luggage is already included so what they are doing is double billing you for the same bag. In time I expect they will just add it back into the price of the ticket, otherwise they will miss out on revenue every time a passenger does not check a bag. Assuming they don't start charging a "convenience" fee for each carry on bag.

Yes, but by that point a segment of flyers will be quite used to saving $15 by doing carryon only and would resent any move to change the system by increasing the price of their ticket just to pay for everyone else's baggage handling needs.

If that were the case, they wouldn't be losing money.

The reality is, AA wants to raise ticket prices by a little less than $15 to compensate for rising costs. But doing so would hurt sales due to one-click buying tendencies. So instead of charging everyone a little less than $15, they're charging some people $15 at a different point in the transaction.

I don't really see the big deal. They need to raise prices. You will be paying more to fly because they need to make money. I don't particularly care how they do it, and, like Alex, kinda prefer the "pay for what you actually use" model.

Well, this coupled with our previous horrendous customer service experience ensures that the LashPair will not be flying United in the future (we always have luggage with us in the USA).

...Especially the United team at Chicago Airport. They suck HARD.

It also means that I have to keep track of which airlines have additional fees and which don't. Of course, some will seek to differentiate themselves my marketing their lack of additional fees, which may make my job easier. For now, I add American to the list of Airlines I Will Not Use. (It joins United and US Air.).

And Reagan National I had to remove the extra .5 lbs of stuff from the suitcase. I mean really. Over by .5? I've never had anyone waive the weight limit. No matter how close, I've always had to repack or cough up funds.

Of course, they also let me carry on 20oz of low quality ginger ale, as has already been discussed.

Sure they would. Let's say that for now $10 out of every ticket goes for luggage costs. Since it's built into the ticket American gets this fee regardless of your checking a bag or not.

After June they will be adding a $15 fee to check a bag but they will not drop the $10 already built into the ticket price. So now if you don't check a bag American makes $10 from you (the built in fee) and if you check luggage they make at least $25 (built in + new fee). They won't let that stand. They will want $25 from you regardless of your checking the bag or not. To do that they will either A) Roll the $25 back into the ticket cost so everyone pays or B) Start charging for carry on luggage.

Then charge for pillows, blankets and peanuts, too. And there should be an air usage fee put in there, too. Each trip to the bathroom should cost a dollar. (With that last one, I'd be screwed.) :D

If they can dissuade enough people from checking bags, then they can sell the extra cargo space to freight companies. I'll bet there's a decent profit there.

And if there's less luggage the plane uses less fuel because it's lighter.

yeah, but I have to fight as it is to find a spot for my 1 carry-on

The bottom line is, they need to increase revenue or die. One way or another, you're paying for it. They've found that keeping that cost in the ticket price means fewer ticket sales. So they've found a way to get people to pay.

In the end, you're right, they want that $25 out of you. And they'll get it. Who cares how? If this is what works, and keeps airlines in business, then that's what it is. As long as it doesn't cause a massive inconvenience (and, as I argue above, this doesn't) it doesn't bother me, especially if it means that it leaves an opportunity for me to benefit by being frugal.

American pretty much dropped all flights out of my home airport in NY, which pretty much meant I was no longer flying them even though they were supposedly the "preferred" airline for my company. Then they decided that all miles were going to start expiring. So since it was now too inconvenient for me to ever be able to book a mileage ticket my miles expired. Too bad. Not flying them anytime soon.

Not flown them since I was stuck at LAX at midnight many moons ago.

But, now they've started the trend, no doubt other carriers will follow suit.

Until I learn to fly on my own (think Icarus) I'm subject to the whims of all airlines if I actually want to fly somewhere.

Oops, make that American.... hehehe

I had the old joke of "Fly United, land in pieces" in my mind...

I can deal with charging for drinks or a meal. I don't mind bringing my own or making plans around that fact. But, I have to bring luggage with me. As a result, this feels like petty nickel and diming and that never sits well. I also think it is a really bad move from a marketing perspective, unless their new tag line is: American, the Marge Schott of Airlines

Ticketmaster is the, well, MASTER, of nickel and diming and I will go to great lengths to avoid buying tickets through them if I can help it.

We recently had a fee structure discussion at my company. Many people are charging all sorts of surcharges (gas, after hours, extra animals, cleaning, etc.) in addition to a flat fee. I think that practice cheapens the quality of the service you are providing. I am a proponent of the charge being clear and upfront.

I'm afraid of the chaos this is going to cause at the ticket counter. It can only make an already slow process that much slower as they will now have to run credit cards for everyone (or make change). Add in the typical non-English speaking passengers that won't know what in the heck is going on with this new charge and that's my issue more than the increase itself.

It means more overhead luggage and the fight to board first to seize the overhead bins. Of course that's pretty bad as it is. The ticket counter slow down that Moonliner brings up is also a certainty. Bah

Must fly foreign carriers

Out of curiosity for what reason are you going to the ticket counter when you fly? Other than when Lani's dad died last year (because we actually had to buy a ticket for the flight we boarded 12 minutes later) I can't remember the last time I went anywhere near a ticket counter when flying.

But there's always lines so I'm always curious what service people need that they're in those lines?

For me, Unaccompanied minor check-in, or if we need to check a bag (ie traviling with the Mrs.) At Dullas the curb side check in is a hit or miss thing. Sometimes they have it sometimes not. However most of the people in the line are there becuase they chekcing bags or making a change to a flight (ie theirs was cancled at the last min)

I'm one of the few people that still check bags - so even with the kiosks (which I love) there's always a delay in having them get to your bags. Usually, I like to travel at a liesurely pace, I don't care to be the first on board or first off the plane as long as I have a good seat (I prefer the window). But I hate standing.

They are also going to charge for tickets purchased via the phone. They are also laying off thousands of people (not specified where), but I suspect this will contribute to hellish airport experiences as well.

Helllooooo Amtrak Frequent..um.... trainrider miles!

Change at Bakersfield, then on to Emeryville (home of Pixar) or Oakland.

I want to take a train trip sometime- never have done it before, and it sounds fun.

we wanted to do the train trip from CA to FLA. One day we will.

Funny you should mention it.

We're putting together one of the Manufacturing the Magic class sessions as a train trip from LA/OC to San Diego to dig up some pre-theme park history.

You'll likely pay at the kiosk, so it really doesn't change how long you have to wait for them to get your bags.

Yes, but that doesn't eliminate the delay Moonliner talked about - foreign or ignorant tourists taking time and resources (i.e. poorly manned check-in station) to figure out whats going on and what they want to do - like transfer the contents of their luggage into shopping bags so they can carry it on.

We'll have to see how it goes. Logistical issues have a way of being worked out if the motivation and cleverness is high enough. Or it could be a disaster.

My bigger concern is the drama that will result when everybody tries to cram as much as they can into carry on, the bins fill and flight attendants start telling people that they have to check the overflow. If that is a process that requires payment it will be a nightmare. If the fee is waived then people will do it on purpose.

But that's another logistical issue which is easy to imagine so it just waits for implementation to see if they resolve it or it does go on to be a disaster.

I wonder how ling it will be before Gloria Allred files a sexual discrimination suit against an airline who charges for checked bags. After all, women have a lot more they "need" to take with them than (straight) men do, ergo this unfairly affects those of the female persuasion.

:rolleyes:

And families. Don't forget them. They tend to travel quite a bit.

So it might be time to get more into the old carry on...

Has anyone tried these:

Space Bag - Travel

I actually use these for travel. I would never get everything in to a carry on bag for a week long vacation, even using these. But, I have to take along more shoes than the normal traveler, and those don't compress.

Yeah, anything more than 3 days and I'm checking a bag. And I'll pay my $15 for the service.

I'm wondering, what if I've already bought a ticket before they announced this new policy? Would they charge the $15? I'd have some words for them if they tried.

How well do the cloths travel being compressed? Do they come out looking like they were wadded into a ball and stepped on by a packaderm?

Well, they don't come out wrinkle free, but they never do anyways.

There's quite a community out there for people trying to travel (for any length of time) with just a single carry on item. It is well out of date but Lani's old Travelite site has a lot of information and links to resources.

_________________

Susan has used them to store things at the house. We've had several of them rip, so we gave up on them. My observation is that while you may save cubic inches, it becomes a very inflexible (semi-rigid) piece which could make it harder to pack.

OK, I finally had to just skip through for the sake of time (damn, this thread got long!), so if this has been answered or I am incorrect and it's been pointed out prior to this, please accept all daily recommended apologies.

They asked us, right after landing back in SLC, to close our windows and open our vents to save on fuel. I keep it that way, anyway, and am an aisle sitter since most flights aren't long enough for me to "hafta go" and the walls give me an opportunity to snooze. It was warm-ish air the entire flight, as well.

I tend to agree with this. On both flights this past week, they were begging people to check their items. I saw all kinds of bags that were (to me) obviously too large in the sense of allowing others carry-on baggage. If they charge to put the first item in, they'll have an empty cargo and people bringing their two allotted carry-ons. The better change, IMO, would be to limit everyone to one carry-on that is over a small purse size, rather than a suitcase and a computer bag (for example).

I see American's point, though - people are more likely to pay the extra charge for the checked baggage after being duped (or maybe they're just stupid, which I'm equally able to believe) into buying the cheaper-looking ticket. Maybe the airline can bag a few more bucks, $15 at a time.

Bleh.

SLC is a Delta hub, I'm crossing my fingers.

I use the space bags. The ones I use at home eventually re-inflate with air and have to be re-vacuumed. They come in handy for some stuff, but I find that unless I jam stuff in there, they don't hold much. And rolling them sucks. I really don't save that much space when compared to just folding and squishing the top down. And it comes out more wrinkled then if I just folded it - since to get the air out you have to roll it.

I've tried Space Bags. They're pretty cool. They work well. But then the bag weighs more because now it has more clothes in it.
:)

What? "Space" bags don't cancel out gravity? What a crock! :D

They offer that option only if you buy the Platinum Space Bags. But I didn't want to pay more for that either.
:D

I use the Ziploc ones. Cheaper, do the same thing.

Southwest Airlines advertises that they DON'T charge for first bag - kudos to them!

If their ticket is $15 more than American or United and I'm not checking a bag, I'll fly American or United.

I didn't care about the luggage charge at all, until it became clear to me two days ago that it's just another way to milk money out of passengers; they squeezed my recent ticket payments from the cow teat of my savings account until the proverbial udder was practically dry AND I'm paying for luggage. Let's just say I'm frustrated with the state of things.

I just don't get it. They're losing money. They need to charge more. Either they raise ticket prices or they charge for other things. Is trying to make enough money to maintain profit "milking money"? It's not like they're making record profits and just looking to pad their overflowing coffers. They're trying to do what they can to keep flying.

I object not so much to the increased cost but rather the extra hassle this is sure to create. For example, The Walt Disney World Magical Express takes your bag at your resort and checks it onto the plane for you. Only now they don't have the system in place to charge a fee on behalf of the airlines so they are scrambling for what to do.

Just raise the darn fairs and stop trying to play whack-a-mole with the fees.

Ultimetly the reality is that prices have already risen enough that consumers are opting to not fly. So the airlines can either A)Keep prices low and go broke, or B)Raise prices to meet cost and go broke because of lowered demand.

The problem is that most buyers react only to "initial prices": most people just see that American has a $200 flight and their competition charges $220. They don't think about the fact that their net cost with American will be higher when they bring luggage.

As I said earlier, this will (hopefully) start allowing we (the consumer) to have choices on how to fly; we have options to fly an airline with all inclusive pricing or price shop for the lowest overall price regardless of what I need to do to get it. Something for everyone.

Perhaps orbitz and travelocity need to add a fields for "Number of bags", "Do you want snacks", "Water", "Pillow/blanket" and "Use the can" along with destination and date.

Well that clears up one issue at least....

I still get to check two free bags on my flight to Orlando next week. Humm, I wonder if I could make a quick $20 by offering to check a couple of bags for some stranger who booked the same flight at the last min.

I get that - I do. That's quite why I didn't have a problem with it initially. Except that they HAVE raised prices. A lot. Typically it costs us about $400/person to fly right around Christmas (the most expensive time of the year, in my six years of experience with this particular round-trip.) This summer it's costing twice that. So they're already charging more - a lot more, 100% more. The luggage charges on top of it is frustrating. The whole affair is frustrating.

This is just simply the classic supply and demand playing itself out. There is a higher demand for flights around Christmas time, so they can charge more for it. The exact same flight in say September is probably cheaper.

As a big fan of free markets, I support this. I may not always like it, and it certainly isn't a perfect system, but it is (IMO) the best one available.

But what LSPE is saying was that the flights she's taking this summer are double what she paid for flights last Christmas - which was peak time.

What Katie said.

But either way, the fact still remains that people are choosing their flights based on one thing and one thing alone - which flight pops up at the top of a "sort by lowest price" search. Every dollar they can remove from that ticket price will increase their sales. They have no choice, any other option means losing money.

Source
There's a possibility the big airlines could be charging for reserving seats, too? I missed that bit of news.

Wow, I'm almost glad I can't afford to fly at all.

I figured someone else would post it, but apparently not.

US Air announced today that they too would start charging for the first bag. They have also announced that they would start charging for non-alcoholic drinks as well ($2.00 each).

Oyyy vey. If you don't pay for those reserved seats, it'll make it so hard on couples or families, who like to try to sit together... on plus-sized people (or, I'll speak specifically, me. I like a window seat so I can lean out of the way of my seat mates without getting smacked by the beverage cart.) And like I've been whining, it's just another expense added to the already exorbitant (and for us, outside of emergency or required trip, basically prohibitive) prices.

Kevin, like they've pointed out, our summer trips are each 2x the cost that our Christmas tickets run, so it's not supply/demand. But it IS airlines losing money, I get that.

Where exactly was he getting fee airline tickets before?

Things may not be included in the price of the ticket anymore, but nothing was ever free.

Personally, I'm still all for a-la-cart. I don't use the crappy pillows or the itchy blankets. I don't read the dumb magazines. If I can get away with a carry on, I do. I don't need curbside check-in, etc. etc. So if this means they don't raise the price of the tickets as much to cover all of that stuff that I'm not using for other people, then I'm all for it.

I can bring my own snacks, and buy my own drinks once I get through security. I don't use their blankets, pillows or read their magazines. I wonder if those air-store magazines actually bring in a profit, or break even.

I have to check my bag though because of the 3-3-3 rule. My make up and hair stuff is to big.

Airlines have to do what they have to do to stay afloat. I'm tempted to buy tickets for my December trip now, before the prices go up. But it's not a 110% sure thing and I'd be losing money if I had to cancel.

I haven't heard about charges for the itchy blankets or other stuff I never use on a flight. All I've heard about is charges for the stuff I do use, like soft drinks and checked baggage.


Go ahead and fool the rubes. If I can ever afford to fly again, I'll be figuring the cost of my food and drink and baggage into the ticket price quoted. But if the point is to have the lowest quoted "ticket" price ... what's the point of not raising those prices to include the drinks and baggage if every other airline is doing the same a la carte thing???

No one's done the blankets and pillow thing yet, I was just taking it to the extreme end.

And yes, once everyone else does the same, it'll be moot. But that's the game that's always played. Once one airline does it, they all have to do it to keep up and stay on a level playing field. Sure, it'd be nice if they could all just kinda agree not to undercut each other like that, but if there's an advantage to be had, there's going to be an airlines that will take it, so they've got no choice.

Oh, I was just joining in the facitiousness about those guaranteed-to-itch-you blankets and car-headrest-sized pillows.

But seeing as it's been monkey-see monkey-do in the airline industry for decades, couldn't American have just done without the month's bump in revenue for checked baggage?

Remember, it's not about revenue from the a-la-cart stuff, it's about making sure they're selling tickets. If they didn't do it, someone else would have, lowering their listed ticket price, cutting into American's (and everyone else's) ticket sales.

They all want that kind of advantage. Baring that, they at least want a level playing field. When they're all including basically the same stuff in the ticket price, they can play with a flight here and a flight there to knock a few bucks off and bump ticket sales by being on the top of that "lowest first" price sort. But if one airline figures out a way to knock $15 off each and every ticket, all of the other's are kinda screwed so they have to follow suit.

At $2.00 for a bottle of water, the chances are that it will still be cheaper to purchase on the plane than to buy from the post-security store.

About the only item that I have an issue with (on the whole a la carte pricing structure) is the (non-alcoholic) drinks. Since they don't have drinking fountains on planes, water (Coke, etc.) is the one item I would consider a necessity on the plane that I am forced to purchase.

I think GD addressed this question pretty succinctly in his post above, but the point is that by splitting out the "additional" items, it allows the airlines to publish (newspaper ads, et. al.) lower air fares. For example, your average person make look at US Air's ad and see that the fare is $59 to Phoenix from LA and see that Southwest is $69 for the same flight. That average person won't think about the fact they will have to spend another $20 for checking baggage, getting a drink, etc. on US Air, thus making the net cost on US Air higher.

Caveat Emptor

One would assume they'll still offer water for free. Flights usually have plenty of non-bottled water in pitchers to serve.

Good point. Bet it tastes gawd-awful too.

I think you missed my point, Kevy. If Southwest charges for drinks and brings their fare down to $69, and American charges for drinks and brings their fare down to $69 and every airline does the same ... where's the "published ticket price" advantage in charging for drinks? And moreover, why bother for the few weeks that charging for drinks is going to give you that purely temporary advantage in published ticket prices?

Seems to me that re-vamping the policy for the few weeks it provides an advantage costs more than the money earned during that few weeks of advantage.


Nickel meet Dime.

Like I said, because if you don't someone else will. It sucks, but it's the reality of any competitive, low-margin market. Once someone smells an advantage, you've got 3 options: Let them take the advantage and get left in the dust, figure out a different way to compete with that advantage, or jump on board to nullify the advantage. But once the barn door's open, there's no going back.

Why?


Besides panic, that is?


If you know that "someone else will" three days after you do, what's the incentive to the the first someone that will???


:confused:



American's advantage is over. Why did they bother?

Every airline knows that the minute they pull a stunt like this, all other airlines will be forced to follow. So why bother in the first place?


I don't agree with the assumption that "if you don't do it, someone else will." There's simply no sound business reason for this decision.

I used Southwest specifically because they are currently advertising that they DON'T (and for the foreseeable future, presumably won't) have the additional up charges.

As I predicted earlier in this thread, I think this will become an advertising game as a way for airlines to differentiate: some will advertise the lowest possible fairs and others will advertise that they don't nickel and dime you to death. US Air (et. al.) are predicting that the ticket-buying masses are stupid and will just go for the lowest fair. Southwest (and I am sure that if not already that there will be others) will give buyers credit for reasonable intelligence and can figure out that they really are the same cost (effectively) to fly with them. They also win with clients (like Moonliner) who just want an all-inclusive price.

Considering SW's considerable success (they are one of very few airlines that has consistently made a profit - most recently because the invested wisely in jet fuel futures), I prognosticate that the SW model will prove to be more successful

Airlines are in the profit business as opposed to the goodwill business. They need to make money in a competitive environment. Which is why this is a sound business decision for thier bottom line.

I believe ultimately that this will have less impact than an announcement that "American Airlines raised their prices today." Silly, but I believe it to be true.

And panic isn't a good enough reason? Every airline is at the panic point. At this point "preventing someone else from taking the advantage" I'm sure looks like excellent business, even if it means the end result is status-quo. I can't imagine any airline exec looking at an obvious way of lowering ticket prices without thinking, "If we don't, someone will."

Honestly, they're doing a terrible job of spinning this. Or, rather, consumers and media are doing a better job of spinning it. The way I'm looking at it, and the way they should be pushing it, is, "Don't pay for services you don't use."

If it weren't for last-minute panic, I would never get anything done :D

Me too.

When I was a kid, a million and six years ago, flying was a luxury. If I'm going to fly anywhere, I'll fly Virgin or JetBlue, or go Business Class. Sometimes, Coach plus all the things you have to pay for equals or almost equals Business Class price anyway.

Otherwise, I'll take Amtrak.

Flying is a luxury again.

You're right, Mr. Delight. Don't Pay for Services You Don't Use would be the proper spin.

Right now, I think they're shooting themselves in the wing by looking like they're going to charge you extra for on-board oxygen.

They hardly had the opportunity as media outlets jumped on it instantly and painted them as evil money grubbers. Not sure why people want airlines to fail, I personally kinda appreciate the service they provide.

Not thus far. $2 for a bigger bottle of water or $2.50 - $3 for a small bottle.

I don't think the public wants them to fail. They just don't want them to succeed by being deceptive.


And I think it's perfectly logical perception to look at "Hey, our tickets are $10 less than our competitor's ... but we charge you $15 to check a bag" ... as an attempt at deception.

My current airline gripe - 12 years and older travel alone. Unaccompanied minors are age 11 or younger. How does a 12 year old navigate an airport? I'd happily pay the charge but it's not an option.

Hopefully they'll give me a pass to get through security with her so I can make sure she's on the right plane. And cross fingers they let Swanie do the same on the other end to pick her up. Apparently it's not official policy but they "usually" let you do it.

Meh, maybe it'll teach a few rubes a lesson to finally see it in those terms.

Well, if I'm going to have to pay for my soft drinks, I'm going back to calling the flight attendants "waiters" and "waitresses".

Not on some of the low-cost Euro carriers.

Also, your $2 in the aiport will usually buy you a larger bottle than what you will get for $2 on the plane. I'm sure they're using this as a way to reduce weight also. They can figure a certain % of passengers won't buy drinks, so they can eliminate having excess that no one will use.

What I hate about this is that it makes the whole business of selecting the best ticket a mess - who's going to go the airline by airline flight by flight break down of the inclusive and exclusive pricing? It's like you need to hire a financial analyst to select a flight for you. I suspect what this will really result in is more brand loyalty as the more you fly a particular airline the more you know if it satisfies your need.

No airline that charges me extra to take along baggage on a journey that requires a flight is EVER going to be satisfying my needs.

!

I agree about brand loyalty. They are also starting to weed out the customers that cost them money.

Remember back in the day when airfares were the same and your chose your airline based upon when and where you needed to travel?

Then they were able to set their own fares, and schedules. Then came the discounted fares. This opened up travel to a whole new segment - the segment who wanted super cheap fares with all services included.

We got spoiled with super cheap gas and super cheap airfares. And now we're paying the price.

A la cart services aren't horrible. The $15 for the bag isn't terrible. Maybe people will stop bringing everything and the kitchen sink with them. As a society we have to much stuff, because we could get what we wanted when we wanted. It was a dangerous trend and now we're seeing the effects of it.

My mom is flying to Canada this year. She isn't being charged for the bags because she has so many flights under her belt. But she doesn't think ahead to bring snacks and then complains about it. But she also got upset with the TSA and missed her flight because she refused to throw away a manicure set (that had 3 banned items in it). So I take her griping with a grain of salt.

And everyone's airfares were the same.

No, that was after they were deregulated. Airlines could set their own fares.

And they all pretty much had the same airfares.

Yep, there was Y and F class.
Then, there was Y, B and F class (Coach, Business, First)
Then there was M, R, X, W, N, T14, you name it, discount fares from Y (coach) and they were all different amounts, depending upon the day of the week, days until travel, etc.

I like Southwest Airlines' commercials:

"Flight Attendant"

"Coins"

Hahah, good, make a marketing advantage of it ... and make all your competitors look like the dickheads they are.

Those are awesome.

Their prices have gone up, but it's fairly simple to know what you're going to pay.

Source
And this is after cutting flights, charging extra for bags etc...
They're struggling alright. Yikes.

This is why I got out of the airline business

And this is why I'm not up in arms about charging for baggage. This isn't the oil companies, shattering profit records and still looking for new ways to bleed our wallets. This is an industry that's barely hanging on trying to find any way they can to remain profitable.

Delta just DOUBLED its 2nd bag fee - now $50. And check out this little gem:

Now that is insane.

My mom, in her infinite wisdom packed 1 big suit case for her trip to Canada this year. She normally packs 2, and since she has so many miles she is one of the customers who doesn't have to pay for the first checked bag on AA. Except she went over the weight limit and ended up paying $50.

Yeah, all these is really eating my craw. I actually posted a bit of a rant about it on my Travelite blog.

Lately hubby and I have noticed the trend (as we've been flying a lot this year) of airlines assigning us seats far apart when tickets are purchased, then offering us the option of sitting together for a fee of $50 each. :rolleyes:

And I love Southwest -- I've always had great service from them even though it's called "no frills."

Ohh this is something I'm not familiar with. Did you buy tickets directly from the airlines? Did you use a third-party vendor like Expedia? Do both you and your husband have frequent flier numbers for those airlines? How far before the flights did you purchase your tickets? Did you have the option to select seats at the time of purchase? Which airlines charged you for changing seats?!?!?!?

lizzie: many airlines allow you to request your seat assignments at the time of purchase. (unless the flight is getting full and they think they might overbook it) See if they charge extra up front

Ryanair in Europe wants to teach you how travel light with one hand luggage thats it . Their first checked bag is like 10euros or something .

Jet Blue to charge $7 for new blanket and pillow that you can take with.

a la cart done right.

I don't mind this one at all. It's an item you can take with you, that is new and can be reused. It's also sanitary, and since I never use them, is one less thing I have to stash somewhere.

And one more thing making waste.

I keep looking at this thread wondering when the title will be fixed.

Wish I could quickly find the commercial... I believe it's from Emirates Airlines, though possibly Saudi. (Probably Emirates, since they sponsored the Breeder's Cup, and I think that's what was on when I caught it.)... but it was beautiful, and reminded me of the idea that flying used to be such a luxury.

It is a luxury airline, and expensive as sh*t, but I really wanted to fly on it. Oh, that travel could be so chic...

Damn it!

Continental to charge $15 for 1st checked bag

I just booked our intra-Europe flights when we're in Europe. For EasyJet they charge you for any checked bags they just make it less obvious. The fee was included in the initial price but on one of the confirmation pages there was a box hidden among the various travel insurance and would I like to buy a house while in Europe and look at these fine Rolex-esque watches we're selling that let me set the number of checked bags to 0 and knocked 18 pounds off the the price.

I'm more annoyed by Virgin's carry on policy. You get one bag per person. Not a bag and a purse or a bag and a camera bag or a bag and a computer bag. One bag. And it can't weight more than 13 pounds. My "mandatory" electronic gear is about 4 pounds total, the gag is a pound itself. So I get about 8 pounds of clothes for a two week trip.

Not a huge problem but I can't figure out why the weight matters much so long as it is within the size limit (and Lani investigated, apparently they don't always weigh your carry on but if they do they are strict about the limit).

Yep. In some places if it doesn't look too obvious, they won't weigh it. I flew Aer Lingus from CDG to Dublin, and they weighed my cabin bag. Luckily I was allowed a personal item too, so I had some things in there that would have added weight to the other bag. One trick is to have a coat with big pockets and stick stuff in there.

It's just so much more stressful now to try and figure out how to whittle everything down to meet requirements. I'd just rather pay the fee and be done with it, but I won't be happy about it.

That's a change. I've traveled on Virgin before and don't remember my carryon being weighed. Of course, I used to carry my heaviest stuff in my carryon since checked stuff always gets weighed on Transatlantic flights.

13 pounds? Hells bells, my purse would make up the majority of that!

i'm a frequent flyer on Ryanair and they never weight my carry on luggage .

i know that Ryanair will charge $10 or $15 for a checked bag .