The next 'big' online community. Your thoughts?
 

After my brief foray into hosting a vBulletin site, I’m now setting my sights higher and looking towards the next generation of online collaboration. Rather than take the traditional skunk-works approach to development where are the details are hidden until the full fledged project gets off the ground I thought I’d do the entire project out in the open and I do mean the entire project. So here is what I have so far.

I have some basic ideas that I think are worth perusing and I’d like to get your feedback on which one (if any) is a better use of time and resources. To start with here are my building blocks:

I have my choice of servers to use. For this project I can pick from several dedicated Windows or Linux servers. Each of them has plenty of disk space (100GB+) and bandwidth to use. Software wise I have been looking at Wiki, Sharepoint Services, PHP, .NET, etc. In essence it’s all fairly open at this point.

Big Idea #1 – The Living Guidebook
Looking at all the DLR/WDW information on this and other sites it is clear there is a plethora of information out there about the parks. Information is updated not weekly or daily but hour by hour. I would like to create a data driven site to gather and coordinate all this information in an easy to search format. For newbies they could go into a virtual park and get information on any specific attraction. This would include all the basic stuff like the back story, hidden mickeys, etc… but would also include any up to the second comments. For the more advanced user, the site would feature options like automated email notifications based on keywords (like subs or ‘soft opening’) a calendar, free photo album storage, room for files, private areas, etc…


Big Idea #2 – It isn’t Disney but…
For lack of a better term, I call idea #2 “The good ol’boys network”. This would be a more private “by invitation only” type of deal. The main idea would be to have a site dedicated to helping each member prosper in the business world. With the wide range of experiences and interests people here have there is some fairly fertile ground for development. Some of the “off the top of my head” features would be things like a capabilities database. A listing of expertise you (or the company you work for) has to offer. Looking for Web design, accounting, a fashion photographer, or help in setting up a corporate library? Check the database. The site would also include discussion forums a document library (sample resumes, business letters, etc.,..) and other work related stuff.


Big Idea #3 - Fill in the blank.
Have a better idea? Write it up and post it here.


Let me know what you think, and if you would like to help with this project.

I vote for #3

#1 is cool, but I'm not sure how you'd distinguish yourself from other Disney boards. Mice Chat and Mouse Pad, have a huge base of CMs, APs, and other folks in the know - granted finding the "up-to-date" info is sometimes a bit of a treasure hunt, but these site usually have the most current info. To consolidate the info, you'd need "trusted" sources and find a way to filter out the rumour and commentary to an acceptable minimum. Perhaps you've got some ideas on how to do that, I'd be a bit dumbfounded myself.

#2 a sort of talent pool is also a cool idea, but in my current situation I probably wouldn't use it. But that just one opinion.

#3 - I think you should spend some time with the vision thing, what would your Really like to do, or what do you find lacking/missing from the current choices. I know when we put LoT together, I really didn't want to create another "Disney" site with an evergrowing population, rather I wanted to create something more intimate to preserve and nurture a community that already existed that seemed to have outgrown or expanded beyond it's Disney origins. If you're looking on building a community, I'd spend some time thinking what would make yours a unique place where you'd like to hang out.

But it seems you're thinking beyong just a message board community, which I also think is a good idea, you just need to name that niche you want to fill.

I like #1. A Disney wiki. I've never fully looked into the whole wiki pheonmenon, so I don't know how it accounts for the abundance of erroneous information, but the little I've heard from people it seems to be a good model. If that's the kind of thing you're talking about, I think it's a great idea.

For planning purposes, I was thinking Wiki for #1 and Sharepoint for #2.

Using wiki you basically get a system where anyone can add or edit just about anything on the site. Most of the time this works great. Of course there are always problems. For example over at www.wikipedia.org some neo-nazi's went in and rewrote much of the holocaust topics. The typical solution is to roll back the changes, block the IP and repeat as necessary.

Mousepod has mentioned in his mousepods about starting a Disney Wiki. He wants to get an online database of all the credits for Disney rides, much like the imdb.

If you'd like to get your web designing hands on that idea, I suggest you drop him a line, as I'm sure he'd appreciate the help. :)

Okay, I yield on #1 being rather unfamiliar with wiki implementation. I'd say go for it since no one's done it yet (that I know of anyway).

For the $0.10 tour on what's a wiki: http://www.wiki.org/wiki.cgi?WhatIsWiki

It's an open community on the web. For example, let us compair a wiki to a vBulletin system. You make a visit to tomorrowland and get acosted by a talking trash can. You are amazed! You take photos, perhaps a bit of video and you can't wait to tell everyone about "Push" the talking trash can.

With a vBulletin site, you get back to your PC and post a message in the DLR forum about push.

With a wiki, you can instantly create your own "push" page on the site. Complete with pictures, soundbites etc... In short you can make the site into whatever you like. Pennysmashers, Goat tricks, Churros, Restaurant reviews, meets, whatever is your thing YOU can add it to the site. No waiting for those pesky admin types to get around to it. No begging them to see things your way.

I've not listened to the mousepods, but he did mention something about it to me over at /^\. His plan seemed to be more historical in nature as opposed to a here and now type of thing. In anycase I'll check back with him and see if there is some synergy there or not.

Wait. You haven't listened to the MousePods? :p

Seriously, though. I've been putting together a wiki for the historical stuff. The reason I went with wiki, is I think it's something that will never be finished. Something that I can keep developing...and adding to.

I would be delighted to join forces and design an über Disney park wiki that would encompass both history and current info/tips. Basically, designing the structure is the hard part. Once it's up, we just give the "edit" password to our favorite geeks and it will grow by itself.

...but if you'd rather fly solo, I respect that, too. Either way, you have my support.

(I was gonna PM you with this, but I'd love feedback from the Loungers, too)

Mousepod...
 

Wait. You haven't listened to the MousePods? :p
Ohh I'm sooo busted... :blush:



Seriously, though. I've been putting together a wiki for the historical stuff. The reason I went with wiki, is I think it's something that will never be finished. Something that I can keep developing...and adding to.

Which wiki are you using? Right now I have a server configured for use but I'm looking at a couple of diffrent wiki pakckages.

Also have you hit wikipedia.org they actaully have a good bit of historical stuff on Disneyland and each attraction.


...but if you'd rather fly solo, I respect that, too. Either way, you have my support.

For me a good part of the fun is learning the new software and getting things up and running. So from that point of view I'll be setting up the server, wiki, etc. pretty much on my own. However this is the web and creating links between sites ain't no big thing. What I would like to do is see if we can come up with a shared look and feel so that we can link back and forth between the Wiki's without the guests ever knowing which site they are really at.



(I was gonna PM you with this, but I'd love feedback from the Loungers, too)

Comments anyone?

Now that I've had some coffee, this sentence causes me some concern. As I see it the point of a Wiki is that ANYONE on the site can create/edit/update content. You visit the site, signup and viola! You can create edit, etc... The only job for admins is to look at new changes and clean up any "issues".

Can you elaborate what you mean by "favorite geeks" having the edit password?

Thanks.

Since we seem to have settled on a Disney Themed Wiki, onto the planning stage:

Any suggestions on a name? (TikiWiki is taken, sorry). I'm thinking DisWiki has a nice ring to it...

As for the site itself. I would like to sculpt a site that can potentially include all aspects of Disney: Parks, Movies, Business, etc. It needs to be friendly for Newbie’s but at the same time serve the needs of the more advanced user. It might even need two "front pages".... The default and a more advanced page accessed via a secret door (complete with creaking wav sound..) off the default page (or just a direct link if you get tired of the wav...).

So for discussion purposes, I'll call the newbie’s "Guests" and the more advanced users "AP's".

From my point of view, an AP would visit the site for two reasons. First to see what's new and second to add/edit some content

I originally wanted to create a Disney Theme Park database a la the IMDB. I realized that having users enter information to a mod before it appeared would be a PITA for everyone, especially me. I figured that wiki would be the way to go. My fear with wiki, though, is that the unlimited freedom would also breed unlimited misinformation, or even malicious posting. So I needed to figure out a harmonious balance. I checked out many wikis for models that appealed to me. I found Leo Laportes radio show wiki, which can only be updated by folks who know the password. He changes the password once a week and announces the password on his radio show every weekend. When I said "favorite geeks," I meant that we could spread the password to various knowledgable message boards. If people can play nice, I'd change the password less frequently or be done with it entirely. Since I'm asking for factual information, especially historical stuff, I don't want to spend hours a week removing incorrect (but well-meaning) "facts". Hope that clears up my intentions - didn't mean to concern you.

Wouldn't a 3rd be to look something up, new or not?

And the first disgruntled off-shoot can be DatWiki. How thoughtful of you to plan ahead! ;)

That sounds fair Mousepod, So where are you at this point project wise?

- Just thninking about it (like me)
- Have an outline
- Started code
- Just waiting to roll it out...

Of course, to clarify my thoughts, I was thinking how an AP would differ from a guest. The primary funciton for a guest would be to "look things up".

Moonliner,

I'm working on the outline. I've installed pmwiki on my server, but I haven't started setting it up yet.

For me, the structure is key (for obvious reasons - most of which you are already sketching out here).

I'll contact you privately so we can brainstorm.

[This is very exciting!]

I've taken a quick look at pmWiki. It looks good. I'll see if I can get it loaded on something here. My initial impression is that it does not seem to use a database, so I'm assuming it stores data as text on the drive?

I think that some of the concern here can be self-correcting. I'm thinking of when misinformation is posted on a messageboard, other more knowledgeable geeks come to the rescue, posting corrections. If you did indeed keep editing ability among those with real info, especially for the first few months, it wouldn't be a problem.

Or, you could assign research on a specific ride to specific people, and then allow changes as they become obviously needed.

This just popped into my head. Just say I were assigned to design a page on the Haunted Mansion. I'd pull out all the books I could find and set that up. Then, once posted, instead of allowing any joe schmoe to touch it, you could have a message board style thread attached to it. If people had an issue with something that was or wasn't there, they could post about it, and the person assigned could check facts and make updates as needed. If we each had just one ride to set up, it would mean a lot less work for all.

Of course you guys are working privately, which is cool, I'm just thinking out loud.

Pssst! Hey Mousepod, looks like we have our first draftie!


I can't speak for MP, but I plan to keep 99% of this process right here for now. The only "private" thing I can think of right now would be the technical details of linking servers to form a mega-wiki.

Let's run with that... Given the freedom to do so, how would you design a HM page? What type of info would you put on the page? What features would you like? I'm thinking that a seperate message thread for each attraction would be overkill.

I'm with you. We should connect privately for the technical junk. The LoT is the perfect place to work out the rest of the details.

Initial thoughts on an "attraction" object:

History button - Link to MP's place
(do you plan to include the attraction backstories?)

Main photo that is a link to more photos

Tips - ie The goat trick

Special experiences - Potc ride with 20 people in floral prints...

101/Rehab info

News - The snake is working, for the moment...

General comments.

Disclaimer - I know very little about Wikis, and my ideas are based more on the capabilities of the imdb and blogs.

What I"m thinking regarding "message threads" is much like imdb. At the bottom of each movie page there's a mini-message board. It features the top few threads on the topic. If you want older threads, you click a link to see the full message board. It doesn't have to be as full featured as a board like this - it could be just for notes and corrections, for perusal by the Attraction Administrator. :)

Ok, so if I get this right, you mean that mousepod would have a seperate site with his historical attraction info? The basic credits for an attraction really wouldn't take up a huge amount of space (at least, the classic ones - I'm sure we can get much more info on who did what for the newer attractions). But I can see the need to link to more detailed info. Don't know where the info should be hosted, but I'm definitely thinking imdb style.

I'm thinking - list of Imagineers involved and a one-liner of what they contributed, ie, Rolly Crump - Conceptual Artwork. "Rolly Crump" would be a link to the Rolly Crump page, listing all the stuff he did for Disney with links to their pages, as well as photos and a bio. "Conceptual Artwork" would link you to pictures of the artwork plus perhaps a pic of him working on it. A short blurb (or perhaps a long one) could talk about his contributions to the Mansion project, where you can see his influence in the attraction, what wasn't included and why. If we have dates and such, include them.
I would. They can get quite detailed, so definitely a link, with perhaps a one-liner visible on the page. I'm thinking of Lost Boy's Jungle Cruise info from a while ago...whew, quite a read!
Cool. That's another thing that would need to be maintained. Updates when the attraction is changed (happens more often than one might think), archives for older pictures chronicling changes. Users could supply pics of other angles etc, but that'd have to be watched, since we don't want ridiculous amounts of pics for users to wade through.
This is something I hadn't thought of. Cool concept. This, I woudn't mind opening up for user interface, ala hiddenmickeys.org. We could even have a rating system for it like hiddenmickeys kinda does with it's "Confirmed" set-up. If a suggestion sucks, perhaps enough bad ratings could make it disappear?
A special trip report section would be fun, with it's own pics section perhaps. This could get quite lengthy. Do we want to concentrate on concise information or the community aspect? This is definitely more a community thing, which would be a cool thing to link to.
Definite must. I envision this near the top of the page: "Status: Open" or "Status: Under Rehab until 7/17/2005" or "Status: Closed Permanently as of 9/8/1998". This would also be a link to a calendar of future rehabs.
A quick, easy to update blog-style set-up so that the Attraction Admin can put up the latest news is a great idea.

I volunteer to help. :) I think you could easily get one person to sign up for each attraction, and if not, well hey, we'll see how tough the workload is and perhaps we could each take on a couple of them. I say start small for beta testing (just a few attractions at first) and grow it as you learn what the heck this will entail.

Great input, CP!
Now that this is becoming a joint effort, I'm back to the original idea of an imdb-style site for the historical stuff. I was thinking wiki (MikiWiki?, HWOE (Happiest Wiki on Earth)?) for the dynamic element. It sounds like Moonliner's part could be that, with the historical stuff being more of a static, link-filled db.
Now all I need is time. I have to edit a wild interview for MousePod #9 sometime in the next 48 hours...

Wiki Example
 

Here is a good wiki example from www.wikipedia.org.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunted_Mansion

Notice how just about everything is cross linked. That is a central feature of a Wiki....

A DisWiki would be awesome. If there is anything I can do please let me know.

I have to say my experience with SharePoint has been negative. Perhaps it's the way ours has developed but I find it hard to navigate and cluttered.

Coldn't you wait a few more days to post this? That way the thread would have been a full one year old when it was resurrected ;)

I saw a spider looking at it and thought it was a new thread.

:( I'll go stand in the corner and bow my head in shame. :(






:p

Goddamn virtual spiders stealing all my ideas....

They could at least wait until I'm asleep like the real ones before they invade my mind.

Okay, now I know I've been working too hard. For a moment I seriously wondered how the hell you can tell where a spider is looking, given that their little heads are so small.

And no, the "why would an actual eight-legged spider be reading LoT?" thought didn't register.

And neither did the thought "why is BTD looking at a spider looking at LoT instead of running away screaming?" :p

Aw, now I'm sad that we still don't have a wiki. What happened you guys?

I had no idea this was a dead thread. Show's how often I even look at this techgeek forum.


What ever happened to the idea? It sounded fun. (I was especially tickled by the thought of it being called MikiWiki, heheheh.)

I was sidetracked with other projects. I still think it's a great idea.

Stay tuned.

I think BTD saw SOMEONE looking at this thread, not a spider...

I'll post more when I have more to post.

That would explain why I didn't run away screaming SPIDER!