Olympic Opening Ceremony
 

We liked it !!

LOVED the huge LED (we think) screen in the floor !

And.... it's now 1:10am and we've finally seen Australia enter.... third last ! (bloody hell.)

Fun, colourful and a good start.

...oh, and if in doubt of the country, just play scotland the brave on the bagpipes anyway...... :D

Love StoatnBear


PS: 630 athletes for China.... there should be a cap.

Is it on for us tonight?

No offense meant, but I think there should be a cap on Olympics threads.


Do we really need a separate one for the Opening Ceremonies? I was already reading about them in the regular Olympics thread ... and I assume when they air tonight in the States, it will get confusing having two VERY ACTIVE threads on the same exact subject.


If there's no objection from Down Under, can we please merge the two?

Coverage starts at 7:30PM

Well can we at least have a separate "Matthew Mitcham, the gay diver from Australia is FRACKING HOT" thread???

I had no idea who that boy was yesterday, but I opened my mail and there he was, shirtless and beautiful, right on the front cover. Only two non-swim pics inside the mag of him but with one in a seductive alone at the pool pose and the other sticking out his tongue piercing. I am in loooooooooove.

I just myspace friends added him!

http://www.ichatgay.com/img_blog/matthew_mitcham.jpg

The Advocate cover pic is a better pic of his face though:



Oh, and here's the ones from the inside:





I feel like such a :gnome: but I really would love to :argghh: his :tiki:

:evil:

You want to pirate his tiki?

Yes.
I'd pirate his tiki, too.
:D

Ok, yes, a separate thread for Mr. Mitcham, whose "Pirate" I'd like to "Tiki" a bit myself.


But .... um, need to know before 8pm PDT ... separate Olympics Opening Ceremony thread? Or discuss the majesty and inanity of the Opening Ceremony in the regular Olympics Thread?


Do we also post our observations and reactions on Twitter?

Eh... leave the separate thread. It will be moot in a couple of days anyways

Are you asking for advice? The internet is still a free place, you know...

As advice: I'd say that nothing spoiler like in Twitter since it is difficult to filter.

No ... MUST I RESORT TO SMILEYS?


It was snark. I think a separate Opening Ceremony thread is overkill, but it's no big deal. I was making a comparison to multiple outlets on the internet for our thoughts.


nevermind.

Yes, I know your twitter comment was snark. My avoid twitter spoilers was not, it seems to be going around today with people getting spoiled about things via twitter text messages.

[And I'm pretty sure CP's post was snarking back at you. But maybe I'm wrong.]

Umm back on topic:

I can't decide whether I like him better with his hair wet or dry. :tiki:

Wet definitely.







(or, wait, is that what he makes me?)

I started the thread so that people who only watch the opening and closing ceremonies can find dicussion about those ceremonies without wading through the rest of the Olympic guff in a (soon to be) very long thread.

also, I wanted to piss you off that we got to see it before you. So there. Neener. :p

ooooh, you did that alright. Ugh, 17 hour head start. NOT FAIR!!!

The "Moveable Type" segment of the opening was just Gobsmacking.

We had our chins sitting in our lap the whole time !!! (no, not each other's lap...)

ok, ok, no spoilers please. Heheh, not till 10 seconds before each element happens ... which is when NBC commentators will spoil them. ;)

The "Moveable Type" segment was totally awesome...and has a clever illusion at the end:



Love and hugs,

The Stoat XXX.

Here's a spoiler:
How do you keep a Curmudgeon in suspense ?

They should create a separate thread just about the ceremony so that spoilers can be posted.

On a serious note, can someone please TIVO the ceremony for us, and burn it to Disk? We missed the first hour (including the lighting of the caldron). Many many thanks.

(PS: TIVO's are only new here and cost upward of $800.00 at present)

:snap:

Wait till Christmas. They were practically GIVING them away last year (because of course you still have to pay for service)

Well, the drumming thing was pretty sweet. Precision on a huge scale.

Reminds me a little bit of Blue Man Group, heheh.

ok, did i just make a big goof assuming it started at 8, or did it kinda start with the thousands-of-drummers thing?

or did i miss a bunch?

I hope your recording this for us on your TIVO...

BTW: Don't bother burning it to disk, just give us your TIVO when we arrive, seeing as they're so cheap over there.. ;)

No, it started with this thread. :p ;) :evil:

One thing ya gotta say for a totalitarian regime... they can do bitchin' city-wide fireworks

That's cos they invented them !

Well, now, ya have a point there. But seriously... you'd never be able to pull off "Footsteps of History" across LA.

Jeebus, Bob, let us discover some things for ourselves! (re: the LED size comment)

The drummers were the beginning.

Am i the only one who likes the parade of cuties ....er, parade of nations?

It started at 7:30 but it was preshow, pretty much. Actually, it was really good. Well shot, good commentator moments.

Lashes,

WHAT were those crazy Aussies wearing?!? :eek:

swanie

If the world consists of you and me, then yes. Otherwise, I can't speak definitively.

I thought the opening ceremony was tremendous.
The drummers were so very cool.
The ink dancers, cool, too.
My favorite bit was the wood block section. Such a cool reveal at the end.

Sarah Brightman? Bleh! Can't stand her. She's as vacant as the men's restroom at Lilith Fair.

Parade of nations was cool. I stopped watching after American Samoa. Tired. Going to bed soon.

Curious about the American outfits. Not a lot of red showing. Was it an anti-China statement or just a contrast to the overwhelming amount of red present anyway? Only Ralph Lauren knows for sure...

ETA: Those Chinese cheerleader girls that were dancing throughout the parade of nations! Poor things! Hours and hours of dancing... I think a few of them were still dancing in their sleep whenever they got to bed...

Block dancers - I wondered how the dancers stayed in sync when they couldn't see each other. Truly amazing. One of the best opening ceremonies ever.
:)

I see the parade of bouncing boobs. The asian chicks are jumpin!

Nothing Green and Gold, I can tell you !! There was an ad where you could buy one for yourself only $3999.00 :rolleyes: Bugger that.

See the Stoat Quote below....
Glad y'all got to see it - so who TIVO'd it for us ? :cheers:

Satin... lots and lots of satin.

Yeah, but I'll bet after they'd shuffled on the spot for the best part of two hours they were well and truly over it - by the time Ashtraya entered the arena, it's rumored that the 2000+ white patent booted girls were humming bars from Nancy Sinatra's song:

"These boots were made for wokking,
...and that's just what they'll do.
On this day these boots
are gonna be a leather stew".

And that's how they fuelled the big torch at the end.

:cool:

Dear JW,

Actually, it was KevLar, named in honour of our latest PrimeMinistdent, Kevin Rudd.

The uniforms were supposed to be a shade of inky-blue, but the day before the Ceremony, a chinese laundry worker, distracted by strains of "I Enjoy being a Girl" from the Flower Drum Song put bleach in the wash. He apparently struggled for hours to drag the tops from the bubbling vat - but by then the colour had run harder than Obama.

We shouldn't complain though - in this political climate, the guys in those black body suits rolling around on the large sheet on paper left an awefully big carbon footprint.

Love and hugs,

The Stoat XXX.

im not complaining...


it was brilliant, you know the sad part.. i didn't watch it at 7:30pm, i watched it the 2nd time through from the 2:30 to 7am est showing. but it was amazing!

So i fell asleep before they lit the cauldron ... did they do anything groovy to light it?


Nothing will beat the time (Barcelona?) they lit it by shooting a flaming arrow!


Speaking of which, I think these opening cememonies paled in comparison to the last ones in Athens. But I still enjoyed many elements.

Moveable type was great. I was even more fascinated, though, with how the Tai Chi people kept in formation than how the Block People did. Either way, 2008 of everybody for every bit of business was a nice touch.

I loved the big LCD screen and the huge scrim that wraps around the rim of the Bird's Nest. And the globe thingy at the end was fantastic... the way the people on it would move around ... just tremendous.


Overall, though, it gave me a huge sense of meh. I think it's hard for these things not to come off like a disconnected pageant of spectacle ... and there's nothing wrong with that. But a few have seemed more integrated to me (Summer in Athens, Winter in Albertville, for examples), and the bar has been set a little higher than just random bigness.




But I was entertained throughout. The commentators, for the first time in history, were not intent on spoiling the upcoming 10 seconds ... and for that reason alone, it was the best network TV Opening Ceremonies broadcast EveR.



The parade of nations was fun ... while I lasted. Though uniforms were a little boring this year. African nations were reliable for primitive costume. Hungary had the best by far, with their 40's stylings and outrageous print dresses for the ladies. The rest of the world? DULLSVILLE.


Fortunately, cutie pies come in every kind of apparel and from every nation on Earth. Though I fell asleep soon after the U.S. ... I feel confident in pointing out that the most gorgeous athelete dude in the world is from the Maldives. Oh ma gawd. Hottie.



Aaaaaaand ... that's it for me. I doubt I'll watch much of the actual games. I never have the TV on. I might watch some YouTube clips here and there.

If you liked the globe bit, you'd have liked the lighting. The last runner was on wires, and they launched him up into the sky, over to one of the top walls running around the stadium (near the scrim), then all of a sudden, he pops one side of his wires, dropping him into an angle, and he proceeds to "run" around the top edge of the stadium sideways until he gets to the cauldron, which was mounted into place at some point during the show, and he touched the torch to like a pipe thing which ran to the cauldron, I presume they used gunpowder for this, but the flame zipped across the pipe, twisted around the twisty part of the cauldron, then lit the flame.

No disrespect to the gentleman known as Stoat, but I disagree. You could see as they moved up and down that they were human, not mechanical movements. Just like the drumming sequence and the Tai Chi army, they had their own personal movements down to the milisecond. The other sequences were just as impressive without the boxes. They didn't need to know their surroundings, they just knew "jump fast, crouch for 5 seconds, and stand, and slowly sink...." A perfect allegory for the Chinese nation. Together, they can do amazing (almost frightening!) things.

I was blown away by these ceremonies. There was something so earnest about it, something that other Olympic openings have attempted to emulate but didn't quite hit. This is real for these people. They are coming into their own.

And did you see all those fireworks??? Just the smileys alone were insane. The biggest LCD ever just about killed us.


ETA - yeah, the torch lighting was awesomeness.

What an absolutely wonderful opening ceremony! I only have one meh moment - it involved Sarah Brightman (who looks rather creepy these days and need a trim). The torch lighting was exceptional. The use of the scrim fro projections during the festivities added so much to the show. I was amazed at the perfect circle the tai chi people could maintain and the block segment was fascinating and, the pyro was not to be beat. Overall, it was among the best. (Lillihammer was my favorite and Atlanta the absolute worst.)

I'm actually looking forward to watching some swimming and diving - and to hear the name Pieter van den Hoogenband said out loud. Gymnastics are another sport I tend to watch, but we'll see what I have time for.

iSm: try this link
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/sha...D_OCB_HL_L1621

My only complaint is that the music during the March of Nations was boring and repetitive. I mean... 20 repeats of the same bagpipe number? Come on... why?

I loved the footsteps - makes me wonder what the ceremonies looked like from the international space station.

It was exactly what the opening ceremonies of the games should be - a nation's chance to put itself on parade, pulling together all its technological and theatrical prowess to put on the ultimate piece of entertainment, while at the same time evoking a little national pride and speaking towards understanding between all nations.

In terms of Nation On Parade, I don't think China could possibly have done any better. I'm not sure anyone could. (Helps to have thousands of years of history, of course)

Waaaa, won't play. Bah.

Yeah, bagpipes were a severely poor choice. Yikes.

My favorite opening ceremony ever. Beautiful, powerful, meaningful. Absolutely brilliant use of LED technology.

Favorite moments include the footprints (yeah, they'd BETTER have the most awesome fireworks ever), drums, the mountain and water painting, movable type of course, horizontal runners.

I'm still a little perturbed that Bush is there, but I think the ceremony and NBC did a pretty good job of framing the argument in favor of this kind of engagement. There's a lot of fiction, optimism, glossing over, but they presented the idea that the people really do want to be part of the world and that the totalitarian rule that keeps them isolated understands this, wants to foster it, but is just doing so slowly, cautiously and methodically, perhaps with a few stumble along the way. It's what the world better hope really is happening. And seeing that message being presented by them on such an epic scale gives some credence to that hope I suppose.

I still think Bush could have made the point without showing up. He's the first sitting President to do so. He didn't have to be there, he's not expected to be there. It's no disaster that he was, but it would have been a better choice, imo.

He didn't much look like he wanted to be there. The cameras caught him looking bored more than a few times. (Laura, to her credit, always looked poised and attentive when the same cameras caught her husband nodding off or looking at his watch.)


I hope I didn't come off too critical about the ceremonies. Though they didn't quite "gel" for me as very few of the very best did, they were nonetheless completely awesome and I enjoyed everything (except whatsherface, the singer more vacant than the men's room at Lilith Fair).


But, yeah, great pyrotechnics from China? Yes, but expected. Hoards of lockstep-unison-human performers in, oh, China??? Yeah, fantastic, but ... ya know, China.


And don't get me wrong. I LOVED the elements that screamed CHINA. As many of them did. That they screamed China and were also madly entertaining was fantastic.

And when was the last time you saw goose stepping military? Man, that takes you back.

I have it TIVOed until tomorrow night. If someone can tell me how to burn it to DVD, and I have the proper configuration, I will.

TIVO is on my network.
Does not have a DVD burner.
Computer does.
Computer is on the network.

Probably going to have to download Silverlight

I love the parade of nations. They all look so proud, and happy.

We loved the ceremonies as well. We watched the entire show, all while nibbling on pot stickers, mu shu pork, chow mein and mixed veggies with "beijing soy sauce" (thanks, Trader Joe's!) I tried to find some Tsing Tao beer but was unable to, so we settled for sake and Sapporo. :)

The entire spectacle was amazing, for all the reasons already stated. Although, I must say, that we couldn't help but being a little unsettled by some of the sections that accentuated the military. Still, those were few and far between, but just enough to notice and comment on. Overall, I though they proved themselves to be gracious and welcoming hosts (all of the political backstory aside.)

The footprints, the lighting of the torch, the moving boxes, the LED technology, and mostly, the happy faces of the athletes from around the world as they anxiously await the opportunity to prove themselves - all of it combined to create a wonderful opening ceremony and I'm glad that we watched it in its entirety.

OMG! I forgot about Bush! He was one of the most entertaining parts of the whole night! We all almost fell out of our chairs when he looked at his watch.

When they showed him to his seat, he looked confused a first, and then for a fleeting second, angry. I don't think he was happy being stuck in the regular stadium seats! (Although he was in pretty lofty company.)

At one point, they showed one of the other world leaders (I forgot who). Sitting next to him was a woman (Whom I presume was his wife) who was bopping to the music. She looked like she was having a marvelous time, and I liked her immediately!

Oh yeah, every time they showed Bush, he was doing something that indicated he wasn't all that involved in what he was watching. Laura, on the other hand, seemed to be loving it. The watch thing was hilarious.

We hadn't intended to watch the ceremonies -- in fact I'd forgotten about them completely! :blush: But last night we went out to eat because our place was just too hot to bear cooking, and our restaurant had two tiny tvs in the bar area. While it's not a sports bar, usually a game of some sort is on those tvs, with the sound off. Last night though the bartender turned up the sound, turned OFF the house music, and shouted across the restaurant "it's the Olympics, people!" At first we all laughed nervously, because, well, it was pretty odd for this restaurant...

But as the ceremonies unfolded the restaurant quieted and every head was turned to those small tvs. As folks finished their meals, they started clustering in the bar area to watch (us included). It was such a swanky experience to watch that stunning spectacle with strangers...there was spontaneous applause, some weeping, and marvelous quips were exchanged. The parade of nations was treated as a fashion competition with scores shouted out, which sounds far more disrespectful than it was (we also booed every time they cut to a commercial). We had no intention of staying until the bitter end, but we nearly did! We rushed home right after the US team marched to catch the rest of it.

Wow! I'm so glad I didn't miss this after all -- easily my favorite opening ceremony ever.

(my only complaint -- did anyone see dragons? did I miss dragons? Or could they be saving dragons for the closing ceremonies...)

Any idea who did the animation for the beautiful under sea orchestra commercial (I believe it was for United)?

Speaking of dragons, I liked the cool GE(?) dragon commercial.

Other commercials I liked: Audi with the changing rooms/dogs/Mercedes; Niki film clip series.

Ones I'm already tired of: Metro PCS,; new Coke Can

Heh, we JUST remembered to look them up. They go by "The Blackheart Gang." 3 South African guys, but one ("Wormstrom") does music so he obviously wasn't involved for United. The are Ree Treweek and James Hendrikz the two that produced it.

Check out The Tale of How. Awesome.

Yes, totally dug that one.

OK, we are currently watching thanks to TW DVR (which is reminding me how much I HATE this DVR). I will hook up our DVD recorder to the DVR. However, I am concerned how/if it will record to the DVD since it was recorded in HD.

I was amused as they were talking about how one country was coming in and the commentators mentioned that their country only has "about 20,000 more people than the 70,000 people in the stadium." As they were finishing that, another county comes in with a national population of just sixty-something thousand. ETA: Monaco has just 33,000 people: less than half of what was in the stadium.

We were completely stunned by the presentation of the entire opening ceremony. Just absolutely amazing. Although, until somebody can convince me otherwise, I will still believe that the up/down movements of the blocks was mechanized. It was still too perfect an the movements too mechanical to be human-driven. Also, I was watching during the performance and there were times you could see under the "blocks" and there were no feet visible.

Also, I loved the simplistic but powerful concept of having all the athletes walking across the color blocks to colorize the art-piece - LOVED it!

She looked downright creepy in the opening shot - like an android. :eek:

Hilarious Kismet moment: Just as I was deleting this part of the quote, they said his name during the opening ceremonies!

I do like the coke commercial where the [whatever those things are] build a plastic drink straw version of the bird's nest.

But based on what? The US has almost as many athletes but only 1/4 the population.

ETA:
Australia has 450 athletes out of 20.6 million people: almost 22 athletes for every million in population
China has 639 athletes out of 1.3 Billion people: less than a half of an athlete for every million in population

No idea, but wasn't that just stunning!?! Loved it. Thanks for bringing it up ... I'd forgotten. (ETA: i see GD researched this already.)

Yep, dragon commercial was good, too. Wonder why it didn't make me wonder why no opening ceremonies dragons???

Not enuf acrobatics either, come to think of it. C'mon guys! China!!

Research credit goes to CP.

So, Kevy, you're accusing China, the Olympic committee, and NBC of flat out lying?

There is no doubt in my mind that it was entirely humanly possible. All any individual had to do was know their own routine and timing. It couldn't be more simple. The movements probably were calculated programatically. All you need is a printout of exactly when to go up, when to go down, and how far each time for each individual piece. It's the most simple choreography imaginable. Stick a dude in a box with a metronome programmed to the rhythm of his individual part for a few months and voila, perfectly precise individual component. Repeat a couple thousand times.

Also, did anyone else have volume (sound) issues? The sound level of the program was very low yet many (but not all) of the commercials were at normal volume. Which meant that since we had the volume up to hear the program, when we caught clips of commercials, we went deaf.

Yes, that's the world for it.



When's the movie? (Tale of the DoDo??)






(Oh, and I want to add that the movement of the Printing Blocks was obviously human from the get-go, and the reveal at the end was simply a curtain call and not some kind of surprise twist.)

Makes me wish Clive Barker had followed through and finished the Abarat. It would be a PERFECT pairing.

I saw a review that described them as the love child of Hieronymus Bosch and Terry Gilliam. :D

I went back and reread CP's post and didn't see anything that says that there was an official statement about this. I believe that at least the flowers at the end of it were done by humans.

To the best of my recollection, I do not recall the announcers saying that "yes, that was human power moving the blocks up and down.

I will happily acknowledge the human achievement of that segment when someone can provide reliable/believable documentation/source that humans moved the blocks up and down.

Well, you're the one who recorded it. Go back and fiind it, because the commentators did indeed make such a comment.

I'll never understand it, but this is a pattern in ALL television, and is accentuated for big events. So ubiquitous that it's clearly purposeful. Must sell more happy meals to mix the ads louder. Pretty basic marketing principle...people respond to loud noises.

And shiny things.

I am not sure how much (if any) embellishment there was to the story of the boy walking with Tao Ming. But regardless, it caused Susan and I to well up a bit.

In case you missed it, the story was that the boy lost 20 out of his 30 classmates in the earthquake in May. After he was able to free himself, he went back to help extract his classmates. When asked why he did that, he replied simply, "because I am the room leader."

I plan to - we are still watching (they just lit the cauldron)

Okay, I acquiesce. We went back and watched the segment again. The announcers did say that it was human powered.

I am still not sure how they could go from the blocks being flat on the ground to what appears to being over six feet (or so) tall - I guess they had the platform lowered a bit. Some of the movement of the blocks still appears mechanical to me (rather than just human movement). But the people were under there providing the movement.

I'm assuming the blocks were not free-moving, just the necessary up and down. And yes, they would have to be on a lower level.

There had to have been some stops built in (natch).

I saw nothing that would necessitate mechanical stops. But I've only watched once.

Full top extension. But that is probably a given.

I was sure I saw legs before the big reveal...but now that I've recorded it I'll have to watch again to see if that was my imagination or not...

Just re-watched it. You can definitely see some sort of frame underneath each one when they went to full extension, but I don't think there was ever an angle shown where you could say one way or another whether there were legs/feet.

And I wouldn't assume stops at full extension. Among other things, on some of the close shots you could see that they weren't perfectly aligned when fully extended, and were even wobbling a bit.

Is this the first time the US President has come to an Olympic Opening ? Truthfully, I never knew that !

Well, if you put it like that... but it's still (and always has been, don't get me wrong) a little one-sided that some countries can flood the events with lots of athletes, and others only a few. Makes it seem like a numbers game. "Looky! We won most medals" - "Yeah, but you had 5 times the athletes of anyone else" the only way to avoid this would be to average the scores, to prevent it being sheerly a numbers game. (ie: country A has 1 swimmer, and country B has 5, Country A's athlete times at 3:27 and country B's athletes average out at 3:26 therefore they get Silver. (I'm expecting lots of disagreement over this) :D

...and we ALL know that the Media (or government) never lies at all..... :rolleyes: (I don't believe the olympic committee made a claim one way or the other)

I still think the velocity of the blocks was too smooth to be human. I agree with Kevy that the Flowers were most definately human powered. The only way to know for sure will be a BTS video showing underneath the blocks during the segment.

...hmmm...until proven otherwise, I'm going for Human Powered, Computer Assisted. An L.E.D strip (as in a graphic equaliser) would provide all of the visual queues needed, including height and speed.

Sorry, NBC explicitly said, "No computers, no hydrolics," etc. 100% human powered. All of these people have seen the dress rehearsals. There would have to be a conscious decision to deceive to make that statement and it be computer controlled. And I just don't understand what motivation you're ascribing them to create that fabrication.

Bush is the first sitting US President to attend an Olympics not held in a US city.

That I might believe. But I'm also willing to believe that they would have TRAINED with that (note my "stick a guy in a box with a metronome) but enough rigorous training and it becomes unnecessary.

Well, I'll have to concede that Chinese people have incredible precision (which is the point that they would be trying to make if they were lying) but as it's obviously true, then they've proved themselves to be way more precise than most. It's all about National image, I guess.

....however if anyone got sick on the night, it would be calamitous to say the least, unless you had an understudy for every single position on the grid. This leads me to think that, at the very least, Stoat's right about there being some kind of visual aid assisting them on the night.

Family Guy portrays that perfectly.

Human powered doesn't mean "not computer assisted".

I missed the opening ceremonies, I was busy at a re-education center.

I only watched about 18 minutes of the ceremony (and was incredibly bored by even that so I'm completely in Bush's camp if he had to sit there for all 5 hours) but I believe Costas mentioned that as host country China automatically earns competition spots in every single event at the games without having to qualify.

And what does "No computers" mean in Australia?

"No computers" in Australia means the same as "No rigged vote counts in the USA", "Fast food is good for you", "Bush is Great" and "The Media always tells the truth".

...and since this (healthy) debate continues, how about the question of under-studies? Just a small percent of absent performers would have spelled "disaster" on the old mega-typeroony.

Hugs,

The Stoat XXX.

I just don't get why you think they'd be deceiving us on this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight (Post 231427) I just don't get why you think they'd be deceiving us on this?

Dear GD,

Well, that's a good question, and warrants a considered answer, which goes like this:

Before I start, I am not against good show-person-ship.

The Olympic Games present a venue for which hosting countries spend a $hitload of bucks (more than your and my next pooty upgrade) to say how great they are to the rest of the non-tree dwellers.

In this particular case, after several displays of demonstrated self-control in the context of state "singularity", in which each individual can see (and therefore synch with the other), how better to sell the notion of national precision (aka prowess) by inferring that a large team of individuals could do the seemingly impossible?

First I considered the sheer grunt of the technology used up to the point in question…for example a pedestrian-capable screen that could occupy a large area of the arena just for starters. So money, technology and person-power were not a limitation.

Secondly I considered the risk of failure. Now that’s something one doesn’t want to fvck up on a World stage. How would I reduce the risk? One option includes filming a perfect rehearsal first and playing it back (not an option here, but I can think of at least one event that lent its self to this). Another option is to reduce the human element to sheer grunt power. I’d do this because there is no way I could train performers to trade places with each other…they’d have to learn a whole new script of movement and timing…and we aren’t talking Waltz Time on a metronome, we are talking variable time. Nah – too risky on a World stage.

So I would want a system in which I could replace a ‘unit’ with another if I had to at the last minute…after all, the apparent mechanism would be hidden until the last minute – and no-one would know.

Thirdly, if I worked for a humble kind of country (that is, one with nothing to prove to the rest of the World), I’d probably not reveal how it was done, somewhat like a Magician doesn’t reveal the machinations of their best tricks. China is not renowned for its Civil Rights, so I’m disinclined to believe it revealed the performers for their own benefit, but rather to add credibility to ‘the larger picture’.

There is no crime in performing a great illusion. I loved it – and wish I had thought of it first…but there is no way I wouldn’t use technology to assist if I could get way with it…and I think it’s easier to support the notion that China did than it didn’t.

Many hugs,

The Stoat.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kather..._b_117913.html

Not sure if that link was posted. Totally agree with that article.

While the ceremony was very visually impressive (jaw-dropping, more like), it was completely hypocritical BS on China's part.

And what NBC did in covering it was really unforgivable here. The commentary ranged from completely innane (really, they talked about Big Macs?!?! stfu) to READING COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA. China (and NBC) obviously take us for complete idiots.

Great observation ABG !!!

So they used technology when they could see and hear each other...and then dispensed with it when they couldn't ???

Hmmmm...talk about doing it the hard way. Not.


I'm still impressed at the concept though.

We watched the re-broadcast (that we'd recorded) last night and were profoundly disappointed at the massive editing that had taken place. :(

Then how do you account for the other aspects using thousands of people, like the drummers, the Tai Quan Do performers? They also had specific-to-the-second instructions and they carried it out like a CG crowd made flesh. I'd say the Tai Quan Do part was far more complicated than guys in a box jumping up and down.

Hey now! It isn't worth so much angst. It probably didn't even happen in realspace. Look how well they faked the moon landing and what would be possible with modern computer processing power.

Do you really think China would take any chances of somethign being less than perfect? No. The entire thing was digital. And no, that doesn't mean that the NBC commentators were in on it. They just didn't know that they were looking through windows that actually were computer screens adding all the show elements to an otherwise empty stadium.

wow- such strong reactions.

I thought it was beautiful.

I did not think Bush looked bored- he was sitting in the same area as every other dignitary (Putin, Japan's prime minister etc) he was watching through binoculars- and talking to Putin- gosh, maybe about the incredibly bloody war that has broken out in Georgia? I suspect that no matter what he did-someone would find a way to criticize him for it.

I also found the female singer (Brightman?) a tad creepy looking- bad hair.

Loved the moveable type (and I believe it was people)-and the drummers.

The whole show was awe inspiring-

Like I said, I don't discount the possibility of visual or audio cuing system. I just don't get why it matters so much. Dancers have an audio cuing system. It's called music. Does that mean their dance moves are ACTUALLY robotic? Or that it would be impossible for them to recreate the dance without the music?

As for understudies, all you really have to do is train each person to do 2 parts. If an understudy is needed, you should be able to shift enough people around to keep things working.

Dear CD,

...but these performers all did an identical routine (to each other - I love the CG analogy), so all a last minute substitute would need to know is the right wong to attach him/herself to in order to stand at the correct X-Y location on the field. Better still, direct the sub(s) with an earpiece.

The BIG difference with the uber-typewriter is that no two 'tiles' had the same sequence of moves over the length of the performance. Offset concentric intersecting ripples are one example. Can you imagine the rehearsals? "Tile A-52, raise by 6 inches...A-53, lower by 12...too quick..too...slow....Awe Jeez, Chen phoned in sick" et al.

By the time you'd provided feedback to the entire grid, you'd have spent one day on one frame's worth of animation...which would have to be practiced again and again, with each performer in isolation. The alternative is to provide a visual aid inside the box that anyone could interpret in a trice and save yourself the ...ummm... angst I think Alex called it. It would require a Commodore 64 and an L.E.D. bar for each box. LED's are cheap in China 'cos they manufacture them by the $hitload.

With respect to the level of complexity, any dance routine requires remembering the moves, and yes you could do the dance without any audio cue - the point in debate is the timing relative to other performers, which you'd have to admit would be way difficult if you couldn't see them.

Sorry to be so stubborn on this, but I know when I'm being sold an illusion.

Angst - nah...stimulating yep. Thanks for spending the bucks, China !!!

Love and hugs,

The Stoat XXX.

Maybe they had DDR-like screens implanted in their eyes. Up down, left, right, up down, right left.

And I suspect that no matter what he did - someone would find a way to defend him.

Sure, I get that, and I would not be surprised if they were using something for cues. But nor would I feel like I was having the wool pulled over my eyes, that I've somehow been duped into thinking the performance was "more human" than it actually was. Any performance of anything is aided by external cues, that's a given.

Dear GD,

It was the inference that significant technology wasn't used that started this particular hobby horse - that, and the opportunity to engage in an intellectual debate with the finest of folk.

Hoping to see you, CD, and any LoTters that stumble into the zone when Bear and I finally cross the big wet bit.

Hugs,

The Stoat.

I believe that all of the drummers had ear-pieces as did many of the other performers. The drummers probably had a click track as something like that being performed by 2,008 performers would be neigh impossible to keep so tight without some sort of guide track.

Many other other performers also (I believe) had ear pieces - probably for the same purpose.

That detail IMO does not denigrate from the performances. As I said in my first post on this
Methinks that those of us "debating" this topic are more in agreement than this thread might indicate.

Methinks youthinks am totally correct...and from the very outset, I always said it was awesome...help or no help.

I'm totally thread-bear...someone please pass the Tylenol !!!

:)

Someone I am sure.

I find I have enough to be unhappy with him about than bitching that he did not pay close enough attention at the Olympic ceremony.

I call it priorities.

It makes me a little sad to think that they did not do the blocks with people actually-:p

I think Bush looked like most guys would during a 5 hour ceremony. Should he have had a more attentive face on because he is the POTUS? Ya. But I'm not going to knock him for being bored, tired or otherwise distracted. Did Putin and the other world leaders always look like they were seeing the best thing ever?

I hadn't been reading this thread because I didn't watch the ceremonies. It made me crack up that Bush is being criticized for looking bored. Funny.

I read that the fireworks, as viewed on TV, were actually CG representations of what it looked like to the spectators. Didn't think it would come across on the cameras. I have no problem with that personally, but I'm wondering if anyone here does?

Why is there contention over opinions and disagreements about the opening ceremonies? This seems a bit odd.

He should take lessons from the Queen. She has decades of experience at looking interested during long boring presentations and Gala Events.

...on aa side note, Billy Connolly once said that she also believes the world smells like fresh paint, because every country she visits, there's always a team of people doing up the venues she visits in order to look presentable.. :D

I thought that was done via surgery :eek: ;)

(bad BTD. Bad!)

Not surgery, nor botox.

...The Queen has perfected the art of freezing her muscles in an experssion that says "I'm sort of interested in the presentation before me". It was taught her by an ancient master of the Marital Arts who begged her never to use it for evil.

OK, so there was that one time when her concentration lapsed and she sat through Beethoven's Ninth Symphony played on 117 recorders at the Upper Cumbucta West Primary School with a look frozen on her face that said "Should one feed the corgi's fresh meat or kibble tonight?"

Luckily, no-one noticed.

Dee-Lit-Full

Two news stories on the Opening Ceremonies:

Fake feet trip up Olympic opening coverage
The Whole Story

Olympic Opening Mastermind Regrets Injuries
One Story with minimal details
I am curious what the injuries were

NBC made it abundantly clear during the broadcast that the Footsteps portion of the fireworks was a CGI re-creation.

"Abundant" might be a strong word. I was watching intently (I thought) and never heard them mention this.

(Of course, I could have also been paying more attention to the visuals than the commentary at the time)

Um, they said it three or four times WHILE the improbably photographed shot was going on. This is Fake, This is Fake, This is Fake.

The funny part is that I don't specifically remember the footsteps. But I have never been a fan of fireworks on TV anyways, so I may have mentally tuned out during that segment.

Sheesh, even I heard them say it was fake and at that moment in time I was across the street in a movie theater watching Pineapple Express.

(Not really.)


(The hearing part, I really was watching Pineapple Express.)

I don't remember them saying it either.

Silly people. The entire Olympics are GCI.

What's GCI? :confused:

CGI in French.

Gemini Cricket Interpretation

Or CGI in dyslexic.

Link

Another "fake"

I read that and I'm not sure if I was saddened or disgusted.

For those not opening the link, apparently the little girl who sang in the opening ceremony was lip syncing and the real singer was a 7 year old girl. The 7 year old girl won the contest to sing, but apparently wasn't cute enough to be in the ceremony because of buck teeth.

Edited to add:
I have no problem with lipsyncing in performances such as these. Performing in arenas with noise and echos is incredibly difficult, and I would assume even more so for a young girl.

Dear Dsylexcis Not Afraid,

There is more to this simple statement than meets the eye in one's head.

If it's OK for China to do CGI segments (and infer that others were not computer assisted - but I won't go there again -yet) then the gloves will be off for the future in terms of "reality".

GCI [sic] costs a bomb, but doing this kind of $hit in real-time with the whole world watching is even more costly.

Now that the precedent has been set, I'm predicting freaky $hit like alien craft appearing and beaming down stuff. At this rate we'll have Homer Simpson as MC.

At least the 'stuff' won't include The Resident Shrub and The First Lady (aka The Huge Bruise), so it's all good.

Not long now, 7 and a bit months worth of swimming.

Love and hugs,

The Stoat XXX.

On the issue of "Faking" stuff.

I want to make it really clear that I don't care if fake stuff happened to give us all a great show. Now (or even past 'shows').

That has never been a prolbem [sic] for me.

The prolbem [sic] happens when I'm told something is A when in fact it is B.

That is, do anything, but don't lie to me about it...and yet this simple ask is so often dishonoured...and most often by those seeking honour. China wanted to impress the World, but now they are finding that cheats never prosper.

Though in this case they probably will break even.

Go figure.

Love and hugs,

The Stoat XXX.

I couldn't agree more.

If you've ever read/seen George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' in which everyone is born equal in a communist society, but others are more equal, the side-lining of the buck tooth youngster absolutely describes the mindset, even in 2008 when the "C" word is just an echo of the past.

What's more worrying is the notion that folks are told stuff and the majority don't stop to think "but wait on-that can't be right".

...and London to a brick, after spending a gaffillionty dollars on the ceremony, they won't spend a square-plugged dime on the little girl's teeth, which makes my cheese unhappy.

:(

Hugs,

The Stoat.

I've read it....just ask Scrooge McSam. :evil:

It is actually my favorite novel.

Now I'm wondering - Animal Farm, 1984 and Brave New World are pretty much mandatory high school reading in the US. Is it the same in Australia?

Chinese Government = Milli Vanilli
 

I agree with you scaeagles, what the Chinese government (or producers/director I guess) decided to do here was just heinous.

I was watching a broadcast of the men's gymnastics last night and I was very happy for the Chinese male gymnasts. They were crying at the end when they realized their goal, and I could tell they really worked so hard. [Well, aside from the fact that as a Communist country those gymnasts will get first class housing and treatment just like all the old athletes did from behind the Iron Curtain, and that if they failed they would probably be publically flogged and sent to prison... wasn't it the Iraqi soccer players who were threatened with imprisonment if they didn't do well? I forget.]

Truly truly sad. Talk about a doing a Milli Vanilli on the public. I agree, I can live with CGI. I'm OK with lip syncing in a crowded arena to be heard above the din. But to replace a girl because she wasn't as cute? Puhlease.

And sceagles, it wasnt' just buck teeth. The girl on the right is far more photogenic--she's cuter. But dear god, this is just horrible.

I'll say it. I can't STAND the Chinese government. Can't stand them. Absolutely no love lost here. Alex and I were seriously contemplating spending money to visit the panda reserves in a few years but frankly I don't want to give them anymore money than I already am by buying Disney merchandise made in China.

Here's the photo of the two girls (the one of the left is the "homely" one with the beautiful voice):

Never read, never read, and never read. Holy cow, where was I in high school? (Oh yeah, with my nose deep in Victor Hugo novels)

edit: huh... the one of the left is cute enough... you expect bad teeth on kids, they're growing.

And had there not been a side by side comparison everyone would have awwwwwwwwed her too. No country in the world (besides China) would have said "you bring shame to China and the world for having not perfect teeth". No one would have made any comment or notice.

Stupid Chinese government.

I've read all three of those but none of them were required reading for me in high school (and in my opinion only one of the three is particularly special).

At a lot of live events that are broadcast, the use of taped footage is common. Even when the taped footage is meant to look like live footage.

ie. There was a Janet Jackson concert shot live in Hawai'i. Two identical versions were shot. One was with an audience and one was beforehand without an audience. This allows for certain shots to be inserted into the live broadcast and the DVD that is made afterwards.
I was at the show and when a curtain didn't fall correctly around Janet and just hung there in the first few minutes of the concert, they stopped the show and restarted. I'm thinking there would have been continuity issues if the curtain was allowed to hang there and the curtain was gone in the previously shot footage.

Pre-recorded footage allows the cameramen to get certain shots that they can not get live. Close-ups, etc. They would have had a hell of a time shooting the footprints fireworks with cameras stationed everywhere and helicopters...

And lip-syncing happens all the time. (Whitney Houston's Star Spangled Banner... lip synced.) But replacing the kid with another more appealing kid is just freakin' lame. Reminds me of the whole C&C Music Factory thing, replacing big Martha Walsh with a skinny model for the video.

The kid singing is one of the only part of the ceremonies I actually managed to catch (in between painting projects). I can't remember if it was during that segment or another one where the voice over guy mentioned about the participants being "average" kids and how that was so important to the ceremony. And I remember thinking that the girl "singing" was obviously lip syncing, which was fine under the circumstances, but that she looked kind of....artificial. I dunno. Maybe I'm weird, but I actually think the real singer is cuter.

I find the stage kid cuter, for whatever that is worth.

You are definitely not the only one who enjoys the procession of beautiful blokes!

That moment freaked me out! I thought one of his wires had broken and audibly gasped.

Oh dear gawd yes! And why bagpipes for any country other than Scotland and maybe Ireland? I believe at least one previous opening ceremony had music selected to match the country being announced. That was way cooler in my opinion.

Yes. A thousand times yes! By far my favorite aspect of the OCs.

And though it was decidedly low-tech, I thought the idea of having all the athletes literally leave their footprints on the painting was inspired. And a nice connection to the opening (albeit virtual) footprints across the land.

I actually thought it was cool for Bush to be there, especially in the regular old bleachers. (Even if he was in the World Leader section.) That said, I think a head of state needs to be able to feign interest--even if the presentation is frightfully jejune. Looking bored and/or at his watch is a horrible reflection on the USA and just plain rude.

Yeeeeeah, that was a bit creepy. :eek:

Has anyone mentioned the countdown? That was awesome.

Yeah, that was the freaking coolest. Oh, i'm geeking out just recalling it.

Dear CP,

I can't say for sure that these books were/are mandatory in Oz schools...just that my English teacher took us on an excrusion to see the cartoon film version in the early 1970's. It stuck in my mind ever since.

With the watering-down in OZ schools, I don't think kids are even taught to read and write any more...let alone be introduced to something that is intellectually stimulating.

I imagine that the whole threat of communism was in the fore-front of the USA's political conscience (and for damned good reasons), and what better way to educate young'ns about a system that sounds great but runs like a busted ar$e in practice. If only its designers had taken human nature into account, they'd have realised what works for ants and bees is NBG for us.

...and I'll repeat...what's the bet they don't even fix the kids teeth?

Much love and hugs,

The Stoat XXX

Hey now, stop hijacking this thread! [Like I'm one to talk.]

So how does:


Differ from:


Talk amongst yerself.

Not by much. If the Chinese wanted their ceremonies to be impressive yet scary, they succeeded brilliantly!

Cool. With this picture, if you scroll up and down a couple of inches real fast, it makes for a neat optical illusion

On the subject of the girl singer, a coworker just gave me this link. It is from what appears to be a heavily (Chinese) government controlled web news site (People's Daily Online). The article was posted today and does not even discuss the fact that the singer on camera was not the actual person doing the singing.

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/6472775.html

I don't know.

How does this



differ from this

The second one doesn't have the same optical illusion fun that the first one does.

What optical illusion are you seeing? I'm not seeing one.

Kind of looks like a flip book with people flappng their arms like birds.

To me, anyway.

Fake lip-syncing belongs to Hollywood - they're stealing our intellectual property and unique cultural heritage of artifice in name of entertainment

The infamous Microsoft Blue Screen of Death even made it into the opening ceremonies - check this out

.

Apparently i must spread some more mojo around.

Make sure to use a condom

Stoat, that was a thing of beauty.

Awesome Stoat

I vote for Homely Girl. And I think she's cute!

Shame on the Chinese Gov't. Didn't they think it would get out... a.k.a. not everyone has that much supression in their news... ?

And I loved the goose stepping. I know it probably conjures negativity from some people, but their military is a part of their modern culture. Plus, they executed it with such perfection, I couldn't help but be in awe.

Uh, the second one is in black and white, duh...!

LashStoat -- Of course the answer is #1 because the picture in A shows them flapping their arms like crazy!

I do like the optical illusion.

My guess would be that it never occurred to them anyone would see a problem with it. From their point of view they were just making the ceremony as perfect as they could. It's not like they tried very hard to hide it.

Oh, I think they did. NBC didn't investigate for itself to discover there was a contest for the singing kid. They announced the girl on TV as the contest winner. They were fed that information by the Chinese to broadcast to the world. Yes, they were trying very hard (but ineptly) to hide the truth.

And wasn't matching a perfect voice with a perfect face not already pretty common here until it became possible to take the perfect face and convert whatever noise comes out of their mouth into perfect voice?

After all, there is a reason Marni Nixon sang while Audrey Hepburn pranced around. Sure it is more brutal that it was done to a 7-year-old but that's showbiz.

Can you show your husband - he wasn't seeing it.

Susan brought up a good point on this last night.

One needs to consider the culture that it comes from. The Chinese tend to think more in terms of what is good the group - the collective conscious if you will. The individual is not as highly regarded as it here is in the West. This is not a fault of the Chinese: just a different mindset (which has IMO advantages and disadvantages).

Since they believe in doing what is best for the country (not the individual), it may have been at least partially "no big deal" to them.

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-08/41518818.jpg
 

Ya know, I vaguely recall him looking at the picture and jittering it. I think it's just his eyes.

Oh FOR PETE'S SAKES I used the wrong images!!!

Corrected version:

What do really think of the Chinese? :p

Honestly? It's not the people, it's the government.

I had an enlightening read at Arthur Frommer's blog today (he's having another person post blogs from her Beijing trip). Here's the poster asking some questions of someone who lives there, who is answering candidly:

How can I not be scared of this?!?!? This government wants to rule the world! Skeeeery! Assimilation!!!

oh, no, no, don't get me wrong. I despise the Chinese government, and your Borg photo was so on the money!


On the other hand, I'm not too pleased with the United States government ... but nothing makes it look good like the Chinese government!!

Keep in mind, Lani is Japanese. It is in her genes to look at China and think "yeah, we could take that."

When all is said and done I'd gladly take the bullsh*t the US government pulled then the Chinese government. At least I can say I fvckin hate our current administration and not have to worry about the black helicopters delivering snipers to come... what's that red dot on my wa...

I used to work at a Chinese restaurant and I really grew to love them and their culture, insofar as my little Western mind could grok it. I will say that I think the biggest difference between the Chinese and the Japanese is that China has no problem faking shyt, whereas Japan would find a way to do it for reals. I blame the government, not the people. The Chinese are hardworking and they have little time or respect for anyone who is not, but the type of system they live under (particularly now) is so freaking schizo they don't know what to do. Just look at the seats sitting empty in all the pavilions, even though they were supposedly sold out. They're all running around, freaking out, and even have 'cheer squads' to try to pump up the crowds. No doubt some heads will roll over this.....China's got one foot in the Western world, the other in a Maoist one, and their heads and hearts belong to the 4,000 plus years of history that is imprinted on their genes. I love the Chinese, hate their government.

U.O.Us an I.O.U...
 

Ok - you're all busted for hijacking the LashPair thread, which was about the 2008 Opening Ceremony. My ABC post was just to add verisimilitude.

This entitles both LashBear and LashStoat one incursion each on a thread of our choice. For example, if the topic is Cars, we can interject with a post about needle-point.

Love and hugs,

The Stoat XXX.

I submit that Wendy's post was entirely ON topic seeing that it pretty well summarizes exactly the message I got out of the ceremony. "We're good people, we know our government gives you the willies, to be honest it kinda gives us the willies, but, eh, we're used to it and it's all we know, so cut us some slack, we're working on it."

incursions revoked.

well, she posted while stoat was composing, therefore... you're all busted except for windybeth.... :p

PS: I like needlepoint.

I like turtles.

What, are you gay or something?

I like pancakes.

Sorry, but they worked on it 20 years ago and look what happened. The government just kind of let the protestors do their thing until they'd had enough, and then they rolled in the tanks and just ran over everyone.

Honestly, that picture in your av is one of my favorite pictures of all time. I really love it.
:)

Okay, then I guess they should just give up.

Only if they don't want to be shot in the back.

Long ago in this thread I said that it was obvious that the message and ideals presented in the Opening Ceremony were sugar coated and fiction. That it was what they'd like us to think is happening rather than what is actually happening.

But as sugar coated as the Opening Ceremony version was, the sentiments presented DO exist in China, and they are the sentiments that the world needs to encourage if they are ever to get out from under the shadow of a ruling class that has 4000 years of entrenchment. It's not going to happen now, and it's not going to be bloodless. But it's worth letting the real live people that DO see a path towards a world where their history can coexist with openness and freedom that we agree and would like to see them get there.

ETA: And I'll reiterate I'm not thrilled about Bush showing up. There was no precedent of courtesy that required him to be there and I feel it gives a dangerous government too much credence.

When I was watching, my only thought was, "hey, this is neat visual and auditory entertainment." Never once did I associate the show with what the Chinese government may or may not be like.

Unfortunately, I know that some people get swayed by this kind of propaganda. Not anyone on this board, but many people, sadly, do.

Just because you weren't thinking it doesn't mean it wasn't there. There were clear themes and messages being portrayed about China, its people, and at least one view on how its history informs the country now and going forward. How much of that was the work of the director, Zhang Yimaou, vs. how much was what the Chinese government would let him get away with is obviously a murky question, to put it mildly. But regardless of whatever propoganda agendas the government was using it for, I see it as a starting off point for an international conversation that, in the most optimistic world, puts China on a path where the government can no longer keep the eyets of the world off of 1/5th of our population and brings a level of scrutiny that is necessary for the drastic change that needs to take place.

More revealed as faked

Apparently, the 56 ethnic Chinese children - claimed to be all from the minorities they were representing - we all from the majority group of Han Chinese.

Honestly, I think the communist mindset encourages fakery, for a variety of reasons that I'm too damned lazy to go into. The Soviets were great at it as well- they cheated and broke every rule they could, and if that didn't work the threat of violence would. Their people go along with it because they have no choice (generally speaking, of course) but in the end the rest of the world is just resigned to it happening. I'm not saying that other nations don't cheat, but the Chinese seem to be incapable of doing anything without adding that element to the equation. Their products are not only largely sub-par, they're frikking dangerous these days. It was the same in the Soviet Union- the only way people could get decent food, clothing and other material goods was on the black market. I'm really intrigued by the Chinese market- it's this weird moshing of capitalism and socialism, mixed up with the aforementioned mindset but trying to do business in a post-industrial revolution world that expects relatively safe products and honest dealings. I'm also intrigued by what can happen there politically- those young professionals in the big cities are getting mighty comfy living a Western lifestyle; if the ruling party decides to put the kabosh on the whole experiment it could get pretty messy.

I wonder what we might fear more - a powerful communist squashing freedoms in it's attempts to control everything, which if we believe our own nationalist philosophy must really be hobbled by it's bureaucracy - or a free capitalist China where it's morality is dictated by market forces.

Don't we have that here?

Indeed

I fear this country is becoming a Corporatocracy... And corporations have no morals.

All of them? Puh-lease :rolleyes:

I suggest all corporations give every ounce of profit to the government for efficient and charitable use.

Why not. The government sure as hell gives a lot of my tax money to big corporations!