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A Prop 8 challenge for swankers
Okay guys, I don't know about you, but I'm getting worried about this election. I think it's time for some grass-roots efforts to get the word out there about voting No on Prop 8. So here's my challenge to you:
Create a flyer (your own or one shared by another LoTer) that reminds people to vote No. Could be as simple as a circle slash with Prop 8 in the center, or as detailed as you want, I don't care, as long as it reminds people why it's so important to vote no. Go to Kinko's, make 100 copies of your flyer, and distribute all of them in a manner of your choosing (on car windshields in the Target parking lot, on your neighbors' doorsteps, hand them out in person in a public place, whatever). Then post here that you've done it. I haven't got much in the way of prizes, but I will give a reindeer Mickey ear hat to everyone who completes the challenge (While supplies last. Yes, the ones from last year's Xmas party). Feel free to use this thread to discuss/share flyer and distribution ideas. My hope is that we'll all (myself included) feel inspired to continue the effort and spread the word even further than the initial hundred. But I can tell you from experience that handing out more than a hundred flyers is a lot to bite off, so please start with that, and if you still feel inspired, then go make more copies, etc. |
One can go here for ideas.
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I think that's a great idea.
Even if it's just as little as you putting a bumper sticker on your car, everything helps. :) |
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Oooh, they have a No on Prop 8 store too: http://www.noonprop8store.com/eshop/10Browse.asp
(I know that technically belongs in the other gay marriage thread, but whatever, it's from Kevy's link) |
I'll be glad to help out as soon as my life becomes available again ... in 10 days.
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Any time, any place (well, any time prior to the closing of the polls)
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Someone make a clever sign/flyer and upload a PDF. I'll participate in distributing but I have no artistic talent to speak of.
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So on the Metro, on my way to the Ahmanson's Theatre last night, a No on 8 canvasser stopped me. Maybe 20 years old or so. So, I started grilling him about what he knew about Prop 8 and what it meant. He knew what he was talking about, which was great. I told him I had already voted No on 8. He offered to give me stickers, I told him I already had one but I said for him to save them for someone who doesn't have any. I thanked him for what he was doing.
I'm glad he knew his stuff. I'm not so glad knowing that I'm turning into one of those snarky old men who would quiz young whipersnapers about what they know. :D |
I like the line of thought directed at straight people for Prop 8: "can I vote on your right to marry"
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This is the new ad for No on 8.
It looks like it just went up on YouTube. It only has one comment on it (mine), there is room for more. :) |
Gibbonsinthelibrary???
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Saw that one on TV last night.
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batsinthebelfrey perhaps ? :p
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:D |
I know I can't vote up here in Wa, but I have gotten into several arguments over this with people, most notably my conservative clients. Since I hold sharp pointy shears I always win.:D
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Ugh. You know what's most disheartening about the fact that Prop 8 is now ahead in the polls? The demographic that's moved the most towards supporting it is young voters. WTF happened?
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Frankly I think the new No on 8 ad isn't all that convincing.
The yes on 8 ads are all into alarming people and they need to address the fallacies that the ads portray in order to "fight back". I think the people that are bent on voting Yes don't care about people being treated equally under the law and those ads won't have any impact. They want to vote yet because the Yes on 8 ads have tricked them into thinking all sorts of terrible things will happen. |
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I'm not for certain about the young vote and what that poll means.
Here is something I posted on Facebook to a friend of mine who is frustrated about Prop 8. Quote:
Honestly, I'm not. If 8 passes, it will be challenged. If 8 fails, it will be challenged. Eventually, there will be marriage equality. No doubt about that. |
Where can I get No on 8 yard signs? I just need a couple, but I want them to be highly visible.
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"It is always disheartening to see a Yes on 8 commercial. But remember, no matter how loud they are or how many signs they have, they are not on the side of what is right. Their children and their children's children will realize how wrong they were on this issue and their legacy will become one of intolerance and hypocrisy. On that, I can be certain."
So true, Gemini Cricket. You sound like a very wise person. |
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My friend is working the phone banks Thursday. I will ask and see if he can pick some stuff up if you'll be in the area before the election.
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Ugh, I'm finding myself having such an angry reaction to the Yes On 8 folks. Today I was in a store and the fvcking KoC ad came played on the radio station that was tuned in. I had an urge to find and smash the radio.
Yesterday I drove past a bunch of people waving Yes On 8 signs, some with pictures of a mom and dad hugging and kissing their sweet innocent child. I sat at a red light across from them for a while, and by the time it turned green and I could pass them, I had to stop myself from rolling down the window and shouting horrible things at them. Frustratingly, once I got past them and calmed down, all I wanted to do is go back and talk to them reasonably, but I know that I'd just get angry again if I tried and it would not turn out well. Sigh. I don't respond well to fear and hate. |
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I saw some No on 8 people out with handmade signs. I'm really tempted to do that one day, after work before the election. I also think that I'm going to end up ending a few friendships over this, I don't think I can be friends with people who think it's ok to take away rights. |
My area has become literally plastered with Yes on 8 in the past week. Yard signs, bumper stickers, idiots on street corners waiving signs. This morning I wanted to stop the car and yell at them, at the very least flip them off. Not that either of these are very mature or get me anywhere but it's crazy how many signs and things I see.
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It would make a vast difference in how I would confront them on it. |
Judging from the tone of the ads, it's being framed as a freedom of religion issue. They're being "forced to tolerate" (oh no, tolerance!!) something they "morally object" to. And "churches could lose their tax exempt status" or be sued!
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All the materials are from the same orginization - which I can't remember right now. Some of the people holding signs says "Yes on 8 = Freedom of Speech, and Yes on 8 = Restoration of Marriage" There are a few other slogans that I can't remember.
Edited to add - here it is Protect Marriage |
There should be new signs with "protect marriage" and then use images of Brittany and her 2 marriages, Madonna and her marriages, McCain and his affair, etc...
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That and "protect the children" with some twisted, "The institution of marriage exists only for the benefit of children, and children should be raised by their biological parents, so we need to protect marriage." Nevermind that adoption, divorce, in-vetro, marriage between sterile people, etc. etc. would remain perfectly legal. :rolleyes:
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How is this a free speech issue?
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There was a really horrible "Save Traditional Marriage" ad that played in Hawai'i in '98. It showed the idiot who headed the campaign standing there with his dog. (I'm sure you can guess where the ad went from there.) But he said, "If gays are allowed to marry, then will I be able to marry my dog?"
It was so very degrading and petty. I feel sorry for how dumb some people are about this issue. I'm no rocket scientist, but I ain't no buffoon... unless I'm being buffoonish on purpose... |
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I know a lot of these groups have issues with the word “marriage”. Now correct me if I’m wrong but to my understanding in some churches you’re not considered “married” unless you have a ceremony in that particular church with a priest. I know this is true for Catholics. Now if 8 were to get voted down you still couldn’t be gay and “married” in the Catholic Church’s eyes because they wouldn’t perform the ceremony, which is their right. I know many people who are Catholic who were not married in the church but elsewhere and unless you later go in and have your “marriage” blessed, to the church it’s a “civil union” anyway. So I don’t get the threat or problem. If your particular religion doesn’t want to perform a gay marriage based upon it’s beliefs then no problem. Why does it matter anymore than if someone goes to Vegas or City Hall which aren’t usually religious ceremonies anyway but civil ones?
My Aunts suggestion was that we go the British way. You have a legal ceremony and then should you want to, a religious ceremony at whatever institution you subscribe to. Takes the religion aspect out of it. |
There is absolutely nothing that voting against prop 8 will do to change a church's tax-exempt status nor its right to choose who it will and will not perform marriages for. Period. The pro-8 is utter nonsense and outright lies. It's beyond me how it's even legal to use false information in a political campaign.
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I heard Pepperdine issues a cease and desist order for the "professor" in one of the Yes on 8 ads. I can't find a link for the story though :(
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I think I am going to be more pissed if 8 passes than I am going to be if McCain wins.
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Here's the story on the Pepperdine professor.
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Okay, here's a rough draft of my flyer (Times New Roman, 18-point type for Header and Footer (bolded here), 14-point type for the body):
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Visible mojo for Morrigoon. :) |
Too wordy, but I can't help myself. And maybe logic will reach some folks.
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I'd try to shorten it a bit, and call out the lies from the other side.
Use bullet points. People respond to bullet points. * No church will be forced to perform marriages they don't approve of * No on Prop 8 make life easier for the families of countless adopted children. * Churches will maintain tax exempt status. * No on Prop 8 protects the institution of marriage for everyone |
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A little more info on my Twitter post -
There were 7 or 8 if not more No on 8 signs along the path I took home from the freeway. This path was basically off the 133 down to just before Sand Canyon. Not a super busy road. Last week I noticed a bunch of No on 8 signs placed along the path. Yesterday I noticed a few of the No on 8 signs missing. Didn't think anything of it, as I could have just overlooked them. Today I am certain they have all been removed. Other political signs are up, just the No on 8 signs have been removed. There are no Yes on 8 signs up (there weren't before either). |
Really it is very depressing -- I *had* thought that we had made great strides in the past ten years (and we have, don't get me wrong), but I thought we were past the point of such blatant homophobia in California by so many people (there will always be bigoted a-holes out there... but so MANY just scares me).
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If I can get my hands on more, I'll put them up again. I don't have monies to buy them right now though :(
Do networks (regular and cable) have to accept campaign commercials for air time? |
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My head hurts. |
I'm so angry over Prop 8 that it's starting to affect me physically. I'm literally fatigued and sickened every time I see/hear yes on 8 ads. My big mistake was earlier today when I was looking for info on the percentage of funding behind Prop 8 that came from the Mormon church and other out-of-state interests, and I happened upon a discussion following an article in the Deseret News. I shouldn't have kept reading, but I did. I can't wait for this to be over.
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The hatred in the radio ads surprises and saddens me, but honestly I'm just glad I'm down here, registered to vote, and have the privilege to cast my vote against Prop 8.
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Morri~I know what you mean. Like I said, I don't know how I'll face people after this. And if somehow it passes? That stupid commercial that says they need to listen to the people; hey, it passed. When things arne't the way they want it, it isn't right.
I think the stealing of the signs is cowardly and shows they fear that they are going to lose. Although, I understand that the Yes on 8 are being stolen, also. I think that is because the signs are rude. Yeah, it makes me sick, too. Bible schmible. Love and respect your brothers and sisters. That is what God wants, right? Shame on those who would deny anyone what they have. Can't you get free signs somewhere? I wanted to get some Obama ones and No on 8 but I haven't had a chance....just thought of it today...I wonder where I got the idea. :D :snap: Oh yes, Pru, the radio ads turn my stomach, I feel the hatred. I can't imagine how someone feels who this is directed personally to. And don't tell me it isn't personal. You have to put a face to it, you can't just call it a proposition. |
You do have to buy the signs... I paid $5 for my Obama sign from the Santa Ana office, but I overheard tonight that they're asking $8 for them from the Lake Forest office, and that she has trouble getting the main offices to give her any at all. For No on 8 signs, she said you have to order them online from NoOn8.com and that they arrive in about 2-3 days, they come from LA.
Pru: I'm so glad you're here and got registered :) I'm thinking of buying posterboard and making my own signs. |
Grrr. A NEW Yes on 8 ad, all about the "a prince can marry a prince" saying that gay marriage will be taught in schools.
The No on 8 campaign better get moving with ads to refute this. I have a very bad feeling that this thing is going to pass and it makes me sick. |
I've heard that commercial.
It is twisting something that happened. I really doubt that they aimed to teach that, kids aren't necessarily taught marriage, they are taught family. Perhaps one of the students has gay parents or had a question about it. Perhaps that child lives in a home where they make everything voodoo. I don't buy that b.s. commercial. And, the way they say 'It really happened!' And, thanks about the news about the signs. I need to find where to go locally. I hear that you can pick up Obama shirts there.... |
I simply cannot understand why anyone is for Prop. 8. No one is taking away the rights of churches. Churches can believe and accept whatever they want to believe and accept. Church is a choice.
Gay couples already adopt or have children, raise families, have their own children, buy property together - share everything that a married couple also share with any of the other legal benefits a married couple. Why shouldn't they have the same legal protection that other people do? Marriage is a generic term shared by people both religious who care to marry in a sacred ceremony and those who simply want the many benefits that a married couple enjoy since they are already joined in a partnership. Why would anyone have an objection to these benefits:
I haven't gotten into any arguments over Prop 8 and it is unlikely that will happen too often in Long Beach - although I have seen a few Yes on 8 signs. Yes on 8 just doesn't make sense. |
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I had a coworker say she couldn't decide how to vote on it. She said she thinks gov't should stay out of marriage. I said well, then vote no. She said she just couldn't pick and abstained on that one, and had already mailed her ballot.
She's such a nice person too, but man, am I livid. :mad: I brought it up with another coworker because now I feel stupid for not talking about it sooner. Hopefully I can sway him, he seems kind of on the fence about it too. |
My standpoint is, I prefer an abstention to a Yes. Abstaining doesn't directly help gay marriage, but remembering that every yes vote requires an extra no vote to counter it, eliminating yeses will help the cause indirectly.
For people who can't be convinced to vote No, I'll settle for eliminating their yes by convincing them to abstain. |
I'm so excited! I managed to convince one of my 'going to vote yes based upon the word marriage' co-workers that marriage is a verb these days, and allowing same-sex marriage isn't going to do anything to weaken her marriage. She thought about it over the weekend, and decided that she couldn't take away the rights of her Aunt. She voted no. Her husband couldn't get away from the term marriage and voted yes. She tried to convince him otherwise, but he just couldn't get around the term. If it was to allow marriage benefits and to call them civil unions (for everyone) he would have voted no.
I also made my own NO on 8 signs. Using the actual design of the signs I added white space and the verbiage "Please don't take away the rights of my friends". I'm going to make a few more "Don't Hate. Don't Discriminate" and if I'm feeling ornery "Can I vote on your right to marry?" and "marriage should be protected from the 'straights'. Brittany anyone? How about Madonna? Or McCain and his affair?". |
Why do I find it funny that Madonna - a fag hag if there ever is one - is being used to mock straight marriage.
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Hetero's have done a great job of making a mockery out of the "institute of marriage". Divorce rate is around 50%. |
Well; marriage is the prime cause of divorce. Did you know that every single divorce was preceded by marriage?
Shocking! |
I think part of the opposition is homophobic, but I also think part of it stems from the usual Joe Sixpack insecurity that liberals/gays think that they will somehow have better, hipper marriages than straights. Therefore, the anti-8 groups should run ads featuring gay couples arguing about money, fighting in front of the children, beating on each other and so on.
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I had a discussion about 8 with my teenage daughter yesterday. You know -we've talked a lot about the presedentail candidates but not the prop's. She was saying she would vote yes which rather alarmed me - so we discussed why I was voting no. She kept saying - didn't know that - really - that's not fair.
I hope that if the subject comes up with her friends, she can voice these facts. They are freshmen but will be ready or nearly ready to vote in the next election for president in 4 years. And who knows, maybe if she does mention something to her friends, they might ask their parents about it. Then I think - ha! Like that will ever happen. Teenagers standing up against their friends for a cause that doesn't directly affect them at their very moment in time and that those teens would then go and (gasp) talk to their parents. Dream on. But at least we were able to discuss it. |
Nonsense, teens LOVE to take on a cause they understand little about :) especially when influenced by a charismatic peer who convinces them that their rights are at stake.
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See here's the thing.
If 8 passes it's going to court. If 8 fails it's going to end up back on the ballot. This election isn't the end all of the issue. |
GC~ Sadly I think people believe following whatever their church says will get them into heaven.
The teen issue~ my son 'debated' with his close friends the last election; over abortion, the war, religion, you name it. He stood up for his beliefs, ones that I haven't brainwashed him with, I would say he has more enlightened me than I him. But, it was difficult. It really did cause a rift {like how I feel now, probably, but now it is on a larger amount of people} with these people, some he's known since he was 4 years old. I hope that your daughter can stand up and voice her opinion but I would still {{{hug}}} her for opening up her mind and her heart. Unfortunately, a lot of kids parents are worried about telling their kids that it is okay to be different and that is what she gets stuck with. |
Madz is 12 and in her enlightened, informed opinion Prop 8 is Stupid. When the first No on 8 ad came out, the wedding one, we were watching TV and she said she didn't get it. So I explained that it was trying to say what if people you loved had all these obsticales in their way and couldn't marry who they wanted to. She kind of got that then I told her it was for gay marriage. To be honest I don't think it had occured to her that you couldn't get married if you were gay. So I explained what if GC or Isaac or ISM found someone they loved but they're not allowed to get married because they're gay. "Well that's just stupid". So now when any Prop 8 ads come on her comment is "it's Stupid that they can't get married".
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I think what you did, katiesue, putting a face to the issue, is key.
Unfortunately, I think people pretend they don't see things. My aunt told us she and her son were debating the issue and she told him that you had to support the 'no'. She said that back when she was a child in grade school, {oh, I'd the '50s? not sure what part}, the principal came to their house and told their father if the kids spoke Spanish in class they would be sent home. So, she said, don't let that happen. Don't give anyone control over your life. |
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:) |
Well, doing a prop 8 search on twitter is encouraging, but we all know that only taking a sample from the wired world is not representative.
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Awesome. Just got handed a letter from an openly gay coworker asking to vote against 8 (in which I learned he was married in '04 in SF to his partner). I of course told him I already was. It was in an envelope with my name on it, so I assume he's only handing them to people whom he has a working relationship with and is not blanketing the company, but good for him for doing something!
ETA: Heh, also learned that he was a practicing devout Mormon for 30 years. |
I object to the idea of amending any constitution to limit standard rights for particular groups of people. Generally constitutional changes are reserved for specifically enumerating rights.
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Which will, in fact, be the basis of the lawsuit filed if Prop H8 passes. There's some sort of precedent which holds the Constitution cannot be amended by ballot initiatives for the purpose of taking away Constutitional rights ... or some such thing.
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The problem, as I see it, is (and I'm assuming that it would be the same as the federal Constitution) that there is no limitation to what can be an amendment. I would guess that if enough people voted for it, one could amend the constitution declaring that chickens have voting rights and the owners have the power to vote on behalf of their chickens (thereby reducing the voting power of non-chicken owners).
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scaeagles, there's a limit on what can be amended BY BALLOT MEASURE to the California Constitution. I've seen the case law on it.
That's not to say there isn't any conflicting case law. But there will be a lawsuit on that basis if the measure passes. |
From what I understand, amendments cannot be made based upon vote. Only the legislation can make them.
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BTD, Constitutional amendments can be made by ballot initiative. What's at issue is whether there is a limit to what types of amendment. As I said, case law exists setting precedent that Constitutional rights cannot be eliminated by ballot measure vote. And just because there may (or may not) be conflicting case law does not make it a squishy legal argument, Kevy ... just an argument. The courts will decide.
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The whole point of having a constitution is to prevent a simple majority from voting away the rights of a minority on a whim.
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Exactly. Which is why I think the legal challenge to any Prop H8 passage will be on very firm ground.
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I know, it seems like you can find a poll somewhere, anywhere to support your take on something but this I found interesting:
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Honestly, I don't know what to believe. But here's to hoping... |
I think the difference is between whether you have an amendment to the constitution or a revision of the constitution. Revisions have to be submitted to the voters by the legislature. Amendments do not. There is certainly case law on what constitutes a revision, but I don't have it at the tip of my tongue.
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One would hope that an amendment which takes away a Constitutionally-granted fundamental right of a minority (which normally must be looked at per the In Re Marriage cases under the strict scrutiny standard) would constitute a "revision".
Again... I need to review the case law and see what sorts of examples are out there, because I don't usually delve into that area. |
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hommarl8.htm
^^ Some interesting stuff in there. Just FYI, the last poll shows Prop 8 being defeated 52% to 44%. Great news, and new commercials with the (or a) Superintendent of public schools telling voters about the lies of the Yes on 8 people. Last night I went to a house party that raised over $4000. (in the raffle I won a Barack Obama shirt, and BJ won a $375 photography session woot woot!). They said that there has been more money raised by the No on 8 people than on any other LGBT issue (I think they said in either CA history or US history). But of course we are being outspent by the Mormons. How they feel SO PASSIONATELY about taking away other people's rights is plain sick to me.... Please everyone, keep telling your friends about this!! |
I wonder. If it does pass and it is upheld, I could certainly see the rise of another ballot prop, an amendment that would repeal the prop 8 amendment.
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I haven't found one person in my client base who is a Yes on 8 person. I love Long Beach.
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Apparently the LHC people are organizing a costume thingy for the WeHo Halloween Carnival where they all dress up as No on 8 signs.
I hope I run into them. :D |
I've only seen one Yes sign in Burbank so far. But then again, I'm right by three big movie studios.
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http://www.noonprop8.com/
WOOT there's the ad I'm talking about. This is more of what we need (message from the California Superintendent of Schools) |
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There is case law to support that protections afforded to racial, religious, and gender minorities is to also be applied to sexual orientation. Again, I no longer have a record of the case name. Although this I'm sure you can find easily. Then of course there's Loving vs. Virginia, which nullified anti-miscegenation laws (eg: legalized interracial marriage) And Brown vs. Board of Education, which we all know establishes that separate is not equal. Dang, I used 5 cases in the paper I wrote, can't remember what the 5th case was for, probably a weaker supporting argument. Of all the things I wish I hadn't thrown out from college, its the physical copy of this paper I miss the most (since the digital was lost in a hard drive crash) |
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In the In Re Marriage cases, the California Supreme Court recognized that: Quote:
The big deal of those cases is not that the right to marry is fundamental, but that sexual orientation was made a "suspect class" like race: Quote:
Of course, this part is nice too: ;) Quote:
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Cherny: Good research, yeah I did my paper on a national scale. But like you say, ultimately, the (national) constitutionality of this battle will end up being decided on the national level.
Does the state supreme court not take national constitutionality into account? |
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If the case gets to the USSC, can't the overturning od Colorado's Amendment 2 be used as precedence against 8?
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Lawrence v. Texas would be the most direct precedent. Beyond saying that there was no rational basis for criminalizing gay sex, the majority spoke at some length about the personal nature of the decision of whom to love. It would seem odd to say that the personal decision of whom to love is only respected to the extent that you can't be thrown in jail for it but that it does not extend to the stabilizing institution of marriage.
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1. Lies.
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My opinion of AT&T, Comcast, Time Warner, Abbott and Associates, and California Association of Club Executives has gone up.
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Never mind, I missed one page of the PDF. |
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It's an interesting issue, but that could be extortion. He should send the letter to the San Diego D.A. and, when they refuse to look into it, Jerry Brown. He should also, of course, say, fine, publish away.
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What I really wish I could do is picket the Yes on H8 offices. But then I would have to go to Sacramento and that just isn't worth it.
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The Yes on 8 people are up and down OSO pkwy and Alicia.
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We need a list of all the supporters (besides the LDS church) who are financing Yes on 8.
Now that I think about it, this is probably one of the largest examples of a church forcing its will on the state. |
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The pdf threat mentions something about undoing -- in the name of majority rule -- what four "unelected jurists" have done The irony there clearly escapes them.
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And every name on the list is of a religous nature it would seem. You know - I don't tell them how to run their churches - but boy would I like to.
My daughter would really like to go to church with her friend. My husband and I do no attend church... we both did growing up, going to youth group etc and then realizing it was just not for us. We won't let her go to church with her friend and their family. We've offerend to let her go with our mother in law instead - and she doesn't want to. It's more of doing stuff with her friend then going to church. But this prop 8 BS just confirms that we totally made the right decision. I have no idea what silly ideas they'll try and brainwash her with and I have no intention of going to church first to find out. Call me close minded if you want. I just can't get over people telling others to hate. The twisting of the words of the bible, the cherry picked things that are chosen to follow and ignore. It's just sickening. There is just no realy grasp of the "practice what you preach". |
I'm going to have to start taking the 133 to and from work just to avoid all the people with Yes on 8 signs out there. They invoke such feelings of anger. I thought Jesus said don't judge, love everyone.
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I'm actually thinking of plastering the area with my own signs on telephone poles and such, just so I can drive to work feeling good instead of pissed off. I totally understand how ya feel, BTD.
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By the way, has anyone had a chance to complete the challenge yet? I'm planning on doing it this weekend. There are only 11 days left till the election.
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I heard a new ad on the radio this morning - must better. Directly addresses the teaching kids about marriage angle.
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EQCA has been spreading the word about the threatening letters from the 'protect marriage' people.
In happy news my parents are both voting NO on 8. I didn't even have to try and convince them. |
I wonder why Apple waited so long, but they've announced their opposition to Prop 8 and a $100K donation to the No campaign. Better late than never.
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I'm beginning to think that the swing in the polls to show that "Yes" was pulling ahead is a good thing for defeating 8. It is pushing people who weren't speaking up (and donating) to come out of the closet.
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ETA: Actually, that might explain why Apple waited. They may have been asked to hold off for a bit, hoping to pick a moment where enough people were paying attention for it to make a decent impact. |
I stopped by the Dem office here and they said they have run out of No on 8 stickers due to demand, and that more are on the way. :)
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The Irvine office said they have been photocopying No on 8 stuff to hand out. I'm going to stop by on my way home.
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When I went to a No on 8 fundraiser the other day the rep from the campaign said that they were saving a lot of money initially (due to limited resources), so that they could blitz the airwaves in the next few weeks.
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LA Times Opinion section has a bit on the threatening letters the Yes on 8 campaign has been sending out.
Story here. I also emailed several news stations, maybe they'll pick it up if enough people contact them. |
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Gah, the lies are so infuriating!
I passed someone today holding a sign reading, "Prop 8 = Parental Rights". What the hell? It has absolutely nothing to do with parental rights. It might as well have said, "Prop 8 = saving puppies' lives!" for all it has to do with reality. Coming back the other way my anger got the best of me and as I slowed to turn the corner these jokers were on, I had my window down and yelled, "That's a lie and you know it!" The liar smiled and waved. |
Looking on my news station {I think they are the ones who send my my updates} I saw that on each page, they have a 'Yes on 8' ad. :mad:
Today, after a dryspell, I received more emails. I replied this way, and you tell me, was I rude or what? "We are voting for Obama and voting No. on Prop H8. Please refrain from sending any more political emails. We personally find them offensive and hateful." and "As you know, I am against Prop 8. I won't deny anyone the security of being married to the one that they love. And, honestly, we are all brothers and sisters under one God, I think that He wouldn't want us to treat one another this way. Look into your heart and be leery of how others interpret the bible. But, that is my opinion and you are welcome to yours. Love to you" Go ahead and guess which one was to my sister and which one to my fil? My sis, bless her. She just doesn't get it, you know? |
I think they were good emails.
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Thanks, BTD.
Not a word back on either front. |
Here's a great No on 8 article that should be spread around. It's written by someone in the LDS church who opposes Prop 8:
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This is a wonderful story.
It has been many moons since I said that a Catholic priest actually inspired me. Today, after 22 years, I found one: Quote:
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Apparently the "other side" is doing similar things. I got a letter - okay a folded up 8 1/2 x 11 paper with yes on 8 garbarge inside and a post it note with a note addressed to my husband and myself.
Signed Kevy. (I only know one Kevy and I rather doubt it's from kevybaby.;) ) Return address is a suite of businesses in corona on magnolia. Looking at google street view it's on magnolia and ontario. Anyway, no last name. No balls at all. Frankly, if someone is going to send out that crap, they should at least have the balls to put their name on it. I'm trying to decide if I should bring the letter to the address and go to each suite listed and see if they support it. And then they can kiss my ass if they do. Easy enough to tell them they've lost my business if it applies. No name on it - long list of suites - clearly the person can't back up their beliefs. It really pissed me off getting it. Like hate mail or something was delivered. |
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On my way home I had some words with a Yes on 8 supporter at the corner of Alicia and Trabucco.
Me: Don't vote to take away rights! Supporter: They already have rights! Me: Exactly! YOU'RE trying to take them away! Supporter - starts to walk away Me: You know I'm right or you wouldn't be walking away. Supporter - turns around Me: What would Jesus do? I don't think he'd be cool with being hateful and discriminatory towards others. Supporter - She opens her mouth to say something Me: you know I'm right and the light turned green. --- Probably not the smartest thing to do, but driving past them 10 times a week (2x a day x 5 days a week) gets to you. |
I wasn't able to get a "no on 8" yard sign because too many people already wanted them and they ran out. They hope to get some in soon.
I talked to our bus driver on the trip home (just a few minutes) and his question was about churches- that they'd have to change. No, churches (as far as I've seen) still get to choose who they marry. I didn't ask which way he was voting (if I take the bus again, maybe I will) but at least he's voting. Minor. I know. I gave all the corner "yes" supporters the thumbs down over the weekend. I doubt they saw it but I can't pass and do nothing. |
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I had a conversation with my LDS co-worker today. He's voting Yes (I tried, and I'll keep trying). On a positive note he doesn't believe the campaign ads on TV about teaching in school and thinks it's messed up to use the MA laws as what will happen in CA (and he shares that information with others).
He also thinks that regardless of what way the election goes people who are gay will eventually have the actual right to marry. I ended the conversation asking him who will stand up when people come for his rights, or his daughters rights. No answer. |
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Yeah. That. |
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Well, almost always... |
Yay - there have been yes on 8 supporters flipin everywhere around here. And on the streetcorners morning and night. Finally today a group of No on 8 supporters took up another street corner with mostly hand made signs - YAY. I honked like mad for them.
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How in the fvck can the Yes on 8 campaign get away with blatant lies about gay marriage being taught in schools in CA just because it is part of the MA curriculum?
Seriously, I'm asking. Isn't that slander or something? It's a complete and utter lie. I know the No on 8 commercials are countering it, but how can they say it to begin with? Edit - apparently some parents are not happy with the ads |
YES!
The other day I contacted some random person on Twitter who was asking about the churches-forced-to-marry thing. Basically, went to his profile, visited his site, commented there clarifying things. I just got an email from him... Secured another NO vote! :) |
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And yeah - I hear you on the arguing thing. It just makes me angry. I look at the few lawn signs in our neighborhood and think poorly of the people who live there. FYI - in the house that's for rent, the yes on 8 sign I mentioned before was down within a day. First it was kicked over, then removed. I like to think someoene called the rental company and said WTF. It was clearly the neighbors sign as it's now up in their yard and has been ever since. But now with the lawn signs, it's very easy to see who the neighborhood idiots are. Maybe we should avoid their houses on Halloween. We wouldn't want to catch "the bigotry" from them and their tainted candy. |
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their freedom to impose their religion on other people's relationships...
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I wasn't able to convince my two Mormon crewmates to at least abstain. :(
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crewmates?
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I'm not going to push my co-worker to hard. He's got common sense about him and he's doing what he feels is right. His issue is with the word "marriage" and that a "marriage" should only be between 2 people of opposite sex, in a church blessed by god. He doesn't have an issue taking away the term "marriage" from hetero couples who weren't married in a church either.
At least he's pushing that the campaign ads are full of lies to his friends who believe them. Maybe a last minute crisis of consciousness will hit some of the Yes on 8 people in the voting booth. |
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No - I think the yes on 8 folks should be shunned. they are either blindly following their church without thinking for themselves or are no better then those who would discriminate based on ones skin color.
They would shun others - why not let all the others shun them instead. I know - maybe I should be more accepting of those with different thoughts and values... but damnit - they ought to get a taste of their own medicine and see how bitter it is. |
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Frankly, they are two of the least hateful people I've ever known, so there's no mistaking their choice for hatefulness. Once I confirmed they are voting the way they are from their own volition rather than LDS decree, I had no choice of my own to but to respect their freedom of choice and cordially disagree with theirs. Quote:
It was enough to state my case, point out the hypocrisy of Mormons to foist their definition of marriage on others, and appeal to their lasting hurt that their personal view of the "right" definintion of marriage (i.e., male polygamy) has been made illegal by the determination of others. |
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ISM- that's a good way to handle it. We can all disagree, but it's definitely progress to handle that disagreement with respect and cordiality. The biggest problem I have with politics today is the vilification of the other side simply because they're "the other side".
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Two wrongs don't make a right.
I'm quickly losing respect for anyone who is voting Yes because the church told them so. I actually gained respect for my co-worker because he has his own thoughts on the issue. When one can have a discussion and back up their choices, it's one thing. When all they can do is spout lies and propaganda it's another. And it may be more than one religion, but LDS has funded something like 77% of the Yes on 8 campaign. They are the church I'm holding responsible for this campaign of hatred. |
ISM, what principled case did your Mormon friends make other than telling you to your face that your lifestyle was immoral? If there is such a case to be made, I haven't heard the Prop. 8 folks make it.
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Mark and Brian had a funny sketch I heard this morning that was a replay from yesterday... a spoof of the Yes on 8 ads... not sure if you can hear it but it really made fun of them. If you vote no on 8, you'll turn gay, so will your kids, even your dog will be gay, type of thing.
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My friend Stephanie wrote something amazing on her Facebook page about losing her father this past weekend and one of the difficulties her father's partner faced after Steph's dad's death.
It's much too long to post here. But I did re-post it on my Facebook page for people to read. It's a powerful piece. Check it out. |
So this morning on my way to work I looked at the corner where that stupid Yes sign is. The sign was still there, but also on the corner, in a more prominent position, was a No sign :)
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It is really funny. |
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Who am I to tell them what their moral code should be, and who are they to tell me? They would vote to outlaw drinking and smoking if given the opportunity. They are just trying to make the world a better place by their vote, based on their personal (I'm sure LDS-influenced) views of what a better place would look like. Certainly, I have a moral code that brooks little opposition. And I certainly vote and take other actions to make the world a better place in my view. Minding my own damn business and not impinging on the rights of others is my own view of a better place, but who am I to declare it must be the view of everyone? Funny, though, how they think nothing of voting to take away my rights to marry ... but have never once had a talk with me to influence my decisions to drink alcohol, smoke pot, or have sex with men. These discussions would have been fruitless, and I'm sure they knew that ... but I knew my asking them to abstain or vote No on 8 would be fruitless, and yet I certainly had that dicussion with them. I'm bothered they feel they can go into the voting boothy to take away my right to marry, but won't just ask me nicely not to marry another guy. Heheh. Still, their petty bigotry, intolerance, and religiousity small mindedness are but small elements of otherwise wonderful people. I will remain friends with them. My predilections for drinking, gettting high, and sucking dick are but small elements of the "otherwise" wonderful Zlick, and so they will remain friends with me. I tried. They are literally the only two people I know who will be voting Yes on 8, so I have no one else I can hope to convince. Still, I'd like to do something in these final days. I really dropped the ball on working to defeat Prop 8. |
How about distributing 100 flyers?
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Just spent my lunch arguing Prop 8 with some random guy I shared a table with in the food court. Sadly, I believe I was unsuccessful. He's convinced that his kids are going to be taught gay marriage in school, and nothing will convince him otherwise.
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Prop 8 is just full of hate
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I'm reading all these accounts of Mormons from out of state spending $30,000+ on Yes on 8, pouring their life savings into this.
How amazingly sad. To spend all your money trying to block someone else's right to marry in a state a thousand miles away. |
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These are misled people. They only want what's best and they are scared. They need to be educated, not locked away from reality, left victims of ignorance and evil persuasion. I hope no one would leave me behind when other revolutions show up on my doorstep. |
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Yep, it astounded me how my otherwise most good-hearted friends who, ya know, somehow feature some frontier Jesus Christ in their cult religion, can consider it the moral high ground to doom other people to a life of relative loneliness.
But if that's their moral viewpoint, how can they be "educated" out of it? Can you be educated out of yours? |
If a more logical argument were made, then yes, I hope I would adopt that viewpoint. I've tried to live my life by reasonably rational layouts, so if a better argument exists, I'd like to give it a chance.
I saw a new "no on 8" sign coming home from school today. Yay! |
I was driving home from work and saw two women on the corner with No on 8 signs. So after acknowledging them I drove to to the next light and bought poster board and a sharpie at Target, turned around and stood out with them for about an hour. One said "No on 8, don't hate" and the other said "don't vote to take away rights, No on 8". I got a lot more response to the 2nd sign.
The response overall was a lot more positive than I was expecting (South County at Alicia and Muirlands). Lots of honks, cheers from all ages, races and genders. Only 2 vehicles yelling at us - one was a middle aged man and the 2nd was 2 teenagedish boys who were confused if they should "like" or "dislike" Prop 8. If anyone is interested one of the women is going to be by El Toro and the 5 towards the In n Out side of the mall every day until the election. |
Yay - there's been a corner by me that's been Yes on 8 - and like 25 people every morning/eveining. Yesterday the No on 8 peeps got a small foothold on one corner. Tonight - they had three. I honked for them like mad. If I didn't have to be somewhere I would have stopped and pitched in.
And I just got a please vote No on 8 phone call explaining all the misinformation out there. |
BTD - That's awesome!
:snap: |
All 4 corners by my place had crowds of yeses waving their yellow signs. I turned right around and went to the market, then another, then another till I found posterboard. Made my own signs and went out there to counter protest. Some other No folks showed up around the same time. We stood on opposite sides of Trabuco waving our signs and exchanging friendly looks. One guy came over and gave me a lawn sign to stick on my corner next to the yes that was out there. He told me the yes people scatter like cockroaches the moment more than one No shows up.
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BTD: Awesome, thanks for stopping! That made my night when I saw your tweet about it.
Keeping my new posterboard signs in my car, for any opportunities that should arise in the next week. |
I love the guerilla counterprotest stories! Way to go, BTD and Goonie.
Maybe it's the area I live in, but I've yet to see a Yes on 8 sign or demonstration. I almost wish I would so I could follow the awesome example of you folks! |
I don't understand the "teaching marriage in school" issue. How exactly is marriage "taught"? And if marriage is a sacred religious ceremony and we should be up in arms at churches being "forced" to marry gay couples, why is marriage taught in schools at all?
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iSm: pick a corner, any corner, they're all lucky! :)
BTW: if you lived down here, you'd get pissed off every day, trust me, it's not fun constantly seeing those people. |
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Not sure if I posted this before, but I saw a bunch of No on 8 demonstrators at the plaza in downtown Orange. No counter demonstrators, which surprised me. The "support our troops" guys still show up to counter the peaceniks each Wednesday, and I see plenty of Yes on 8 stickers around.
It warmed the cockles of my heart ;) Yay to our resident demonstrators! You rule. |
I have two mormon churchs within eyesight and a third less than 4 miles from here (and on my way to work). I'm totally surrounded. I'd say easily every 5th car has a Yes sticker on it.
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Hmmm, there is the big Mormon Temple at Overland and Santa Monica. :evil:
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Does the city own the lawn (the side by the street) outside these buildings?
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I'm pretty sure that huge lawn is sovereign Mormon Territory.
But I'm not quite clear about the sidewalk out in front of the lawn. Still ... demonstrating to drivers along Santa Monica Boulevard on the West Side of L.A. would be like Preaching to the (Mormon Tabernacle) Choir. |
I saw a few No people on street corners in LB this weekend, but no Yes people out and about. Apparently, they were all in Orange County - lining up on PCH every few blocks all the way from Brookhurst to Sunset Beach.
Maybe we should have our own stand-in there. And, after NOT rear ending a car with a bumper sticker that says "Yes On 8 - Protect the Family" I've decided I need a bumper sticker that says "No on 8 - Protect Families" |
There was a large group of No on 8 out at PCH and Main Thursday, Friday and Saturday. It does seem that a lot of the Yes on 8 people mobilized down into OC. The further south and inland you go the more there are. It's the demographic.
The signs on my car say "Please don't take away the rights of my friends". I'm finding that people are more receptive to the fact that rights are being taken away then claims of protecting or not protecting families. |
I think I'm done arguing that gay marriage is not going to be taught in schools.
Screw that. My new response? "So? Alert the media! Our children are going to be taught about freedom in schools! Their teachers are going to teach them that in America, they're free to make their own choices about their lives! It's the end of our country as we know it!" |
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Why is election day always near Halloween? Who's the nimrod who thought that up?!
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Get all the scary stuff out of the way at once, I suppose.
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:D :p |
But your wascaly, alwight.
Sigh, just got a call from LHC asking me to volunteer on election day and had to turn them down. No more time off for me. I'm a bad, bad, fag. |
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Well, to be honest, if the gay dude really pulled the Yes on 8 sign out of someone's lawn and threw it in the street, he provoked some sort of reaction.
That's just not a cool thing to do, and we've discussed that very thing here in this thread. It's tempting, but wrong. The correct reaction is to put up a competing No on 8 sign, in the vicinity if possible. I'm not saying he deserved to get bashed. But it's not like the guy came running at him with the sign just because he was gay, or was advocating for a different electoral outcome. Again, that's IF the claims of the accussed are true. Admittedly a very BIG IF for a guy who reacts with violence ... about 200 times as WRONG as removing the lawn sign. |
On my way home last night, there were Yes on 8 Protesters on all four corners of Lambert and St College. Because of how I was feeling (bad cold), I did not stop. I spent all last night and today regretting that decision. On the drive home tonight, I decided that despite having zero energy, etc., I was going to stop and have a discussion.
Alas, they were not there. However, I saw the sign on the church on the NE corner: Protesters on the Corner Are Not From This Church It made my night :) |
An interesting article about the limbo the same-sex couples who married in CA will be in if Prop 8 passes.
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One woman lives in HB and will be closer to home. The other woman will be by the Laguna Hills mall, near In n Out. No idea what time though. I think NoOn8.org has a sign up for demonstrating and working election day. I can't do any of the times. Stupid work. :( |
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Well that's a relief, because the way the amendment is written, "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California," seems to indicate that the state would no longer recognize those marriages.
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Ooh, I like this quote: (from Wikipedia)
"Marriage is ... something more than a civil contract subject to regulation by the state; it is a fundamental right of free men.... Legislation infringing such rights must be based upon more than prejudice and must be free from oppressive discrimination to comply with the constitutional requirements of due process and equal protection of the laws." - CA Supreme Court, 1948 |
This is not going away, no matter what the result of the election is.
I believe the lawsuit challenging Prop 8's legality to remove fundamental rights from the California Constitution will be successful (if, after Tuesday, it becomes necessary). |
Of course it's not going away, people, once granted their rights, are not just going to give up and go back to the way things were. But it's going to cost the state millions if the fight has to continue. And I'd much rather this not have to escalate to the Federal level at this time... I don't think the country's ready to do right by it.
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Gah, I can't turn it off. Pulling into a parking lot at lunch there was someone with a sign with their back to me. I couldn't see the sign, so as I sat there waiting for the left turn light to change, I felt myself getting tenser, gripping the steering wheel thinking, "That better be a "No" sign. Grrrrrrrr."
The light changed, I turned. "$5 footlongs at Subway" :blush: |
Oh, there's a gay joke in there somewhere ... but I'm too tired.
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I'm really tempted to print out "don't take away rights" flyers and put them on cars with Yes on 8 stickers.
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I might print myself a sign for the back window of my car.
"Freedom and Equality. No on 8" |
What about the real traditional meaning of marriage?
Two people committed to loving and caring for each other. These people saying that "marriage is in jeopardy" must be in cold, meaningless relationships, if the legal definition of somebody else's marriage determines the value of their own. |
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But some people *do* gauge their family and their lives by comparison with others. If the club's open to too many other people, they feel less special.
Or they think that gay people can't possibly mean their commitments in the way that straight people do (because getting married at the drive-through chapel in Vegas and getting divorced when the weekend ends is so committed). Personally I think celebrities have done a lot of damage to the idea of marriage and if anything, I'd like to see *that* change. |
The Sam Jackson ad ran during 30 Rock here in the SF Bay Area. Gave me chills.
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Lies are the currency of political campaigns, and especially of those on the side of EVIL.
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The latest Field Poll shows the measure trailing 49-44%. This pollster's last poll, in September had it trailing by 17%.
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We as a culture are ok with being lied to. We may yell about it, but people that lie for gains are not totally ruined for doing so. I tend to have a black and white opinion on this myself, so I get pissed when I think about the concept of lying as an accepted necessary evil. Personally, I can envision a serious system where if you tell outright lies about what your ballot measure will do in order to not only get your measure passed but to actually frighten people, the measure should be disqualified.
This is why I am not a politician :) |
Not just disqualified, but under certain circumstances, there should be a penalty involved. Seems like it's okay to say just about whatever you want about these props and other politicians and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Well - I guess you could sue for slander or libel against another person, but a prop. can't sue people it's opponents for lying about it.
The lies can be very outlandish with just an inkling of truth or perceived truth and that's all that matters. You can't trust any of the ads - and very few people are going to really do the research to find out the truth. And even then, how many people that read the entire prop's literature, actually grasp what it really means. And one wonders why politics are all effed up and we have budget problems. |
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If Prop 8 passes, gay marriage will be taught in schools (to the extent that marriage is discussed in schools anyway). I have no problem with that. It is called informing children of the reality in which they live. It is kind of like bitching that if anti-miscegenation laws are overturned it would be bad because mixed race marriages will be taught in schools.
But the segment of the population bothered by that is already used to preferring a world in which public schools lie to children to support religious teaching. |
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The average school administrator likes to avoid controversy, so I imagine that when marriage is discussed, neutral terms like spouse will be used. This will undoubtedly annoy some. I also think that schools will avoid "reading time" books that feature straight romances out of concern that gay parents will lobby for stories featuring gay romances.
I think gay marriage is more likely to be "taught," if at all, in high schools as part of a civil rights discussion. |
Oh, and I assume that at some point, some adventurous drama teacher will try to do a gay version of "Marty."
"When you gonna get married, Marty, hah? When you gonna get married?" "I'm a big ugly man, ma. I'm a big, dumb ugly man. What guy would have me?" |
Woohoo, passed a pair of "No" sign waivers today!
One thing that it made me realize, as car after car went by honking and waving, for all the "Yes" signs I've passed I haven't seen anyone honking and waving like that at all. I don't know whether to be encouraged or worried by that. On the one hand, it's really great to see that there's more vocal support for the "No" signs. On the other hand, with the poll numbers already so tight, it makes concerned that there's something akin to the mythical Bradley effect where people aren't willing to outright admit their support. |
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I'm wondering with the polls so tight if there isn't going to be an anti-Bradley effect, where people aren't willing to outright admit their opposition, especially those who are religious. |
Brad, that ad was, like, so gay.
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I found the opposite. When I was standing among all those yes people with my no sign, the honking was insane. I found the No people far more likely to share a knowing nod, or a thumbs up. And that was true even when it was just the one yes lady and myself. No folks were quieter in expressing their support, whereas the yes people are honking and waving
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My "no" sign went up in my yard this afternoon. I hope it lasts until the election. I saw the "no" sign near the university campus has disappeared, replaced a bit further down the road with a "yes".
The "no" and Democratic groups have also recieved a donation from me, so that's double good! |
I also donated again today. I think you can do it directly on noonprop8.com (and also view the new ad narrated by Samuel Jackson). These ads are all much better than the mamsy-pamsy crap that the No on 8 camp was putting out initially.
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This purports to be a searchable database of everyone who has contributed for or against Prop 8, however I can't find my own name (three donations totalling $150) or my mom's (one, $100) either. It could be useful in determining which businesses to boycott for supporting it, but I am having trouble getting any useful results.
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Yeah that database is odd as I don't appear for multiple donations (though I love how only 3 out of pages and pages of people in Valley Village donated for prop 8).
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Bill Clinton just called and asked me to vote no on 8.
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Watch the other videos by the people that did the one GC linked, they're all funny. And have the best. slogan. ever.
Here's another cute YouTube ad (by someone else): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU4udzEbcdQ |
Have you guys seen this more recent ad? Caught it on tv yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj-0xMrsyxE (can't remember if anyone else posted this yet) |
Haha... another ad by the people GC linked earlier.
Seem familiar? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cILkvO-tSw |
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Spreading the word about the Yes on 8 fliers out there that imply that Obama supports the Yes on 8 campaign. Obama has stated that he is opposed to Prop 8.
Spread the word. Quote:
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GC, maybe this is expedient, but it's BS. Obama says he's opposed to gay marriage. Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act. The Bible says nothing about same sex marriage because it says that homosexuality is an abomination. Who is this ad supposed to appeal to/trick?
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It is supposed to be a response to the lies of the Yes on 8 campaign, these statements aren't coming out of the blue. When someone says that Obama supports prop 8 when Obama does not, that is a lie. When someone says that gay marriage is talked about in the bible, when it is not, that is a lie.
I've read blogs and chatted with many people who don't believe in gay marriage but are voting no on 8 because they don't believe that their view of marriage should control everyone's, or that something discriminatory should be written into the CA Constitution, or that gay people getting married (even though they don't see it as a religious/"real" marriage) doesn't affect their own religious/"real" marriage. Saying you don't believe in gay marriage and a "yes" vote are not inextricably linked. Obama, Clinton, Biden, Schwartzenegger (who vetoed a bill which would legalize gay marriage, the bastard), etc. can believe that a "no" vote is the proper vote. So nobody's being "tricked" here. |
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We got a recorded call from Bill Clinton urging us to vote no on prop 8. There's no trick involved. Yes, they both have a less than helpful history on the issue, but they both officially oppose the prop. |
Clinton called me, too, and I hung up on him. When he signed the Defense of Marriage Act, I wrote him a critical letter. His fence sitting response was that he did not support discrimination against gay people. However, he said, the bill came before him and he signed it. Then, crickets. No attempt to reconcile the two responses. His support now is hypocritical garbage given that, even if 8 loses, the federal government does not have to recognize California's same sex marriages.
As for Obama, I submit that when someone is asked if they support gay marriage, the question is do they support gays being allowed to enter into state-recognized marriage. If someone says "No, I don't support gay marriage," that means they do not support gays being allowed to enter into state-recognized marriage. One can, perhaps, answer "I don't care what the state does, but I would object to my church performing such ceremonies," but, to my knowledge, Obama did not offer that refinement. If he's offering it now, it's inconsistent with what he said before. I also don't see it as a terrible distortion to say that the Bible is against same sex marriage when it's against same sex sex. The No on 8 approach should not be about Bible study pilpul. |
Really, it's complete Bullsh!t that Obama's against Prop 8. He doesn't support Gay Marriage, i.e., he supports Prop 8. Less talking out of both side of his mouth might make me less disposed to not vote for him Tuesday.
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One of the big things that has turned me off to McCain is his illegal immigration crap.....he plays both sides of that issue in completely non spinable ways. |
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Regarding Clinton and Obama's anti-gay marriage stances...I really do think times are changing regarding gay rights and that in the midst of it there is going to be some leftover debris from an earlier age. The electorate that is coming of age isn't going to let this crap go on for much longer and it's just a matter of time. If either of them were for prop 8 I'd be seriously pissed off. But they are not, and they're not sitting on the fence either. Even though they both have a poor past on the issue, they are both against the prop, and to me, that's progress. Ask McCain or Palin about their stance, contrast, compare. |
I'm not saying McCain's better on the issue. I'm saying nothing turns me off about a politician much more than taking BOTH sides of an issue via cowardice or expediency.
I understand Obama thinks he can't get elected if he supports gay marriage. But coming out against Prop 8 IS supporting existing gay marriage rights. He can't have it both ways ... at least not with me. Ugh, he's not president-elect till tomorrow and already the lies start. |
Regardless of whether either candidate comes out for or against Prop 8, to me it is (mostly) irrelevant. I don't want my Presidential candidate to be focusing on a state issue Yes, this can/will be a national issue at some point, but it isn't right now. My decision as to who I should vote for as President is NOT going to be based on their position on California's Proposition 8.
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There were a lot of new "Yes on 8" signs that popped up last night in front of our property (I live in a condo).
There were a lot of hand-made "No on 8" signs that appeared along Imperial Hwy in Brea. Most of them used familiar catch phrases for the cause, but I was amused by the one that read "Insert Witty Slogan - Vote No on 8." |
Yesterday I saw a lot more No on 8 signs, quite a few of them were near Yes on 8 signs. I also saw a lot more hand made signs.
I have to say that a lot of people have been surprising me with their decision to vote no. They aren't religious but they aren't people you would automatically assume they would be voting no. I've lost one friend over this (she deleted me from her Facebook and won't return my communication attempts) and the only other person I know [of] who is voting Yes is my co-worker, who [as I listed above] has beliefs beyond "the church told me so". |
BTD,
I know how you must be feeling, because it happened to me. In 2004, I lost a very close friend because I wouldn’t vote to reelect President Bush. After 9/11 he became very conservative politically. It got to the point where every conversation became a political argument. Finally during a phone call one night, after I again stated I’d never vote for Bush, he got nasty and called me a “liberal wacko”. I hung up on him. He emailed me saying that he was ending our friendship because I “lacked the ability to communicate” (i.e.: I had an opinion different from his). It still hurts, but I realize now that it was for the best. Our relationship had become toxic. Hang in there. Real friends will respect your opinions, even if they do not agree with them. |
On Saturday evening, we pulled up to some Yes protesters. I rolled down my window (much to S's consternation) and asked "Why do you want to take away people's rights?" The response was, of course, that they weren't taking away people's right's. There were more words exchanged of course, but I don't recall the rest.
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I can't express enough how great it feels to see my friends and even some family members showing their passionate support for the No on 8 campaign. It makes me smile. No matter what happens tomorrow, I'll be okay because I know I'm lucky to be in such good company.
:) |
Saw hand painted on the back windshield of a car yesterday "I didn't vote on your marriage".
On my Yes on 8 streetcorner on the way to work the No's had taken over one corner again. They're more of a ragtag bunch with handmade signs but they're more energetic than the bland Yes on 8 peeps with their pre-made signs. |
On the way over to Erik's on Saturday, I noticed several Yes signs surrounding the creepy white Stepford Family statue that guards Foothill Ranch. A few hours later, they were gone. That made me happy.
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Oh almost forgot - creepy bumper stickers yesterday. This car had like 5 of them plastered all over it. There were two creepy kid faces, a boy and a girl, the sticker said "Pleeeaaaseee give us a Mommy and a Daddy".
The kids were creepy looking and it made no sense anyway. There are tons of single parent families, for whatever reason, are you going make them all marry someone of the opposite sex? |
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BTD & JWBear;
I haven't posted in a bit, been in a whirlwind of schtuff. But, my sister, who I sent the email, to, well, I've lost her over other less important things before. But, at first she said the email that I sent her kept freezing the computer {it was her email, just forwarded back to her}. When she finally received it, she said I was wrong. But, seriously, I have lost her before over other things, always, not going along with her. Or, making her happy. Once, I sent her one of those happy emails about sisterly love/friendship and her response to me was 'I haven't felt that way in a long time'. Funny, cause I know people who I see rarely, even if after years, and, it is always the same, we never dislike someone because we haven't been able to chat or hang out. The damn yes signs, all over the main road. Isn't that illegal? It is public property. I don't think people should be allowed to put them out there. I am maybe going to take my son to election central tomorrow night. I think that, as like some others here, I want to be with others when things come down. |
I'm picking up a No on 8 sign from my client. I live close to the local polling place. Better late than never.
Another client left me a note that said "Please take down the Obama sign in our window after he wins the election". :) |
There is an effort to reach out on election day, but which requires attending training tonight. If anyone wants to participate, pm me and I'll forward the info.
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I think I'm going to a gaybar with my friend tomorrow night. I'm a little scared about being there if 8 passes. Though I would hope they would know I'm not the moron who voted yes.
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They know me there, but still. |
Interestingly, ABC out here went with a story about Mormon moms with homosexual children. They're holding a vigil against Prop 8.
I haven't seen the story for myself, yet, but I'm sure it'll get more coverage as I heard a radio ad for Fox running a similar storyline. Doubtful it'll be on our NBC affiliate as it is essentially run by the church. |
They've reached a whole new level of appalling behavior... the yes people just hired a skywriter to write:
"Save traditional marriage Vote yes on prop 8" OVER DISNEYLAND :mad: Then they circled and started writing again. (Disneyphile is there today and called to share this info) |
The LA Times endorses NO on Prop 8:
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It's a good write up that highlights the lies the Yes camp has been spewing. |
I ended up calling the cops on a huge Yes on 8 demonstration at an intersection near my office.
It all started out 'innocently enough'. I was arguing with kids about it. Those poor kids were so misinformed (not surprised). I told them that churches will not be forced to marry gay people, nor should they and they should research state and federal laws - just because something happened in MA doesn't mean it will happen here. I also asked them why someone would want to get married in a place where people don't approve of their relationship. I saw the look in their eyes changed when I was talking to them. I probably shouldn't have told them their parents are homophobic and their parents and church are telling them lies. While I was arguing with them I saw the protesters (kids too) impeding the flow of traffic by standing(kids too) in the crosswalks preventing people from turning right, which in turn was backing up traffic to another stoplight. Close to 100 people were in a very small intersection at rush hour was creating a huge traffic hazard and putting kids in danger. All I said when I called was that there was a very large political demonstration at x location that is causing a traffic hazard by standing in the street and putting kids in danger. |
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That intersection is bad enough at 5pm, it doesn't need idiots in the street blocking traffic to make it worse. |
Standing on streetcorners is fine, blocking traffic not so much.
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 I already can't stand the "Yes on 8" bigots. But, today, they crossed the line to damn near pure hatred by me for bringing their ****ing hatred to the skies over Disneyland. I don't think any political **** belongs in Disneyland, let alone political **** that spouts such horrible messages such as this lowly crap. It's a good thing I didn't see any sign-carriers on my drive home, because it would have taken everything to hold me back from driving over to them and ripping their ****ing heads off. (Yeah, it takes a lot to get me this pissed, and I'm pissed.) However, from what I could see, most guests and CMs were very upset over it, so hopefully that will be a sign that this proposition won't pass. My sister even brought up a good point - she works with severely handicapped children who are results of extreme abuse in "traditional" marriages who were conceived and not wanted or not planned. She deals with kids with smashed-in heads, etc., because the "traditional spouse" chose to repeatedly slam them against a wall or floor. She said that with gay marriages, there is no chance for an unwanted or unplanned child, and that she trusts gays more than "traditional" marriages because of that. |
So, I had an idea and I'm giving it a whirl over at Facebook.
I'm sending people messages to see if they will (for just tonight and tomorrow) change their Profile Pictures to this:  I figured it's worth a shot. Everyone sees the Profile Pic. It goes everywhere. Visibility! United front! No on 8! :) |
DP- I'm sorry. That's awful. I agree that politics is not well suited to Disney.
One more day. |
I hope they at least lost some "yes" votes because of it. It's just so beyond tacky.
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Done.
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Sorry :( |
16 people so far did it.
I am all teary-eyed. :) :blush: |
I haven't seen that kind of skywriting before. Is it essentially a dot matrix printer out the back of the plane?
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Yes, it is basically several planes (five it looks like in this case) flying together putting out puffs of smoke in synchronization. |
Honestly, it has probably been years since I've seen skywriting of any type and that was at Disneyland and it was the traditional write it out type.
Outside of LA I've probably seen skywriting used maybe a half dozen times in my life. |
Yeah, amazing how all that money can go into good things like hurting the faggots, rather than stuff like education, or feeding the homeless. Some of these bastards put their LIFE SAVINGS into hurting the fvcking queers, it means that much to them. It isn't that just some people hate you, it's that so goddamn MANY people hate you because of something that doesn't affect them.
It is really difficult not to hate them back, because right know I really, really do. I'm absolutely seething. |
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ETA: oops, didn't see the next page before replying |
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But someone beat me to it. |
On a personal front ... things are heating up among another group of friends of mine that includes a few ... ahem ... MORMONS.
This could get ugly. I hope and pray things turn out ok tomorrow. |
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I changed my profile image on Facebook and MySpace to the NO on 8 button. I also tagged everyone I knew was supporting the NO on 8 campaign in the the photo so it would appear in their friends' news feeds ;)
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At the corner of Ventura Blvd. and Topanga Canyon this afternoon, there were a TON of Yes on 8 signs, those stupid things that say "Protect Marriage"- I got off the bus for a bit to have some fun with the supporters.
I went to Office Depot, down the street, got a sheet of posterboard, and with my handy Sharpie, whipped up my own sign. One side - "Protect Justice- NO ON 8" Other side - "Keep Seperate Church And State - NO ON 8" |
MOTHERF*CKERS!... They pushed their yes ads into my myspace too!
Okay guys, remember that they pay for click-throughs... so click away, cost them money! |
I also sent out a No On 8 bulletin
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Can Godwin's law be applied to elections? He automatically loses, right?
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What this guy fails to remember is that homosexuals were also in Hitler's concentration camps. It's desperate of him to link gays to Hitler. I hope that video stays around until his children and their children can see it and realize that he is a bigot. |
I think it's funny that on (other) boards people are offended when you call them a homophobic bigot for voting yes on 8. I'm just tellin' it like it is!
I mean, if you told an African-American that he/she couldn't marry their white significant other because God had made the races separate for a reason, then... omigod you'd be a fvcking racist bigot (or living before the 1960s in the South). And sorry, but the "I have a black friend!" thing isn't gonna make you any less of one, dumba$$. |
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If 8 fails (and I will say if, not when because it's so fvcking close) I think we need to have a Yes on 8 sign bonfire.
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Aww. Boo plastic.
Is 8 a majority rule to fail/pass or must have x% of the vote to fail/pass? |
It must pass with 50% plus 1.
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Also, did anyone catch the Daily show last night? He did a bit on Prop-8. There is a link at http://www.thedailyshow.com/ Quote:
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Who the fvck is Steve Young?
Of course all my posts regarding anything to do with the state of UT come with a profanity non-filter. ;) |
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MF'ing Steve Young Watch the run at 0:43. More to the point, Steve Young is a moderate Republican whom people assume will run for office. Also, since he didn't get married until his late 30s, there was a lot of speculation that he was gay. |
And he's something of a 'Mormon hero'... or so I've been told.
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Then he's definitely gay. His wife's a beard.
All the mormons are gay. Methinks they doth protest too much. If they can't have 20 wives, they won't have none ... I think that's their new creed as they breed their wives for duty, then go on to their secret cocksvcking pleasures. (Yes, I'm none too happy with Mormons today) |
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If it passes I'll be at Santa Monica and San Vicente tomorrow, marching towards the Mormon Temple in Westwood.
If I can get a couple thousand friends to join me, that is. We didn't get arrested during the AB101 marches, I doubt that a peaceful, i.e., no destruction of property, march would get us arrested now. Nice, easy, beginner protest march, straight down Santa Monica Blvd. and back. I'm thinking 4 or 5 in the evening. Fvcks up traffic all kinds of ways. "You don't like being stuck in traffic? Go home and tell your wife!" |
A friend of mine texted me to say he and a pal went around town last night and removed about 60 Yes on 8 signs. Says his hands are dirty.
I've been tempted to do the same, but have always resisted. Yet I can't say I wasn't tickled to learn of this. So I texted back, "But your soul is clean." He responded that, in all seriousness, his hands were covered in this oily gunk that coats the signposts, and was really hard to get off. I wrote back, "Yes, but still easier to remove than the stain on some people's hearts." We have Mormon friends in common. Le sigh. |
Someone stuck a Yes on 8 sign on our office property. I got to take it down. It felt good to crumple it up.
And now a Jeep with Yes on 8 signs all over it is driving around my business park honking an air horn for attention. |
I love it, I drove Missy to her program this morning and there was a long row of 'yes on 8' signs...and someone had gone thru and did the big red circle with the slash on each and every one!
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OC Voter turn out way down.
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I just got back from voting. (I left work early at 3:30.) A very short line at our polling place - about 4-5 people in front of us.
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Yep, OC voters please stay home. Your Selfish Conservative Ways of Rule are Over (for now), so go hide in your McMansions and don't come out till January 20.
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Too late, but I found this kind of chilling.
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This is early but....
Yes: 57% No: 43% (CNN.com) |
I think I'm gonna be sick.
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2% reporting. But still :(
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From Andrew - results by area
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Remember... If it passes, it will be immediately challenged in court. All is not lost.
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I'm sad about 8. Very, very sad. Why are so many people so full of hate, or so stupid that they can be swayed by these morons?
:( We'll have to fight it. |
There's a gay guy over at a fairly large message board who is in full support of 8.
I think that pisses me off even worse. |
Most of the counties that are reporting so far are heavily red counties. There is still hope.
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Yes 54%
No 46% The gap is closing! When San Francisco and the other 90% of LA (nearly 1/4 of the state population) reports in, I think we'll see better results. |
I'm halftomistic.
But ready to act up, if need be. |
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It's not loading for any of us where I am :(
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I'm not liking the numbers, last I saw was 55%, but only like 10% reporting.
Hopefully that means only Fresno was in? |
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But not by county. I want by county!!!!!!!
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Secretary of State official results (where the last info came from)
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Go here. It works fine. I also can't get the SOS site to work.
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okay, less than 10% of precincts reporting, after checking abc and cbs.
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I'm VERY disappointed in LA County. But, the OC number is just astonishing - and GROSS! I ****ing HATE OC.
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OMG - This is such a sh!tty load on an otherwise fantastic night. I'm going to bed now, but I hope this has pulled together by tomorrow morning. (*sigh*)
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Sacramento Voted
56% Yes 44% No WTF!!:mad: |
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STC?
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Back down to 54/46 per CNN.
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15% reporting, still 55% assh0le
edit: err.... 54% |
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What is wrong with this country??
Arizona Proposition 102: Ban on Gay Marriage 56% Yes, 44% No Arkansas Initiative 1: Ban on Gay Couples Adopting Children 57% Yes, 43% No Florida Amendment 2: Ban on Gay Marriage 62% Yes, 38% No |
Shame, shame
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OK, this is a little odd.
The CA SOS site reports: 23.2% Reporting 1,698,447 - Yes 1,421,309 - No The CNN site reports: 22% Reporting 1,943,806 - Yes 1,655,645 - No How do higher counts provide a lower percentage? |
2 Counties left, Sutter and Mono.....
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LA county is only at 10% reporting (per CNN). With 1/4 of the state's population, it would only take a move of a few percentage points to the "no" column in LA to tip the whole state.
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And according to the CA SOS site, the percentage is now:
53.4 - Yes 46.6 - No |
CNN, Maybe I should put my glasses on. :blush:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/res...unty/#CAI01map |
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Shame on the whole fvcking state. |
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SF ROCKS!!
75% NO |
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53-47 with 25% reporting! Move baby move! Maybe LA can save it?
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CA SOS with 28.5% reporting:
52.5% - Yes 47.5% - No |
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Modoc is 74.8% Yes
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Alex: thanks, I was misreading and getting totally disgusted
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Fvckin religious nazijackholelyingSoBs of Orange County.
On behalf of the population of OC who thinks taking away rights is WRONG, I apologize. I do not represent nor associate with such twatwaffles. I am LIVID! It sounds like they have 3.2 million left to count in LA county. |
If CNN's county numbers are right then Napa and Santa Cruz have barely begun. Most of the other Bay Area counties have a long way to go still.
Hoping, hoping, hoping. |
Watching the people cheering that 8 is passing makes me want to puke.
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It seems like Prop 8 is going to pass.
But please remember that this isn't the end of the fight. This matter will go before the courts again. Also it's important to remember who supported 8 and fight back. Find out which hotel magnate supported the Yes campaign and never stay at any of his hotels. And avoid any support of any Mormon run business, charities... heck I don't even buy CDs by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Yes, some people will say that this is me being close-minded and petty. But I feel that this course of action will make the people who think we don't count, who think that our relationships are not as important as theirs take notice and realize that they are 100% wrong in this matter. Also, think on these people as allies. You want to send a gift to someone who has everything? Donate a gift to one of these organizations in their name. Volunteer at these organizations. Write them a thank you note. There's so much you can do. If you're mad, do something about it. |
Yes on 8 Supporters:
Churches & Ministries Spoiler:
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Yes on 8 Supporters:
Public Officials Spoiler:
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More Yes Supporters:
Organizations Spoiler:
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dammit. up to 6%. |
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So worried about 8.
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Even More:
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Thanks for the lists of companies and organizations to boycott!! :snap:
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52-48 with 69% of precincts reporting
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Contra Costa only has 44% of precincts reporting so far. They're populous enough to help! Right now 54-46 AGAINST :)
Los Angeles has only 65% of precincts in so far, unfortunately tiped 52-48 FOR - let's hope that WeHo hasn't been counted yet, that could shift things Monterey reporting 34% of precincts, 52-48 AGAINST :) Not the biggest county, but more votes against will help San Francisco's almost fully in, so no help there, but they were 77-23 AGAINST in a nice populous area Santa Clara 55-45 AGAINST, with only 53% reporting, and enough population to have an impact (thought not enough to swing it) |
It saddens me that 8 passed. There are employees I work with, people that I like, that voted yes on 8. I'm having a hard time thinking nicely of them at the moment. To think that they would willingly deprive someone of rights makes me think less of them. I don't want to feel that way, but can't help it.
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The CNN breakdown by age looks promising though. It shows 63% No in voters under 30. There's still hope for the future.
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I am ashamed and embarrassed to be a Californian today. |
Does the passing of 8 imply that all the recent gay marriages in the state will be annulled?
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No one has called it yet, but with 95% reporting and a ~400,000 vote lead it looks like it's going to pass. I went to bed last night with the hopes of waking up to a different story this morning. It's amazing how I can go from feeling so proud of our country watching Barack give his victory speech to so disgusted. I will wait until the result is official, but I plan on printing a sign for my car: "Prop 8: Congratulations Bigots" :mad: |
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I am so disgusted by the majority of the population in this state. |
My co-worker said there are 3 million absentee ballots to count still. Can anyone verify?
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Hmm, I read that absentee ballots were counted first.
Either way, absentee ballots tend to skew conservative, so I wouldn't hold my breath on that. ETA: Here's corroboration of the 3 million figure. That would include provisional ballots as well as absentee. |
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According to the KNX website, the amendment will take effect immediately. The first Lesbian couple to be married in L.A. county is filing a lawsuit claiming the amendment is unconstitutional, as is the San Francisco city attorney.
I have to drive to Redlands today to make a delivery, last time I was there my waitress proudly introduced me to her female fiancee. I hope they were able to get married before this shiat. I'm disgusted. |
A bit of ignorance re: law, but I believe I'm right in thinking that federal constitutional law trumps state, yes? So if "separate but equal" has by precedent been deemed unconstitutional at the federal level, wouldn't that hold at the state level, even ignoring the "can't take away rights with a simple majority" precedent?
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It was such a buzz kill to read the LA Times newspaper headline this morning.
Big letters proclaiming Obama's win and directly under that in pretty big font "Gay Marriage Opposition Takes Early Lead" or something like that. Ugh. Some will disagree with me but I knew 8 would pass when I looked at how well-funded Yes was. Way more money than No. I am glad there are lawsuits being filed against 8 already. A struggle for equal rights is a long process. I also wonder why the Mormon Church still has their tax-exempt status. Why doesn't something like this affect that status? Just curious. I am glad Massachusetts still has marriage equality. |
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Proposition 8 The Bigots Win This Round |
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ETA: Here are the pertinent lines in the IRS code: no substantial part of [a 501(c)(3) organization's] activities" may consist of "carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation."9 The second restriction mandates that 501(c)(3) organizations may "not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office." Yeah, I'm going to have to say there's a pretty good case to be made that the Mormon church's substantial contributions violate the "influence legislation" clause in a big way, so don't count on anything happening. That said, the IRS has never enforced that clause, and the question of that clause's Constitutionality in regards to free speech has never been challenged. |
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According to the CA SOS site... There are 17.3 million registered voters (74.5% of those eligible to vote), but there were only 10.5 million votes cast - 60.7% turnout.
What a differnece that other 7 million could have made. :mad: |
I find it interesting that it's 52 - 48 yes while Prop 4 is 52-48 no.
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Obviously, this is just my uneducated two cents on the subject.
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Again, I am not arguing for the LDS church (I am no fan of them), but just giving my $0.02. |
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(Joking here kids - don't take this post seriously!) |
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Hey, give the Mormons, in fact, give ALL churches all the free speech they want, but make them pay taxes. I don't see a problem.
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The Good news for 8 was in looking at the exit poll numbers - the No votes in the under 30 age group was overwhellming - but at 20% of the vote the impact was diminished. In time however, that demographic at least indicates to me that it's just a matter of time.
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What's nerf-herding?
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I'm pissed at my nephew! He opposed 8, but "never got around to" voting yesterday! :mad:
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Nobody's answering the phone at LAGLC, If I get through, and can find out where there are protests, I'll post that info here and on twitter.
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I'm reading Sarah Vowell's Assassination Vacation, the first half of which is about the assassination of Lincoln. She discusses the speech that Frederick Douglas gave at the dedication of the Freeman's Memorial in Lincoln Park. Here are some key exerpts: Quote:
It was as honest a speech as there ever was. Lincoln took a long path to his role as champion of the end of slavery. Much as Obama now stops well short of actually supporting full equal rights for gays, Lincoln stopped well short of supporting freedom for slaves. And his eventual change of heart was more convenience than principle. But: Quote:
Obama is no Lincoln, and he's surely not achieved, under any guise, the gains for gays that Lincoln achieved for the slaves. But reading this speech, knowing that a great man can truly hold questionable views, play both sides, use those he's purportedly helping merely to serve his own ends, and yet in the end make the right decision, gives me hope that one day, given the opportunity, Obama can do the same. |
We're a quick drive from the Mormon temple. You let us know when we should take our "angry lunch" hour and march with you.
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Obama mentioned gays in his acceptance speech. That made me extremely happy and proud that I voted for him.
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Oh, forgot, here's a link to the full text of Douglas's speech. It's a powerful read.
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Minor detail (and sorry for playing the devil's advocate here). Without looking into the specifics (and relying on my oft faulty memory), I believe that the churches skirted the issue by encouraging their MEMBERS to donate. Again, I am probably wrong somehow, just thinking out loud.
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I just got an email from Love Honor Cherish. They are conceding the passage of Prop 8.
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Yes, most news sites have given it the check mark.
I didn't have time to print my sign up this morning. And I'm not dumb enough to use a company printer for that. It'll have to go up tomorrow. |
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Young people do not automatically retain their optimism, peacefulness, love and good-heartedness. It evaporates in all too many people. If that weren't the sad truth, the 80's would have been utopia when all the wonderful youth of the 60's grew to be the core of society. It didn't happen that way then, and it won't now. |
I received an email from my former boss at GLAD (Gay & Lesbian Advocates & Defenders) in Boston. I'd like to share it with everyone because it's hopeful.
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Protest Rally Scheduled for Tonight
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If you hear of any in OC, let us know.
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I wrote this last night and posted it to No on 8's Facebook page this morning.
It's a call to action. It's something not everyone will agree with me on, but I put it out there for people to see. I think there is a lot of anger out there and I'd like to see that anger channeled into something productive and not destructive. Quote:
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PROTEST DEMONSTRATION AGAINST PROP 8 TONIGHT AT 7PM AT SAN VICENTE AND MELROSE
SPREAD THE WORD WIDELY OUR FIGHT FOR OUR EQUALITY, DIGNITY AND FULL CITIZENSHIP IS FAR FROM OVER LET THIS DEFEAT ENERGIZE US TO TAKE ACTION - REACH OUT - BUILD STRENGTH ACROSS COMMUNITIES WE CANNOT LAY DOWN IN DEFEAT - WE MUST STAND UP AND FIGHT San Vicente Blvd, between Santa Monica Blvd and Melrose Avenue will be closed tonight starting at 6 pm. San Vicente south-bound traffic will be directed to make left or right at Santa Monica Blvd. Signs have already been posted to help divert traffic. For more information about tonight's rally, please contact (323) 848-6460. |
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Have fun at your rally. If you get some sort of venting enjoyment out of it, that's fine. I will not be attending the futility.
Ya see, when somebody's imaginary friend tells them that fâggots aren't worth shït, there's really nothing intelligent, open-minded people can do (including protesting) to sway them. The only thing we can hope for is that these fücktards will eventually die off and people who can actually think will prevail. |
Indeed we can't necessarily change the minds of the bigoted. But we have to stay in action to remind the intelligent, open-minded people (and particularly the young ones who are coming into their own - I came from a homophobic family, myself, once upon a time) how important this issue is.
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I think I'll attend this one.
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I think I will be there. But where the heck do you park?
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It is not to change anyone's minds, but a way to process the crushing blow we have been dealt. I am having a very difficult time today comprehending how to deal with people, particularly Mormons and Christians. They are misguided bigots who are either too stupid to think for themselves or too chickensh!t to stand up to a church that they know is hurting people. I do know that any respect that I had for them -- they can find their own path to God as long as it doesn't hurt me -- is obviously over. I just can't tell who the good people are and the bad people are just from walking down the street, y'know? |
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Want directions? |
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Not all Christians. Certainly, many. But not all. Look at the faith-based groups on this huge list; even the Catholic Democrats of California are on our side.
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In any case, if I can get out of my previous obligation for this evening, I'd like to attend the rally to, yes, process some of my distressing feelings today. I'd certainly like to process them in a more healthy and releasing way than I have so far (which this morning involved a scalding hot shower of water and tears, and a razor blade when the soap was not enough to wash away the disgusting filth I felt.) Hmmm, maybe I need psychotherapy instead. :mad: And of course, I'm mindful of LPSE and Tom's story last night of meeting the day after their 2004 crushing election defeat and falling in love. Yes, hmmm, rally in WeHo. :D |
We will be at the rally tonight. Our marriage isn't truly valid until yours are.
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Every person attending the rally means one more number to add to the headline the next day. Every sign placed means that more people are forced to consider their positions again. Sitting back and accepting a fate of inequality will only result in more inequality. Fight, fight, fight, otherwise nothing ever changes. |
It disgusts me that people are that way and i am very saddened that people think that they can take away people's constiutional rights to marry who they want to. It's like to me what if someone's kid comes to them saying they are gay? then what? Or is that kid gonna be so homophobic that they stay in the closet affecting their health etc. Sad sad world that we live in. I just can't imagine taking away someone's right. It's discrimination of sorts in a way. Ok i could go on and on but i won't.
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Andrew sent me this a bit earlier. It may have come before LHC conceeded
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GC, check your PMs.
All others who are going, shall we have a meet plan or just rely on cell phones? |
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The good news is, you don't have to change the minds of those too entrenched to change. You need to change the minds of the small few who are simply misinformed, and the ones who just didn't understand the importance and didn't vote. Prop 8 did not win in a landslide. It barely snuck by. The louder those of us who know better are now, the more likely things will tilt the other way next time. |
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Mormon leaders urge respect for foes in gay-marriage debate.
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I feel like I've just been slapped in the face. |
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Obama got flack for this old quote, but it's a good message: "And I think one of the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that the civil rights movement became so court-focused, I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and organizing activities on the ground that are able to bring about the coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways we still suffer from that." And beyond all that, think back to being taught about the civil rights movement during your own formative years. What do you remember as having the biggest impression on you? The kind of impression that ensured that your generation was instilled with a sense of tolerance and equality for people no like yourself. Was it details of court rulings? Or was it images like these:   This isn't about this election. It isn't about the next election. It's not about 3 lawsuits, a pending court battle, or even a possible federal Supreme Court ruling. It's about letting everyone know that human beings deserve rights and being sure no one forgets it. It's about making sure future generations know that people are willing to fight for their right. I understand being too angry to want to face the insurmountable force of ignorance yourself. But there are people who are planning to stand in the streets and proclaim their support for you as a human being. I cheer them on, and wish I could be there myself. I hope you feel the same. |
Amendments cannot be struck from the Constitution, they must be repealed by a subsequent amendment. So I sincerely hope someone is starting the signature-gathering effort RIGHT NOW for that amendment.
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Pictures speak a thousand words, don't they? I was alive then. I remember it well, and all the Vietnam protests, too. I don't remember any of the court rulings. Yawn. That said, I'm confident this will be won in the Courts. And that's fine for California ... but does not help the rest of America in the way a voter affirmation of gay rights here would have. Bah. Sad cheese. :( |
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I'm not ignoring that, BTD, one can hope that it is prevented from being added to the Constitution at all.
But just as they did not wait for gay marriage to be legalized before starting their amendment activities, let's not wait for their amendment to be legitimized before starting our own efforts to repeal it. IF 8 stays, why waste even a moment that could be spent working to repeal it? |
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I was talking to my co-worker who voted yes, and I started crying and he felt properly bad for participating in this and encouraging his children to take part and he realized he is not promoting tolerance, but intolerance.
It took putting a face to the pain, to who was hurt by this (hurting because your friends were just denied something by the majority of the state) for him to realize he messed up. I hope others come around - not in the backhanded way from the article above, but really come around. |
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I'm now of the opinion that the LDS Church is a horrible institution, not from some kind of misguided anti-religious irrational hysteria, but by its actions in the past few weeks. They have gone far beyond redemption. |
TeeHee, just heard a cool story from a friend of mine. Her 17-year-old straight boy son was driving along, came upon a bunch of YesHead protesters and shouted out to them, "I Love Sucking Dick!!"
Hahahahahahah! :D |
Are we carrying signs tonight?
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I want to. But ... I don't know anyplace to stop and get posterboard between here and WeHo (though if I go straight from work - - no pun intended -- I'll get there too early).
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I wish I could be there to lend a hand with the protest. |
I will be there with you in spirit, my bretheren.
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To all my straight friends who voted no on H8:
Let me be absolutely clear, since this may have only been hinted at in my previous rants. I unequivocally love and thank you for supporting us same-sex-loving folks. You did not have to take a stand on this issue but you did. I know I speak for my G&L brothers & sisters when I tell you our appreciation knows no bounds. To all those who will be attending the anti-H8 rally this evening: More power to you! I'm glad you feel energized to get out and protest the passing of this ridiculous proposition. If you wish to march, yell, honk your horn, or any other non-violent form of protesting, you have my blessing. I have my own reasons for not attending, but you should absolutely do what you feel you need to do. |
There's a Kinkos by me. I'm sure they have posterboard for signs and poster rolls for "sticks". I'm trying to think what to say on it. Perhaps "I am not a second-class citizen" or "Shame on the Mormon Church" or "Jesus says MIND YOUR OWN FVCKING BUSINESS" or "We will overcome your hate" or...
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Isaac, I forwarded you the PM I sent to Gemini Cricket.
I have no idea what to put on a sign that would not be unduly offensive. I want some positive slogan, but I'm not coming up with anything so far ... so if there are any suggestions, they are welcome (notwithstanding those suggested by Chernabog above) ;) |
How about "I didn't realize that Jesus was down with discrimination"
Or "I thought Jesus said don't judge?" |
"What does my marriage have to do with yours?"
"Stop 8igotry" "Equality is for Everyone, Whether you Like it or Not" |
If anybody knows of any protests/rallies up here in the Bay Area, could you point them out. I'm not sure where exactly to look for them.
Going into the city on a weeknight isn't the easiest thing, but if I can I will. |
Prop 8 = Fear
Fear = Hate |
Facebook has a 1,000,000 strong to challenge Prop 8 group. I can't join from my phone, but if someone can I think they are talking about rallies in OC. If someone could check that'd be awesome.
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On that Facebook group I just mentioned there is a wall post that says "San Francisco Rally 6:30PM City Hall 1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Place." I hope that makes sense to you. |
Nov 05, 2008
Community Gatherings Across the state this evening, people who support equality for all and oppose Prop 8 gather together. With an estimated 3 to 4 million votes remaining to be counted, the race is still too close to call. Event listing updated regularly Los Angeles 7:00 p.m. | West Hollywood Corner of Santa Monica Blvd and San Vicente Blvd Modesto 7:00 p.m.| Stanislaus Pride Center Silent walk to Graceada Park Oceanside 5:30 p.m. | Civic Center Library Community Rooms 330 N. Coast Highway Food will be served, but feel free to bring something to share. Sacramento 5 p.m. | Capitol Steps San Diego 6:30 | The Center 3909 Centre Street Co-sponsored by the Center, EQCA and HRC San Luis Obispo 5:30 p.m. | Mission Plaza Amphitheater San Francisco 6:30 | City Hall 1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Place |
Shocking: nothing in Orange County :rolleyes:
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