RIP in 2009
 

It seems to early to start this kind of thread, but since I'm on someone's list, I seem to have my fingers on the pulse of who bites the dust.

Attachment 927

Oh. So this is for people that have already died rather than a wish list for the coming year?

Also already gone this year (from TV and screen):

Edmund Purdom - MGM epics back in the '50s, replaced Marlon Brando in The Egyptian.

Pat Hingle - Character actor, played Commissioner Gordon in the Keaton/ Kilmer Batman movies. Also, back in the '60s he survived a 50+ foot fall down an elevator shaft.

Don Galloway - Sergeant Brown on Ironside.

Steven Gilborn - TV character actor, Ellen Generes's dad on her sitcom.

Alex is correct (as usual)

Attachment 929

Attachment 930

Attachment 931

Attachment 932

I'll continue to post them as they arrive.

Centennials for 2009:
Attachment 928

Don Galloway, I remember him! Now I can put a name to the face. He was very handsome. (I love the scruffy look he has in that picture with James Farentino!)

Don Callender, founder of Marie Callender's.

Hope he gave his mom a cut.

Pat Hingle! I never knew his name. I know that face.

Damn good pies!

R.I.P. Bob Wilkins
 

April 11, 1932 - Jan 7, 2009

Ned Tanen - Head of motion pictures at Universal and Paramount in the '70s and '80s.

Ray Dennis Steckler (aka Cash Flagg) - Director of low budget cult horror movies in the '60s and eventually moved on to low budget porn.

Harry Endo - Che Fong on Hawaii 5-0

Claude Berri - French director and screenwriter; won a Best Live Action Short Academy Award in 1966 for The Chicken.

Tom O'Horgan - Theater director including Hair, Jesus Christ Superstar, and Lenny.

I'm really sad about Bob Wilkins, boy there is a part of my childhood.

Attachment 935

Attachment 936

Attachment 937

Jean de Florette... I need to watch that again.

Farewell Number 6
 

Originally posted by Mousepod, here's a pic link.

Attachment 938

Gosh, the way things are going, you'd think I obessed over dead celebrities....;) and Alex beat me to it, of course.

HARRY ENDO Died Jan. 9, 2009

Actor Henry Endo died of a stroke at age 87. Mr. Endo was best known
for his role as Che Fong on the hit TV series "Hawaii 5-0." He was an
original cast member and worked on the series for its entire run from
1968 through 1980. Mr. Endo also worked on the TV shows "Jake and the
Fatman," "Magnum, P.I.," "Murder, She Wrote" and "Code Name: Diamond
Head." Mr. Endo served his country in the US Army during WWII.

It is being reported that Ricardo Montalban has died.

Khan!

Holy Moly! What the heck is going on? :eek:

Bob Thomas is reporting here

If it were Shatner, Euro, it would be:

"KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN"

My first thought was the sound of his voice enunciating "Reeech Corinthian Leather"

I actually have a Ricardo Montalban story. Twenty years ago, one of my last pre-law school jobs was working as a waiter at Hamburger Hamlet in Beverly Hills. The wait staff was a mix of "kids" like me and older ladies who had been there twenty years. We'd get the occasional celebrity, and some turned heads more than others. One day, Ricardo Montalban came in and sat at the counter. The older ladies kind of went nuts, and he was, like all good celebrities, very gracious. Biggest reaction I saw that year.

And if you're keeping score, Ken Wahl was a distant second.

I don't think that restaurant's there any more.

Sadly, no: it is gone. There are still locations in Pasadena, Sherman Oaks, and West Hollywood.

And the East Coast!

I remember the same from the one time I met him.

Yup. We got them out here. 2nd Best Lobster Bisque in the country.

He ain't dead yet, but Steve Jobs ain't looking too good right now.

Steve Jobs takes leave of absence from Apple

Ah, the bisque, the bisque. The m*f*cking bisque.

When I worked there, there were some things that were free for us, some that were half price and some we had to pay full price for.

And then there was the bisque. The bisque, the bisque. The m*f*cking bisque.

Which we were not allowed to have during our breaktime meals. Now management could have lied and said, "Well, it costs a lot to make, we only make so much, and we don't want to run out." Instead, they said, "If the guests see the employees eating the bisque, it will make it seem less special."

Well in their defense, It is one hell of a bisque.

But was it special?

John Mortimor - Creator of Horace Rumpole (which must have been on PBS a lot in the '80s since I know who that is). Also, defended The Sex Pistols on indecency charges after they said "bullocks" in an album title.

And in one of those oddities, yesterday a man by the name of Leonard Andrews died. He was famous in art circles for having bought the entirety of Andrew Wyeth's Helga paintings.

Then today Andrew Wyeth died.

Bullocks was a department store, right? Wasn't the album cover bollocks? Or am I mis remembering?

Yup, my parents watched Rumpole of the Bailey.

Yes, a typo. Bollocks was the indecency.

Not a celeb, but I think he was "KOH" or King of Hearts on the Fab Board and on MC. He passed away. I remember him being a bit of a troll but seems to had found a place at MC.

RIP.http://micechat.com/forums/micechat-...ng-hearts.html

RIP

Kathleen Byron - British actress, most notably probably being Black Narcissus.

Bob May - He was the guy inside the robot suit in Lost in Space (but was not the voice).

Susanna Foster - Paramount actress in the early '40s, flared bright but faded quickly. Most notably in the Claude Rains version of Phantom of the Opera.

OMG! I didn't hear about Susanna Foster. Lovely girl back then.

As NA mentioned in another thread:

John Updike - Novelist, not too much exposure on film but wrote the novel of the same name that resulted in The Witches of Eastwick.

Kim Manners - TV director and producer. Most prominently involved in The X-Files.

Charles H. Schneer - Producer, worked frequently with Ray Harryhausen on many of his classics (for example: Jason and the Argonauts, It Came from Beneath the Sea, Clash of the Titans).

It loks like Billy Powell of Lynyrd Skynyrd has pased away. My brother was a big fan of them back in the day.

Here's a link to where I found it:http://music.msn.com/music/article.a...9800&GT1=28102

Hopefully now Gary Rossington will stop touring as Lynyrd Skyryd (he is the only surviving original member).

Lux Interior of the Cramps

I used to see them from time to time, when Lux and Poison Ivy lived in Glendale.

:(

Lux? Stop it! :(

Last time I saw The Cramps was almost 20 years ago - but I'm still so bummed out about this... I guess we can hope for a zombie Lux.

Same, same, and hey! Zombie Lux would be cool.

Zombie Lux would be a great name for a band!

I was poking around on Wiki and found out that Cramps guitarist Brian Gregory died quite a while ago.

James Whitmore - Character actor, nominated for Best Supporting Actor Oscar in his first significant role back in 1949. Most familiar to me as Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption.

I loved him in "Them!"

There's probably a "Miracle Gro" joke here somewhere.

Haven't been keeping up but Ron Silver kicked it today.

Removed because the ultimate source of what I was reading may have been premature.

You're such a tease, Alex.

It was about Natasha Richardson, but I'm seeing different information on different sites.

It looks like it's not going to be good news, whatever happens. I really like Natasha- she seems like a very down to earth and gracious person. Too sad.

I knew she is Vanessa Redgrave's daughter but I wasn't aware she is married to Liam Neeson.

I saw an updated report that made it seem like it may not be as serious as first reported. The later report said she fell, was alert and responsive, then later started complaining only later that she wasn't feeling well and was conscious when 911 was called and she was taken to the hospital. That version sounds like minor concussion, not "traumatic head injury" as first reported.

Fox is now reporting that she's on life support, and is being flown back to NY before being taken off the machines. Her family has announced that they will release a statement tomorrow. That doesn't bode well, imo.

Edited to add: Huffington Post update

Yeah, that is why I redacted. I can't tell if the various "she's brain dead" stories are all originally sourced or just echoing Fox/NY Post's first story.

When TMZ and NY Post are in disagreement I admit to uncertainty how to proceed.

Well, I will hope for the best. Poor Liam Neeson and family, if true. :(

Good lord, she was on the bunny slope for God's sake.

Tragic.

I wondered about this, seems rather incongruous. But, who the heck knows. Sad. :(

It was about Mark Twain

I'm not liking the updates I'm hearing about her condition. It is still unconfirmed by the family, but it seems her head injury caused internal bleeding and she had "talk and die syndrome".
If she is, in fact, brain dead it seems they are bringing her back to NY so family can gather and say their goodbyes before she is taken off of life support.

It's very tragic and scary.

Originally posted by Stan4dSteph on Twitter:

Angel star Andy Hallett (Lorne) dies aged 33
Story

He was my favorite character on Angel.

Mark "The Bird" Fidrych

I remember his amazing rookie year. At the time I thought he was a bit of a hippie, but in retrospect, I'd take a dozen Fidryches of 1976 happily talking to the baseball over all the belligerent, scary-facial-haired setup men that pollute the game today.

Marilyn Chambers died today too. But I'm sure nobody here would know who she is.

I know.
Whodathunk I'd know?
:D

It's always sad when a woman I've seen naked and in person (at the same time even) dies. They She will be missed

Dude, I didn't even have to look Behind the Green Door to know who Marilyn Chambers is/was.

Why do the 'mos know this information...?

Oh, we know. We're just reluctant to admit it.

Why wouldn't we know the Ivory Soap girl?

J.G. Ballard died yesterday. It wasn't unexpected, but still sad.

The world is a little less colorful today
 

Jack Cardiff, awesome cinematographer of Black Narcissus, The Red Shoes and many other classic and great films.

94, a good long time to be around. RIP Jack, I loved your work.

With the passing of Bea Arthur, the Golden Girls are now tied with the Beatles for number of living members.

The cute one and the silly one in both cases.

Was Bea John or George?

Nooooo! I can't believe Bea Arthur is gone. I loved her, and then I loved the postmodern ironic appreciation of her. (No one else looks as good naked in a velvet painting.)

Oh, Bea. "We'll... always be bosom buddies... friends, sisters and pals..."

RIP Bea
:(:( :( <----- Very Sad Cheese from this Golden Girls fan.

Frankie Manning passed away on Monday. I posted this thread about him last year. I knew he was in the hospital with pneumonia which is not a good thing when you're 94 years old. Now the big celebration in New York at the end of May will be a memorial instead of the planned 95th birthday party.

Frankie influenced dancers all over the world. There was a big write-up in the LA Times on Tuesday. I didn't realize he was the first dancer to do an "air step" or aerial. I feel privileged that I got to take his classes at several dance camps and dance the Shim Sham with him leading hundreds of us from the stage. Despite his injury last year he stayed as active as he could and shared his stories until the end.

RIP Dom DeLuise :(

:-(

Addio, Dom you made me laugh.

:( So sad. Goodbye Dom.

Are you the bringer of death today, CM?

I feel like death today.

I loved Dom. He is one of my treasured memories of childhood. I hope he's knocking 'em dead up there somewhere. He was a very warm and funny man.

My cheese is very sad :(

Oh, I used to buy a pickle.
It only used to cost a nickel.
And a busride only used to cost a diiiime.
Those days can be forgotten.
The world has gotten rotten.
Lotsa luck.

Lotsa luck, Dom.

Since pretty much any live action movie he was in was horrible (not because of him necessarily) my fond memories of him are kind of odd. There is (or was, I haven't listened since about 2002) a syndicated home improvement radio call-in show (I forget the name) that Lani and I would frequently end up listening when we were on an early morning Saturday road trip.

For some reason completely unclear to me, they had Dom DeLuise on every week to do a 15 minute COOKING segment. He was very fun to listen to and it helped cleanse the odor of Cannonball Run II.

Dom always did cooking bits on talk shows and such. That's what I knew him as for much as my childhood, the funny fat guy who did cooking bits.

Aw! I loved Dom! :(

Forgot to post a few days ago, but for fans of Vegas acts, Danny Gans suddenly passed away too - far too young.

Yeah (I got that impression though I'd never seen them), I just found it odd that he was doing it on a show about how to clean driveways or build a back deck.

My Dom story:

I was an extra in a brilliant film called "Baby Geniuses" and I was walking to the set when I hear a commotion behind me. Dom was rushing by with several paper grocery bags filled with food and a big log of bread sticking out. He was with someone laughing and being everything you'd expect. I held the door for them as they rushed by, apparently off to cook for the cast and he wasn't even in the scenes shot.

From Blazing Saddles (1974)
Buddy Bizarre: [yells into the ear of an actor] WRONG!
[hits the actor in the head]
Buddy Bizarre: Watch me! It's so simple! Give me the playback! Watch me, faggots!

History of the World part 1
Emperor Nero: Here, wash this!

Haunted Honeymoon:
Aunt Kate: Where's Francis Jr.?
Francis Abbot Sr.: I don't know, Kate. He told me he was coming up this afternoon. I thought sure he'd be here in time for dinner.
Aunt Kate: One of my dresses is missing. Has he been at it again?
Francis Abbot Sr.: No!
[stammering]
Francis Abbot Sr.: Uh, n-n-no no I.
Francis Abbot Sr.: [explaining to Vickie] My son does this wonderful impression of Aunt Kate. He's got her voice down to a tee. And well, sometimes he likes to, uh, put on one of Aunt Kate's dresses to entertain at family gatherings.
Vickie Pearle: I see.
Francis Abbot Sr.: [upbeat] Oh, you should have seen him last Christmas. Such fun.
Aunt Kate: [sarcastic] Yes. And when the police dragged him out of the ladies room at Sach's Fifth Avenue, *that* was fun.

Robin Hood: Men in Tights
Sheriff of Rottingham: Don Giovanni, if I may say so, your lizard looks limp.
Don Giovanni: [holding lizard] Yeah, well, when you get to be my age... Oh! My lizard! Oh yeah!
He's dead.

And, of course, somewhere, he and Nipsey Russell are cutting Dean Martin's hair and talking bawdy.

Wayne Allwine, the voice of Mickey Mouse. My cheese is so very sad.

David Carradine - 73, died while filming a movie in Bangkok, reportedly of natural causes.

Dang.

RIP, Grasshopper.

Of course what passes for "natural causes" in Bangkok is a fairly wide gambit.

Thee are rumors that it might be suicide.

There are apparently conflicting reports on whether the death was suicide or not.

Edited: Damn it - beaten to the punch. I'm seeing lots of suicide reports, though. LA Times, Kevy's link, even GD's link now says suicide. CNN is not yet saying.

GD's link now says apparent suicide as well.

ETA: Why bother reading all the posts first? Why not just look silly saying what's already been said.

You know, I wonder if anyone's considered the possibility that it was suicide.




Hey, did y'all know that David Carradine died?!

RIP Koko Taylor
 

Queen of the Blues, RIP

I heard he was beheaded.

(Okay, bad taste.)

Hey, I started typing before Kevy posted and can't very well unpost. I'm so sorry I violated the sacred "never repeat anything" law that is strictly observed here on LoT.

On the bright side, I learned a brand new word today: Erotic asphyxiation

Well, if so that is two semi-major celebrities who've accidentally offed themselves thusly. It's a once-a-decade epidemic!

Where he be headed to?

You should have learnt that with Michael Hutchence (the reference that Alex was making).

I'm trying to decide if accidentally killing yourself in a masturbation accident is a kind of sad or glorious way to go when you're 72.

Depends on the finish I suppose.

Wouldn't that be death?

In what he was (allegedly) doing, one hopes to stop just short of death.

You're supposed to stop at "the little death."

E~
This is so bad, but that made me laugh.
I apologize.
:D

Posted on www.newsfromme.com

RIP.

RIP Ed McMahon :(

Wow. Breaking news, and very sad. If there is a next life, Johnny's got good backup now.

I guess this means Ed isn't showing up at my door with a giant check. :(

Re: Dave Simons

Looking at the list of comics he worked on - Tomb of Dracula, Conan, Howard the Duck - I've got LOTS of his work in the terrific black and white reprint anthologies that are now so easily available. (Tomb of Drac is my fave - I've got all four volumes!)

So long, Ed. I'll raise a glass of Alpo in your honor.

RIP Ed

What are we going to say when Rip Taylor dies?

RIP Rip

sounds like a frog.

Silly rabbit. Posts don't make sounds.
:D

He's still alive?!

Yep

So is Rip Torn

Maybe if they both kick it on the same day we can say RIP Rip n Rip

I've got a baggie of Rip Taylor confetti- he was one of the funniest, nicest guests I've ever had to help at work.

Or, I thought he died years ago!

Farrah Fawcett.

A guy we went to high school with does his web site.

Yep.

She was the it girl to me as a kid. Saturn 3 wasn't a bad movie, but I probably wouldn't have seen it but for the promise of her bare breast.
(Well, there was Kirk Douglas's butt.)

Today I think I'll let Noxema cream my face with its great balls of comfort.

It bizzare and sad because she was really the first pin-up girl of our generation. RIP

Michael Jackson.

Michael Jackson has reportedly died of a heart attack. (eta: beaten by mere seconds by mousepod)

:eek: :eek: :eek:

How about some links other than TMZ? Everything else still says rushed to the hospital.

Totally inapropriate question - how did they pinch his nose shut to do cpr?

CNN is reporting that he suffered cardiac arrest.

:eek:

Holy Sh!t!

My childhood just flashed before my eyes.

People says the Fire Captain confirms that the paramedics found Jackson not beathing and performed CPR.

A 2nd source other than TMZ (X17online, never heard of them, but there ya' go) is reporting that he's died.

Well, it's certainly not official as of this post. Reputable news organizations are still refusing to say.

There was a bit of a delay confirming Kennedy was dead, so he could indeed be dead.


Or, ya know, not.

LA Times:

Oh, man. A tragic life, a lot of darkness - but I won't ever forget wearing a single glove and a Michael Jackson pin at the age of five. Dancing to his music - and don't kid yourself, it was ****ING GREAT music - in my basement. I'm genuinely sad.

LA Times:

I wouldn't be surprised, but I want something besides TMZ or outlets parroting the TMZ story.

Thanks Tom!

The little boy in me cannot mourn all that much for his demise, if it's true.


Neverland man ... meet the real Neverland.


I'm not celebrating or anything, but while a great musical talent ... this guy is not, imo, deserving of all the love. He did some horrible stuff.



Half of it to his own face.

No kidding LSPE. While I neither had a basement nor a white glove, Jackson 5and Michael Jackson was a big part of my musical life growing up. He had some serious talent, incredible talent.

I still have Thriller and Off the Wall, great albums. :(

:(

I saw this too-very sad. Sad for the loss of who he was, who he could have been- and for his children.

A bit morbid, but...

If he is dead, then we can go back to enjoying his early music without remorse.

If an LA Times blog post can be considered official, it seems to be official.

Times is now pulling that story. Friend of a friendofa says he's in a coma.

We have the TV on here at the office and NBC News just confirmed as well.

This is now the big news here in the office. Everyone is talking about it. Poor Farrah - bounced off the front page.

Which, based on her reaction to the press she got while ill, is probably exactly what she would have wanted.

Just like Natasha Richardson-brain dead, coma- release news they are dead later.

:(

I still love the Thriller dance. I have no idea why. Just do.

I'm going to be sick.

Don't care if I'm laughed at, but I'm really really upset over this. He's one of my three childhood idols, and I've always had a dream of meeting him and/or seeing him in concert. I've always loved his music, and he was even one of the inspirations for me to dance.

I just can't wrap my brain around it right now. :(

DP- me too. Shed tears over this and I don't care if anyone laughs at me too. I grew up admiring him- loving his music and his dancing. I grieved over the choices he made sometimes and the way people took advantage of him.

So I'm right there with you-

Okay, time to roll out the Michael Jackson in person story. I was at the Classical Annex Tower on Sunset shopping, latish at night. In walks the man himself who calmy walks about flipping through the bins and picking a few CDs. I was shocked, said nothing and all I can remember is he had the most beautiful purple eyeshadow on over those dark eyes.

MJ is dead. Gone. Blown away.

MSNBC has him dead now as well.

I guess life wasn't worth living without Farrah Fawcett.

Bea Arthur, David Carradine, Farah Fawcett, Ed McMahon, Michael Jackson. It is '70s and '80s nostalgia week (using an expanded definition of "week") at the mortuary apparently.

ETA: CNN just changed from coma to dead too.

No, you're not alone. I actually teared up when telling coworkers about dancing to his music as a child.

I met him. His sister Rebe was a member of the JW congragation. He came one day and greeted us all. It was just before Thriller hit.

He was big - did alot of good for alot of people - he made people happy - he made some bad choices. Sad to see him go but in a way it's kinda poetic. He's never gonna be "old" and he'll be remembered as he was.

I've got very mixed feelings about Jackson. One the one hand, he was a genius who's music crossed all boundaries. Regardless of what a person's particular interest is, everyone has at least one favorite Michael song. However, he was a twisted kid raper. How can I ignore that? My Grandma Ellie was a juror during his trial and shared with us the sick sh!t that he did, and I have a hard time ignoring all that. But still, the musician in me is mourning, regardless. Difficult dichotomy...

I'm going to fall back on mom's advice, If you don't have anything nice to say....


However my heart does go out to his kids and family.

Like everyone else, I'm completely shocked. I heard the news getting a cup of coffee a little while ago at Peets while waiting for Matthew. Everyone in the store was talking about it and I assumed they must be mistaken. We rushed home and were further confused when CNN refused to confirm it. Last I saw, they were still saying that "the LA Times reports..." but hadn't confirmed. It seems the rest of the civilized world is confirming it though.

For me, his personal life has never held any remote interest to me. I'm not convinced that he molested anyone, although he certainly could have. But I'm a musician, and to deny his enormous talent would be ludicrous. My affection for his music spans much farther back than Thriller. I remember watching him as a little kid when I was extremely young and, even then, thinking "wow." I never stopped thinking that. He was simply amazing. And I can't help but feel very sad right now.

I'm sorry- please cite his conviction. Date and sentence served please?

I intend no disrespect for your family member- but there was no conviction. If he was, as you say, a "twisted kid raper" and such sick things were shared in court- then why would he walk out a free man?

My kid just told me about MJ, of course I had to jump on to see if it was true. I am shocked. He wasn't that old but seemed to have health problems but still!

Holy sh*t.

I can't... honestly can't... believe what I'm reading.

I'm with you guys when you talk about how much his music impacted our lives. I remember being 5, like LSPE, wearing one glove and having the pins. I remember having the pre-Thriller Michael Jackson record player with microphone, so I could sing along, a la karaoke.

What a tragic life, and to paraphrase what's already been said - what was and what could have been. I was always so crushed to think that my idol had been anything less than perfect, but never really stopped adoring the talent and genius behind the man.

May he finally have the peace he didn't have in life.

He had just passed a physical in prep for the comeback tour in London-

I'm playing his music right now. Set up a new playlist on my iPod for my favorite stuff by him.

The freaky part - put that playlist on shuffle, and the first song to play was "Gone Too Soon". :eek:

I am really in shock. I'm gonna be having a few drinks tonight and playing his music. So much for getting work done. I just... can't. In a way, I just want to dance. :(

:(

We all know he was acquitted. According to my grandmother, after the jury was told to dismiss certain testimony and ignore certain evidence, there was nothing left to convict him on. But, she has always been adamant that he obviously did it, whether the legal system deemed it so or not. I can't ignore that.


Still, he was a brilliant entertainer and his contributions to music are so monumental that he changed the face of the artform and there will never again be anyone like him. His genius will be missed, whether his other actions are or not.

CNN just reported the official coroner release that he's dead.

Oh sh!t. The jokes are already coming out on Twitter/FB... Sheesh!

I know. :mad:

Even in death, people will not just leave him alone.

So, I wonder who everyone is going to pick on now? MJ's only left so much material for "comedians", and it'll run dry very quickly.

I've seen a few that are so funny that I feel bad for laughing at them. Won't post them yet...

Let me know first, so I can make sure to post a few about some of the great late jazz legends at the same time.

I'm really sad. I got to see him in concert (sneaked in, actually: we paups were all sitting outside the stadium in Parramatta listening to the concert when security flung open a gate near the front of the stage (to let people out, we assume) but it was only the 4th to last song of the concert - we all crushed in, and got to stand at the front of the stage for the last 3 songs !! ) and I love his music.

If I hear a recording of "Ben" anytime soon, I'm gonna cry for sure.

Blech... Al Sharpton is on TV right now using Jackson's death as a soapbox to bitch about race. What a tool.

Always loved his music. Could never quite reconcile the affable looking teen from the old days with the train wreck that followed.

I can't say I'm shocked. On the one hand, it was easy to picture him going out like Liz Taylor, only capturing the public eye with each new hospitalization. On the other, it was hard to imagine him playing this part into his dotage. It will be interesting to see if this was truly natural causes.

Love to hear 'em. Probably pretty funny, especially if they're about Bird or Miles. But everyone's mourning Michael, yourself included, so I'm not going to be doing so any time soon.

Well, when he was overseas there were many reports of illness and I know when he was in Vegas he was having health issues. No he didn't have cancer like Fawcett did but he had been ill quite a bit in the last few years.

I have seen no reports that he just passed a physical, considering most of his shows were postponed until 2010.

Jeff Goldblum. Or so it is currently reported, without much detail or corroboration.

!!!!!!!! OMG, what a tragic day! (though none of those 3 links re:Goldblum are working for me right now, so I'm hoping that's a sign of falsehood)

I had to look it up. Pass the kleenex.

Damnit! Here's a link that loads re: Goldblum. Still unconfirmed, but it's being reported by New Zealand state police. :( :( :(

I may need to watch Life Aquatic tonight.

From what I've been seeing, the Goldblum news is a hoax capitalizing on Fawcett and Jackson. Very lame if true.

Yeah, the Goldblum think is looking rumorier and rumorier by the second...especially now that I see Harrison Ford's name being kicked around also.

Let's see who else falsely dies before the dust settles.

He's filming in NYC.

Well, the New Zealand Herald isn't reporting anything about Goldblum. It seems like if anyone had the story, it would be them.

Regarding Jackson.....I have never been one to grave dance. I never really enjoyed his music, and it seemed to me for whatever reason he was a very disturbed individual. I can't say if he ever molested a kid, but he sure paid out a lot of money to at least one family to keep them quiet, and also had interviews where he talked about having cookies and milk in bed with young boys. While not convicted of anything, I find that at least creepy and inappropriate.

That being said, even in the passing of my own mom I found jokes nothing to be offended about and even made them myself. Some found/find that to be morbid, but people are different. If you don't like the jokes, avoid them.

Really, at this rate, it will be rumoured that everyone on Alex's 70's/80's list will be dead by nightfall.


I must have missed the Michael Jackson boat. I'm a lot older than most on this board, so I remember him very fondly as the breakout star of the Jackson Five.

But like so many glam artists of the 80's, he just wasn't my cup of tea. Though I did like a few of his songs, his music was never OMG. And his obvious notoriety as a hugely successful artist was eclipsed by his notorieties in many other, less flattering areas.

I came to appreciate his music very much after the fact. But really, the only music I have of his anywhere in the house is Captain EO. As much more of a Disney freak than I ever was an MJ fan, that's how I know him best.


I'm sad mostly because so many people are saddened. I can't help but sympathize with that, and be affected by the overwhelming vibe of disbelief and sadness that seems to have struck the world.

But we all gotta go sometime. It's tragic he was so young ... but perhaps for someone so obsessed with youth - his own and that of others - never growing old was only fitting.

Jeff Goldblum alive -- stuff.co.nz

I would hate to have someone spreading rumors about me dying just because other famous people had also died. Lame.

I don't know, if I was Jeff Goldblum, I might be honored to be thought of. After all, they could have started that rumor about a bigger star.

Where do people even come up with crap like that? And what are the criteria? "Hey, Michael Jackson just died. Let's pick someone off the B-List and tell people he died too! Quick, put in Scene-It and see who comes up first!"

Only a rumor, but I heard that the Michael Jackson cardiac arrest was from a self-administered sleeping pill overdose...

Well, mousepod's in the music biz ... so i believe his rumor.


Omg, they should shut the internet down for 24 hours. Where's Iran when you need her?

Hopefully not, but if this is a semi-suicide then it'll cement his legacy in the pantheon of tragic Hollywood deaths, a la Marilyn, Dean, and Ledger. He's even more immortal now, if that's possible.

A little research says that the pill story is most probably a fake.

ok, my computer at home is working again ... and i think i wish it wasn't. If ever there was a night to have no internet, this is shaping up to be it.


Think I'll log off for a few hours and let the rumor mill build to a furor.

link

Sky Saxon is dead. What a weird day.

link to claim he had injected Demerol just before the heart attack

Autopsy will show much-time will tell.

I hope, truly hope, it was not suicide.

I hope not, too. But I'd have to say it would almost be stranger if Jackson's death wasn't a weirdness.

This is somewhat joking so I'm going to spoiler it. If you're sensitive to this issue, please pass this by.

Today just sucks

And, it continues... now the media is "following the path of his body to see where it's taken". Good grief!

Possible choices for the faithful include Graceland or a waiting spaceship, but I suspect it will be somewhere far more mundane.

Count me among the MJ fans, feeling sad and reminiscent today.

At my summer camp we were allowed to pick our troop name to match a theme. One year the theme was music, and I was proud to be in the "Michael Jackson troop". We only won after a raffle, since everyone wanted that to be their name.

I'm not sure which year, but at that same camp we each got a white glove to glue sequins to for a craft project. I remember feeling let down when mine didn't look anything like Michael's.

One time a talented fan of my father's auto repairs drew him a charcoal sketch of MJ in his "Sgt. Pepper" jacket as a thank you. My dad gave it to me, and I dutifully colored it in with crayons and posted it above my bed until it was brown and crispy with age.

My brother and I would regularly play the song "Beat it" and renact the fight using a dishtowel to tie our hands together. Thriller and Bad had regular rotation. I even loved Dangerous, one of the last albums I bought on cassette.

I credit MJ's music with my love of dance music in general. Some of you know how much I love to dance!

There's so much more to say, but perhaps I should stop there.

Any bets on how much the ambulance he was taken to the hospital in will be sold for? And to whom?

I'm glad Goldblum isn't dead. He flirted with me at an Oscar party and it's my one grand Hollywood story.

Fawcett was expected and I'm glad she's no longer suffering.

Jackson is a shock but not necessarily a surprise. There's only so much abuse a body can take. Still, he was an immense talent.

Never a big fan of MJ's music, but the Coachella before last, Dimitri from Paris played a set that included ABC from the Jackson 5 - Lisa and I danced like crazy good fun. Couldn't help but think of the single I once had cut from the back of a cereal box.

As for Farah - ah well, to quote someone else today, "they should send her nipples to the Smithsonian" - damn they made that poster - and a mere 19 years ago, that Playboy spread she did at age 50 - Nipples like Dotts candies - it was reliving the adolescent sex goddess dream.

I feel my 70's childhood died today.

Ah, all the girls at my Junior High who tried to wear Farrah-dos.

I had the poster for a while, and I sure loved it, but perhaps its ubiquity meant I took it down sooner than others. Anyway, it's one of those images so prevalent, I don't even need to look at it to see it. It's etched fine on some part of my grey matter, and god bless Farrah for it.

I remember admiring her work in The Burning Bed, and I hear she is good in The Apostle, which I still haven't seen.

As for Jacko, well, I met him and he was nice. (I've told the tale elsewhere, and it's late.) Culturally, he signified the 80s at least as much as Farrah stood for the 70s. (I never had a poster of him, though.) I remember when Thriller premiered on MTV - it was a party with friends, complete with popcorn, Coke and, if I recall right, Tangy Taffy. Musically, I was into hipper stuff, but I admired the slickness, energy and broad appeal of what Michael was doing. Later on, I was often sad about the apparent self-loathing, the unfortunate cosmetic decisions, and of course, the alleged pedo-crimes. It's impossible not to have mixed feelings.

This week has been full of reunions with friends from 20 years ago, and news of icons dying. At this moment, I want to stop revisiting the past and keep my gaze forward. I've done a lot of melancholy misting up the last seven days, but with plenty of joyous laughs and smiles as well. I'm f**king exhausted!

Mixed feelings aside-I am adding all my MJ to my iPod- bought a couple I did not have- and watched Captain Eo on Youtube. I also dug out my stuffed butterfly fluffball critter from the movie-

Yeah-

Ya know, I love the hypocrisy of people who think MJ is ****ed up, especially on the plastic surgery front.

How is bleaching skin and modifying one's nose beyond recognition any worse than piercing and/or tattooing multiple body parts, or other forms of body "modification"? Yet, that seems more "acceptable".

I find MJ's plastic surgery less disturbing than people with multiple piercings or massive "plugs" on their various parts. I think we should all start calling those people ****ed up freaks. Besides, that amount of "modification" is only a symptom of deep emotional and mental problems, right? :rolleyes:

I reflected on the sad news to-day and realised I have quite a few nice memories of listening to his music with friends. And it seems these memories go back as early as my memory will allow. I have always been aware of MJ and I have always been a fan. God bless Michael Jackson!

Well, just to play devil's advocate, most people I know who adorn or modify their bodies with tattoos and/or piercings tend to have explanations for their choices, whether it be for beauty, trying to fit into a cultural norm, or rebelling against a norm. I don't remember Michael Jackson ever really addressing any of his skin bleaching or facial modification as a choice, but rather that he was reacting to some mysterious ailment. Apples and oranges.

Fine with me. I think the standard issue human body is a rather beautiful thing, and I find everything you mention, MJ included, sad and disturbing.

Not even 12 hours later, and I'm sick of Michael Jackson's death. The news is like "he'll be remembered forever as a chart-topping entertainer!" Ummm more like as a freak pedophile, but I digress...

I mean, I liked Thriller as much as the next kid back in the 80s, but it didn't last past that Black or White video.

Well, then you lasted nine years and that ain't bad.

I don't think anyone can deny that he had mental problems, or at least, an inability to cope.

Just handling regular fame is pretty damn hard. When the fame starts and you're still a child, it messes you up pretty good, as is evidenced in dozens of other tragic examples. When the fame starts in childhood AND flares up again when you're an adult, and oh yeah, you become the most famous person on the planet for a few years, not to mention the eternal cash flow and inability to walk around like a human being anymore, the damage is beyond all reckoning, IMHO.

No one could handle all that well, and anyone with even a mild issue would go batsh1t crazy.

I admit it, for these last 15 years or so, I would wince at the sound of his name and turn away from any news about him. He had become something so monstrous, who even wanted to think about it? I'm not even referring to the alleged molestation (which I still believe isn't true) but his sham of a marriage. Ugh, did you even see that music video he made with her? It was beyond repulsive how they attempted to pretend affection for each other. I was so bitterly disappointed. Nothing was the same after that.

It became impossible for me to acknowledge that this person was the same man. I feel as though I've already mourned his passing...as if these last 15 years or more were part of a horrible deadly diagnosis, eating away at his skin and his mind for so long...and that he really left us way back when.

Good way of putting it.

I preferred his early music anyway, so I mostly ignored him these last few years. But that was partly from the icky feeling I'd get when I enjoyed his music, remembering all that he'd become (and for the record, I do believe he touched some boys). Now I can go back to enjoying the music on its own merits, without the accompanying icky feeling that I'm sending money to MJ.

Watching that moonwalk video, I was reminded of how very attractive he was in 1983. No wonder I had a small crush on him at age 6. What on earth possessed him to mess that up I'll never understand.

Well said, CP.

Vincent Van Gogh lobbed off his own ear to show his love for a prostitute.

Yet, his works are highly revered and people speak of his talents, rather than discussing what a crazy mother****er he really was. Sadly, the press wasn't around to sensationalize it in those days.

And, quite frankly, I'm tired of the hype given to ugly paintings throughout the centuries. Hell, I wouldn't even hang them in my bathroom. Why the hell should they deserve being displayed in a museum when they're painted by crazy-ass mofos?

Crazy people shouldn't be admired, even if they've created good works. ;)

Sorry... just channeling some of the "logic" I've heard today in various forums.

I'd really like someone to point out an artist who didn't do some kind of wacky **** in their lifetime.

Or, better yet, would everyone who likes to point fingers at the wrongdoings of celebs still look "perfectly sane and normal" if virtually every action they perform was caught on tape? I know damn well that some people would be repulsed at knowing about some fetishes/desires/thoughts that "normal" people keep under wraps.

I think CP makes a good point. Yes, he was a troubled man, mostly by product of his environment. But, to hear people flat out call him a pedophile, freak, etc. based on media hype is just crass and ignorant.

Dphile: I guess the major difference was that, with MJ being alive, admiration and patronization of their works led to money in their pocket. We can enjoy the works of Van Gogh without being concerned that purchasing prints of his work help fund him stalking his exes.

With MJ, until today, enjoying his works, or works he owned the rights to, meant indirectly putting money in his pocket that he could use to lure little boys (ala Neverland Ranch).

Jackson made some great freaking music, especially in his early days before he "got too weird" (to quote my dad's friend who used to be his interior designer). And now that he is no longer a danger to anyone, we can once again appreciate his works without the spectre of who he is overshadowing our enjoyment.

And before you get on my case about this, remember how you are more than happy to revile Michael Vick, even though he was a good football player. Surely you can agree that the crimes can affect appreciation of the talent.

Simple difference - Michael Vick was convicted of his crimes.

And, how do you know that MJ was a "danger" to people and used his money to "lure little boys" to his ranch? Were you there? Did you see the evidence firsthand? Media hype is quite convincing, isn't it?

What about people who state, "I can't wait for so-and-so to be legal age"? I'm sure most of us here have seen/heard that very statement on here. If people were to see that and weren't familiar with this board or its members, they'd probably start thinking, "What a sick pedophile!" too.

I knew this would happen, so I'll shut my mouth now. But, I'm certainly not alone in how I feel, and thankfully, I know that.

Whoa hey, don't get me wrong... I'll still give him credit for the work he's done. But I can't say that my enjoyment of his works wasn't sullied by my belief in his wrongdoing.

Got an email tonight from a friend of mine (very much a straight shooter). Slightly edited to protect privacy.

I don't think this is a good example. The only reason most people know who Van Gogh is, is because he took off the ear. Seriously, people who couldn't pick out one of his paintings in a lineup with cereal boxes will be able to tell you what a crazy mother****er he was.

That said, I never considered him a freak because of the bleaching and plastic surgery. All indications were the he was severely emotionally crippled in various ways and certainly was eccentric (and I suspect he wasn't necessarily aware that he was eccentric) but I never cared what he did to his body. But then, even though my two first musical memories involve him, I remained indifferent to his brand of fame so he was just a curiosity that occasionally came up.

The TV journalist's template for the Significant Celebrity Death:

DP, I don't necessarily want to get into it with you, because you're obviously a bit touchy about it ... and someone you cared for and admired just died, so that's perfectly cool.

But need I remind you OJ was never convicted of a thing. The justice system is not so perfect that we need rely on it completely. I guess people in California really DO have the right to take away my civil rights, huh? The Court says so.

I hope you'll at least grant dispensation to Jazzman, whose own grandmother relayed to him testimony she heard as a juror in court. Conviction not necessary for her particular convictions.


I know it's in poor taste to speak ill of the dead, and I don't want to belabor this point. But in MJ's case, his "legacy" is indeed mixed ... and every news outlet in the world concurs. I don't think we must shy away from that on the LoT.


I'll certainly grant talent often travels side-by-side with eccentricity. But Michael inspired quite a debate over his character while he was alive, and I don't see how that's going to be stifled upon his shocking and untimely death.

No you're not alone. I am also sick of people calling him a pedophile when he was acquitted- fer goodness sake- innocent until proven guilty unless your convicted in the court of public opinion by people who need something- ANYTHING-to explain to themselves why someone who is different and a little odd must have something sick and wrong with them-

Maybe it makes them feel better to condemn him in their own minds for something that a legal court could not-

Whatever-

He was found responsible for their deaths in a civil case-but not the criminal case.

So yea, he was convicted-he was made by the courts to pay for their deaths.

MJ was not- at all.

MJ paid a reported $25 million to keep a civil case from actually going to trial after which the paid off family refused to participate in the criminal trial, forcing it to be abandoned (this is the accusation from the early '90s).

I don't really have strong feelings on the issue but the perception that Michael Jackson did some bad things to young boys is not without some justification.

Curious - In your opinion Nephy, why did MJ make the huge payoff he did to the family of that one young boy?

Do you find it inappropriate for a man who isn't the father of young boys (admittedly) having cookies and milk in bed with them?

Media can trial anyone and make anyone innocent or guilty without the need for a court. We all know that.

My own belief (and I'll just pop my 2c in here just to balance the scales) is that MJ was yearning to recapture the child within so badly. In part (a lot, actually) I understand where he came from. I spend a lot of time (way too much, in fact) trying to recapture the experiences, smells, tastes, feelings of the childhood I remember fondly (and also changing history for myself by re-writing unhappy memories too).

Do I wish I could have my own personal Disneyland in my backyard? One where I could go without being bothered by the press, and one I can fill with kids who appreciate it for it's innocence, it's fun, just the giddy in-the-moment times you have as a kid without worrying about where the family meals are going to come from, or who might be waiting to lop down the tall poppies?

You betcha.

Would I build a house where I could invite those kids who are sick, dying, or from underpriviledged homes to spend some happy days watching movies, having fun and forgetting their own sadness outside at home - just letting them know they can be happy and teaching them to carry the flame of happiness within when all without appears lost? I'd love to.

I'm not going to comment on any other stuff either, because there will always be the "nobody knows what went on behind closed doors" argument from plenty of folk - actually, let me just say that I believe this is the reason that he may have settled with the families: Without evidene one way or the other, if a child makes an accusation at the urging of parents in order to reap a large settlement, wouldn't you just settle out of court, rather than be found guilty by a media-biased jury (and you've all said a lot of people believe he was strange anyway, so why not just believe the kid, huh? - bias that would be easy to engender in the jury) , but I just wanted to say that I personally don't believe the Adult Child that was Michael Jackson meant to give those kids anything more than the Ohana love, support and happiness he so desperately wanted for himself.

End of soapbox.

Oh, Stoat wants to add: Who can't think of at least one person who hasn't at one time or another thrown money at a problem to make it go away quickly, even though they're not personally responsible for the problem? (My EG: Kevy at a certain dinner ?)

No- it's not- but he was not convicted and there is room to believe he was the victim.

-as for the family- if someone had touched my kid I would not take a payoff. So that makes me suspect that they just wanted the money in the first place- not justice.

A mistake? Wanted to make it go away. MJ seemed like just a big kid- and frankly not very worldly wise- and I think the people around him hurt him more than they helped him. -and like I said, why did they take it? Because they wanted the $$$$- not justice for their kid.

-and weird, odd, unique- yes-but not inherently menacing or sexual. I think there is proof galore of his driving need to stay in childhood-at any cost. Children have sleepovers-

Was he emotionally stunted, immature- yes. A sick predator? I don't believe so-in the end, God will judge-not us.

MJ's life became grotesque but his artistry remains forever sublime.

Peace to all who grieve.

I am open to that possibility (like I said, I have no strong feelings one way or the other) but if people didn't really like his music I honestly don't think there'd be any significant portion of the population that would give him that benefit of the doubt, especially in the face of two separate accusations from children.

I've certainly never seen such a benefit given to any other person in the face of such accusations.

Yes, there is. But that's true of everybody at some point who faces such charges. Yet, Michael Jackson is the only case where I've seen people bend over backwards and give such support to the idea that in the absence of a criminal conviction nothing happened.

That's not a bad idea, just one that rarely has broad support. Except when celebrities of a certain level are involved.

-I think I question how much of the accusation came from the children and how much came from their parents who saw dollar signs when they looked at MJ.

Yes. That's my point, if you didn't like his music you probably wouldn't question that.

Celebrity and wealth has its rewards. It buys doubt.

I'm pretty well convinced that what he engaged in was the kinds of non-sexual sexual games that children play with each other. "You show me yours, I'll show you mine. Let's play doctor." I have no basis for that other than the public evidence of his stunted emotional maturity and clear attempts to recapture his childhood. He probably felt like he was acting just like one of the kids, doing things that, when done between two adolescents, are perfectly innocent and natural, but when done by an adult with an adolescent are at best creepy and worst wildly inappropriate, even if no actual sex act is involved.

I don't think he ever intended to abuse or harm children, he probably thought he was doing them a service by being an adult who "understood" them. In that way, I more pitied him than anything. He didn't fit in the adult world and he wasn't allowed (rightly) to participate in the childhood world he wished he could.

My belief that those parents saw a payday in MJ have nothing to do with me liking his music.

I am not a fan of many kinds of music-I would suspect the same if any of them were accused of the same.

If they are tried and convicted- then I'm wrong about them.

Her name was Rappe, she was asking for it.

:eek:

Um, no, she was not. Virginia Rappe was not only a hapless victim who died by causes still unknown (beyond a ruptured bladdar and a massive infection that killed her). She was also one of the first in a long line of "blame the victim" defense. Much like Lana Clarkson deserved being shot by Phil Spector.

What happened in Arbuckle's room for those 15 minutes will never be known, but Rappe was not a whore nor a drunk who deserved to die.

A friend of mine has been researching the Arbuckle trials for the last five years. Poor Virginia got not only a bad "rappe" she ended up very dead.

Arbuckle and his cronies at the party, (and the resoident doctor of the St. Francis) hotel shuttled her off to another room (1227) so as not to cast a pall on the festivities. Not one of them, Arbuckle included, inquire about herafter she fell ill. Only one person, the person she arrived with stayed with her until she was then taken to a local hospital a few blocks away on Sutter Street. Whereupon she had the ultimate bad taste as a guest in party pooping, to die.

Arbuckle's crack defense team then took the opportunity to sully her reputation for the sake of their client. And so it was writ.

Just to clarify things, GD. :)

Ummm, yeah, I know. Rappe--rape, purely a spelling joke.

Nice save you misogynist!

I'm firmly with Lashbear on this, great post by him. I don't know if anyone has read about Lewis Carroll but it was a very similar case. A man who liked being a child rather than an adult and had not-very-appropriate relationships with children. In both cases I believe that they did not actually touch the kids.

Even so, I'd never say "he wasn't convicted therefore he was innocent". I have to say that sounds ridiculous to me. There are plenty of wrong verdicts in court cases because they are conducted by human beings and are fallible.

I feel nothing but pity for these poor men regarding their inability to let go of childish things. I feel much more pity for those that have the same problems and aren't brightly shining genius millionaires.

BTW, Morrigoon makes a great point about not wanting to line the wallet of a man who at the very least seems unstable and at the worst may have harmed children. The Michael Vick comparison is pretty apt as well.

As others have said, their legacy is mixed, and that's the way it should be, as it's the truth, no matter how you look at it. MJ was a messed up person. Now that he's gone, we can celebrate the gifts he gave us, and not be concerned that he will cause any harm to anyone, anymore.

So one of the blogs I follow belongs to a theatrical costumer, and she pointed out today that Michael Jackson actually contributed to the design (and patent) of a theatrical device/footwear. Thought I'd share. Apparently it was used in the Smooth Criminal video. (I haven't pulled it up to confirm)

edit: Yep, a little over 7 minutes into it

This best sums up my feelings on it.

Interesting article on the toll his death took on the internet yesterday.

I do not think it is fair to compare Arbuckle with Spector. For one, Arbuckle was found to be not guilty and by no less then three separate juries.

To quote one such Arbuckle jury, "Acquital is not enough for R.A. We feel a grave injustice has been done him and there was not the slightest proof to connect him in any way with the commission of any crime."

Wow. There were only 3 posts commenting on Farrah Fawcett's death, before being utterly eclipsed by 12 pages, so far, commenting on Michael Jackson's.

I loved this image used in the story linked to by MBC:

Arbuckle's attorneys wrote the statement, apparently for jury #3. According to my friend's reserach on the subject. Regardless, Arbuckle was screwed, too and suffered for the remaining years of his life.

I never said a crime was done with regard to Arbuckle. We will never know what happened in the room of 1219 for the 15 or so minutes Arbuckle and Rappe were in there. All evidence points to the fact she was ill and Arbuckle testified at the Grand Jury that he was helping her as she was ill. What caused her internal injuries nobody will ever really know. She was painted in the press as nothing more than a bad girl and ultimately as one who did not deserve to live. Yellow journalism and attorney's working to save their client from a manslaughter charge.

My point about Arbuckle and Spector was the defense use of blame the victim. Lana Clarkson was a person of quistionable character if you read some of the witness commentary for the defense, ergo, she deserved to die. Rappe was treated the same. That was my only point in referring to the case. If I confused, sorry!

FF was before my time...

I loved Farrah as a girl, my brother even had the infamous poster. I watched Charlie's angels but prefered Jacqueline Smith as my fav angel, probably because I thought I looked more like her. I did not like it when Cheryl Ladd took Farrah's place, then I missed her on the show.

For me Michael Jackson will always be that sweet faced little boy who could sing like an angel with the Jackson 5. I also remember the solo song he did after that about his beloved pet dying, my only dog had just died so I related to it.

I'm just saddened that a lot of my 70's icons seem to be dying off. It makes me feel very old indeed!

"I love children, I'd never hurt one" is a common enough refrain among child abusers. As to Lewis Carroll, who knows? We err on both sides, probably, being unwilling to assume the worst about nice respectable people and all too willing to assume the worst about mild eccentrics.

As to not wanting to let go of childhood, I think we all have our ways of doing that to some extent or another. But if you're going to talk like a toddler, walk up and down the street with a pony and invite little kids to come in your backyard and bury you in the sand, you can't blame people for what they think of you.

Interesting...

There is already talk of setting up Neverland Ranch for tours much like Graceland.

What do you think? Would you go?

I would like to point out, as others have done, that OJ was convicted in the civil trial, but not the criminal trial. There was only a criminal trial for MJ, which has an elevated burden of proof. Would your opinion have changed if he was convicted in a civil suit?

In his later years (i.e. the last 15ish), he was seriously mentally disturbed and creepy as all getout. When I said that many people (me included) would most remember him as such isn't all that surprising -- as Morrigoon pointed out, we lived through it. There were tons of mentally disturbed people that we revere today as creative geniuses, but we didn't have to live through their particular insanity. If you lived in the same city as crazy alcoholic/drug addicted Edgar Allan Poe, I'd venture to guess that the crazy alcoholic/drug addict behaviour that you observed would overshadow the genius that later generations have viewed him as.

So I think that yes, the next generation will mostly "remember" MJ as an innovative musical genius. But not by the people that through half their lives, MJ was a crazy freakin mofo.

That's just my 2 cents about the matter, but my opinion is not always "correct" either ;)

Already been. Don't think I'd go back.

No coaster, right?

Especially considering that the $22 million payoff in 1994 was all but a civil suit conviction. One that meant the family would not testify in the criminal trial that was going on and had to be scrapped for lack of evidence (i.e., the family not testifying). The only criminal trial that went to jury was in 2005, well after the initial accusations, accusations that, were they baseless, probably wouldn't have required $22 million go make go away.

Many thought it was unfair that OJ had to endure the civil trial after being acquitted in the criminal trial. However, double jeopardy doesn't work that way.

Had there never been a civil trial, I'm sure we all still have had our opinions based on what we heard at the trial and in the news about OJ's guilt. All an acquittal really means for sure is that an accused doesn't have to go to prison, he can still vote, own a firearm, and be considered for positions for which a felony conviction might be a bar. However, no prospective employer would have to ignore what they heard at the trial. And no prospective social acquaintance would have to ignore it either.

So.. I should stop doing it ?

They'd have to install FastPass for sure !! those flat rides have low capacity.

Hey, speak for yourself - I'm an old bugger and lived through it all too, remember? :p

and just wondering (no, really) why do people have to think of him as only one OR the other, can't you remember him as a crazy person who was ALSO an innovative musical genius? (and I don't think he ever FO'd his MO, so that ephitet doesn't apply, either.)

Oh, I definitely think of him as a crazy musical talent. He's not any sort of "genius" in my book, but maybe that's because I was meh about his style of music, for the most part.

Being incredibly popular does not make him a "genius." I suppose that criteria would make James Cameron a genius filmmaker for directing the world's most popular film. Doesn't wash.

So an incredibly talented, bizarrely eccentric, mentally disturbed, likely pedophiliac person is how I will remember him.

Yes, lashbear it is a "both/and" rather than an "either/or". I'm just not going to remember him as the person he was during the first 15 years of my life and conveniently dismiss who he was during the past 16.

Smooth criminal
 

Not a lot of love in the room for MJ. No doubt the man had his demons, perhaps more then any one person deserved. We can debate if Jackson was a genius or not but there should be no argument that he was immensely talented and creative. His stamp will be on popular culture for as long as there is popular culture (and stamps). Michael Jackson is Elvis. Michael Jackson is The Beatles. Michael Jackson is the 1980s. His influence on dance is incalculable. Just watch an episode of So You Think You Can Dance and tell me if I am wrong. If Michael had done nothing but this video, I'd say he was worthy of inclusion on any list of greats. I do not have a single MJ song on my itunes, but that is a mistake I will correct. I'll miss the guy. I really will.

For anyone interested, VH1 is playing MJ videos all weekend

I honestly am more saddened by Fawcett's passing than MJ's.

I'm more saddened by what's still happening in Iran.

Dude, let's focus on the important things. Celebrities are dying left and right! If this keeps up we'll soon be all out.

Now that I have the time to do so, I will post my thoughts on MJ

Creatively, he was brilliant. Some of his songs and musical messages are actually very deep and touching emotionally. Yes, you can find lyrics and messages otherwise, but much of his music was transformative. And as we have been watching his videos this morning, I am reminded of what a great dancer he was.

But for many, all of that is superseded by his personal life.

He was eccentric. And there are allegations and what appears to be damning circumstantial evidence that he had inappropriate contact with children. I've had my doubts over the years and have often thought there were just too many allegations for there not to be a kernel of truth to the stories.

But in thinking about his life and talking about it with others, there are a lot of factors to look at. For starters, there have been a lot of evidence and stories of the father (Joseph) being very abusive and pushing his children way too hard.

Next, MJ became a huge star when he was just 10 years old and has been in the spotlight ever since. Yes, some people have come through this same kind of upbringing without issues, but it is not an easy way to grow up. Basically, MJ never really had a childhood. Consequently, he spent the rest of his life (or at least a big chunk of it) looking to be a child. Not consciously - just a way for the psyche to cope.

I suspect that there may very well have been incidents of what society would definitely consider inappropriate. However, I don't believe that there was sexual contact. I believe it was just a hurt boy was simply trying to find his lost childhood. I doubt there was anything more than what any children would be doing (as in: no sexual contact). Yes, it was probably inappropriate and illegal, but nothing like what has been portrayed in the media and in the minds of most.

^ I pretty much agree with all of this.

Please forgive my ignorance, but did MJ write his own material?

I never cared enough to find out, but he always seemed "merely" a performer to me. Singer, great dancer. But maybe something about him not playing an instrument always gave me the impression he was of the old, old school that simply sang tunes penned by other people.


I liked a handful of his songs ... and might like a few more but for having never heard much of his non-hit stuff. Is he the writer? Some of it? Most of it? None?

Yes, Jackson was himself a songwriter.

I don't know which songs he wrote and didn't but I did see mention somewhere in the recent coverage that he is in the Songwriters Hall of Fame (no idea how prestigious that is).

While he didn't write everything he did, he did write a fair amount. 4 of the 12 tacks on Thriller, 9 of the 11 on Bad. He was definitely a main contributor to his own work.

He also co-wrote "We are the World" with Lionel Richie.

Yeah, that's his most prominent song writing credit. I don't love it as a song, but I get why it's respected like it is. Much like All You Need Is Love. Right songs for the right time.

Is it bad for me to wish someone else would die so the talk of MJ will stop?

Hey, we could. not. take. it. any more with the tv coverage last night.

I'm glad I don't watch TV! It was enough to hear NPR talking to Spike Lee about MJ today.

I had no TV until just now. I've at least missed the worst of it.

Or so you think. Just wait for the ****storm when it is learned that OJ was his demerol source.

I've let the LoT be my only MJ input. So not overloaded in the least.


Oh, except that two of my friends el jayed about it. Including Bryan, who dressed as Captain EO for last Halloween. I did not realize it was the culmination of a several week MJ mania on his part.

DJ spun a bit of Jackson Five and Michael Jackson at the cemetery screening tonight. The MJ tune just before showtime got EVERYONE up and dancing. It was touching and awesome.


But Ghoulish Delight was right .... we were in a cemetery, so how could you NOT play Thriller???

WTF universe?

Billy Mays died.

Wow. Just, wow.

And to make Mays' death a little weirder, it turns out that yesterday he was on a plane which blew out its front tire on landing. No injuries reported, but if it turns out Mays dies of a heart attack or something similar, you have to wonder if someone the stress from that combined with his usual high-strung state had anything to do with it.

His son's twitter stream.

The marvels of our modern age. Getting to participate directly in the grief of people we don't actually know.

Or care about?

Interesting. After the hard landing, Mays said that stuff fell and hit him on the head. Wonder if that had anything to do with it.

It's weird. We've been watching Pitchmen so I suddenly have been seeing Billy Mays oin TV a lot, as well as his son. Had this happened before a few months ago I would have hardly taken notice, but now it seems I oddly care a bit more.

That's how I feel too.

I do wonder if he had a concussion from the stuff that hit him.

I'm sure he was a lovely man, and from what I understand, in real life he sounded nothing like the pitchman for the infomercials. Nothing ever made me hit the mute faster than the voice that was silenced today. I feel for his family, but I also feel a sense of relief.

I'm sure the autopsy will check for head trauma as well as DVT, which can be caused by microscopic seat-pitch on commercial airlines. I can't help but wonder why he was flying commercial anyway, since (according to a recent "Pitchmen" episode) he and Sullivan had just bought a private jet.

Same here. I watched the first episode because when I saw the preview spot I was amazed that anyone would do a show about these guys, but was almost immediately hooked. Mays and Sullivan actually seem to be good guys who do their job well and believe in the products they sell. Whether or not I would actually buy anything they pitch, I respect it.

Another Pitchmen watcher here, and I feel real sadness for his family.

I guess God needed a pitchman. You can count me in as a closet pitchmen watcher.


I see many possible reasons: This was a personal trip, the "jet" is just puffery for show and not really used regularly, Sully was using it, etc....

And more than likely they charter the plane for business, I doubt they actually bought it, it's just not a particularly cost effective option.

I semi enjoyed the couple episodes I saw but I pretty much treated it like an infomercial for infomercials. As such I just kind of assume that the "personal" stuff shown is just as likely to be a performance as not.

True, and a lot of the "fights" were obviously staged. Even so, his son was working side by side with them on nearly every product shoot. There was an episode where they visited Billy Mays' father and showed one of his (kinda wacky) product ideas. The crappy show wasn't able to hide the fact that this family is pretty closely knit, and that they all worked together.

I have no idea who this person is, but reading about the plane incident makes me think of Natasha Richardson.

And then there is Billy's final tweet:

Of course not !!! He's a Celebrity, therefore his death must be related to any or all of the prescription drugs he was on at the time of death. I call for an autopsy to see if he was on pain killers. Or sleeping tablets. It must be that, cos it can't possibly be natural causes. Who can we blame if it's natural causes ?!?! There's no-one for the family to sue if it's only natural causes.


sorry, just tired of all the media hype over the MJ painkiller thing. Maybe we're getting more of it than the USA, but boy, are they really pushing that bandwagon or what?

There is no way you are getting more of it than in the USA. It's freakin' EVERYWHERE and non stop.

And the carnage continues: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/.../us_obit_storm

Funny, when I clicked the link it said Obit Storm, and I assumed it was an article about how many deaths there had been

No kidding! We had Chinese tonight and my fortune cookie said, "Mama-se, mama-sa, ma-ma-coo-sa!" There's no escaping it! :D




Just kidding, by the way.

What carnage? She was an 87 year old woman.

What hype? Until recently, I was not even aware of what these little pills could do to someone's heart. I am quite sure I am not alone.

What caught my eye about the Gale Storm article was that it actually used the word "oater," which I've never seen outside of a crossword puzzle.

As in, "Peeyew! What's that oater? I think yer horse needs a bath!"

I don't know about the media hype. I don't seem to be getting much of it at all. Then again, I stopped watching most television news years ago, somehow I still manage to know what's going on from the internet. My DVR keeps me from seeing most commercial breaks on the shows I watch, and, try as I may to find a radio station in L.A. playing MJ's music, it's just not there. Since I don't generally listen to commercial radio, save the occasional 10 minutes on the AM news stations, again, I'm not being bombarded. I love my ipod for exactly that reason. I can download the podcasts that are interesting to me, and the rest of the time I have 8,000 some-odd pieces of music to listen to. What do they say, "There are no victims, only volunteers?" I know my TV has an off button.

well, you probably need to try to watch Australian TV without the aid of DVR one time and see how many newsbreaks about him there are, and how many references to him people in other tv shows are making. I expect to see stuff about him if I'm watching the news, but not in other programs.

Um, WHAT? No DVR? That really is a barbaric country you've got down there.

My heart goes out to all of you who have not yet been shown The Way.

Another (minor) celebrity death: Fred Travelena - I remember him mostly from talk show appearances in the 70s and 80s, but he was a good impressionist.

I wonder if he kept the big '70s hair.

As to Billy Mays, I think I'm having the same reaction I had when Steve Irwin died: "He was so very young, so very loud and so very ON TV. How could this sloppy, real life thing happen?"

This whole thing is just like an earthquake.

Fawcett was the foreshock
MJ was the big one
Mays, Storm, and Travelena are the aftershocks - dwindleing in significance as time passes...



Then again... Maybe I just didn't get enough sleep last night.

Nope
___________________________________________

Here is a very long article by Ian Halperin of the London Daily Mail. I don't know this person or his credentials, but he sounds like he had a good connection to MJ and what he says is pretty damning.

A star on the Walk-of-Fame I would not have guessed. Fred, we hardly knew ye.

Aw! I remember Fred! We was a really cool guy! Nice too. :(

Then again, I grew up in Vegas.

Speaking of the Walk of Fame...

When Ringo Starr gets his star in 2010, that will leave Paul McCartney as the only Beatle without a star as a solo artist. How the hell did Ringo get one before Paul?!?

He (or someone involved in something he was promoting) was willing to pay for it.

Step 1 of getting a star on the Walk of Fame is asking for it. Step 2 is being selected from those "nominated." Step 3 is giving them $25,000.

If you want to fill this gap you can submit an application on behalf of McCartney (though you'll need to include a letter of consent from him with the application). You and he will need to agree who is paying the 25k. If McCartney doesn't care to get one, and no PR person has convinced him to do it anyway, he'll never get one.

I'm still trying to figure out why I know Fred Travalena. As soon as I saw the name I even had a face to go with it. My best guess is that it's because he was on Hollywood Squares in the 80's.

Hmm, imdb says he impersonated Michael Jackson at the 1992 MTV VMAs.

Heheh. I went looking for more and found this recent stuff. Even on a crappy youtube vid you can see he really nails the impressions.

CNN is saying that there will be a public viewing of MJ sometime this weekend at Neverland Ranch.

That should cause quite the traffic jam.

Maybe they'll put him in the Ferris wheel so more people can see him at a time.

Cripes, just what we need, Graceland West, complete with shrine.

I hope it has plenty of comfortable seating for all those waiting for the resurection.

It's on Friday. I'm actually very tempted to go. (I'd still be back in time for dinner and show.)

Care to make a friendly wager on that timetable?

Well, I am known for being overly optimistic.

Although, it could possibly happen if I head up there at the asscrack of dawn. But, that would also depend on if people camp out the night before.

And, there are plenty enough MJ fans who would probably do that sort of thing.

So, consider me toying with the idea for now... until the details come out which will help with my final decision. ;)

If the family decides to bury him there ala "Graceland" style, I'll wait and go another time to pay my respects.

DP - you need to find someone with a helicopter. ;)

In a desperate attempt to avoid doing actual work, I pulled up Google Earth and had a look at Neverland Ranch:

A two lane road to/from the ranch, a narrow single lane driveway onto/off the property with no way to make a loop. Honestly I don't see how they think they can logistically pull this off. Perhaps they will close the road entirely and run buses?

That's weird... I thought I heard someone else owned the property now. Guess I heard wrong.

That's what they did back in 1999 (could have been 2000) for a public charity dinner event that was $700 per ticket. I was going to attend, but the company I worked for just shut down, so I didn't have the funds. Anyway, they had designated parking areas, all the way down to Ventura, and then shuttled everyone via buses to/from the ranch.

A company that he partially owns technically owns the ranch. It was purchased that way to prevent him from losing it during his financial downfall.

AHHHH.... smart

The dead can tweet

"like being caught in a flesh storm with a 90% chance of satisfaction." Lisa, does that sound about right?

Okay, I dashed this off pretty quickly. Just struck me today after reading about the viewing at Neverland.

Oh yeah, baby!

You know, I wish I HAD slept with Jeff Goldblum. Good thing I still can!

Excellent writing! :snap:

New Beverly Cinema is showing "The Wiz" on July 15-16th

I just rewatched The Wiz two nights ago, and wow, what a mixed bag. The pacing is leaden, certain numbers ("He's The Wiz") are shot in such dim light, they defeat the considerable energy of the performers themselves. Oz is a stark, depressing place (but not in as interesting a way as say Return To Oz), and Diana Ross is just plain miscast. (Not only too old, but in the opening scenes, her shyness seems like a full-blown pathology. How can this character possibly be a teacher?!) The final scene seems to drag on forever. There are odd choices everywhere. It's a mess, plain and simple.

BUT - Michael Jackson is fantastic in this. He's energetic, brilliantly physical and charming. (And beneath the make-up and costume, he still looks like himself!) I do wish there had been more and better opportunities for MJ to strut his stuff on the big screen, especially back when he seemed so full of joy and humanity. (How far south that went, alas.)

Also, I love the "Everybody Rejoice" number, especially when the dancers strip down to their bikini briefs. It's one of the sexiest screenfuls of delicious brown skin you'll ever see.

On the whole, it's impossible to recommend this movie, but there are moments when a remarkable movie peeks through the lameness. Bigtime missed opportunity. (I'm tempted to blame screenwriter Joel Schumaker.)

News just reported that MJ had been living in a rented house in Holmby Hills. Huh. Knowing he was a Disney fan, I found that amusing.

I find it hard to believe that he would have relied on a will and not have set up trusts for his kids so his assets could bypass probate.

It's on Carolwood Dr. too.

Anyway, I think my plans for the Neverland trip on Friday are already foiled. Just got a call from a friend who said people are already camping under the overpasses on the 101 so they can watch the cavalcade procession TWO days from now. :eek:

This is going to be much bigger than Elvis. Mostly already is, seeing the photos that are coming from other countries of mass memorials, etc. He inspired a LOT of people around the globe, even in third world areas.

I'm suspecting that television programming around the world will come to a screeching halt on Thursday for live coverage.

What a legacy and impact!

Hitler takes the news hard.

Haha, that was great. I love the Hitler freakout videos.

Just remember, will or no will, probate or no probate, the Death of Michael Jackson will keep many lawyers fully employed for the next few decades.

True, John Wayne died with a will and his estate was still in probate for nearly a quarter century.

But apparently he (Jackson) did have at least one will out there and the children apparently have massive assets safely stored in a trust.

TeeHee, that footage can be used till the end of time for so many things to come.


This was one of my favorites. Thank God for Hitler.

My favorite tribute so far is Billie Tweets - A Twitter tribute to Michael Jackson

That was great!

I can't help but wonder how Seth Rudetsky got involved in it though....


In case you don't know who he is, this is one of my favorite bits of his.

I just got my copy of the last issue (#46) of the E-Ticket magazine. I will miss that publication.

RIP E-Ticket. I enjoyed the ride.....

How do they DO that ?? :cool:

That's an especially good one, actually cracked me up.

Um, what's with the last half of that?

I dunno. But I couldn't find a better one, so I went ahead and posted that one.

Did I post the Dolly Parton message yet?

I fvcking love that woman.

http://www.towleroad.com/2009/06/a-m...l-jackson.html

Dolly is Total Class. I love her to bits.

WOW! This is news that both Chris and I are incredibly saddened by.

Choreographer Pina Bausch dies

Another article.

She was simply amazing and I'm glad I got to experience her company while she was alive.

Wow, this saddens me greatly - she is one choreographer I seriously contemplated traveling around the world to capture her premiers when I learned we had just missed her in Tokyo.

Her work, a blend of performance art and dance always left me mesmerized with it's elaborate constructions and destructions.

Me too.

I keep reading "I love her two tits"

Karl Malden 93

The Streets of San Francisco will never be the same. RIP

SF Gate

He was the oldest living male winner of an acting Oscar. Now I have to go remind myself who was second in line.

It looks like logistics finally caught up with best intentions.

There will not be a public viewing of MJ at Neverland.

farewell Mr Malden. you were always one of my faves

Cripes, today I feel like the Grim Reaper.

Fargo fans (or musical fans) RIP Harve Presnell

Holy Fvck, they are dropping like flies!!

If I was famous, I'd be sh!tting in my pants right about now...

People, stop emailing me, please!

RIP Mollie Sugden

BBC Report

Ernest Borgnine, to answer my own question.

He was awesome in those fiber ads.

Wait a minute.... I keep getting him and Wilford Brimley mixed up.

R.I.P., Mollie. You will be missed. And I am unanimous in that opinion.

Damn...

Mrs. Slocombe is no longer free :(

They say a change is as good as a holiday...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

That's the last we'll hear of her pussy. :(

Mollie was hilarious. I'm so glad I have the full run of "Are You Being Served" - it's a never-fail pick-me-up. RIP Mollie

He's still alive??

Awww... Mollie got served. RIP.

That sucks. I've been working on a script with him in mind.

Seriously.

And for you sports fans of a certain age:

Alexis Arguello

Sort of the Garry Kasparov of the boxing world, as these things go.

MJ- the links....

This one turned out to be untrue

Bodyguard says there was a secret girlfriend

Big Funeral- not going to happen?

Why Bubbles will not be attending the funeral.

On going series-

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

I think I will pick up the book eventually-and then this morning a Denver radio talk show host was opining how he was convinced MJ was a homosexual and a pedophile.

Shedding no tears

Lovely-

Larry King seems to be giving MJ's death the Nancy Grace treatment: all Michael, all of the time. Surely something else sort of newsworthy has happened in the past week?

Yes, he just penned his autobiography and did a book signing at Larry Edmunds in Hollywood.

Perhaps all the deaths lately were staged to distract us from some other event.....

I don't care about Larry King doing it. That's what he always done and spending the week on MJ is actually preferable to the alternative which was probably an hour or two of Sylvia Browne.

Everybody else doing it is crazy. Though similar to Larry King I'd be fine with Glenn Beck doing it. But everybody else? Time to move on.

And I was writing a poem with him in mind!

Scoff if you like, but that's two people I envisioned being in movies of mine who have died before the vision could be realized. Presnell, at least can be replaced. With the other one, the whole bit would have to be canned.

The latest rumor about MJ I heard is that he was castrated as a child to keep his voice high (father's decision, hence the estrangement). This explains why he could not father children of his own. It also explains why. during the pedophile cases, it was claimed that the children could identify MJ's private parts because they were "different".

Interesting theory to be sure.

That was nice of Larry.

It might also explain why MJ was willing to pay out millions to keep those kids quite.

But of course it would not explain why the kids were seeing his private parts in the first place.....

Aww. Mollie Sudgen died.
The lovely Mrs. Slocombe from "Are You Being Served" is gone.
:(

What again?

I hear it does not get any easier the second go around.

Oops! Didn't go back far enough reading posts.
Oh well.

I thought I was having deja vous!

That's totally overkill.

I guess unlike Michael Jackson, Mollie can die twice.

Looks like the memorial for MJ will be taking place at the Staples Center on Tuesday. According to news, 11,000 tickets will be issued free-of-charge to the general public starting tomorrow via a "registration system". Something tells me I'll be seeing those tickets on Ebay by the afternoon. :rolleyes:

Hopefully, I can land one, because I'd like to go. But, I'm definitely not going to support a lowlife scalper and buy one.

D'phile, I'd also like to go! Maybe we can carpool!

Sounds good. Also, with both of us trying to get through on the "registration system", it doubles our chances of scoring tickets. I'll keep a watch out for the info and call or text you with it. :)

Post it here before it happens and I'll see if I can help.

I'll keep my cell charged and will of course let you know if I see anything as well. I'm usually up by 7:30, so I'll keep my eyes and ears peeled first thing tomorrow!

Thanks. :)

Ideally, they'll require a name which will then be checked via ID at ticket pick-up or something to prevent people who will try to profit from it.

Wow. That almost makes too much sense.

If that were true, it would be noted in the autopsy, and I think we would have heard about it.

I would hope that a patients right to privacy would not die with them.

Unless it was a contributing factor in his death there is no reason details about MJ (or anyone else) should be released.

Hmm ... nah. I know too many men who have voices with the same pitch and tenor as Michael, and as far as I know, they are still "fully equipped." (Two who come to mind are also professional drag queens - and damn good ones. I sometimes do music arrangements for them.)

In any case, MJ's high tenor voice did not have the unnatural quality of castrati - think of a boy soprano, and that's more what castrati sound like.

In a perfect world, perhaps, but I think this is public information, and The Smoking Gun has a number of autopsy and investigative reports into celebrity deaths on its web site.

Yes, in time it might leak out but that's very different from your assertion that the medical examiner would have released that information.

I guess I wasn't perfectly clear, but I didn't mean that the coroner or the police would mention it at a press conference if it wasn't relevant. I meant more that it would leak out. Of course, if it is publicly available information, it's not a question of leaking. It's a question of somebody in the press going, "Hmm, I wonder what's in Michael Jackson's autopsy."

Upon further review, it appears that the autopsy report would be exempt from disclosure under the California Public Records Act at least as long as there was a concrete possibility that it related to a law enforcement action.

For now, burden of proof is on those making the claim. Anyone who says they actually know that MJ was castrated needs to say how they know.

Obviously, even if untrue, this is going to be a successful meme, because it seems to "explain everything." Always a red flag as far as I'm concerned. Until there's evidence, this is a wild notion.

I repeat my contention that his singing voice is perfectly within the range of a normal male tenor - stylized, yes - unnaturally high? No. There's nothing unusual about it. His speaking style is soft and breathy, but that scarcely requires castration. Has anyone here honestly never heard an adult male with a similar soft-high voice? Happens all the time.

I'm with flippy on this one. I think that child molestation is such a horrible crime that people seem to need an explanation for it, even if an easy answer is never forthcoming.

But as the saying goes, "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story."

Debbie wants custody.

Which would put poor little Blanket in a mess wouldn't it?

Jordie Chandler says he lied for his dad.

Gold Coffin

Empty Neverland

Part 5 of the Mail series excerpts.

Last Video-and the smile at the end breaks my heart because I know what came next.

I'm sure people will say he was paid to say that now. :rolleyes:

According to another article that I read, it pinned the "obvious" profile that Michael was a pedophile, because he was a childless person with a home that was decorated with child-like things, surrounded by toys and animals, and would play like a kid with kids whenever they came over.

If that's what makes an "obvious" profile of a pedophile, then maybe I should change the first half of my screen name, because according to some media, I'm already guilty, and given popular mob mentality, there should be people slurring my reputation all over. :rolleyes: And, for those of you who haven't seen our home, it's pretty much a mini Neverland into itself. And, when kids have come over, (we don't mind watching our friends' kids for free, so that must also make us "suspicious"), we love playing games with them, watching Disney movies, and I'll often even cook fun food like Mickey Mouse ravioli, etc. Oh the horror! People should never let their kids around me, because I'm obviously a freak. :rolleyes:

Last night, I was scrolling through family pictures of MJ and his kids - taken at birthday parties, riding in the car, etc., etc. They are similar to what I've seen of most parents' photo albums. Despite media rumors, the kids were around and played with other children. The kids also look happy and healthy. Can it be that MJ was actually a human being? What will people do if they find out that he was actually a wonderful father? :eek:

Sorry that I'm dripping in sarcasm here, but I'm honestly sick of all the crap that people still feel the need to dish out. (i.e. "Don't forget he's a pedophile!", etc., etc.) Maybe they can hold up signs and protest the funeral in classic Phelps style.

By the way, Elvis was also technically a pedophile (began his relationship with Priscilla when she was 14) and a rapist (forced himself upon her in his Vegas hotel room in 1972). Yet, we don't hear people talking about that, do we?

And, look how many times Disney has paid out settlements for things they're not even guilty of - it's called picking one's battles for the better of business.

But, I'm not going to change anyone's minds, and I know that. I just don't understand the need to keep slamming someone based on personal beliefs. Ever since it's been going on, it reminds me of the "Kill the Beast" montage in "Beauty and the Beast":



I think this part sums up that mentality perfectly:

We don't like
What we don't understand
In fact it scares us
And this monster is mysterious at least
Bring your guns
Bring your knives
Save your children and your wives
We'll save our village and our lives
We'll kill the Beast!