The Pope has passed away
 

Just thought I would start a thread and share some of my thoughts about the passing of John Paul II.

I know that there are many non-believers on the boards. I would consider myself one of them. Still, I do recognize that this was a remarkable man who did much to better the world. His reaching out to other religions is something that was unheard of before his reign. He was a courageous man who lived such an interesting life.

I am saddened by his passing. I think he was a man who had firm conviction in what he believed. I also think he was a compassionate and loving man who lived his life as a fine example of his faith and religion. I didn't agree with many things that he did or that the Catholic Church stands for. I do respect though that he did what he believed was right. I can respect him for the good that he did without agreeing with all of his beliefs.

I am happy that he is not suffering anymore. Parkinson's disease is a horrible illness. I wish him peace wherever he is and mourn his loss.

I know that a lot of people may not agree with these sentiments and I respect that. Again, I just think it is possible to have compassion and respect for someone who you also may strongly disagree with.

Your thoughts?

Wonderful sentiments MBC. I would agree with most of what you said.

I don't consider myself a "non-belliever," I just follow a different path than Christianity and Catholicism. This is not the time or place to air my grievances, so I shall keep to myself for now out of respect.

Two humourous bits: The Pope's plane is called "Shepard One." The other will only make sense if you are a fan of Mel Brooks' movies (particularly "Blazing Saddles" and "History of the World, Part I"), so Not Aclue won't get it. The Catholic commentator being interviewed on a news channel GusGus was watching referred to PJP-II as a "Gifted" Pope.

Rest in Peace Pope John Paul II. And a blessing to the Catholic church for a smooth and successful transition.

My sympathies to Catholics everywhere.

I found this description on selecting a new Pope for those interested.

I recall at one point he laid a lot of blame on the worlds ills on "atheism" - which I think, was a euphamism/synonym to him for communism. Still, replace that noun with a more familiar one, and it was hate speech pure and simple.

It will be interesting to see what the next Pope will bring.

My condolences to Catholics everywhere - and especially on this board.

I'm with you MBC.

I've been against organized religion for quite a while now. I think man telling man what their life is about is wrong. And the Pope is head of probably the biggest organization religion has.

But I can't help but be touched by who he was as a man, not as a religious figure. What his life ment, what he did, who he was. A man is measured by his actions and I don't think many can measure up to what he's done. Historically, he is one of a few that you will be able to say made the last century and back what it was. You think of figures like Abraham Lincoln, Jesus Christ, JFK and for better or worse, Hitler, Stallin, Gandhi, Martin Luthor King Jr. Mother Theresa, Walt Disney, etc. John Paul II was one of a small list that you could put in that sort of group. I think that is what this day is about. His death marks the end of a whole life of a man that was one of the greatest figures in the history of mankind.

What is also sad is that I don't think there is anyone living now that could be or become such an extraordinary soul and have the impact on the world as he did.

He was someone who inspired this non-Catholic in quite a few ways.

I remember when Sinead O'Conner ripped his picture up on SNL. I never quite understood that.

I was amazed at his effectiveness in assisting with the downfall of the Soviet Union. I think without him, Thatcher and Reagan have a much more difficult time.

MBC, good words, you wordsmith, you.

This week, when I was in Mexico, one of the guys who works for the organization we go through came and told me that he knew because we're a Catholic group that we'd want to know that the Pope received his "Last Rites." I admit I got a bit teary.

I was about three when he became Pope. He's basically the only Pope I've had. He was really awesome with teenagers. I'm stuggling to find the words to express what I'm trying to say, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm sad that he won't be at World Youth Day when we take the teens from our church this year.

I'm of course very interested to see the outcome of the conclave. But the confirmation coordinator in me cringes to think of all those Cardinals away from their diocese's during confirmation season.

I'm *very* sad today. I also just found out that my brothers' friend and former Ataris drummer Derrick Plourde commited suicide while I was away. :(

Well, as someone who is gay, I can say in no uncertain terms that I felt at times that what he said was hurtful and disappointing. But I also realize that this came from what his religion taught him. I really couldn't expect him to go against his faith. Likewise, it is hard to imagine the leader and spokesperson of his religion saying "I'm cool with atheists not believing what I think is the most important factor of human existence." He believed that those that didn't believe were subjecting themselves to eternal torment and suffering. If that is what you believe, you are going to do your best to change people because you truly think that is what is best for them. Now, I don't have to believe the same thing and I don't. But I can understand that, in his view, he wasn't coming from a place of hate, but rather of love.

I remember when my grandfather told me at the dinner table one night that "The Beatles are responsible for destroying this country with their music and their drugs." He was telling this to someone who had already worn out most of my Beatles albums from hundreds of listens. I realized though that we only have our own life experiences in which to base our decisions on things. He came from a very different time and place than I did. As uninformed as he may have been, in his heart, he believed his position was correct. That had a profound effect on me to learn that I could respect someone and still think that some of their opinions are totally out of touch with reality. ( Hi scaeagles! :))

Well, I guess I'll choose to be flattered that thinking of your grandfather would remind you of me rather than pointing out it is because you thought he was out of touch with reality. :)

And those Beatles did ruin our country, dag nab it!

i hear ya, sister:snap: :evil:

In high school, we always called priests like that "Fr. Whatawaste".

I must see a photo of Fr. Whatawaste!

I think MBC has pretty much summed up everything I'd like to say perfectly.

While I may not agree with him or the church all the time, I do have respect for the position he held, much the same way I do for the president or other leader of a large group. It is not always an easy job, and the decisions he made affects many people. I happened to be with my parents at a catholic church function yesterday, and seeing how the Pope's condition affected them reinforced that point.
My thoughts are with those that are touched by this loss.

CNN has PLENTY of coverage if you want more. I don't think they have covered anything else today.

:p

[Derail cont.]If the "sins" were juicy enough, you may have been doing him a favor, but that is just my state of mind right now. :eek: [/derail]

Just cause they're forbidden doesn't mean they're not hot! ;)

YAY!

Oh, don't mind Name. I'll try and contain him. :D

Everone mourns in their own way. You are not going to hell. But by some chance you end up there, rest assured you'll be in great company (some lady told me I was going to hell the other day) ;)

It'll be a hell of a party.

I concur on this one...holy cow he's a hottie! Good thing I'm Lutheran!

I saw him on MSNBC. I'm sure they will replay it a few times tonight :D

Ah good, at least I won't be lonely in Hell...

nah, I go where the party is.

Who is this Fr. Thomas Williams you guys seem positively fervent about?! This man from the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University? or some NBC religious news personality?

yep that was him...but he looked sooooooo much better than that picture

Okay. I'm going to to e-mail him asking for some new 8x10 headshots.

Yum!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol! He is pretty cute... This reminds me of when my friend Betty died. She was good friends with Father Bell, a youngish and very good looking priest here in Spokane. Anyway, she went jogging with him frequently, and she joked about all the fantasies she had and how she was destined to hell for them. (Mostly she talked about how good he looked in jogging shorts). She wound up developing cancer, and it was very aggressive- she died just a few months after diagnosis. We were all devastated, but the one thing that kept me from just breaking down at her service was picturing Father Bell (who officiated) in jogging shorts...... I was telling others about it later and I discovered Betty wasn't the only one with a Thorne Birds style jones for the good monsigneur.

In my opinion. this isn't a reason to mourn.....its more a reason to celebrate...a man that has lived his life to its fullest has gone on to the hereafter. I prefer the italian method of applause for a life well lived. He was a man that lived his convictions to their fullest, and lived what he believed his purpose to be....so I applaud you Pope John Paul II(insert birth name in place of Pope John Paul II), you have lived well.

Right on, Name. Very well said, and I agree wholeheartedly.

yeah, its amazing the clarity some good (greenish tinted) liquor will give one sometimes... :D

Well said, Name. Speaking of name, his given name at birth was Karol Jozef Wojtyla (voy-TIH-wah).

Brat. Send some up north, willya?

sorry, I got mine just for personal consumption. :D :p

Bogart.:rolleyes:

Last night I was contemplating how big a role the Catholic church plays in modern life. Even today, many religions or belief-systems define themselves in relation to Rome. Anglicans? Not Catholic. Protestants? Not Catholic. It's success at maintaining a cohesive whole through the centuries makes it the default for Christianity. (Maybe not as much in the US, but certainly worldwide.) I don't want to minimize the contributions of other major faith groups, but by virtue of having a single global head, the Catholic Church becomes a sort of morality spokesperson.

And so then I was thinking -- there are gobs of things I wish the Catholic Church did differently. But at the same time I wonder -- part of their success has likely been consistency. And given their influence on so many other groups, I wonder what would happen if a Pope did suddenly make the changes some call for. Could actually be rather catastrophic.

I was expressing this much more eloquently in my head in the shower this morning. Sorry. :(

Vatican II proved to be less than successful.....

unlike

(This is a serious query)

A significant number of our family are practicing Catholics. Would it be appropriate to send a sympathy card? Is there a protocol for this?

*Gasp* What?! I love the Ataris! How stinking sad.

I'm sorry. I don't have much to say about the Pope. I don't know anything about him. I'm sorry that others are sad though.

I hope this isn't tasteless, as I just mean it as an observation, but I found it so odd that whenever they showed the Pope on TV he was surrounded by gold and silk and jewels and ornate lavishness. It seems so against everything Jesus stood for. I wonder how the Pope felt about it.

I know that seems odd, Trac. I am a Catholic (quasi-practicing, of the sort known as 'cafeteria Catholic': take the good message and drown out the rest) and have some trouble with that too. Knowing the history of gifts accepted (as passages into heaven, yes, buy your way in!) by the church, it doesn't seem contrary to expectation.

My favorite bishop, Ken Untner, had such trouble with such things that he sold the palacial bishop's rectory in Michigan and rotated from parish to parish throughout his time in the position. He also was the first bishop to grant little girls the position of altar server (I was part of the early years of that!) and deemed that the Saginaw song of blessing have two verses. They begin:

May God bless you and keep you, may he let his face shine upon you
and
May God bless you and keep you, may she let her face shine upon you

He'd have made such a great pope. Too bad he was blacklisted from becoming a cardinal. He passed away last year-- and his replacement promptly bought another palacial bishop's rectory. And did away with the second verse of the blessing.

As for John Paul II, he did some good things (aid for poverty, among them.) He did some things long-in-coming (acknowledging that the church should not have supported the Nazi party.) And he did some bad things (proclaiming that gay marriage is evidence of the evil in our world.) I don't begrudge him his flaws; he was only a man.

Must not launch into history lesson on medieval heresies, the typical characteristics of reformer heresies, and the socio-economic conditions that alternately supported and suppressed such heresies.

Anyone else think it's creepy showing him on TV all dead and displayed? Like he could just sit up at any minute and go about life.

I LOVE TA SINGA, ABOUT THE MOONA AND THE JUNA, I LOVE TO SWINGA!!

Either that or

HELLO MY BABY HELLO MY HONEY, HELLO MY RAGTIME GAAAAALLLL....

Yeah, then the other Cardinals can start a kick line and start into...

"The Inquisition, let's begin...
the Inquisition, look out sin!"

Did somebody say...Inquisition?

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!


(Oh, puhlease...you really didn't expect that to go unchallenged?)

OMG! Why does it always end up here????

Much like the Simpsons, Python's body of work was so extensive that there's hardly a situation or topic that can't be linked to it in some way.

I wasn't really looking for a "real" answer.

I keep expecting more of a Weekend at Bernie's. Cardinal Ratzinger goes over and props up the pope. See, he's not dead! Of course, I've been saying that that's really what's been going on for years now.

Tasteless, I know. But what do you expect from the person who had this conversation with my coworker yesterday:
Me: "You killed the Mexico trip!"
Him: "What about you, you killed the World Youth Day trip!"
Me: "OMG, you're right! I killed the pope!"
My coworker then walked away to avoid the lightening strike.

I wouldn't mind if we went back to the selling of indulgences, I just might need to buy my way out of hell.

Have you guys heard about the Pope Prophecy?

It seems that a Pope, a long long long time ago, made a prophecy about every Pope that would be appointed until "The End".

There is one "normal" Pope to go and then the last Pope, Peter the Roman, will charm everyone... but he's really Satan and will bring about "The End".

Oooooh. I guess they should avoid Popes with the name Peter. ;)

Which is appropriate. Because as wendybeth already noted:

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

In fact those who do.....

But...you did know who it was, and that's progress, NA!:snap:

We'll Pythonise you yet.....;):D

Apparently the Pope is still dead

Thanks for the update. I was just gonna go check.

That would be the prophecies of St. Malachy, who does not name the last pope as Satan, but says he will be taken in by the Anti-Christ and usher in the End Times.

"
St. Malachy

Perhaps the most famous prophecies about Popes allegedly come from St. Malachy O’Morgair, Archbishop of Armagh, Ireland. While in Rome to visit Pope Innocent II in 1139, Malachy had a vision in which he gave specific clues about the identities of every Pope to follow Innocent II to the end of time! These prophecies were hidden away until they were finally published in 1590. There is still an ongoing debate as to whether they are genuine prophecies from St. Malachy or are forgeries. Either way, they seem to have an eerie accuracy.

For example, these were his names for the three most recent Popes we’ve had:

• Paul VI (1963-1978) he called Flos florum, which means “flower of flowers.” Paul VI’s coat of arms bore the image of three lilies.
• John Paul I (1978) was called De medietate Lunae, meaning “of the half of the moon.” John Paul reigned for about a month – from half a moon to the next half.
• John Paul II (1978-) he named as De labore Solis, or “from the labor of the sun.” John Paul II was born during a solar eclipse.

There are only two Popes named by St. Malachy after John Paul II. The first he names Gloria olivae. The second will be named Peter, and he may be the last Pope. Malachy’s prophecy about Peter says, “In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep through many tribulations, at the term of which the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge his people.”

The end of the world?

(Source: See Prophecy of St. Malachy for a complete list of the Popes he names.)
Also see The Last Pope: The Decline and Fall of the Church of Rome: The Prophecies of St. Malachy for the New Millennium by John Hogue."

Of COURSE I know what it is! I have spent the last 25 years listening to snippits of dialog from Python movies recited over and over. I think it started with the rabbit with teeth (Insert Universal Hand Symbol for mandables) or the "I'll turn you into a newt.........I got better" line, and it never stopped - ever. It is one of primary reasons I don't want to have anything to do with Python.

Really? Not even....Confuse A Cat ?

:D

Yes, even that - although this line was funny to me today "Startle-A-Thompson's Gazelle LTD."

Well, obviously you've never had a cat in need of a good confusing. Lucky girl. It's a sad thing, and a bit frightening as well. They just lay there, day after day, with no energy or ambition....In fact, I think Boris is in need of confusing. BB in a minute.


(Muzak playing in background...)


Okay- he's better.
Thank you Monty Python!;):p

I only WISH my cats would just sit there. They are waaaay too bouncy - except Lyra.


(Runs off to check on the Pope.)

You know, the man in the cat detector van says you need a license for your Boris. I just got one for my pet halibut. (I picked him out of thousands. I didn't like the others; they were all too flat.)

The looney detector van, you mean.

I am not a looney! Why should I be attired with the epithet looney merely because I have a pet halibut? I've heard tell that Sir Gerald Nabardo has a pet prawn called Simon - you wouldn't call him a looney - furthermore, Dawn Pailthorpe, the lady show-jumper, had a clam, called Stafford, after the late Chancellor, Allan Bullock has two pikes, both called Chris, and Marcel Proust had an haddock! So, if you're calling the author of 'A la recherche du temps perdu' a looney, I shall have to ask you to step outside!

All right, all right. You want a licence?

I think the Pope is dead.

The Pope is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. This is a late Pope. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. If he hadn't been embalmed and laid in state, he would be pushing up daisies. He's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. He is an ex-Pope.

(I'm so very, very sorry)

Damn but I can not give you more mojo at this time, mousepod!

(Are you sure he's not pining for the fjords?)

Why am I reading this thread? I'm not Catholic and I want nothing to do with Python. I must be a masochist. :rolleyes:

I think the Pope needs FastPass.

I am very sorry, but I must interrupt this thread.



It is getting entirely too silly.

I heard yesterday, on KFI, that he wasn't actually embalmbed. Just prepared for viewing. They speculated that meant makeup and a lot of cologne.

If he's not embalmbed, just how long will he...um....last there like that? :eek:

He's gonna melt like a chocolate bunny in the window of a Winabego.

On another level: I've heard that the recently dead sometimes have involuntary movement. Like, what would happen if suddenly the Pope's legs flew up, or if his arm swung out or even worse if he passed some gas (aka fart) during one of those quiet moments.

We'd see it all on CNN. One more reason to watch...

I watched lots of pope funeral coverage today. Here are my thoughts:

From the angel on one shoulder -- the Catholic Church is this amazing and enduring structure overlaid on top of shifting political boundaries. Its leader is appointed, not elected, and reigns until death or resignation. While I was watching today, I had this momentary feeling of history -- of feeling the panic just under the surface my ancestors somewhere must have felt when their leaders died -- papal or political. That's an enormous seat of power and it's empty. Will the transition be smooth? What will the next leader be like? There's anticipation, eagerness, and most clearly -- fear. The amazing shared experience of ritual is comforting as it manifests a sense of community necessary to successful transition to a new era.

The devil on the other shoulder says: Hey! That one guy carrying the coffin is super hot! At the end of the service, he was second from the feet on the pope's left. (Heck, I think the rest of them were much older.)