NFL '09
 

Training camps are wrapping up, pre season's begun. Football's coming, football's coming!

Let's get the top two circus stories out of the way.

If any bunch of assholes deserves Mike Vick, it's Philadelphia fans. It'll be hard to sort out who's booing because they've decided to play the game of hating him from who's booing because they've got one less dog fighting outfit to attend on their trips to Florida. I just hope McNabb plays well enough to keep Vick out of a starting role.

Did anyone really believe we'd heard the last of Favre? So it's obvious that he planned this so he wouldn't have to attend training camp. But do you think he was also prescient enough to plan it so that he could steal the spotlight from Vick rather than vice versa? I'd guess yes.

With that out of the way, the real football stories I'm interested in are Matt Cassel moving to KC, Tom Brady's return, and whether the Colts can absorb the loss of Harrison and a less-than-invincible Manning with a weak offensive line.

On the Vick story, so far as I'm concerned, the dog fighting should be entirely irrelevant to his playing. I wouldn't buy his merchandise (not that I buy any merchandise) and I have no belief that he is a reformed person or honestly remorseful about what he's done, but I wouldn't care at all if he played for any of the teams I support (the Eagles are not among them). And if he played well I'd be glad for the contribution.

As for the rest of football, no opinion. I don't start following it at all until kickoff of the first real game. Didn't even know that Favre was possibility unretiring. Again.

Awwww geeze...

Like I don't already get enough **** in the MLB '09 thread for my hometown team. :(

Looking forward to the season, as always.

Vick paid his debt to society. I have no problem with him playing. I don't really care one way or the other.

Favre needs to hang it up. Go out with some dignity left. I've always liked him, but it's getting old.

My biggest story line is if my local Cardinals were simply a flash in the pan or if they can do something good again.

It's just gone from possibly to essentially definitely. Yesterday a few anonymous players were saying it was going to happen, now, while still officially unconfirmed, multiple sources are reporting that a 1 year deal has been signed.

I don't think dignity had a lot to do with it. A one season $10,000,000 paycheck makes retirement planning a lot easier. Especially if he's seen a good 40-50% of his portfolio evaporate over the last year like the rest of us.

On a personal note, I can't freaking wait for Football season to get here. I have joined a Poker league that meets during Monday night football games. :snap:

Dang, that's heaven.

Can I be you?

One fact overlooked in the hysteria about Michael Vick's return is that Michael Vick sucks.

The Cardinals should enjoy a competitive advantage, especially at home with Arizona's open carry laws.

As to Moonliner's poker/football night, why not just mix in roving naked women and then you'll have three things that each should command your full attention but don't get it. Ridiculous.

If they're smart the Eagles will mold him into a specialist. Wildcat formations, occasional receiver, perhaps kick returner. A role where his pure athletic ability will serve him and he doesn't have to rely on his obviously faulty decision making abilities.

Since when does Monday Night Football command full attention?

That's the point. I don't give one whit about Football. So while the other guys are watching the end zones, I'll be watching betting patterns, hand ranges, and stealing blinds. As an added bonus, the host serves free booze (I'm a solid non drinker).

But if you add in naked women then I'd be sunk.

Kissing Suzy Kolber put the boots to that Christian homophobe Tony Dungy today.

Link

I know that Dungy is born again and pretty conservative religiously and therefore I assume he's not the biggest supporter of gays in the world but is there some particular offense by him I'm unaware of?

In other words, that reads like it is a telling a joke that requires background information I just don't have.

He's been a very vocal opponent of gay marriage.

I rooted for the Arizona Cardinals in their surprising run last year, and I want to thank them now for making me excited about the 49ers again.

I guess I should have included "and stays healthy enough".

I got my first "football" lesson. Damn, that game is easier to understand than hockey!

Make it 10 yards in 4 tries. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Go Redskins! They actually had an amazing opening against the nasty Giants yesterday. Losing by much less that I had expected.

Go you skins!

Wow. Arizona Cardinals suck, and Kurt Warner looks like his best is certainly behind him.

Hmm, must be one of those games you had to see to appreciate the suckiness. Watching recaps, they didn't seem THAT bad. I mean, they did score 13 straight points to take the lead, and pulled off some good time management to get the ball back for a final drive. But I'll take your guys' word for it that the summary didn't tell the whole story.

Definitely not the entire story. Warner is already immobile, and he missed open receivers, threw unforced interceptions....just did not look good.

That being said, they were only 9-7 last year. Maybe they'll get better.

They got better.

Reports of Kurt Warner's demise have been greatly exaggerated. They did indeed get better. Warner had a record setting day - 24/26. New NFL record for completion percentage in a game (over 20 attempts, I think).

I'm getting the feeling the Niners could run the table and Ernie Singletary will still be dishing out withering looks.

Another banner day in the annals of Washington Sports. :rolleyes:

There should be a head coaching job up on craigslist soon if anyone is interested.

At least they're not as bad as the Li....oh.

Painful way to lose for the 49ers. Can't believe that foot was in.

They got worse.

One might almost suspect a mean is being regressed.

Their O-line certainly regressed.

I'm annoyed that I wasn't watching that last play by Favre.

Because had I been watching, it wouldn't have happened.

w00t. 4-0 with the top point total in my fantasy league so far. I mostly have Peyton Manning and Chris Johnson to thank for that (though Matt Schaub has turned into a surprisingly adequate bye week replacement for Manning).

The Ralph Wiggum Experience is 3-1. I've lost the first game every year since I started playing fantasy football. It's kinda my thing by now.

Boy, you have to be really smart to be that f*cking stupid.

The only reason the gods of sport did not relieve Jan Vandevelde of the rotting goat carcass of shame and place it around the neck of Bill Belichick is that last night was not for a championship.

Yeah, but the really stupid move was not letting Addai score with a minute left on that first-and-goal run from the two. Let's see: You don't trust your D enough to punt the ball but you trust them to stop Peyton Manning FOUR times from the two?

Let them take a one point lead and get Tommy Brady the ball with about 50 seconds left (granted, no timeouts) needing to get in field-goal range -- in a dome.

I've read some statistics this morning that do make a compelling case to me that based on the numbers, Belichik did the right thing. Kind of like the decision you face when hitting 16 against a dealer's 8. The odds are almost exactly the same either way but slightly better if you hit (but many people intuitively disagree and so stand figuring it is better to not bust).

That said, it does end up looking spectacularly stupid if it doesn't work. All the more so for going against conventional wisdom (which is the reason for all the stupid punts on fourth and 2 from the other team's 42 yard line).

So I agree that the real failure was misuse of his timeouts and then not allowing Addai into the end zone so you'd get the ball back with time.

One thing that I didn't quite understand though is everybody saying how this showed his contempt for his defense. Couldn't it be spun the other way as him saying "I'm going to go for this to ice the game now because I'm extremely confident that if we don't get it the defense can still keep them out of the end zone?"

Not letting them score, even on the play where they got to the two: also stupid.

Clock management: very stupid. Actually, I think the clock management/no replay/might have gotten the first down if reviewed screwjob was scripted by Vince McMahon.

Well, at least Belichick was gracious about it. He spent a nanosecond with the opposing coach.

Though I do wonder how much of the reaction is fueled by the visceral pleasure in getting to call Belichik and idiot.

Had any of you heard of Matt Schaub before this season? I certainly hadn't, and considering how little broadcast time the Texans get I probably still would barely have been aware of him had he not ended up on my fantasy team. And yet, I'm about to make the decision to start him next week over Peyton Manning.

Schaub isn't getting a whole lot of attention, probably because the Texans are only 5-4. But in terms of passing stats he's keeping pace with Manning, Brady, Brees. And the Texans are playing Tennessee, 2nd worst pass defense in the league, while Indy is going up against the Ravens. It feels so wrong to put Manning on the bench, but I think it's the right call.

Schaub's got my vote for surprise player of the year.

Yeah, the Falcons had Schaub but let him go in favor if Mike Vick a few years back. Schaub was supposed to break out last year but had injury problems. I tried to draft him on the cheap this year but he was snagged right in front of me.

You can't go wrong playing Schaub. For what it's worth, if I had both Manning and Schaub, I'd try to trade one of them. Probably Manning because name recognition would bring more in return.

I got lucky last night in my fantasy league....who would have thought the Raven's defense would outscore their QB Flacco and Rice combined? I went in to Monday night with an 8 pt lead over my opponent, having the Ravens D and he having those two.

w00t. Went in tonight down by 14 points, but I had Schaub and Chris Johnson. Feeling good.

Would still have won my matchup had I started Manning, but starting Schaub means I retained my overall point lead in the league.

Got my butt kicked. I knew I would when Warner went out in the first half and I have Fitzgerald and Breaston as receivers.

Still in first place in my league, though, at 8-3.

You have Ftizgerald and Breaston? What a homer.

They've been producing....at least until this week. breaston didn't have even a single catch. I took Breaston late because I figure Fitzgerald and Bouldin draw most of the doubles and the Cards run a lot of 3 receiver sets.

Well now, I have a good decision to make this week. Indy plays Houston again. In week 9, Manning out fantasy'd Schaub, but not by much. I don't think I can really go wrong with either, and I think they'll both be looking to outgun each other, should be a big week at QB for me either way. I'm leaning towards Manning. Houston's pass D is technically ranked higher, but Indy's D seems to have the stats edge in the columns that matter for fantasy scoring.

I've already locked up a playoff spot in my fantasy league, just a matter of whether I hold onto to 1st place going in.

It hinges on tonight's game. My opponent as Arizona's defense and Tim Hightower. So all I need is for SF to not turn over the ball, run up some points, and stop AZ's running game.

2nd place, here I come!

Undefeated Super Bowl!

I know it is unlikely but I think the earth would actually break in half from the hype such an event would trigger.

Well, neither of them have anyone on the schedule that should be a challenge, if the coaches decide not to sit starters with home field advantage locked. I think it's a good bet that at least one of the two will go 16-0. Playoffs of course being a different story. But boy would that be fun to watch if it does happen.

I can see the tagline now:

Super Bowl XLIV: Now just like the Fiesta Bowl!

Hmm, if both teams finish the season undefeated, but don't end up in the superbowl together, will Congress present a bill to enforce a BCS-style system in the NFL?

I expect the '72 Dolphins to go into full Gilooly mode on Manning and Brees before it can get to that point.

They were only one game late in getting to Tom Brady.

1. Peyton vs. Archie's team
2. Peyton vs. birth city
3. Katrina
4. 18-0 vs. 18-0

Good
Even though Thursday night games are broadcast on the NFL network, which we don't get with our cable package, they also show the game live on nfl.com. With a computer connected to the TV, this makes for easy viewing, if not HD.

Bad
Instant analysis of the drive I just watched from some schmoe with a touchscreen, that doesn't even finish in time to get back to the field. (missing, for example, the kickoff return for a touchdown that just happened). Fvcking lame.

Now I'm watching on my phone. Video is obviously worse - except for the part where it's actually video of football, not idiots in a studio and commercials.

1 undefeated left.

I almost pulled the trigger on a trade for a receiver...glad I didn't. Manning got me through the season in first place, and this week I'm glad I had Schaub there to back his undefeated resting ass up. I have to hope that Sid Rice doesn't have a monster game in Chicago tonight (I'm thinking that for each degree of perceived temperature drop due to windchill, there will be a corresponding increase of Brett Favre's perceived age). Barring that, victory is mine!

I assume Rice's 6 for 56 and a touchdown wasn't too monster for you to overcome, GD?

Iiiii aaam the champions. Iiiii aaam the champions. You are the losers, 'cause Iiii aaaam the champions......of the wooooorld.

Nice.


I was knocked out of the playoffs by the team I traded Flacco to thanks to Flacco throwing 4 touchdowns last week against the Bears. Real funny, Cosmos.

This ended a serious drought for me. My first playoff win in a full league since '05. Shameful.

So on the topic of real football, playoff predictions? I'm not even going to hazard a guess about who's getting the final 4 spots in the AFC, that's just a cluster. But I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the NFC wins the superbowl this year. Specifically, NO. I know they haven't looked the part for a couple weeks, but I think they'll ride their homefield advantage into Florida, and I think they'll just want it more than whoever they play. Unless it's Indy, in that case, Indy beats them.

The NFL playoffs are as wide open as I've ever seen. Out of the 12 playoff teams, I count nine teams (Colts, Pats, Chargers, every NFC team) that could make it to the Super Bowl and nobody would blink. Personally I think the Cowboys and Packers are most likely to represent the NFC; the Chargers or Colts the AFC. The Vikes seemingly are out of gas and the Saints messed up by taking a three game losing streak into the playoffs. Add that streak to the bye week the Saints have earned and by the time the Saints play next weekend, 5 weeks will have passed since the last Saints' victory. Too long, imo.

Holy freakin' cow that was a game yesterday - speaking of the Cardinals and Packers. Nice to see Sac so wrong so early. I can't claim I'm a huge Cards fan, but I am happy to see them doing well. And that was a game. Not much defense except for the last play of the game, and the largest collection of amazing catches in one game perhaps ever.

I do agree about the Saints going so long without winning a game. Of course, with how the Packers shredded the Cards D, and the fact that Green Bay had the second ranked D and the Saints D isn't supposed to be nearly as good, we could be looking at a 63-56 score next week.

I didn't watch the game, but I did catch the beautifully executed on-side kick in the (I think) the third quarter. Sure, it didn't matter (GB made it), but well done!

Theme for this year's playoffs: Missed Field Goals

I thought it was "If you behave we'll give you one interesting quarter in any given weekend. Ask not for more."

And it continues.

I'm pulling for the Jets, so you can bank on a Colts win.

So who are you sabotaging rooting for in the late game?

The Vikings.

You're welcome Saints fans.

Saints and Vikings didn't get either of our theme memos.

But I'm still dead on.

You can pay pal $10 for my Super Bowl pick.

Fortunately I'm on the record on this so it can't be labeled sour grapes.

But I do hate the NFL's overtime. Fun game to watch, though. The Viking offense really didn't deserve to be there anyway.

Moonie... blargh...

Alex... yes... hate the NFL's overtime rules. Unless a team is a complete F up, it's basically decided by the toss. Hate it!

Thank you, Moonie

Sudden death sucks. Hate it. Give them a full period to slug it out.

Favre has now choked two NFC championships. My God that was painful. Blah.

Go Colts!

If they're going to keep sudden death I think they need to eliminate the field goal, but would prefer they just keep playing until a quarter ends without a tie.

How about the idea I've seen in a few places, keep the overtime rules pretty much as is but drop the coin toss. In it's place, if you were on offense at the end of the 4th Quarter then you start overtime on defense.

And when the game ends on a missed field goal? The missing team is rewarded by getting the ball back or are they still considered to have been on offense even though possession flipped as soon as they missed it? And it seems to me that this would discourage teams even more from trying to win at the end of the game since if they go for it and come up just short they'll be automatically penalized whereas if they run the clock down taking knees to 1 second and then turn the ball over on downs they immediately get it back in overtime.

Though I'm not sure how that solves anything about the one-possession overtime being perceived as not particularly fair. But maybe I'm overlooking a benefit.

One game theory solution I've seen to overcome any concerns about "fair" is to have the opposing coaches bid for possession. The coach willing to take the worst starting position gets the ball and nobody can complain because the other side agreed to it or they could have bid worse. Could be made into quite the dramatic thing but would be kind of silly.

Howabout they put the "death" back in sudden death? The losing team gets summarily executed at the 50 yard line. Think of the money a clever owner could save on payroll! Probably get the best ratings in years, too.

Ok, sure. But that still doesn't resolve the issue of your rules for determining how to play the overtime and determine the winner. Probably just the issue more pressing.

I like the NCAA system.

I'd be fine with that, but just playing full quarters seems easiest to me.

I should say I don't really care if the current system remained during the regular season (still wouldn't like it but wouldn't be horribly bothered). But doing this in the playoffs seems really silly.

Favre didn't choke that away. Bad clock management and two lame-assed hand-offs on the first two downs to safeguard a 50 yard-ish field goal try choked that away. And oodles of fumbles.

As for the Jets: see me again when you're ready to play sixty minutes. When they let the Colts score that quick touchdown to make it 17-13 and the contented themselves with frittering away the last minute and a half of the first half, knowing they would get the second half kickoff, I knew it was over.

So both games turned out the way I was ostensibly rooting for, but I really wouldn't have been displeased to see any of the 4 teams in the superbowl. I think they all had the potential for an entertaining game, although this particular combination will likely mean a more offense-heavy affair.

Fun fact. This will be the first time since SuperBowl XXVIII in 1994 that the 2 #1 seeds will face each other (Dallas and Buffalo). It's only the 3rd time it's happened since the playoffs expanded to 12 teams in 1990 (the 1st time was in '92, Redskins and Buffalo). It happened 4 times in the previous 12 years when there were only 10 teams in the playoffs.

This also means that a #1 seed will win the SuperBowl for the first time since the Pats in '04.

So did I hear correctly this morning that this is the third time that Brett Favre has ended his career with an interception?

I know his last play with the Packers was one. Don't know if it was with the Jets as well.

Career? I think you mean "Season".

Oh wait, did you say "Farve?"

Never mind.

I love the Sears commercial with Favre there trying to make a decision on a TV. At least he can laugh about it too.

In the sequel he finally makes a decision but every time he tries to pay he gives his money to Macy's.

Saints by 6.

Colts by 11.

heartburn by 5:30

What's the over/under on that?

Lame commercials so far, though Leno doing a Letterman commercial is a surprise.

The first Doritos commercial (with the bark collar) was amusing

Bud and Dorritos are apparently the only companies left with $ in America.

My company's ad is coming up.

I didn't think so, but obviously somebody did.

All Indy in Q1 and all NO in Q2

Loved the casual Friday commercial. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Gutsy 4th down call and one hell of a defensive stand by the Colts.

Am I the only one that finds guys in their 60's (70's?) singing about a "Teenage waist land" sad?

Yeah, I lost a buck to Moonie Jr. on that one. Damn.

Daltry is 65 and Townsend is 64

In case you care

Maddie's just depressed that she knows the words to quite a number of Who songs - she blames me :)

I blame CSI.

Yes, but does she know the name of the song with the refrain "Teenage Wasteland?"

If she knows that, I will be VERY impressed
And House

The $1 bet with Moonie junior not withstanding, this game was just one more example of why I don't bet money on sports.

And why I should.

Weren't there two? Wolfman and Potterville?

The Potter one was the biggie of the two, though- The Wolfman has already been advertising a bit.

In the same way that it's snowed "a bit" at Moonie's place.

Can you get them to soft open Potterville for me next week?

Pleeezzee!

It's an improvement.

Yeah, it's better. Mostly I don't like that the NFL overtime essentially shortens the field by 30 yards.

Not only are kickoffs farther back than when the original rule was created but field goal kickers are massively better. The last time the year's best Field Goal kicker made less than 90% of his kicks was 1987 and 35 years ago you could make just 78% and lead the league.

Comment on Facebook from a friend:

"Are the Steelers the new Cowboys?"

I don't see anything wrong with "next point wins," but the fair way to do it is to let the team that had possession at the end of 60 minutes keep the ball where it had it.

It seems to me that would take a lot of the suspense out of the end of games that are tied as time is winding down since if you have the ball you wouldn't go for the game wining field goal (which if missed would mean giving the advantage to the other team to start overtime) but rather to let time run out so that you can then resume pushing down field without the time pressures and in no worse a position if you end up kicking a field goal anyway.

I say just add an extra period and take the "sudden death" out all together.

I say have all members of both teams take off their gear and everyone dukes it out on the 50 yard line. The last man standing indicates which team wins.

That would be ideal in my opinion but I can understand why the players wouldn't like it at all. Maybe one period but unless sudden kicked in after that there'd be the prospect of six, seven, eight quarter games and that is a lot of abuse.

Whether before or after overtime started, I think teams would still kick the 30 yard field goal to avoid the prospect of turnovers. They might not kick the 52 yard field goal in hopes of winning the game before the coin toss decides matters.

It all depends on where you set the line of blame. You can set it at, "Well, you had the chance to win the game in 60 minutes, but you didn't, so you deserve to have a coin flip give the advantage to the other team." I prefer to set it at "If you can't stop this team from scoring with the game on the line, we're not going to impose artificial time limits and coin tosses to save your butt."

I would add that the last minute drive to the game winning field goal is only truly exciting when the driving team is trailing by a point or two and faces the prospect of winning or losing. The last second kick by a team that is down by three, which succeeds in avoiding a loss but sends the game to overtime is somewhat less exciting. The last second longshot kick in a tie game made in an attempt to avoid is overtime is still less exciting.

Yeah, they'd probably still kick a chip shot field goal as soon as doing so guarantees victory (whether that is at the buzzer or, more likely the first play of overtime) but they're not going to be under any time pressure to get down field to have that chip shot. It would be like running a two-minute drill at the end of the third quarter since all that not scoring before the end of the game means is that you just continue your drive uninterrupted.

But then I think that they should just rid of kicking from football, set a touchdown to one point and then watch people still make fun of soccer for having so may 2-1 games (all of soccer's PR problems would be solved if they just called a goal six points, followed every goal with a post-goal penalty kick worth one point, and then gave three points for every shot on goal that hit the posts).

During the regular season even sudden death results in a tie if no one scores. Doesn't happen often, but it would mean at most one extra quarter. In the playoffs they would just need to suck it up - it's the playoffs.

In that case I see VERY conservative OT periods, with a high likelihood of ending with no scoring, teams preferring to play field position and avoid losing rather than play for the win.

I sill like the NCAA solution.

For the regular season I'm mostly ok with the current system. No, it isn't great but it doesn't matter all that much either.

For the post season I would not relish the idea of coming off a 7-quarter victory to face the Colts after they've enjoyed their opening round bye. As a viewer I'd be ok with it if that were the way it got set up but I can understand why players and coaches would be strongly opposed.

While we're fixing football, I say it's time to get rid of timeouts. With everybody miked up, there should be nothing to talk about. I shouldn't have to watch an extra five minutes of mancave commercials because the quarterback couldn't get the snap off or didn't like the defensive formation. If you don't like the defensive formation, deal with it or take a delay of game to talk about it.

As for the two minute drill, it might become the four minute drill, but that would be okay. If you aren't ahead by the end of the game, you don't deserve to have things made easier.

Same thing for basketball. If the other team is running you ragged, tough. There are no timeouts in boxing. It goes without saying that the last two minutes of most basketball games are virtually unwatchable.

I know it wouldn't fly, but how about making the football sudden death say that a touchdown must be scored to win the game?

And while we are fixing sports, let's make golf a full-contact sport!

The newly announced change is close to that. You can only win on the first possession of overtime if you score a touchdown. If you kick a fieldgoal the other team gets a shot and a field goal will continue overtime, a touchdown wins it, and a failure to score ends it.

GET IN THE HOLE!!