[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Yeah, there's just TONS of blood letting with baptism. Scars them for life, I tell ya!

If you're insinuating that circumcision scars a child for life, you are wrong. Anything that happens 8 days after a child is born will not be remembered. Ask any man who had one.

To me, it's the same as any religious ritual, blood or not.

I'm sure there are some men who grow up and eventually feel slighted that their flap of skin was removed. There are plenty of other people who grow up feeling slighted because they were raised with a certain religion or culture or whatever. Or maybe their parents never took them to Disneyland, or maybe they couldn't eat pork, or whatever. We all have baggage.

I've seen babies with pierced ears. Blood and pain so the baby can look good?

Originally Posted by NA

I think we should all only hold up our cultural traditions that involve mutilation for our children. All of the others can fall by the wayside.

If you are insinuating that I want other cultural traditions to fall by the wayside, you are wrong again.

Originally Posted by NA

Both dogs and cats can be distuptive to one's personal property. Scoundrel has many traditional "dog" traits in that he likes to chew. Cats don't usually exhibit that type of behaviour, but he does. Training for both dogs and cats will only do so much. I'm not going to remove Scoundrel's teeth or those of a puppy because he is chewing. If you can't handle animal behavious, don't own a pet.

My point exactly. I would never make my pet have a surgery just to convenience me. I only mention the difference in my mind between dogs and cats because I can deal with the damage a dog will inflict. If the dog has damaging problems, I'd train it. (I owned three dogs in my youth.) Cats are far less trainable. I say the same thing to all possible pet owners - if you can't handle animal behaviors, don't own a pet.

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

So there's no such thing as an inhumane surgery? Lobotomy ethically equivalent to apendectomy?

The claim that people make regarding the inhumanity of the claw surgery is that it is overly painful. Any surgery is very painful.

Originally Posted by Scrooge

Barring medical necessity, why not let the child decide when he's of the age to?

Because it COULD scar you for life if you have it at an older age. I don't have a dick but lordy, I think that one should do it before the age of awareness.

Medical authorities, the AMA no less, say there is no medical reason for this procedure on a newborn.

Very few people today would claim otherwise.

Why is it right and proper to operate on a boy's genitals with the parent's consent, but not a girl child? How many of you are ready to argue for female genital modification on a newborn?

You are working on misinformation about the differences between "female modification" and the Jewish Bris. The female procedure, done by some Islamic cultures, removes the freakin' pleasure centers. The Bris removes a flap of skin unnecessary for sexual pleasure.

Without getting too graphic, these body parts infolved are fused together much like the fingernail joins the flesh underneath. They can't be cut apart, they must be pulled apart, or ripped if you prefer. And without anesthetic, remember.

Again, untrue. I've witnessed many a Bris. The rabbi (who also always a certified MD) uses a scalpel. No pulling or ripping involved. The exterior flap is removed. And the baby is given a small amount of wine on a cloth to suck on.

I guess I'm thankful I've seen most of your pictures and I know for a fact most of you don't have bones in your noses.

*FOUL! alright, that was outta line apologize now*

I'm sorry.

You can't say whatever you want just because you apologize a line later.

I'd really rather people didn't test me by trying to say that me and my entire culture are brutal neanderthals. This coming from someone who is from an even smaller minority group that's discriminated against, namely being gay, is incredible to me.

Scrooge, I love ya, please don't insult me.