On Psalm 109 and Faith

[Gn2Dlnd]

So, Zazzle and CafePress have decided to stop carrying Psalms 109:8 merchandise:

This morning we made the decision to remove all Psalms 109:8 designs from CafePress.


General consensus has proven that the design does point to a broader interpretation of the Psalm and thus has been deemed inappropriate for sale at CafePress.

Here's the article at Crooksandliars.com.

Good for Zazzle and CafePress! I'm impressed with companies that aren't afraid of losing a few customers in order to do the right thing. Maybe the creepy bible misinterpretists (< made up word!) will take their balls and go home too? Sadly, I'm sure accusations of LEFT WING LOONIES CENSOR THE BIBLE!!!!! have already been thrown around by the gang at Fox News.

[Mousey Girl]

Even though I am not an Obama supporter, I find that verse quite offensive.

[€uroMeinke]

Can someone put some context around the verse for me?

[JWBear]

Psalm 109 is basically a long prayer for vengeance. Here it is in the New International Version Bible

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Psalm 109 is basically a long prayer for vengeance. Here it is in the New International Version Bible

So it's not intended for a specific person, but anyone who doesn't share your beliefs?

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

So it's not intended for a specific person, but anyone who doesn't share your beliefs?

It was written by David. He's praying to have God destroy his enemies and his enemies' families. I do not recall if they were of a different belief, but it is probable.

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by JWBear

It was written by David. He's praying to have God destroy his enemies and his enemies' families. I do not recall if they were of a different belief, but it is probable.

In one Jewish commentary I read, many of the "imprecatory psalms" were actually intended as a warning for Israel itself, by writers who thought the nation had gone astray.

(Most modern scholars agree that the psalms are the work of many hands, most of them writing post-exile, long after David. But, the earliest material in the book may date back to the earliest songs of temple worship. Even conservative scholars contend that David only wrote some of the psalms, and then helped anthologize other sacred songs into the book.)

I suspect the Christians behind the "Obama prayer" merchandise stumbled across the verse, saw the line about someone taking over the office, and thought they were being oh-so-clever. I doubt they paid the slightest attention to context. I'll even bet that if they were taken to task about "Let his days be short," they would say "Oh, we only mean his days in office. We would never wish death on anyone." And they would disclaim any attempt to add adjacent verses.

In other words, they have cherry-picked, which is something the fundies are long-practiced at. (So adept that they don't see it is themselves they are deceiving.)

On the other hand, I've heard there was a secret chord that David played, and it pleased the lord ...

[Gn2Dlnd]

Originally Posted by flippyshark

I'll even bet that if they were taken to task about "Let his days be short," they would say "Oh, we only mean his days in office. We would never wish death on anyone." And they would disclaim any attempt to add adjacent verses.

In other words, they have cherry-picked, which is something the fundies are long-practiced at. (So adept that they don't see it is themselves they are deceiving.)

I would say that this practice is not exclusive to "fundies." If I were asked for proof, I'd point to this thread.



I said, "IF."

[flippyshark]

Not exclusive, but fundamentalists of all stripes have certainly perfected the art, at great cost to humanity.

Even the venerable C.S. Lewis thought psalm 109 was horrible:

"In some of the Psalms the spirit of hatred which strikes us in the face is like the heat from a furnace mouth. In others the same spirit ceases to be frightful only by becoming (to a modern mind) almost comic in its naivety. Examples can be found all over the Psalter, but perhaps the worst is in 109.

The hatred is there--festering, gloating, undisguised--and also we should be wicked if we in any way condoned or approved it, or (worse still) used it to justify similar passions in ourselves."

I believe Lewis' sentiments are probably shared by the vast majority of practicing Christians, (at least, those who actually bother to read the Bible at all) but then, why do they continue to venerate these ancient writings? I know I went through many years of cognitive dissonance myself before I abandoned the whole enterprise.

[Ghoulish Delight]

You're all wrong. The Qur'an has a corner on the market of offensively murderous content. It's the ONLY religious tome that calls for the death of one's enemies.