Dick Durbin

scaeagles · 06-17-2005, 11:03 AM

I am surprised that no one has posted about this, so I will. I will provide links to specifics of his statements, but he compared the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo to what Nazis or Pol Pot would do.

I find this disgusting and reprehensible.

Apparently his words stem from an FBI report of a detainee chained to the floor. Sometimes temperatures in interrogation rooms were cooled to 60 degrees. Or heated over 100. They might be yelled at. They might not get water for a while. Would I want to be treated that way? No. But it is not comparable in any way to starvation or mass executions or death marches or or whatever.

None of these things are against the Geneva convention. I hate to say that, because as ununiformed enemy combatants, the Geneva convention does not apply to them.

They are fed religiously and culturally acceptable food. They are provided religious texts and prayer matts and quiet times for prayer.

Trent Lott was stripped of his leadership position for praising Strom Thurmond. Should not Durbin receive some sort of penalty or censure for his comments? Should not John McCain come forward and explain to him what torture is in a prison camp that deserves comparison to the worst in history?

Dick Durbin is a disgusting individual.

Tref · 06-17-2005, 11:41 AM

It is funny what disgusts some people. I have read that many prisoners have not even been charged with a crime, yet. And is it true they live in cages? That is what the newspapers report.

What about those that have been beaten to death? Or, violated anally with chemical light sticks? Congress was shown photos of prisoners that had been mutilated. Many, many, more have died during interrogations. That must be some interrogation! What type of camp do you believe those guys would say they were in? If you answered, death camp, then you are correct!

You mention that the prisoners are being fed. Well, I suppose that is very nice of us, indeed. Imagine that. We are feeding our prisoners.

I think you may be mis-channeling your disgust. I dig where you are coming from, my brother, but you need to stay focused. Durbins words will pass -- that's hyperbole. The brutal torture of prisoners by Americans -- that's reality.

mousepod · 06-17-2005, 11:47 AM

Yeah yeah yeah.

There was a great bit on The Daily Show last night that used the Dick Durbin clip as a take-off point to show how Conservatives get crazy when Liberals use the Hitler reference and then how the Conservatives use the Hitler comparison too. As far as I'm concerned Durbin's an idiot. But so is Santorum.

You can watch the clip right here

Scrooge McSam · 06-17-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I am surprised that no one has posted about this, so I will.

Surprised? Why, exactly? I notice the silence on these boards about the Downing Street Memo is deafening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I will provide links to specifics of his statements, but he compared the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo to what Nazis or Pol Pot would do.

This is not true. Many would call it an outright lie, but as I strive to maintain respect for those with whom I disagree, I will not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I find this disgusting and reprehensible.

Parrotting right wing distortions is what I call disgusting and reprehensible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Would I want to be treated that way? No. But it is not comparable in any way to starvation or mass executions or death marches or or whatever.

This, folks, is how the twisting of the truth begins. Mr. Durbin did NOT say that what the US is accused of is in any way equivalent to the crimes of the Nazis, Pol Pot, etc. What he did say is that if the average citizen were to see a catalog of the crimes reported to have taken place in these prisons, they would find it hard to believe that the America they know could be responsible. He said they would be more likely to believe it was the actions of one of the criminal regimes mentioned previously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

They are fed religiously and culturally acceptable food. They are provided religious texts and prayer matts and quiet times for prayer.

Yep, and flashlights for anal raping, snarling guard dogs for intimidation, kicks to the torso and groin for their further edification, all the while locked up with no legal representation or hope of trial. Furthermore, if they are eventually found not guilty, they can still be sent back to prison until our president decides they can be let out.

America the beautiful, huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Should not John McCain come forward and explain to him what torture is in a prison camp that deserves comparison to the worst in history?

If a person can't read and understand the printed page, no amount of explanation will satisfy them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Dick Durbin is a disgusting individual.

If that isn't misplaced anger, I don't know what is.

scaeagles · 06-17-2005, 12:12 PM

To the contrary -

He said that what we were doing to prisoners at Guantanamo sounded like what one would expect from the Nazis or Pol Pot. There is simply no comparison. I believe his intention was clear.

There have certainly been much discussed violations of what is acceptable, such as violations at Abu Ghraib. We choose to prosecute those who do such things. They are the exception rather than the rule. In the previously mentioned regimes, torture was the rule.

He compares things in the statement from the guy in the FBI, which are not in violation the Geneva convention, to the attrocities committed throughout history. This is what I find reprehensible. Saying that the statement conjures up thoughts of what happened then. There is nothing even close to equivalence.

Tref, I am not amazed at our feeding the prisoners, and you know that. It goes beyond bread and water - they are fed better than our own troops. I am not complaining that they are fed. I am merely showing to what extent our government has gone to be culturally and religiously sensitive. But Durbin would liken it to Nazi torture.

These are ununiformed enemy combatants. In wars, such captives are typically shot. I do not excuse beatings, but intimidation by dogs barking is certainly against nothing in the Geneva convention. Nor is sleep deprivation, yelling, screaming, temperature extremes, nor the like.

Continue to presecute those who have violated our standards. And rightly so. But our standards, some described in the FBI statement read by Durbin, are nothing remotely close to the regimes he specifically cited.

Ghoulish Delight · 06-17-2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Continue to presecute those who have violated our standards.

The problem is, the deeper they've delved into this, the higher up the order, or the blind eye (equally as bad), for those violations appears.

SacTown Chronic · 06-17-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

These are ununiformed enemy combatants.

Says who? Where's the evidence? Where are the charges? Sorry, but I need something more than a wink and a nod from the White House before I can support our wholly un-American actions at Guantanamo Bay.

Tref · 06-17-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Tref, I am not amazed at our feeding the prisoners, and you know that. It goes beyond bread and water - they are fed better than our own troops. I am not complaining that they are fed. I am merely showing to what extent our government has gone to be culturally and religiously sensitive. But Durbin would liken it to Nazi torture.

I see your point.

SacTown Chronic · 06-17-2005, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

I notice the silence on these boards about the Downing Street Memo is deafening.

Sounds vaugely familiar. Is this memo something I would have heard about from America's liberal media? Or perhaps from some Bush bashing freedom haters in England?

LSPoorEeyorick · 06-17-2005, 12:47 PM

Leo, I think it's safe to say that we agree on very little in this realm. Unless, like, you enjoy drinking lemonade or you think that kittens are generally cuter than cats or that the Beatles played some good music.

But on things of substance, I guess we'll just about always come down on opposite sides of the issue. Or at least that's how it seems.

I don't care who the prisoner is. I don't care if he is ununiformed or guilty or in the wrong place at the wrong time or Bin Laden himself. Ill treatment of prisoners is disgusting, whether it's legal under Geneva or not.

06-17-2005, 11:03 AM	#1
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Dick Durbin I am surprised that no one has posted about this, so I will. I will provide links to specifics of his statements, but he compared the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo to what Nazis or Pol Pot would do. I find this disgusting and reprehensible. Apparently his words stem from an FBI report of a detainee chained to the floor. Sometimes temperatures in interrogation rooms were cooled to 60 degrees. Or heated over 100. They might be yelled at. They might not get water for a while. Would I want to be treated that way? No. But it is not comparable in any way to starvation or mass executions or death marches or or whatever. None of these things are against the Geneva convention. I hate to say that, because as ununiformed enemy combatants, the Geneva convention does not apply to them. They are fed religiously and culturally acceptable food. They are provided religious texts and prayer matts and quiet times for prayer. Trent Lott was stripped of his leadership position for praising Strom Thurmond. Should not Durbin receive some sort of penalty or censure for his comments? Should not John McCain come forward and explain to him what torture is in a prison camp that deserves comparison to the worst in history? Dick Durbin is a disgusting individual.
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06-17-2005, 11:41 AM	#2
Tref Not Tref Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,188	It is funny what disgusts some people. I have read that many prisoners have not even been charged with a crime, yet. And is it true they live in cages? That is what the newspapers report. What about those that have been beaten to death? Or, violated anally with chemical light sticks? Congress was shown photos of prisoners that had been mutilated. Many, many, more have died during interrogations. That must be some interrogation! What type of camp do you believe those guys would say they were in? If you answered, death camp, then you are correct! You mention that the prisoners are being fed. Well, I suppose that is very nice of us, indeed. Imagine that. We are feeding our prisoners. I think you may be mis-channeling your disgust. I dig where you are coming from, my brother, but you need to stay focused. Durbins words will pass -- that's hyperbole. The brutal torture of prisoners by Americans -- that's reality. __________________ Tref3.0 Listen in aural 3-D to Pop's muzak! (New songs added semi-bi-daily) j & j Did you know that Emas eht yltcaxe is exactly the same spelled backwards?! Last edited by Tref : 06-17-2005 at 11:49 AM. Reason: torture is torture is torture ...
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06-17-2005, 11:47 AM	#3
mousepod You broke your Ramadar! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,635	Yeah yeah yeah. There was a great bit on The Daily Show last night that used the Dick Durbin clip as a take-off point to show how Conservatives get crazy when Liberals use the Hitler reference and then how the Conservatives use the Hitler comparison too. As far as I'm concerned Durbin's an idiot. But so is Santorum. You can watch the clip right here __________________ "Give the public everything you can give them, keep the place as clean as you can keep it, keep it friendly" - Walt Disney
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06-17-2005, 12:12 PM	#5
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	To the contrary - He said that what we were doing to prisoners at Guantanamo sounded like what one would expect from the Nazis or Pol Pot. There is simply no comparison. I believe his intention was clear. There have certainly been much discussed violations of what is acceptable, such as violations at Abu Ghraib. We choose to prosecute those who do such things. They are the exception rather than the rule. In the previously mentioned regimes, torture was the rule. He compares things in the statement from the guy in the FBI, which are not in violation the Geneva convention, to the attrocities committed throughout history. This is what I find reprehensible. Saying that the statement conjures up thoughts of what happened then. There is nothing even close to equivalence. Tref, I am not amazed at our feeding the prisoners, and you know that. It goes beyond bread and water - they are fed better than our own troops. I am not complaining that they are fed. I am merely showing to what extent our government has gone to be culturally and religiously sensitive. But Durbin would liken it to Nazi torture. These are ununiformed enemy combatants. In wars, such captives are typically shot. I do not excuse beatings, but intimidation by dogs barking is certainly against nothing in the Geneva convention. Nor is sleep deprivation, yelling, screaming, temperature extremes, nor the like. Continue to presecute those who have violated our standards. And rightly so. But our standards, some described in the FBI statement read by Durbin, are nothing remotely close to the regimes he specifically cited.
	Submit to Quotes

06-17-2005, 12:47 PM	#10
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	Leo, I think it's safe to say that we agree on very little in this realm. Unless, like, you enjoy drinking lemonade or you think that kittens are generally cuter than cats or that the Beatles played some good music. But on things of substance, I guess we'll just about always come down on opposite sides of the issue. Or at least that's how it seems. I don't care who the prisoner is. I don't care if he is ununiformed or guilty or in the wrong place at the wrong time or Bin Laden himself. Ill treatment of prisoners is disgusting, whether it's legal under Geneva or not.
	Submit to Quotes