Okay, NOW I can talk about it

Kevy Baby · 02-16-2006, 11:22 PM

A cloud over the Kevy/Gus household has been lifted. This has been weighing heavily on us recently.

A couple of months ago, Susan received a Federal Court jury summons. The letter said this was a special summons for a trial that could last up to seven (or more) months. Of course, it did not say much more than that (other than where/when to report).

We are civic (and community) minded people. While we may not relish the thought of spending seven months on a jury, we realize that it is our responsibility as members of the community. On the face, we would not just automatically seek a way out. It's just what we do.

About three weeks ago, she finally went to the Santa Ana (CA) Federal Court. Turns out that for this case, the court had sent out 10,000 jury summons. 214 potential jurors were there that day. They were spread out amongst three court rooms as they listened to the indictments against the four defendants.

It took an hour and 15 minutes just to read the indictments (because there were SO many charges).

Seems the men charged are very bad people. You can read one story I found about them here. These guys are the heads of the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang. THE heads. The Feds are going after them for arranging and approving many murders from inside of their individual prison cells. These guys are already serving life sentences for previous crimes. Now they are getting charged not only with murder, but racketeering, drug crimes, etc.

To be blunt - this is a scary-assed case!

After her first day, when she found out who the defendants were and what the charges were, she was scared to death. She met me for lunch after she got out and it took the whole of our hour together to stop shaking. After that it was major anxiety time. Mostly for her, but for me as well.

I mean, how could one feel safe as a juror deciding the fate of men who had no trouble arranging murders, both inside and outside the prison walls!

As much as we want to do our part, there was no way that Susan was going to sit on that jury. We would have fled the country if there was no other way out (I am serious about this!).

The good news is that she has been excused as of Tuesday. While she did not (and of course would not) lie on the questionaires and during the interview, she certainly made no effort to conceal certain aspects. Of course she wore a dress that allowed her tattoo to be clearly seen (it runs up her right leg from her foot to currently just below her knee). And she made sure to mention that she practices Wicca and often meets with her Coven (I think it was a question about religion).

But it has made me think: how DO they seat a jury for a trial like this? How could anyone feel safe? We figured that probably there were enough people that planned on writing a book to cash in on the experience. Can they really find enough truly objective jurors that wouldn't be too afraid of the consequences to convict people like this (assuming they are guilty)?

And during either the interview or on the questionaire (I can't remember which she said it was), she was asked about the death penalty. While I am rethinking my pro-death penalty stance (thanks to a post by GD not too long ago that appealed to my pragmatic side), how could you NOT (assuming conviction) give these guys the death penalty? They are ALREADY serving life sentences and they've proven that being in prison has not stopped them from commiting their crimes.

I've still got the heebie-jeebies from thinking about this.

Motorboat Cruiser · 02-16-2006, 11:42 PM

Yeah, I can definitely see how the proposition of sitting on that jury would weight heavy on the heart. I'm a civic minded person as well and would have no problem sitting on a jury in most cases. Something like this though? I would most certainly have reservations about. Although, the fact that I'm quite anti-death penalty would probably have gotten me kicked.

I'm glad to hear that you can put this behind you now. I can only imagine the stress it has caused.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 02-16-2006, 11:53 PM

I'm glad you had each other, and were able to get through the anxiety together. That is a frightening case. Probably more exciting to be on that jury than on most others. I never want to do jury duty. It's not a question of duty, but an awareness of my own lack of conviction, the fact that I’m sometimes easily persuaded and that I’m moody, and my moods affect my decision making abilities. I really shouldn’t be allowed on a jury.

wendybeth · 02-17-2006, 12:02 AM

I probably shouldn't be on a jury whilst PMS'ing, that's for sure.

Scary, KB! It's a tough call- you want to do your civic duty, but don't necessarily feel quite like dying for it just yet. Truth be told, Aryan guys don't scare me too much, as we shared space up here in the PNW with them for some time and I think they are just sad, sorry excuses for people. Dangerous, yes, but not quite as scary as that M-something gang. (Name escapes me at the moment). At any rate, I'm relieved for Susan and you, and hope the next call to duty will involve less frightening legal infractions.

Gemini Cricket · 02-17-2006, 04:37 AM

I thought we had prisons in Siberia for people like this. Yikes.

Was she ever in the same room with these turds? I don't know how jury selection works. I don't know if the defendants get to stick around during this time.

I'm glad Susan didn't get chosen. I worry for the ones that do.

The whole thing kind of reminds me of characters from HBO's 'Oz'. Yuck.

Thank you for sharing this story with us.

You know, you guys could write a story about it already. I mean, the safety of any jury member really can't be guaranteed...

Snowflake · 02-17-2006, 05:19 AM

Wow! That is seriously scary!
I have no problems doing my civic duty and serving on a jury (yeah, I grumble), but those cases have always been short, small affairs. Nothing of this magnitude!

Glad Susan has been excused! Peace and safety to you both!

Donna

€uroMeinke · 02-17-2006, 06:53 AM

I've done many a tour of Jury duty, but have never served on a Jury. Somehow I am always thanked an excused. I think t's my insistance to respond with disclaimer statements.

"sure I can can apply the law - as long as the law is just"

"Can I be objective? Of course not, isn't that why you're selecting 11 other jurors to serve with me? I cannot excape my own subjectivity"

LSPoorEeyorick · 02-17-2006, 07:15 AM

Gracious! I'm so glad she's not on there.

Gemini Cricket · 02-17-2006, 07:20 AM

I have never been on a jury. I've been called to show up several times. Each time, even before we get into the courtroom, they see that my father is a retired police sargeant and they did miss me. The last time I went, they said it had something to do with him being in Internal Affairs. But I think it had to do with the particular case at hand.

I've testified as a witness before. That's fun. A woman had passed a forged check to me at a bank when I was a teller. I was suspicious of her, but her ID and signature matched. Come to find out both were fraudulent. I had to show up and identify the woman.

'Is Ms. X here in the room, Brad?'
'Yes, she is.'
'Can you point to Ms. X?'
'Right there.'
There was a collective gasp in the room. (Okay, there was no gasp, but I pictured it in my mind.)

I made the courtroom laugh, though. I thought that was cool. I was the tenth bank clerk they had seen that day and all involved looked pretty tired. After I was sworn in I said, 'You guys all look like you want to be somewhere else.'
Everyone laughed. Including (and especially) Ms. X.
She later confessed and went to jail. She was like 19 or something.

I'd love to sit on a jury. Lots of places will pay your wages for during your duty.

scaeagles · 02-17-2006, 07:21 AM

I would hate to serve on a case where I felt my family could be in danger.

i believe - and I am no lawyer - that juries are under no obligation to rule based on law. Perhaps that's some falsehood I picked up somewhere.

I've never served. My borther in law is a well known police officer in the Phoenix metro area, and when they hear that, they won't allow me to serve on criminal cases. I've never been called for civil duty.

02-16-2006, 11:22 PM	#1
Kevy Baby Chowder Head Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yes Posts: 18,500	Okay, NOW I can talk about it A cloud over the Kevy/Gus household has been lifted. This has been weighing heavily on us recently. A couple of months ago, Susan received a Federal Court jury summons. The letter said this was a special summons for a trial that could last up to seven (or more) months. Of course, it did not say much more than that (other than where/when to report). We are civic (and community) minded people. While we may not relish the thought of spending seven months on a jury, we realize that it is our responsibility as members of the community. On the face, we would not just automatically seek a way out. It's just what we do. About three weeks ago, she finally went to the Santa Ana (CA) Federal Court. Turns out that for this case, the court had sent out 10,000 jury summons. 214 potential jurors were there that day. They were spread out amongst three court rooms as they listened to the indictments against the four defendants. It took an hour and 15 minutes just to read the indictments (because there were SO many charges). Seems the men charged are very bad people. You can read one story I found about them here. These guys are the heads of the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang. THE heads. The Feds are going after them for arranging and approving many murders from inside of their individual prison cells. These guys are already serving life sentences for previous crimes. Now they are getting charged not only with murder, but racketeering, drug crimes, etc. To be blunt - this is a scary-assed case! After her first day, when she found out who the defendants were and what the charges were, she was scared to death. She met me for lunch after she got out and it took the whole of our hour together to stop shaking. After that it was major anxiety time. Mostly for her, but for me as well. I mean, how could one feel safe as a juror deciding the fate of men who had no trouble arranging murders, both inside and outside the prison walls! As much as we want to do our part, there was no way that Susan was going to sit on that jury. We would have fled the country if there was no other way out (I am serious about this!). The good news is that she has been excused as of Tuesday. While she did not (and of course would not) lie on the questionaires and during the interview, she certainly made no effort to conceal certain aspects. Of course she wore a dress that allowed her tattoo to be clearly seen (it runs up her right leg from her foot to currently just below her knee). And she made sure to mention that she practices Wicca and often meets with her Coven (I think it was a question about religion). But it has made me think: how DO they seat a jury for a trial like this? How could anyone feel safe? We figured that probably there were enough people that planned on writing a book to cash in on the experience. Can they really find enough truly objective jurors that wouldn't be too afraid of the consequences to convict people like this (assuming they are guilty)? And during either the interview or on the questionaire (I can't remember which she said it was), she was asked about the death penalty. While I am rethinking my pro-death penalty stance (thanks to a post by GD not too long ago that appealed to my pragmatic side), how could you NOT (assuming conviction) give these guys the death penalty? They are ALREADY serving life sentences and they've proven that being in prison has not stopped them from commiting their crimes. I've still got the heebie-jeebies from thinking about this. __________________ The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot verify their validity. - Abraham Lincoln
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02-16-2006, 11:42 PM	#2
Motorboat Cruiser Cruiser of Motorboats Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 3,665	Yeah, I can definitely see how the proposition of sitting on that jury would weight heavy on the heart. I'm a civic minded person as well and would have no problem sitting on a jury in most cases. Something like this though? I would most certainly have reservations about. Although, the fact that I'm quite anti-death penalty would probably have gotten me kicked. I'm glad to hear that you can put this behind you now. I can only imagine the stress it has caused. Last edited by Motorboat Cruiser : 02-17-2006 at 12:18 AM.
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02-16-2006, 11:53 PM	#3
Eliza Hodgkins 1812 Sputnik Sweetheart Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Long Beach Posts: 2,685	I'm glad you had each other, and were able to get through the anxiety together. That is a frightening case. Probably more exciting to be on that jury than on most others. I never want to do jury duty. It's not a question of duty, but an awareness of my own lack of conviction, the fact that I’m sometimes easily persuaded and that I’m moody, and my moods affect my decision making abilities. I really shouldn’t be allowed on a jury.
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02-17-2006, 12:02 AM	#4
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	I probably shouldn't be on a jury whilst PMS'ing, that's for sure. Scary, KB! It's a tough call- you want to do your civic duty, but don't necessarily feel quite like dying for it just yet. Truth be told, Aryan guys don't scare me too much, as we shared space up here in the PNW with them for some time and I think they are just sad, sorry excuses for people. Dangerous, yes, but not quite as scary as that M-something gang. (Name escapes me at the moment). At any rate, I'm relieved for Susan and you, and hope the next call to duty will involve less frightening legal infractions. __________________
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02-17-2006, 04:37 AM	#5
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	I thought we had prisons in Siberia for people like this. Yikes. Was she ever in the same room with these turds? I don't know how jury selection works. I don't know if the defendants get to stick around during this time. I'm glad Susan didn't get chosen. I worry for the ones that do. The whole thing kind of reminds me of characters from HBO's 'Oz'. Yuck. Thank you for sharing this story with us. You know, you guys could write a story about it already. I mean, the safety of any jury member really can't be guaranteed...
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02-17-2006, 05:19 AM	#6
Snowflake lost in the fog Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 7,831	Wow! That is seriously scary! I have no problems doing my civic duty and serving on a jury (yeah, I grumble), but those cases have always been short, small affairs. Nothing of this magnitude! Glad Susan has been excused! Peace and safety to you both! Donna __________________ Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. - Oscar Wilde
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02-17-2006, 06:53 AM	#7
€uroMeinke L'Hédoniste Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A.S.C.O.T. Posts: 8,671	I've done many a tour of Jury duty, but have never served on a Jury. Somehow I am always thanked an excused. I think t's my insistance to respond with disclaimer statements. "sure I can can apply the law - as long as the law is just" "Can I be objective? Of course not, isn't that why you're selecting 11 other jurors to serve with me? I cannot excape my own subjectivity" __________________ I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance. Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-17-2006, 07:15 AM	#8
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	Gracious! I'm so glad she's not on there.
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02-17-2006, 07:20 AM	#9
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	I have never been on a jury. I've been called to show up several times. Each time, even before we get into the courtroom, they see that my father is a retired police sargeant and they did miss me. The last time I went, they said it had something to do with him being in Internal Affairs. But I think it had to do with the particular case at hand. I've testified as a witness before. That's fun. A woman had passed a forged check to me at a bank when I was a teller. I was suspicious of her, but her ID and signature matched. Come to find out both were fraudulent. I had to show up and identify the woman. 'Is Ms. X here in the room, Brad?' 'Yes, she is.' 'Can you point to Ms. X?' 'Right there.' There was a collective gasp in the room. (Okay, there was no gasp, but I pictured it in my mind.) I made the courtroom laugh, though. I thought that was cool. I was the tenth bank clerk they had seen that day and all involved looked pretty tired. After I was sworn in I said, 'You guys all look like you want to be somewhere else.' Everyone laughed. Including (and especially) Ms. X. She later confessed and went to jail. She was like 19 or something. I'd love to sit on a jury. Lots of places will pay your wages for during your duty.
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02-17-2006, 07:21 AM	#10
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I would hate to serve on a case where I felt my family could be in danger. i believe - and I am no lawyer - that juries are under no obligation to rule based on law. Perhaps that's some falsehood I picked up somewhere. I've never served. My borther in law is a well known police officer in the Phoenix metro area, and when they hear that, they won't allow me to serve on criminal cases. I've never been called for civil duty.
	Submit to Quotes