Why can't I receive all local HD stations?

Ghoulish Delight · 12-29-2007, 02:06 PM

Bloody hell, what ever happened to standardization?!

Okay, so I've just learned that some HD stations (namely, the ones that are broadcasting over the air anyway) can be available over a standard digital cable line without need of either a cable box or an HD package from the cable company as long as the TV has a QAM tuner, which ours does. So I went ahead and tried it and voila, HD stations, no antenna needed! Hooray!

But we're not getting all the stations I might have expected. We get CBS, NBC, KTLA, KCET, and KOCE. What happened to ABC, KCAL, and Fox? I get them via the antenna, why not through cable? The TV auto-scan doesn't pick up the HD versions of those stations, and it won't manually tune to them (11.1, or 9.1 or whatever). Is there something I can adjust to get them, or does that mean that Time Warner, for whatever reason is refusing to put those stations unencrypted on the line, forcing me to pay for HD service to get them? Based on their package listings, there doesn't seem to be any difference between those and the ones I'm receiving, but I don't think their package listings reflect these "clear QAM" signals. It's probably something they don't want to advertise and would rather I pay for HD service.

I've sent the question to Time Warner. God knows if they'll ever respond, or if it will be anything more than, "Our HD offerings over basic digital service are very limited, can we interest you in an HD package with set top box?"

And the first person who suggests I switch to DirectTV or Dish or any other service will suffer. Miserably. Woe to the 2nd person...

madmonkeygirl · 12-29-2007, 02:10 PM

I am not sure but i think don't quote me on this or hold me to it but if memory serves me correct that ABC is now HD and if you have Time Warner is an extra charge to get that channel in HD stupid i know....but i'm not 100% sure it sucks. There should be one charge for all channels but it's cable companies i swear...Good luck in waiting and getting an answer....and no Direct TV or what not sucks too...would never want you to go that route nor would i....

Alex · 12-29-2007, 03:01 PM

You checked the complete spectrum of the auto-scan?

When I first did this, ABC standard/HD was 7 and 7-1. Fox was 2/2-1. CBS was 5/5-1. NBC was 3/116-4. Took me quite a while to find the NBC HD spot. Fortunately they since reordered and NBC is at a more reasonable channel (3 and 11-1; 11 is the VHF broadcast station but NBC is 3 on cable).

If you're sure you checked everything, then I don't know. I thought they were obligated to leave the broadcast channels unscrambled. You might see if you can find any message boards or web sites that talk about these stations in your area.

Comcast doesn't charge extra for HD channels (if that channel is in the package you already have), they just charge extra for the HD converter box. So, rather than pay that I give up the ESPN HD channels, HD Discovery, etc., and am happy enough with the HD broadcast networks (for some reason there are also about 16 different PBS stations hidden in the subchannels - though all aren't HD, plus one movie channel -- Flix -- that I don't get in my normal Comcast line-up. Flix shows really bad movies).

Ghoulish Delight · 12-29-2007, 03:07 PM

My TV only has an auto-scan option, I can't specify anything other than the signal tuning standard to use (STD, HRC, or IRC). It picked up the others no problem (CBS is 2.1, NBC is 4.1, KCET is 25.1, etc.). When I use the over the air antenna, Fox HD is channel 11.1. On cable, all I have is channel 11.

I've been doing some searching and it's a little murky. It MAY be a matter of the local fox affiliate (or whomever owns the local fox affiliate) insisting on a high monthly fee from Time Warner to carry the HD broadcast. If so, I'm pretty much out of luck. Though from what I can gather, if that were the case they wouldn't even carry it as part of their for-pay HD packages, and it's definitely listed there.

Ghoulish Delight · 12-29-2007, 03:20 PM

Oh hey, I found ABC. It's at 104.85. Interesting...

ETA: Eureka! 104.84 is Fox HD. Thanks for prompting me to walk through all the stations, Alex.

Ghoulish Delight · 12-29-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Comcast doesn't charge extra for HD channels (if that channel is in the package you already have), they just charge extra for the HD converter box.

Hmm, so it looks like I can get the HD box for the same prices as the non-HD box that's sitting on a shelf in my closet. Still wouldn't be able to record anything in HD (not going to pay $10/month more for HD DVR when I already have a TiVo), but I'm suddenly thinking it might be worth it to get the HD box if it's not going to cost me anything more to have 20 or so HD channels. Although they don't have FSN in HD, which kinda sucks since Dodger games would be what I'd be most interested in watching.

Kevy Baby · 12-29-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

And the first person who suggests I switch to DirectTV or Dish or any other service will suffer. Miserably. Woe to the 2nd person...

How come?

Ghoulish Delight · 12-29-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

How come?

Because it's not the question I asked. I have my reasons for being on cable and it bugs me when one asks for specific advice about something and the only answer someone bothers to give is, "Throw it all out and go with this option which I think is objectively better."

Kevy Baby · 12-29-2007, 04:56 PM

Ghoulish Delight · 12-29-2007, 04:59 PM

errr, subjectively

12-29-2007, 02:06 PM	#1
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	Why can't I receive all local HD stations? Bloody hell, what ever happened to standardization?! Okay, so I've just learned that some HD stations (namely, the ones that are broadcasting over the air anyway) can be available over a standard digital cable line without need of either a cable box or an HD package from the cable company as long as the TV has a QAM tuner, which ours does. So I went ahead and tried it and voila, HD stations, no antenna needed! Hooray! But we're not getting all the stations I might have expected. We get CBS, NBC, KTLA, KCET, and KOCE. What happened to ABC, KCAL, and Fox? I get them via the antenna, why not through cable? The TV auto-scan doesn't pick up the HD versions of those stations, and it won't manually tune to them (11.1, or 9.1 or whatever). Is there something I can adjust to get them, or does that mean that Time Warner, for whatever reason is refusing to put those stations unencrypted on the line, forcing me to pay for HD service to get them? Based on their package listings, there doesn't seem to be any difference between those and the ones I'm receiving, but I don't think their package listings reflect these "clear QAM" signals. It's probably something they don't want to advertise and would rather I pay for HD service. I've sent the question to Time Warner. God knows if they'll ever respond, or if it will be anything more than, "Our HD offerings over basic digital service are very limited, can we interest you in an HD package with set top box?" And the first person who suggests I switch to DirectTV or Dish or any other service will suffer. Miserably. Woe to the 2nd person... __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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12-29-2007, 02:10 PM	#2
madmonkeygirl Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 764	Why can't I receive all local HD stations? I am not sure but i think don't quote me on this or hold me to it but if memory serves me correct that ABC is now HD and if you have Time Warner is an extra charge to get that channel in HD stupid i know....but i'm not 100% sure it sucks. There should be one charge for all channels but it's cable companies i swear...Good luck in waiting and getting an answer....and no Direct TV or what not sucks too...would never want you to go that route nor would i....
	Submit to Quotes

12-29-2007, 03:01 PM	#3
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	You checked the complete spectrum of the auto-scan? When I first did this, ABC standard/HD was 7 and 7-1. Fox was 2/2-1. CBS was 5/5-1. NBC was 3/116-4. Took me quite a while to find the NBC HD spot. Fortunately they since reordered and NBC is at a more reasonable channel (3 and 11-1; 11 is the VHF broadcast station but NBC is 3 on cable). If you're sure you checked everything, then I don't know. I thought they were obligated to leave the broadcast channels unscrambled. You might see if you can find any message boards or web sites that talk about these stations in your area. Comcast doesn't charge extra for HD channels (if that channel is in the package you already have), they just charge extra for the HD converter box. So, rather than pay that I give up the ESPN HD channels, HD Discovery, etc., and am happy enough with the HD broadcast networks (for some reason there are also about 16 different PBS stations hidden in the subchannels - though all aren't HD, plus one movie channel -- Flix -- that I don't get in my normal Comcast line-up. Flix shows really bad movies).
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12-29-2007, 03:07 PM	#4
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	My TV only has an auto-scan option, I can't specify anything other than the signal tuning standard to use (STD, HRC, or IRC). It picked up the others no problem (CBS is 2.1, NBC is 4.1, KCET is 25.1, etc.). When I use the over the air antenna, Fox HD is channel 11.1. On cable, all I have is channel 11. I've been doing some searching and it's a little murky. It MAY be a matter of the local fox affiliate (or whomever owns the local fox affiliate) insisting on a high monthly fee from Time Warner to carry the HD broadcast. If so, I'm pretty much out of luck. Though from what I can gather, if that were the case they wouldn't even carry it as part of their for-pay HD packages, and it's definitely listed there. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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12-29-2007, 03:20 PM	#5
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	Oh hey, I found ABC. It's at 104.85. Interesting... ETA: Eureka! 104.84 is Fox HD. Thanks for prompting me to walk through all the stations, Alex. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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12-29-2007, 04:56 PM	#9
Kevy Baby Chowder Head Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yes Posts: 18,500	K __________________ The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot verify their validity. - Abraham Lincoln
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12-29-2007, 04:59 PM	#10
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	errr, subjectively __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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