Anthrax

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I don't know how closely anyone has been following the developments in this case, but I have. Now, I don't think I have ever bought into any sort of conspiracy theory in my entire life. I think that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy. I think we went to the moon. I don't think that our government toppled the twin towers or destroyed the Pentagon. And yet, the more I learn about the recent events in the Anthrax investigation, the less I am believing the official story.

First, there is the reaction from co-workers, who don't believe that he is the guy.

"The labs were not equipped, for instance, with a lot of the equipment that would have been required to supposedly dry this material down and create the highly refined state that it was in," said Adamovicz, who worked with Ivins for 12 years.


Adamovicz also said Ivins showed no signs of being homicidal or suicidal, including when he saw him just three weeks ago.


"He seemed ... quite conversant, and he was his old self," Adamovicz said of his former colleague.

Then there is the fact that the only negative opinions that have been reported of this guy are from a social worker, who seems to have a questionable past.

There is also the problem that the DNA tests that were supposedly used to trace the strain, not to Ivins, but just to his laboratory, should have been able to have easily been performed 6 years ago, but were just done recently. Also, although Ivins was a prime suspect for at least a year, his security clearance was only yanked a couple of weeks ago. Oh, and let's not forget that the last suspect successfully sued the government for being falsely accused. Richard Jewell, anyone?

And on top of all of this are the possible motives of the Bush administration who were desperately trying to pin this on Al Qaida and/or Iraq. Plenty of questions there as well, such as why did ABC News receive information from 4 separate sources in 2001 that the strain found had to have come from Iraq. Who were those sources exactly? Today's NY Daily News reports the following:

After the Oct. 5, 2001, death from anthrax exposure of Sun photo editor Robert Stevens, Mueller was “beaten up” during President Bush’s morning intelligence briefings for not producing proof the killer spores were the handiwork of terrorist mastermind Osama Bin Laden, according to a former aide.

“They really wanted to blame somebody in the Middle East,” the retired senior FBI official told The News.

-snip-

On October 15, 2001, President Bush said, “There may be some possible link” to Bin Laden, adding, “I wouldn’t put it past him.” Vice President Cheney also said Bin Laden’s henchmen were trained “how to deploy and use these kinds of substances, so you start to piece it all together.”

By the time Bush and Cheney were making those statements, they should have been aware that this particular strain was produced in the United States.

Perhaps it is just me, but I find this whole thing very suspicious. There is a very interesting article over at Slate, but they are far from the only ones that are sharing my suspicion.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

We think only other gov'ts do this stuff. We are wrong.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

I don't know how closely anyone has been following the developments in this case, but I have.

Yes, I have heard about this... Daily, extensively, excessively... (Did I mention I live in Maryland?) So please, let me comment...

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

First, there is the reaction from co-workers, who don't believe that he is the guy.

Friends/co-workers hardly ever believe the guy they knew could have done whatever it was...

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Then there is the fact that the only negative opinions that have been reported of this guy are from a social worker, who seems to have a questionable past.

It was a group session where he recited detailed fantasies about getting guns and killing people. So it's not just the word of this one social worker. Also people go see a physciatrist , he was "assigned" to see a social worker. Some type of mental disorder must have been present for that to happen. In fact we are hearing from a number of sources in his past about "instability" issues.

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

There is also the problem that the DNA tests that were supposedly used to trace the strain, not to Ivins, but just to his laboratory, should have been able to have easily been performed 6 years ago, but were just done recently.

From Wikipedia:
DNA sequencing of the anthrax taken from Robert Stevens (the first victim) was conducted at The Institute for Genomic Research beginning in December 2001. Sequencing was finished within a month and the analysis was published in the journal Science in early 2002.

Those test showed the Anthrax came from Fort Detrick. They might have re-run the test recently but they did not wait 6 years.

Also toss in the fact that Ivins holds a patent on a synthetic vaccine for Anthrax from which he stood to make heavy profits if the government suddenly needed a large supply. So for me the only real question is what took so long?

[Gemini Cricket]

An intended recipient of one of the anthrax-laced letters sent in 2001's anthrax scare said Monday he was "very skeptical" of the government's investigation. Former Sen. Tom Daschle, who was Senate majority leader at the time, said he is suspicious of the case against researcher Bruce Ivins because of the government "bungling" of Steven Hatfill's case.
Hatfill, who was named by the Justice Department as a "person of interest" in 2002, was never charged and later sued the department. They reached a multimillion dollar settlement in June.

Source

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

We think only other gov'ts do this stuff. We are wrong.

I believe CP is 100% right.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

I don't know how closely anyone has been following the developments in this case, but I have. Now, I don't think I have ever bought into any sort of conspiracy theory in my entire life. I think that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy. I think we went to the moon. I don't think that our government toppled the twin towers or destroyed the Pentagon. And yet, the more I learn about the recent events in the Anthrax investigation, the less I am believing the official story.

But when I mention Vince Foster......

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

But when I mention Vince Foster......

I'm with you on that one. He was placed in the park after he was dead.....

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Friends/co-workers hardly ever believe the guy they knew could have done whatever it was...

Do they commonly have the expertise necessary to state that the accused had no access to the equipment necessary to commit the crime?

It was a group session where he recited detailed fantasies about getting guns and killing people. So it's not just the word of this one social worker. Also people go see a physciatrist , he was "assigned" to see a social worker. Some type of mental disorder must have been present for that to happen. In fact we are hearing from a number of sources in his past about "instability" issues.

Do you have any cites to back this up? I've heard that he recently suffered from depression, which might better explain his suicide, but doesn't seem to suggest that there were any problems with his mental condition at the time the crime occurred.

From Wikipedia:
DNA sequencing of the anthrax taken from Robert Stevens (the first victim) was conducted at The Institute for Genomic Research beginning in December 2001. Sequencing was finished within a month and the analysis was published in the journal Science in early 2002.

Those test showed the Anthrax came from Fort Detrick. They might have re-run the test recently but they did not wait 6 years.

So, then why was his security clearance allowed until July 10th. If they knew that far back of where this came from, I find that pretty surprising.

Also toss in the fact that Ivins holds a patent on a synthetic vaccine for Anthrax from which he stood to make heavy profits if the government suddenly needed a large supply. So for me the only real question is what took so long?

Doesn't seem that the actions he was going to be charged with had the ability to create the type of demand that you suggest.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

But when I mention Vince Foster......

Open a thread and state your case then.

[Alex]

Maybe I'm missing something, but assuming that there is a government conspiracy here, what are you saying it is?

I don't see how the Bush administration trying to pin it on Al Qaeda would lead to them ultimately pinning it on one of our people. And if they really did want to pin it on Al Qaeda it doesn't seem to me that they certainly should have been able to do a better job of it than open ended statements about "the dots start to add up."

So I'm curious what conspiracy you are seeing and what the goal of it was that it lead to framing this guy?