Ebonics being pushed - idiot educators

[scaeagles]

http://www.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,...969790,00.html

These "sociologists" are doing these students a huge disservice.

" 'Ebonics is a different language, it's not slang as many believe,' Texeira said. "For many of these students Ebonics is their language, and it should be considered a foreign language. These students should be taught like other students who speak a foreign language.' "

That's crap. One more reason why vouchers are needed for those who want to pull their children out of these so-called schools.

[Name]

While I agree that the ebonics thing is crap, the whole story isn't about that, and sounds like a good program.

Originally Posted by article

Len Cooper, who is coordinating the pilot program at the two city schools, said San Bernardino district officials do not plan to incorporate Ebonics into the program.

"Because Ebonics can have a negative stigma, we're not focusing on that,' Cooper said. "We are affirming and recognizing Ebonics through supplemental reading books (for students).'

Beginning in the 2005-06 school year, teachers will receive training on black culture and customs. District curriculum will now include information on the historical, cultural and social impact of blacks in society. Although the program is aimed at black students, other students can choose to participate.

That hardly sounds like a horrible thing for a school to do, actually sounds quite interesting, and I wouldn't mind taking a few of the courses, if I were still in high school.

[Prudence]

First of all, I disagree with the classification of Ebonics as a different language. It's been a few years since I took a linguistics course, but at that time Ebonics was classified as a dialect. The classification of a language pattern as dialect or language is largely political.

This brings me to a quandry -- on the one hand, it hardly seems reasonable to hold special classes in a dialect. Imagine a Maine dialect immersion course! On the other hand, no one tells students they shouldn't communicate in their southern dialect at school.

Still, with a dialect there's an assumption that one is capable of communicating in and understanding "standard" Language X. What comes to mind at the moment are UK dialects. Although I think this might have changed, at least at one time you could be from Northumbria, but if you want to be in broadcasting you'd better learn BBC English.

Now, if it's meant to be strictly supplemental -- such as reading some literary texts in dialect as part of a cultural enrichment program -- then I'd have no trouble with it, as long as it didn't dominate the curriculum. For example, I'm sure it was "instructive" for me to have read Faulkner in high school (painful though it was), but that was as part of a broad sampling of US literature. If it had been all Faulkner, all the time, I can't imagine that would have been helpful.

I would be curious to know the current state of linguistic affairs in the UK. In the USA, I'm curious to know how Creole is accommodated (or not), as that's the nearest analogue I can think of.

[scaeagles]

You see, I believe ebonics should have a negative stigma. Does the business community take ebonics seriously? Can you write a college entrance exam in ebonics?

As Bill Cosby so eloquently stated -
And then: "They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't?' 'Where you is?' . . . And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. . . . Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. . . . You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

[TigerLily]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

You see, I believe ebonics should have a negative stigma. Does the business community take ebonics seriously? Can you write a college entrance exam in ebonics?

me too...it's not a dialict it's improper english....

[Prudence]

According to linguistic theory, it is a dialect. And, also according to linguistic theory, dialects are neither good nor bad, acceptible or unacceptible, negative or positive.

Does that mean that potential employers are obligated to accept Ebonics, Creole, or any other dialect as appropriate and sanctioned workplace language? I would say no. If I had a potential employee in front of me who could only speak Ebonics and could not be understood by "standard" English speakers, then I would have no trouble turning them down, just like I would turn down someone who could only speak Cantonese. On the other hand, if they want to speak Ebonics/Cantonese at home, with friends, etc., I don't see the problem.

In a perverse way, I'd consider supporting treating it as a separate "language" or dialect in schools if only to enforce that it *IS* different. *THIS* is Ebonics and *THIS* isn't. *HERE* this is acceptible speech. *THERE* you are expected to speak standard English.

[Name]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Does the business community take ebonics seriously

In a sense, I would say the answer is yes, especially when marketing to the african american communities where ebonics is prolific.

[Drince88]

Originally Posted by Name

In a sense, I would say the answer is yes, especially when marketing to the african american communities where ebonics is prolific.

Even so, I'm not sure how seriously they'd take a job applicant who communicated during their interview with ebonics.

[Prudence]

Isn't that an overlapping issue of marketing to the perceived community? If I was marketing a product in Appalachia, and I wanted to project a feeling that my business/product was part of the community (not from "outside"), I'd make sure my adverts included people speaking in the regional dialect.

Conversely, if I was a business owner in Appalachia, marketing to the rest of the country, I'd want my customer service reps to sound mainstream.

(And, were I an Appalachian parent, I might expect my schools to include as part of their history and literature programs selections from Appalachain history and literature, including works that reflected the dialect associated with the region, as a way of imparting the cultural history and values.

Incidentally, I would probably have gotten much more out of a class in Ebonics than I did from the Washington State History class that was required for graduation. Seriously. If you moved here your senior year, you had to take it to graduate. (we all took it in 7th grade.) Do I remember anything from that class? ANYTHING? Not one factoid. Given the increased mobility of our society, does it even make sense to require a state history class? And yet, no one bats an eye over that wasted chunk of time.)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Would a business in America accept someone who spoke only Russian and not English? Unlikely. Does that mean Russian isn't a language, just improper English?