Are you racist?

[The Shadoe]

Frequently, Republicans are labeled as racists because they don't support such programs as Affirmative Action. I, myself, am one of those Republicans who don't support Affirmative Action. And of course, this does not make me a racist.
Growing up playing hoops as the sole white kid on my team in Five Points Denver, I experienced first-hand the problems that face our poorest communities. The public education system has failed the black American. And affirmative action has only compounded the problem by telling the black American that he or she is not as intelligent or capable as the white American and therefore needs a helping hand to be equal. That is racism.

Source

I am taking an African-American Literature class right now, and I find it very interesting hearing the perspectives of my very liberal (and pro-affirmative action) black professor and my political science professor who is a hard-core black Republican. It's amazing how different they are, especially when it comes down to racial issues.

According to the Lit teacher, I am enjoying a hidden white supremacy every time I walk into a department store, (especially my favorite store, Marshall Field's). My poli sci professor says that if the police were targetting black people he wouldn't ever drive anywhere.

Just curious... we all like to think that we are beyond the race issue, but deep at heart, are we?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by The Shadoe

My poli sci professor says that if the police were targetting black people he wouldn't ever drive anywhere.

Ask your professor when the last time he drove through Compton in his professor-salary car was. Now, I'm not saying the cops don't have good reason to racially profile in an area like that (nor am I saying they do). All I'm saying is that one black professor in St. Paul Minnesota who's never been harassed hardly disproves anything. Not exactly a representative sampling.

As for affirmative action "telling the black American that he or she is not as intelligent or capable as the white American and therefore needs a helping hand to be equal," that's one way to spin it. The other way is to say that the concentration of minority children in poor, underfunded schools and living conditions unsuited to learning mean that relying purely on comparing test scores and grades as college entrance criteria puts them at an instant disadvantage.

[Alex]

I think affirmative action as a government policy is a horrible thing. I think affirmative action as a private industry policy is a very good thing.

Unfortunately, the latter without the former would in many ways be illegal.

But I also think that employers should have the right to not hire based on religion, ethnicity, and race if that is there preference (if I was aware of it, I would refuse my business; but I think they have the right to decide they don't want my business) so I don't think anybody takes my opinions seriously on this issue.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I personally don't know that I find affirmative action a particularly good solution to the problem. But neither do I find that there isn't a problem that needs a solution.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Alex, I tend to agree with you. In a perfect world, people should be able to do business with whomever they want. I used to be fully in that camp, including "I should be able to sell a home to whomever I want" and "I should be able to hire whomever I want". And like you said, such practices should be open so that I can take my business away from racist sellers/buyers.

But the truth is that without Big Brother looking over the shoulders of the prejudiced idiots of this country, things don't change. I look at the pictures of people screaming and trying to attack Ruby Bridges, only 40 years ago, and I shudder. Those people were not going to change unless Big Brother forced them to.

I HATE affirmative action, and I'd love to see it go away, but that's because I live in liberal Southern California. Outside of my bubble there are still racist bastards that will not give people of other races a chance. I don't know what to do about it though. Affirmative action is a fcked up solution, the same way many of our "solutions" suck.

As for profiling....jeez, what a can of worms that is.

[Prudence]

I'm of mixed feelings. On the one hand, I dislike every sitting in on every faculty search while they try to decide if applicants are sufficiently ethnic based on their names. Why? Because every time we submit grant applications to certain *federal* agencies they require us to document our attempts to hire "diverse" faculty, how many applied, how many were interviewed, and how many were hired.

It's doubly frustrating in this particular work environment, because in nursing men *are* a minority. Male nursing students regularly complain that there's "no one who looks like them" on the faculty. But we get dinged for every man we hire because we're supposed to be hiring women.

At the same time, I still get irritated when I think about the time a potential employer called to tell me that they just didn't feel comfortable hiring me because the job involved a lot of computer use and therefore they really wanted to find a man to do the job because men are usually better with computers.

So, while most of my experiences are gender and not race based, it has given me some insight into the pros and cons of affirmative action and similar policies.

I suppose I think it would be healthier for all if we admitted we all have biases in some form or another, and then worked out how to prevent those biases from playing a role in our professional lives.

For example: hire/promote/fire/demote whomever you want, but you'd best document your actions and they'd best support your actions. If you're all green cats and out of 20 applicants you hire the one green cat because they have twice the experience of the 19 red dogs, I wouldn't see a problem. If you hire the green cat and that green cat has half the experience of the 19 red dogs, I get suspicious.

(for the record, in my personal case it was a job as a state employee in a tax payer-funded position. as a tax payer, I want them to hire the most qualified person, not the person the feel most "comfortable" with. fvck comfortable and get the job done already.)

I'm totally blathering again. Sorry.

[MickeyLumbo]

Originally Posted by Prudence

I still get irritated when I think about the time a potential employer called to tell me that they just didn't feel comfortable hiring me because the job involved a lot of computer use and therefore they really wanted to find a man to do the job because men are usually better with computers.

that is outrageous. damn. how long ago was this? i hope you sued his ignorant azz. unbelievable. i guess it would tough to sue if you weren't prepared to record the brief phone conversation. the bastard would have been smart enough to deny saying it while testifying.

so sorry you experienced this, Prudence.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by MickeyLumbo

that is outrageous.

Totally. I'm a man and I'm horrid with computers. But I do love my Commodore 64.

[€uroMeinke]

I think the concept behind affirmative action is a good one - that is to make sure that in your recruiting/outreach/bidding, you look to a broader more diverse pool of candidates rather than narrowly focus on one community (that has no basis on the thing you're recruiting for)

However, I think the attempt to montior and measure these programs often has disasterous effects for the programs themselves - you get what you measure.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

However, I think the attempt to montior and measure these programs often has disasterous effects for the programs themselves - you get what you measure.

I've always thought it was funny when people who are pro affirmative action people say that they aren't looking for quotas, they only want to measure your progress in diversity by checking how many of each race and/or gender you have hired.