Dick Durbin

scaeagles · 06-17-2005, 11:03 AM

I am surprised that no one has posted about this, so I will. I will provide links to specifics of his statements, but he compared the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo to what Nazis or Pol Pot would do.

I find this disgusting and reprehensible.

Apparently his words stem from an FBI report of a detainee chained to the floor. Sometimes temperatures in interrogation rooms were cooled to 60 degrees. Or heated over 100. They might be yelled at. They might not get water for a while. Would I want to be treated that way? No. But it is not comparable in any way to starvation or mass executions or death marches or or whatever.

None of these things are against the Geneva convention. I hate to say that, because as ununiformed enemy combatants, the Geneva convention does not apply to them.

They are fed religiously and culturally acceptable food. They are provided religious texts and prayer matts and quiet times for prayer.

Trent Lott was stripped of his leadership position for praising Strom Thurmond. Should not Durbin receive some sort of penalty or censure for his comments? Should not John McCain come forward and explain to him what torture is in a prison camp that deserves comparison to the worst in history?

Dick Durbin is a disgusting individual.

Tref · 06-17-2005, 11:41 AM

It is funny what disgusts some people. I have read that many prisoners have not even been charged with a crime, yet. And is it true they live in cages? That is what the newspapers report.

What about those that have been beaten to death? Or, violated anally with chemical light sticks? Congress was shown photos of prisoners that had been mutilated. Many, many, more have died during interrogations. That must be some interrogation! What type of camp do you believe those guys would say they were in? If you answered, death camp, then you are correct!

You mention that the prisoners are being fed. Well, I suppose that is very nice of us, indeed. Imagine that. We are feeding our prisoners.

I think you may be mis-channeling your disgust. I dig where you are coming from, my brother, but you need to stay focused. Durbins words will pass -- that's hyperbole. The brutal torture of prisoners by Americans -- that's reality.

mousepod · 06-17-2005, 11:47 AM

Yeah yeah yeah.

There was a great bit on The Daily Show last night that used the Dick Durbin clip as a take-off point to show how Conservatives get crazy when Liberals use the Hitler reference and then how the Conservatives use the Hitler comparison too. As far as I'm concerned Durbin's an idiot. But so is Santorum.

You can watch the clip right here

Scrooge McSam · 06-17-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I am surprised that no one has posted about this, so I will.

Surprised? Why, exactly? I notice the silence on these boards about the Downing Street Memo is deafening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I will provide links to specifics of his statements, but he compared the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo to what Nazis or Pol Pot would do.

This is not true. Many would call it an outright lie, but as I strive to maintain respect for those with whom I disagree, I will not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I find this disgusting and reprehensible.

Parrotting right wing distortions is what I call disgusting and reprehensible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Would I want to be treated that way? No. But it is not comparable in any way to starvation or mass executions or death marches or or whatever.

This, folks, is how the twisting of the truth begins. Mr. Durbin did NOT say that what the US is accused of is in any way equivalent to the crimes of the Nazis, Pol Pot, etc. What he did say is that if the average citizen were to see a catalog of the crimes reported to have taken place in these prisons, they would find it hard to believe that the America they know could be responsible. He said they would be more likely to believe it was the actions of one of the criminal regimes mentioned previously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

They are fed religiously and culturally acceptable food. They are provided religious texts and prayer matts and quiet times for prayer.

Yep, and flashlights for anal raping, snarling guard dogs for intimidation, kicks to the torso and groin for their further edification, all the while locked up with no legal representation or hope of trial. Furthermore, if they are eventually found not guilty, they can still be sent back to prison until our president decides they can be let out.

America the beautiful, huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Should not John McCain come forward and explain to him what torture is in a prison camp that deserves comparison to the worst in history?

If a person can't read and understand the printed page, no amount of explanation will satisfy them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Dick Durbin is a disgusting individual.

If that isn't misplaced anger, I don't know what is.

SacTown Chronic · 06-17-2005, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

I notice the silence on these boards about the Downing Street Memo is deafening.

Sounds vaugely familiar. Is this memo something I would have heard about from America's liberal media? Or perhaps from some Bush bashing freedom haters in England?

scaeagles · 06-17-2005, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

all the while locked up with no legal representation or hope of trial. Furthermore, if they are eventually found not guilty, they can still be sent back to prison until our president decides they can be let out.

While I take issue with some things in your post (such as the clever way you called me a liar but said you wouldn't do so out of respect

), I will address just this.

They have no right to legal representation or hope of a trial. They are not being held as criminals, but as enemy combatants. This explains it far better than I could

http://www.disam.dsca.mil/itm/IMSO/F...nDetainees.pdf

SacTown Chronic · 06-17-2005, 05:30 PM

Nevermind.

Scrooge McSam · 06-17-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

<snip> the clever way you called me a liar but said you wouldn't do so out of respect

I thought you'd enjoy that.

But seriously, our corporate media has been trumpeting that exact same take all day long. "Durbin sez our leaders and military are like nazis". It's bull****. I explained why above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

They have no right to legal representation or hope of a trial. They are not being held as criminals, but as enemy combatants. This explains it far better than I could

http://www.disam.dsca.mil/itm/IMSO/F...nDetainees.pdf

My, that's a pretty document. No typos. Straight margins. A lot of work obviously went into it's production. Perhaps we should put as much work into getting this administration to actually abide by it. Or did I miss the part where it say it's A-OK to torture enemy combatants?

And as an aside, may I just say how offensive it is to me and many more like me to see the memory of 9/11 whored as it is in this document to support our illegal actions in Iraq.

scaeagles · 06-18-2005, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

And as an aside, may I just say how offensive it is to me and many more like me to see the memory of 9/11 whored as it is in this document to support our illegal actions in Iraq.

Now, some might say calling our our actions in Iraq illegal is a lie, but I won't out of respect for those with whom I disagree.

Very simple, and I've stated it over and over - an invasion of Iraq was completed justified and completely legal the first time Iraq violated the cease fire from Gulf War I.

On one other note, I'm with you on the torture. The Abu Ghraib stuff - prosecute those responsible. But what Durbin described is certainly not torture, and certainly nothing even close to comparable of the Nazis, Soviet gulags, or Pol Pot.

Motorboat Cruiser · 06-18-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Very simple, and I've stated it over and over - an invasion of Iraq was completed justified and completely legal the first time Iraq violated the cease fire from Gulf War I.

Stated over and over again doesn't change the fact that your position is highly debateable. For one thing, violation of the cease-fire was not our stated reason for going there.

We were told that he posed a threat. In reality, there are many other nations who happen to pose far more of threat. The weapons weren't there and many people have come to the conclusion that Saddam was in fact complying. He was letting the weapons inspectors in and all indications were that there were no WMD's. I know you disagree but the facts aren't there to support your belief.

Of course, the real reason we went in was regime change, and according to international law, that is illegal.

06-17-2005, 11:03 AM	#1
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Dick Durbin I am surprised that no one has posted about this, so I will. I will provide links to specifics of his statements, but he compared the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo to what Nazis or Pol Pot would do. I find this disgusting and reprehensible. Apparently his words stem from an FBI report of a detainee chained to the floor. Sometimes temperatures in interrogation rooms were cooled to 60 degrees. Or heated over 100. They might be yelled at. They might not get water for a while. Would I want to be treated that way? No. But it is not comparable in any way to starvation or mass executions or death marches or or whatever. None of these things are against the Geneva convention. I hate to say that, because as ununiformed enemy combatants, the Geneva convention does not apply to them. They are fed religiously and culturally acceptable food. They are provided religious texts and prayer matts and quiet times for prayer. Trent Lott was stripped of his leadership position for praising Strom Thurmond. Should not Durbin receive some sort of penalty or censure for his comments? Should not John McCain come forward and explain to him what torture is in a prison camp that deserves comparison to the worst in history? Dick Durbin is a disgusting individual.
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06-17-2005, 11:41 AM	#2
Tref Not Tref Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,188	It is funny what disgusts some people. I have read that many prisoners have not even been charged with a crime, yet. And is it true they live in cages? That is what the newspapers report. What about those that have been beaten to death? Or, violated anally with chemical light sticks? Congress was shown photos of prisoners that had been mutilated. Many, many, more have died during interrogations. That must be some interrogation! What type of camp do you believe those guys would say they were in? If you answered, death camp, then you are correct! You mention that the prisoners are being fed. Well, I suppose that is very nice of us, indeed. Imagine that. We are feeding our prisoners. I think you may be mis-channeling your disgust. I dig where you are coming from, my brother, but you need to stay focused. Durbins words will pass -- that's hyperbole. The brutal torture of prisoners by Americans -- that's reality. __________________ Tref3.0 Listen in aural 3-D to Pop's muzak! (New songs added semi-bi-daily) j & j Did you know that Emas eht yltcaxe is exactly the same spelled backwards?! Last edited by Tref : 06-17-2005 at 11:49 AM. Reason: torture is torture is torture ...
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06-17-2005, 11:47 AM	#3
mousepod You broke your Ramadar! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,635	Yeah yeah yeah. There was a great bit on The Daily Show last night that used the Dick Durbin clip as a take-off point to show how Conservatives get crazy when Liberals use the Hitler reference and then how the Conservatives use the Hitler comparison too. As far as I'm concerned Durbin's an idiot. But so is Santorum. You can watch the clip right here __________________ "Give the public everything you can give them, keep the place as clean as you can keep it, keep it friendly" - Walt Disney
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06-17-2005, 05:30 PM	#7
SacTown Chronic the myth of the dream Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,217	Nevermind. __________________ Is it the fingers, or the brain that you're teaching a lesson? Last edited by SacTown Chronic : 06-17-2005 at 05:39 PM.
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