Imigration Reform

Ghoulish Delight · 05-16-2006, 09:04 AM

Okay, I know this is already being discussed in a myriad of threads, but I think it deserves a new one at this point because this is a momentous occasion...

I full agree with Bush. *shudder*

The man simply made sense last night. All-or-nothing arguments are inane. Finding something that works to the mutual advantage of immigrants and the US is, to my mind, clearly the best option. The only thing I don't think he included (I did kinda zone out at one point, so I may have missed it) is that they need to make the process of obtaining legal citizenship for current non-US residents (I'm not talking about people who are already here illegally, but those that are still in their home country trying to get in legally) easier. It has to be more attractive to come in legally than illegally. Until that happens, there will continue to be illegal immigrants, no matter how big of a wall you build.

Otherwise, guest worker program + stricter employer penalties + tighter border control + legal but sufficiently punitive path to citizenship = a good plan.

scaeagles · 05-16-2006, 09:14 AM

I didn't watch it yesterday. I haven't read transcripts. I guess I am going to have to at some point.

Gn2Dlnd · 05-16-2006, 09:21 AM

I did laugh when he said immigrants should learn English.
"Pot, this is Kettle calling. Is Mirror handy?"

And, of course, the obligatory spectre-raising of Terrarism. Ugh. So, if this is supposed to help us control the flow of illegal immigrants (terrarists, natch) from places other than Mexico, why was the entire focus on "our Southern border?" Last I heard, the Millenium Bomber came in through Canada.

Ghoulish Delight · 05-16-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd

I did laugh when he said immigrants should learn English.
"Pot, this is Kettle calling. Is Mirror handy?"

And, of course, the obligatory spectre-raising of Terrarism. Ugh. So, if this is supposed to help us control the flow of illegal immigrants (terrarists, natch) from places other than Mexico, why was the entire focus on "our Southern border?" Last I heard, the Millenium Bomber came in through Canada.

And the last I heard, they caught him.

85% of illegal immigration comes through our souther border. Seems to make sense that 85% of the focus is there.

BarTopDancer · 05-16-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd

I did laugh when he said immigrants should learn English.
"Pot, this is Kettle calling. Is Mirror handy?"

I don't get this comment. Immigrants should learn English. This is what we speak here. Bush may not be articulate and may pronounce some words incorrectly but he speaks English.

Gn2Dlnd · 05-16-2006, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

I don't get this comment.

I dislike George Bush and I like to mock him. I'm the mockerer.

CoasterMatt · 05-16-2006, 10:02 AM

I think instead of the National Guard, they should send Transit Cops - they don't let ANYBODY get by.

wendybeth · 05-16-2006, 10:12 AM

The Millenium bomber was caught only because he was an idiot. His nervous actions tipped off the border guard, otherwise he'd have got through np. (This was before 9/11, and the only things they were looking for back then were drugs). DIdn't some of the terrorists from 9/11 come down from Canada? I'd read that at least one of them were on the public dole up there.

scaeagles · 05-16-2006, 10:16 AM

I still don't understand why a fence is out of the realm of possiblity.

Saudi Arabia is in the process of building a high tech wall/fence along their extensive border with Iraq. The Saudis aren't really concerned with political correctness.

It is possible. In the grand scheme of the federal budget, it isn't even that expensive.

Go ahead and let the people who are here stay. Give a period of several months for them to register and get legal. Pay taxes. Pay fines. And stop the flow.

I find it amusing when I hear an argument that it can't be stopped (illegal border crossings) so we should just allow it. A high tech wall, while not impervious, sure as hell slows it down immensely.

From what I understand, the Saudi fence is (will be) 12 feet high made of material that is very difficult to cut with razor wire at the top. There is a 100 yard zone, with an identical fence on the other side. In the middle is a 10 yard wide trench going down 20 feet. There are motion detectors in the zone which activate security cameras at various nearby locations to alert border agent stations that people are trying to cross.

Sounds good (and effective) to me.

Ghoulish Delight · 05-16-2006, 10:22 AM

I don't find the wall/fence immoral...just completely pointless and a waste of time and money. These people risk their lives to cross a treacherous desert to get here. A wall or fence at the end ain't gonna make much of a difference.

As long as conditions are such that it's desireable to take the risk, people will find a way to defeat a wall or fence. It might stop a few people, but not enough to make a dent. Not when thousands are already survivng hellish desert conditions to do it. Only making legal immigration the more desireable option will stem the flow, and if you do that, the need for a wall or fence disappears. Waste of money.

05-16-2006, 09:04 AM	#1
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	Imigration Reform Okay, I know this is already being discussed in a myriad of threads, but I think it deserves a new one at this point because this is a momentous occasion... I full agree with Bush. shudder The man simply made sense last night. All-or-nothing arguments are inane. Finding something that works to the mutual advantage of immigrants and the US is, to my mind, clearly the best option. The only thing I don't think he included (I did kinda zone out at one point, so I may have missed it) is that they need to make the process of obtaining legal citizenship for current non-US residents (I'm not talking about people who are already here illegally, but those that are still in their home country trying to get in legally) easier. It has to be more attractive to come in legally than illegally. Until that happens, there will continue to be illegal immigrants, no matter how big of a wall you build. Otherwise, guest worker program + stricter employer penalties + tighter border control + legal but sufficiently punitive path to citizenship = a good plan. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
	Submit to Quotes

05-16-2006, 09:14 AM	#2
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I didn't watch it yesterday. I haven't read transcripts. I guess I am going to have to at some point.
	Submit to Quotes

05-16-2006, 09:21 AM	#3
Gn2Dlnd Parmmadore Jim Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Casita del Queso Posts: 3,810	I did laugh when he said immigrants should learn English. "Pot, this is Kettle calling. Is Mirror handy?" And, of course, the obligatory spectre-raising of Terrarism. Ugh. So, if this is supposed to help us control the flow of illegal immigrants (terrarists, natch) from places other than Mexico, why was the entire focus on "our Southern border?" Last I heard, the Millenium Bomber came in through Canada. __________________ Does anyone still wear a hat?
	Submit to Quotes

05-16-2006, 10:02 AM	#7
CoasterMatt BRAAAAAAAINS! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: One Step Beyond... Posts: 8,802	I think instead of the National Guard, they should send Transit Cops - they don't let ANYBODY get by. __________________ Do you like my photography? Visit photosbymatt.tumblr.com to purchase prints!
	Submit to Quotes

05-16-2006, 10:12 AM	#8
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	The Millenium bomber was caught only because he was an idiot. His nervous actions tipped off the border guard, otherwise he'd have got through np. (This was before 9/11, and the only things they were looking for back then were drugs). DIdn't some of the terrorists from 9/11 come down from Canada? I'd read that at least one of them were on the public dole up there. __________________
	Submit to Quotes

05-16-2006, 10:16 AM	#9
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I still don't understand why a fence is out of the realm of possiblity. Saudi Arabia is in the process of building a high tech wall/fence along their extensive border with Iraq. The Saudis aren't really concerned with political correctness. It is possible. In the grand scheme of the federal budget, it isn't even that expensive. Go ahead and let the people who are here stay. Give a period of several months for them to register and get legal. Pay taxes. Pay fines. And stop the flow. I find it amusing when I hear an argument that it can't be stopped (illegal border crossings) so we should just allow it. A high tech wall, while not impervious, sure as hell slows it down immensely. From what I understand, the Saudi fence is (will be) 12 feet high made of material that is very difficult to cut with razor wire at the top. There is a 100 yard zone, with an identical fence on the other side. In the middle is a 10 yard wide trench going down 20 feet. There are motion detectors in the zone which activate security cameras at various nearby locations to alert border agent stations that people are trying to cross. Sounds good (and effective) to me.
	Submit to Quotes

05-16-2006, 10:22 AM	#10
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	I don't find the wall/fence immoral...just completely pointless and a waste of time and money. These people risk their lives to cross a treacherous desert to get here. A wall or fence at the end ain't gonna make much of a difference. As long as conditions are such that it's desireable to take the risk, people will find a way to defeat a wall or fence. It might stop a few people, but not enough to make a dent. Not when thousands are already survivng hellish desert conditions to do it. Only making legal immigration the more desireable option will stem the flow, and if you do that, the need for a wall or fence disappears. Waste of money. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
	Submit to Quotes